Anything I can add to show building Inspector? (photo attached)
Rental Property Investor · South shore, MA · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
Anything I can add to show building Inspector? (photo attached)
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Jared W SmithBusiness Member
Architect · Westchester County, NY · Member since 2018 · 684 posts · 476 votes@Ben Sears has the basics down on an approach I’d also recommend however this forum is not the place for speculation. If you don’t know how to calculate the load on the LVL then you should get some help from an architect or engineer.
I’ve done this process in several homes and it’s the AOR/EOR ‘s liability on the certainty that the load will be held by a certain size beam, post/support combination.
By the way, I’ve not seen more than a 3-piece LVL utilized in this type scenario, therefore limiting to a 5.5 may not work.. but I ask you why you’re limiting yourself to this depth? The LVL doesn’t have to match the joist that are attaches to it. This is a pretty simple and straightforward thing for a pro to handle, however you being reluctant to hire an engineer (or architect) is making you spin your wheels with speculation and however much time you’ve been trying to figure this out. @Brian Ellis
Architect Owl PLLC521 Reviews
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You're going to need something to support the roof load when the wall is removed. Generally this is remedied by installing a header (either hidden or set below the level of the ceiling joists) which is supported on either end. My guess without putting eyes on it is that you will find the ends of the ceiling joists rest on top of the existing stud wall making it impossible to just knock the wall out without further support. While you have the columns in the basement, they are designed to carry the load from the roof down through the existing stud wall and into the foundation. The building inspector will likely need the specifications of the header.
I've found that small town building inspectors are more likely to make suggestions while larger municipalities require plans to be submitted for approval through the agency instead of the building inspector approving on site.
See this link that I just quickly googled. I'd be happy to answer any other questions you have.
https://www.familyhandyman.com/walls/how-to-install-a-loadbearing-beam/
- Rental Property Investor · South shore, MA · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes7y
Originally posted by @Ben Sears:
You're going to need something to support the roof load when the wall is removed. Generally this is remedied by installing a header (either hidden or set below the level of the ceiling joists) which is supported on either end. My guess without putting eyes on it is that you will find the ends of the ceiling joists rest on top of the existing stud wall making it impossible to just knock the wall out without further support. While you have the columns in the basement, they are designed to carry the load from the roof down through the existing stud wall and into the foundation. The building inspector will likely need the specifications of the header.
I've found that small town building inspectors are more likely to make suggestions while larger municipalities require plans to be submitted for approval through the agency instead of the building inspector approving on site.
See this link that I just quickly googled. I'd be happy to answer any other questions you have.
https://www.familyhandyman.com/walls/how-to-install-a-loadbearing-beam/
You are correct on the ceiling joists currently sitting on top of the existing wall. Would I need to put in a hidden LVL beam and post it on each end in order for this to work? Or can the cinderblock walls carry the majority of the weight?
@Brian Ellis you would probably have better luck supporting it with a stud wall instead of trying to incorporate it into the block wall as you already have studs sitting against the interior of the block. This would give you a small stub out from the wall (maybe 6") directly under your header. You are correct that you would need some type of structural column or wall on the other end. Your local building supply contractor could advise you on a product. This support would need to fall on top of the existing columns in the basement in order to properly transmit the weight. The LVL would be appropriate either hidden or exposed and framed in.
You would in end with something similar to this on your exterior wall. As you mentioned, the ceiling joists could also be cut and the LVL recessed however your LVL is likely taller than a 2x6 so this may be more work than what it's worth.
- Rental Property Investor · South shore, MA · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes7y
Originally posted by @Ben Sears:
@Brian Ellis you would probably have better luck supporting it with a stud wall instead of trying to incorporate it into the block wall as you already have studs sitting against the interior of the block. This would give you a small stub out from the wall (maybe 6") directly under your header. You are correct that you would need some type of structural column or wall on the other end. Your local building supply contractor could advise you on a product. This support would need to fall on top of the existing columns in the basement in order to properly transmit the weight. The LVL would be appropriate either hidden or exposed and framed in.
You would in end with something similar to this on your exterior wall. As you mentioned, the ceiling joists could also be cut and the LVL recessed however your LVL is likely taller than a 2x6 so this may be more work than what it's worth.
The LVL cant be bigger than the 2x6 ceiling joists? I know they have 5.5" LVLs, maybe I could triple up on them, and use hangers to attach the new ceiling joists too?
The size of your LVL is determined by the weight that it needs to support. Something outside of my knowledge unfortunately. If you talk to your local building supply contractor (not HD or Lowes) they should be able to provide you the engineering plans for the specific LVL. Then yes, you would attach your existing joists to the LVL with hangers.
- 7yJared W SmithBusiness MemberArchitect · Westchester County, NY · Member since 2018 · 684 posts · 476 votes
@Ben Sears has the basics down on an approach I’d also recommend however this forum is not the place for speculation. If you don’t know how to calculate the load on the LVL then you should get some help from an architect or engineer.
I’ve done this process in several homes and it’s the AOR/EOR ‘s liability on the certainty that the load will be held by a certain size beam, post/support combination.
By the way, I’ve not seen more than a 3-piece LVL utilized in this type scenario, therefore limiting to a 5.5 may not work.. but I ask you why you’re limiting yourself to this depth? The LVL doesn’t have to match the joist that are attaches to it. This is a pretty simple and straightforward thing for a pro to handle, however you being reluctant to hire an engineer (or architect) is making you spin your wheels with speculation and however much time you’ve been trying to figure this out. @Brian Ellis
Architect Owl PLLC521 Reviews - 7yJared W SmithBusiness MemberArchitect · Westchester County, NY · Member since 2018 · 684 posts · 476 votes
Originally posted by @Ben Sears:
The size of your LVL is determined by the weight that it needs to support. Something outside of my knowledge unfortunately. If you talk to your local building supply contractor (not HD or Lowes) they should be able to provide you the engineering plans for the specific LVL. Then yes, you would attach your existing joists to the LVL with hangers.
To do this he would need to understand tributary load areas, average material weights and then how to transfer the load down to footing/foundation.. AND be sure of it all.
Architect Owl PLLC521 Reviews @Jared W Smith thanks for the input on that. Obviously you’re way more versed on the design and load issues than I am. I agree it’s a pretty straightforward project but not one to tackle by yourself without some experience under your belt.
- Rental Property Investor · South shore, MA · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes7y
Originally posted by @Jared W Smith:
@Ben Sears has the basics down on an approach I’d also recommend however this forum is not the place for speculation. If you don’t know how to calculate the load on the LVL then you should get some help from an architect or engineer.
I’ve done this process in several homes and it’s the AOR/EOR ‘s liability on the certainty that the load will be held by a certain size beam, post/support combination.
By the way, I’ve not seen more than a 3-piece LVL utilized in this type scenario, therefore limiting to a 5.5 may not work.. but I ask you why you’re limiting yourself to this depth? The LVL doesn’t have to match the joist that are attaches to it. This is a pretty simple and straightforward thing for a pro to handle, however you being reluctant to hire an engineer (or architect) is making you spin your wheels with speculation and however much time you’ve been trying to figure this out. @Brian Ellis
One needs to learn at some point, right? I didn't think the depth of the LVL really mattered, but that was pointed out to me in a previous post.
Ive spoken with an engineer, and were talking 2k to have him come out and draw up plans for me. I cant afford that unfortunately.
If I build a truss system, what is the harm in having the load of the weight on either side of the block foundation?
- Rental Property Investor · South shore, MA · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes7y
Originally posted by @Jay M.:
Sister 2 x 10 rafters over that area or put a beam in the new raised ceiling. You would have to post down both ends so usually this requires a cut in the slab and a new footing (s) under columns.
What if I raise the ceiling, then use an LVL and post down on top of the two lally columns in the basement?
If that would work, do I still need to sister the rafters?
- 7yJared W SmithBusiness MemberArchitect · Westchester County, NY · Member since 2018 · 684 posts · 476 votes
Originally posted by @Brian Ellis:
Originally posted by @Jared W Smith:
@Ben Sears has the basics down on an approach I’d also recommend however this forum is not the place for speculation. If you don’t know how to calculate the load on the LVL then you should get some help from an architect or engineer.
I’ve done this process in several homes and it’s the AOR/EOR ‘s liability on the certainty that the load will be held by a certain size beam, post/support combination.
By the way, I’ve not seen more than a 3-piece LVL utilized in this type scenario, therefore limiting to a 5.5 may not work.. but I ask you why you’re limiting yourself to this depth? The LVL doesn’t have to match the joist that are attaches to it. This is a pretty simple and straightforward thing for a pro to handle, however you being reluctant to hire an engineer (or architect) is making you spin your wheels with speculation and however much time you’ve been trying to figure this out. @Brian Ellis
One needs to learn at some point, right? I didn't think the depth of the LVL really mattered, but that was pointed out to me in a previous post.
Ive spoken with an engineer, and were talking 2k to have him come out and draw up plans for me. I cant afford that unfortunately.
If I build a truss system, what is the harm in having the load of the weight on either side of the block foundation?
I know there are always budgetary concerns, yes, however there’s a difference of stabbing in the dark for a solution versus a calculated approach.
What if the the walls can’t support the truss system? Or the beam is undersized? I don’t know your market but $2k may be a little much but you get a certification that the resolution will work and if there is a failure and damages the property or injuries someone you’re not responsible as an unfamiliar laymen.
Tread lightly with recommendations. Maybe try another local engineer or architect.. that can look at the whole support system and recommend a solution.
Architect Owl PLLC521 Reviews What if I raise the ceiling, then use an LVL and post down on top of the two lally columns in the basement?
If that would work, do I still need to sister the rafters?
From your drawing the end of one side of the beam looks like it's over an outside wall so that should be okay if there is a footing under the block wall. It wouldn't shock me in MA if there is no footing under the wall in which case you'll need to account for load at both ends of beam. To know if the column / pad under (if there is a pad under and column isn't on slab alone) is sufficiently sized you'd have to dig up slab..... Unless you happened to have a plan from the building department showing it which if it's a block wall I'm certain they don't have it. If you use an LVL to carry the ceiling load then you won't have to upgrade the rafters for structural reasons but you will have to pad them down to get the insulation in unless you spray foam it which is very expensive.
- Flipper/Rehabber · Hamilton Township, NJ · Member since 2018 · 8 posts · 24 votes7y
@Brian Ellis
One does not learn how to calculate loads by trying things out on an existing structure. Get yourself an engineer or an architect, 2k for that does seem high so I would get other quotes. I don't know how any building department would accept drawings without a seal.
- Contractor · Mobile, AL · Member since 2019 · 47 posts · 32 votes7y
Taking out that wall will put the load of the entire roof system on the ridge. I am a builder and would pay an engineer 500.00 for his time too come out and calculate the size beam you need for the span you want. If you undersize the beam it may look great for a 6 months too a year. But then your gonna have sagging floors and cracked ceilings. Also at the beam ends you will need to carry the point loads down to the foundation. It’s money well spent. When in Doubt make it stout! I have seen this and repaired this many times over. I have seen roofs collapse from too much weight. A 5 pitch roof is non self supporting. If someone says it is they are lying too you. Hope this helps
- Rental Property Investor · South shore, MA · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes7y
Originally posted by @Mark Perea:
Taking out that wall will put the load of the entire roof system on the ridge. I am a builder and would pay an engineer 500.00 for his time too come out and calculate the size beam you need for the span you want. If you undersize the beam it may look great for a 6 months too a year. But then your gonna have sagging floors and cracked ceilings. Also at the beam ends you will need to carry the point loads down to the foundation. It’s money well spent. When in Doubt make it stout! I have seen this and repaired this many times over. I have seen roofs collapse from too much weight. A 5 pitch roof is non self supporting. If someone says it is they are lying too you. Hope this helps
Thank you, I will call around and see if I can find another engineer to come out cheaper. 2k seemed ridiculous!
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