Potential Red Flag and protecting the site from wolves

50 Replies

So I got a colleague request with the following message:

"Hi Ken!

I am a Cleveland investor living in Los Angeles who is trying to gauge interest with people about organizing a Socal/Cleveland investor meet up.

I am reaching out to a couple dozen people on the Bigger Pockets site who are currently investing and/or interested in the Cleveland Market. If there is enough interest I will schedule a date in the next month or two.

This will just be a casual networking type of thing. I have nothing to sell other than my Knowledge of the area growing up in the Cleveland and the experience of investing there from a long distance.

I think it could be enlightening to hear from other people in the same long distance investing situation and find out what has worked and what didn�t with their investments.

If you�re interested, let me know.

Cheers!"

The first slight (very slight) red flag was the line "I have nothing to sell" those kind of statements usually stand out to me. Nonetheless I thought it was a great idea and responded in kind with a question about where in Cleveland he grew up.

We sent a few messages back and forth and then in response to where I had bought he said, "let me guess, did you buy with Holton Wise?" I had researched his name and saw he was a cheerleader for them which is fine, but I thought I would test the water. I responded with "Yes for the first, but after that hell no." 

Next thing I know, he disappeared and possibly blocked me. 

I call these red flags because I cannot know for sure and I try to assume the best, but there is enough circumstantial evidence here to make me believe he is profiting through referrals and not be open it. Instead of inquiring why I said hell no, he simply cut and run. That just seems odd, unless you are trying to get a group together to specifically push them in a certain direction (even though you have nothing to sell). 

I know there are a lot of shady people in the business, and I hope we can protect Bigger Pockets and maintain a standard of ethical high ground, but I was wondering if there was a way to self police? I mean I do not want to see any lynching or false accusations, but what if we had a reporting feature where a team of volunteers or something could investigate? This site is a potential goldmine for those looking to take advantage and I would want to protect the members if possible. 

Then again we cannot protect everyone from everything and need to learn ourselves, but I am guessing there is some standard of behavior expected. 

Hi @Ken Virzi

There  IS a standard of behavior we expect. Solicitation is NOT allowed in the private message system. If you open up that message, there will be an option to Block Member or Report Abuse. Reporting it sends a note to our admins.

Thanks for asking.

Holton-Wise does not use outside marketers or have any affiliation with outside sales representatives or marketers of any kind. The only people whom are paid to sell our products & services are our Real Estate Agents. This entire post is completely slanderous to myself & my company.

Originally posted by @James Wise :

Holton-Wise does not use outside marketers or have any affiliation with outside sales representatives or marketers of any kind. The only people whom are paid to sell our products & services are our Real Estate Agents. This entire post is completely slanderous to myself & my company.

Just curious, did HW scrape email addresses from BP to add to your email blasts? 

I started getting email from your company out of nowhere, to the email address I used to register for BP (but rarely in other places) and there is also different thread where other people are talking about how they also started getting email from you out of nowhere.  

Also I'm not really seeing how that first post was "slanderous"  

So I couldn’t respond and there appeared to be no response but now there is a response and one says it’s from 23 hours ago. So good news is that it seems this was a glitch and my interpretation was wrong. I do think we need to make sure and help each other out though!

Originally posted by @James Wise :

Holton-Wise does not use outside marketers or have any affiliation with outside sales representatives or marketers of any kind. The only people whom are paid to sell our products & services are our Real Estate Agents. This entire post is completely slanderous to myself & my company.

I wrote "potential" for a reason. I used the word "circumstantial" for a reason, and left out the name on purpose. I also was very intentional about not being accusatory, but instead being cautious and asking in the event that this was in bad faith, what are the BP guidelines. I also chose to post in public so that anyone could chime in, my hope was that there was nothing shady going on, and it seems there is not. I am not sure how it was so offensive to you however, that is not my intention. In fact I even made sure to say I think it is fine for someone to be a cheerleader of your company (hardly slanderous).

Originally posted by @Ken Virzi :
Originally posted by @James Wise:

Holton-Wise does not use outside marketers or have any affiliation with outside sales representatives or marketers of any kind. The only people whom are paid to sell our products & services are our Real Estate Agents. This entire post is completely slanderous to myself & my company.

I wrote "potential" for a reason. I used the word "circumstantial" for a reason, and left out the name on purpose. I also was very intentional about not being accusatory, but instead being cautious and asking in the event that this was in bad faith, what are the BP guidelines. I also chose to post in public so that anyone could chime in, my hope was that there was nothing shady going on, and it seems there is not. I am not sure how it was so offensive to you however, that is not my intention. In fact I even made sure to say I think it is fine for someone to be a cheerleader of your company (hardly slanderous).

Sorry, but, by saying "hell no" in relation to continuing to buy from H-W (even if you were lying about even having any dealings with H-W for your own reasons) - you were being slanderous!

ie. You didn't make it absolutely clear to the readers of your post here that you had no actual beef with H-W. Or, if you do have a beef, H-W should have a proper chance to respond, here!

Get it?

I think there’s a huge difference between a “fan” and an “affiliate marketer”. I love hearing from “fans” here on BiggerPockets. It could be a fan of anything from a city to a property type to a property manager to a real estate agent to a particular type of flooring. I know I’ve talked about flooring brand preferences many times, it doesn’t mean I’m shilling for Allure Flooring 🤣

That said, I’d guess the win-win would have been to go to the meet-up. If the host was hustling/shilling for someone and being disingenuous in the messaging system you could inform the community. The “worst case” is you’d have actually met a bunch of locals that are doing what you’re doing.

But, I’d imagine the best bet would be replacing anything specific with, for example, “a well known turnkey company”. When you toss around actual people and company names with only suspicions things get really dicey.

For whatever it’s worth, I would imagine if you hit those Report Abuse buttons that these things will work themselves out pretty quick.

Originally posted by @Brent Coombs :
Originally posted by @Ken Virzi:
Originally posted by @James Wise:

Holton-Wise does not use outside marketers or have any affiliation with outside sales representatives or marketers of any kind. The only people whom are paid to sell our products & services are our Real Estate Agents. This entire post is completely slanderous to myself & my company.

I wrote "potential" for a reason. I used the word "circumstantial" for a reason, and left out the name on purpose. I also was very intentional about not being accusatory, but instead being cautious and asking in the event that this was in bad faith, what are the BP guidelines. I also chose to post in public so that anyone could chime in, my hope was that there was nothing shady going on, and it seems there is not. I am not sure how it was so offensive to you however, that is not my intention. In fact I even made sure to say I think it is fine for someone to be a cheerleader of your company (hardly slanderous).

Sorry, but, by saying "hell no" in relation to continuing to buy from H-W (even if you were lying about even having any dealings with H-W for your own reasons) - you were being slanderous!

ie. You didn't make it absolutely clear to the readers of your post here that you had no actual beef with H-W. Or, if you do have a beef, H-W should have a proper chance to respond, here!

Get it?

 Don't have a dog in this and don't want to start an argument, but "hell no" is an opinion not a fact. One can have an a less-than-stellar opinion about a party without veering into slander. 

P.S. Haven't bought anything from Holton-Wise and am positive they are a great company.

Originally posted by @Omar Khan :
Originally posted by @Brent Coombs:
Originally posted by @Ken Virzi:
Originally posted by @James Wise:

Holton-Wise does not use outside marketers or have any affiliation with outside sales representatives or marketers of any kind. The only people whom are paid to sell our products & services are our Real Estate Agents. This entire post is completely slanderous to myself & my company.

I wrote "potential" for a reason. I used the word "circumstantial" for a reason, and left out the name on purpose. I also was very intentional about not being accusatory, but instead being cautious and asking in the event that this was in bad faith, what are the BP guidelines. I also chose to post in public so that anyone could chime in, my hope was that there was nothing shady going on, and it seems there is not. I am not sure how it was so offensive to you however, that is not my intention. In fact I even made sure to say I think it is fine for someone to be a cheerleader of your company (hardly slanderous).

Sorry, but, by saying "hell no" in relation to continuing to buy from H-W (even if you were lying about even having any dealings with H-W for your own reasons) - you were being slanderous!

ie. You didn't make it absolutely clear to the readers of your post here that you had no actual beef with H-W. Or, if you do have a beef, H-W should have a proper chance to respond, here!

Get it?

 Don't have a dog in this and don't want to start an argument, but "hell no" is an opinion not a fact. One can have an a less-than-stellar opinion about a party without veering into slander. 

P.S. Haven't bought anything from Holton-Wise and am positive they are a great company.

Perhaps I (and James) should have used the word "defamatory" instead, defined as: 

  1. tends to lower the victim in the estimation of right-thinking member of society generally;
  2. tends to make them shun or avoid the victim;
  3. subjects the victim to public hatred, contempt or ridicule; or
  4. demeans the victim in his or her profession or business. [Source: CLIC].

Please don't suggest that "hell no" (in context) came across as anything other than malicious!

Originally posted by @Brent Coombs :
Originally posted by @Omar Khan:
Originally posted by @Brent Coombs:
Originally posted by @Ken Virzi:
Originally posted by @James Wise:

Holton-Wise does not use outside marketers or have any affiliation with outside sales representatives or marketers of any kind. The only people whom are paid to sell our products & services are our Real Estate Agents. This entire post is completely slanderous to myself & my company.

I wrote "potential" for a reason. I used the word "circumstantial" for a reason, and left out the name on purpose. I also was very intentional about not being accusatory, but instead being cautious and asking in the event that this was in bad faith, what are the BP guidelines. I also chose to post in public so that anyone could chime in, my hope was that there was nothing shady going on, and it seems there is not. I am not sure how it was so offensive to you however, that is not my intention. In fact I even made sure to say I think it is fine for someone to be a cheerleader of your company (hardly slanderous).

Sorry, but, by saying "hell no" in relation to continuing to buy from H-W (even if you were lying about even having any dealings with H-W for your own reasons) - you were being slanderous!

ie. You didn't make it absolutely clear to the readers of your post here that you had no actual beef with H-W. Or, if you do have a beef, H-W should have a proper chance to respond, here!

Get it?

 Don't have a dog in this and don't want to start an argument, but "hell no" is an opinion not a fact. One can have an a less-than-stellar opinion about a party without veering into slander. 

P.S. Haven't bought anything from Holton-Wise and am positive they are a great company.

Perhaps I (and James) should have used the word "defamatory" instead, defined as: 

  1. tends to lower the victim in the estimation of right-thinking member of society generally;
  2. tends to make them shun or avoid the victim;
  3. subjects the victim to public hatred, contempt or ridicule; or
  4. demeans the victim in his or her profession or business. [Source: CLIC].

Please don't suggest that "hell no" (in context) came across as anything other than malicious!

 Ok this is getting off track, but I do not think you are getting my point.

I wrote hell no to specifically test the waters in the message. I could be a huge HW fan and still have chosen to write that in this instance. If you read my posts on here I have said I am not opposed to doing business with HW again, but I have also been honest in my assessment regarding my experience. 

One of the things I have written about the way James Wise responds at times. He has every right to handle his business (a very successful one I might add) any way he wants. However, if I had someone feel strongly in a negative way about interactions with me as a business, the last thing I would do is accuse him of slander or being aggressive in any way. I prefer to deal with cooler heads and although this still will not prevent me from dealing with them in the future, it does leave a bad taste and can justifiably lead to a hell no from anyone. 

May I suggest customer service seeks to listen and understand the dissatisfaction or problem and then rectify it. Retaining customers is the goal when there are complaints. In my line of work if I came at every customer who came at me I would not last five minutes. 

Lastly, this post was not meant to be about HW, but unfortunately it got hijacked, and I take some responsibility as I should have communicated my "test" so to speak in different terms or more fully. For that I do apologize. 

During a close encounter with a wolf, people should do the following:

  • Stand tall and make themselves look larger.
  • Calmly but slowly back away and maintain eye contact.
  • If the wolf does not run away immediately, continue making yourself large, keeping eye contact, and backing away.
  • Do not turn your back on the wolf or run away.
Originally posted by @Nicky Reader :
Originally posted by @James Wise:

Holton-Wise does not use outside marketers or have any affiliation with outside sales representatives or marketers of any kind. The only people whom are paid to sell our products & services are our Real Estate Agents. This entire post is completely slanderous to myself & my company.

Just curious, did HW scrape email addresses from BP to add to your email blasts? 

I started getting email from your company out of nowhere, to the email address I used to register for BP (but rarely in other places) and there is also different thread where other people are talking about how they also started getting email from you out of nowhere.  

Also I'm not really seeing how that first post was "slanderous"  

I started getting spam on my business email after joining BP as well.  Gonna rethink the sig contents.

James Wise isn't even mentioned by name in that post and yet claims he has been personally slandered. smh

Originally posted by @Tom Gimer :
Originally posted by @Nicky Reader:
Originally posted by @James Wise:

Holton-Wise does not use outside marketers or have any affiliation with outside sales representatives or marketers of any kind. The only people whom are paid to sell our products & services are our Real Estate Agents. This entire post is completely slanderous to myself & my company.

Just curious, did HW scrape email addresses from BP to add to your email blasts? 

I started getting email from your company out of nowhere, to the email address I used to register for BP (but rarely in other places) and there is also different thread where other people are talking about how they also started getting email from you out of nowhere.  

Also I'm not really seeing how that first post was "slanderous"  

I started getting spam on my business email after joining BP as well.  Gonna rethink the sig contents.

James Wise isn't even mentioned by name in that post and yet claims he has been personally slandered. smh

It was clear that James was referring to his business (Holton-Wise), and James had every reason to query why the OP would write: ..."in response to where I had bought he said, "let me guess, did you buy with Holton Wise?" I had researched his name and saw he was a cheerleader for them which is fine, but I thought I would test the water. I responded with "Yes for the first, but after that hell no"" (but without any warning that he was going to slag off on H-W, even though he {vaguely?} implied he didn't mean it, which is why I "smh" with my first response).

Question: who does this site need protecting from, Ken Virzi's "colleague", or, Ken Virzi?...

Originally posted by @Brent Coombs :
Originally posted by @Tom Gimer:
Originally posted by @Nicky Reader:
Originally posted by @James Wise:

Holton-Wise does not use outside marketers or have any affiliation with outside sales representatives or marketers of any kind. The only people whom are paid to sell our products & services are our Real Estate Agents. This entire post is completely slanderous to myself & my company.

Just curious, did HW scrape email addresses from BP to add to your email blasts? 

I started getting email from your company out of nowhere, to the email address I used to register for BP (but rarely in other places) and there is also different thread where other people are talking about how they also started getting email from you out of nowhere.  

Also I'm not really seeing how that first post was "slanderous"  

I started getting spam on my business email after joining BP as well.  Gonna rethink the sig contents.

James Wise isn't even mentioned by name in that post and yet claims he has been personally slandered. smh

It was clear that James was referring to his business (Holton-Wise), and James had every reason to query why the OP would write: ..."in response to where I had bought he said, "let me guess, did you buy with Holton Wise?" I had researched his name and saw he was a cheerleader for them which is fine, but I thought I would test the water. I responded with "Yes for the first, but after that hell no"" (but without any warning that he was going to slag off on H-W, even though he {vaguely?} implied he didn't mean it, which is why I "smh" with my first response).

Question: who does this site need protecting from, Ken Virzi's "colleague", or, Ken Virzi?...

"completely slanderous to myself & my company" were the words used.

Where is James Wise mentioned? Does an owner of [insert company name here] have a cause of action when somebody says they won't buy from that company again?

More importantly... where is the false statement in any of this?

Originally posted by @Tom Gimer :
Originally posted by @Brent Coombs:
Originally posted by @Tom Gimer:
Originally posted by @Nicky Reader:
Originally posted by @James Wise:

Holton-Wise does not use outside marketers or have any affiliation with outside sales representatives or marketers of any kind. The only people whom are paid to sell our products & services are our Real Estate Agents. This entire post is completely slanderous to myself & my company.

Just curious, did HW scrape email addresses from BP to add to your email blasts? 

I started getting email from your company out of nowhere, to the email address I used to register for BP (but rarely in other places) and there is also different thread where other people are talking about how they also started getting email from you out of nowhere.  

Also I'm not really seeing how that first post was "slanderous"  

I started getting spam on my business email after joining BP as well.  Gonna rethink the sig contents.

James Wise isn't even mentioned by name in that post and yet claims he has been personally slandered. smh

It was clear that James was referring to his business (Holton-Wise), and James had every reason to query why the OP would write: ..."in response to where I had bought he said, "let me guess, did you buy with Holton Wise?" I had researched his name and saw he was a cheerleader for them which is fine, but I thought I would test the water. I responded with "Yes for the first, but after that hell no"" (but without any warning that he was going to slag off on H-W, even though he {vaguely?} implied he didn't mean it, which is why I "smh" with my first response).

Question: who does this site need protecting from, Ken Virzi's "colleague", or, Ken Virzi?...

"completely slanderous to myself & my company" were the words used.

Where is James Wise mentioned? Does an owner of [insert company name here] have a cause of action when somebody says they won't buy from that company again?

More importantly... where is the false statement in any of this?

 If your business (Holton-Gimer) was used similarly by the OP, wouldn't you take it personally?

[I already mentioned, a better word than "slanderous" could probably have been selected]...

Originally posted by @Brent Coombs :
Originally posted by @Tom Gimer:
Originally posted by @Brent Coombs:
Originally posted by @Tom Gimer:
Originally posted by @Nicky Reader:
Originally posted by @James Wise:

Holton-Wise does not use outside marketers or have any affiliation with outside sales representatives or marketers of any kind. The only people whom are paid to sell our products & services are our Real Estate Agents. This entire post is completely slanderous to myself & my company.

Just curious, did HW scrape email addresses from BP to add to your email blasts? 

I started getting email from your company out of nowhere, to the email address I used to register for BP (but rarely in other places) and there is also different thread where other people are talking about how they also started getting email from you out of nowhere.  

Also I'm not really seeing how that first post was "slanderous"  

I started getting spam on my business email after joining BP as well.  Gonna rethink the sig contents.

James Wise isn't even mentioned by name in that post and yet claims he has been personally slandered. smh

It was clear that James was referring to his business (Holton-Wise), and James had every reason to query why the OP would write: ..."in response to where I had bought he said, "let me guess, did you buy with Holton Wise?" I had researched his name and saw he was a cheerleader for them which is fine, but I thought I would test the water. I responded with "Yes for the first, but after that hell no"" (but without any warning that he was going to slag off on H-W, even though he {vaguely?} implied he didn't mean it, which is why I "smh" with my first response).

Question: who does this site need protecting from, Ken Virzi's "colleague", or, Ken Virzi?...

"completely slanderous to myself & my company" were the words used.

Where is James Wise mentioned? Does an owner of [insert company name here] have a cause of action when somebody says they won't buy from that company again?

More importantly... where is the false statement in any of this?

 If your business (Holton-Grimer) was used similarly by the OP, wouldn't you take it personally?

[I already mentioned, a better word than "slanderous" could probably have been selected]...

My name isn't Grimer but even if it were, "taking it personally" is not the basis for a legal claim.

Originally posted by @Tom Gimer :
Originally posted by @Brent Coombs:
Originally posted by @Tom Gimer:
Originally posted by @Brent Coombs:
Originally posted by @Tom Gimer:
Originally posted by @Nicky Reader:
Originally posted by @James Wise:

Holton-Wise does not use outside marketers or have any affiliation with outside sales representatives or marketers of any kind. The only people whom are paid to sell our products & services are our Real Estate Agents. This entire post is completely slanderous to myself & my company.

Just curious, did HW scrape email addresses from BP to add to your email blasts? 

I started getting email from your company out of nowhere, to the email address I used to register for BP (but rarely in other places) and there is also different thread where other people are talking about how they also started getting email from you out of nowhere.  

Also I'm not really seeing how that first post was "slanderous"  

I started getting spam on my business email after joining BP as well.  Gonna rethink the sig contents.

James Wise isn't even mentioned by name in that post and yet claims he has been personally slandered. smh

It was clear that James was referring to his business (Holton-Wise), and James had every reason to query why the OP would write: ..."in response to where I had bought he said, "let me guess, did you buy with Holton Wise?" I had researched his name and saw he was a cheerleader for them which is fine, but I thought I would test the water. I responded with "Yes for the first, but after that hell no"" (but without any warning that he was going to slag off on H-W, even though he {vaguely?} implied he didn't mean it, which is why I "smh" with my first response).

Question: who does this site need protecting from, Ken Virzi's "colleague", or, Ken Virzi?...

"completely slanderous to myself & my company" were the words used.

Where is James Wise mentioned? Does an owner of [insert company name here] have a cause of action when somebody says they won't buy from that company again?

More importantly... where is the false statement in any of this?

 If your business (Holton-Grimer) was used similarly by the OP, wouldn't you take it personally?

[I already mentioned, a better word than "slanderous" could probably have been selected]...

My name isn't Grimer but even if it were, "taking it personally" is not the basis for a legal claim.

Looks like you took my temporary spelling mistake - personally!

Your second point has been asked and answered. Cheers... 

To say this post was slanderous or defamatory to Holton Wise is a stretch. I didn't read it that way, because @Ken Virzi said in the post, he has never purchased from them. Since he never purchased from them, how would Ken even be a credible source to evaluate Holton Wise? I had no negative thoughts about HW until the owner chimed in with an over reaction.

Why did Holton Wise immediately jump into a mud fight implying some legal wrong doing? It leads me to believe they are sensitive to attacks - maybe it happens regularly? If that is they case, why? 

If that was my company, my question would be, "Why did you use Holton Wise as an example in a negative context?". For example if I owned a restaurant and someone said they disliked my food, I would ask them what they have tried and why they didn't like it. I wouldn't tell them they are slanderous. 

James and Brent did more damage to their business reputation in this thread than the OP. Hot head responses and quoting dictionary definitions is condescending to all of us. I hope you don't treat your customers like that and if you do, that could be why you were cited as the example here. Just food for thought.

Originally posted by @Tom Gimer :
Originally posted by @Nicky Reader:
Originally posted by @James Wise:

Holton-Wise does not use outside marketers or have any affiliation with outside sales representatives or marketers of any kind. The only people whom are paid to sell our products & services are our Real Estate Agents. This entire post is completely slanderous to myself & my company.

Just curious, did HW scrape email addresses from BP to add to your email blasts? 

I started getting email from your company out of nowhere, to the email address I used to register for BP (but rarely in other places) and there is also different thread where other people are talking about how they also started getting email from you out of nowhere.  

Also I'm not really seeing how that first post was "slanderous"  

I started getting spam on my business email after joining BP as well.  Gonna rethink the sig contents.

James Wise isn't even mentioned by name in that post and yet claims he has been personally slandered. smh

I took my email down from BP early on.. there are ways to contact folks through PM.. putting out your personal e mail creates too much spam.. from all over the place.. 

@Ken Virzi   7/8th of BP members are selling something to someone.. if you don't like it report it as abuse or ignore that's what I do..

Originally posted by @Nicky Reader :

Just curious, did HW scrape email addresses from BP to add to your email blasts? 

I started getting email from your company out of nowhere, to the email address I used to register for BP (but rarely in other places) and there is also different thread where other people are talking about how they also started getting email from you out of nowhere.  

Also I'm not really seeing how that first post was "slanderous"  

 I also get spam emails from them ever since I joined BP even though I have no idea what the company does or offers.

I’m not here to defend HW in the least they are big boys and can handle themselves.
But I have to say some of y’all are getting a little ambitious on the spam/conspiracy accusations.
If the random guy in Cali setting up a meet up and he seems shady - don’t go.
If he’s somehow a remote shill for HW it’s going to be obvious then flame all you want.
If you find yourself on an email list and want off - scroll to the bottom of the email and click the link to unsubscribe.
Personally I wouldn’t be happy seeing my business name in a post like that without something more factual to back it up.

Crud...I have to come up with something to sell.  I’m lagging behind 😫

Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs :

@Ken Virzi   7/8th of BP members are selling something to someone.. if you don't like it report it as abuse or ignore that's what I do..

Originally posted by @Michael Norris :

I’m not here to defend HW in the least they are big boys and can handle themselves.
But I have to say some of y’all are getting a little ambitious on the spam/conspiracy accusations.
If the random guy in Cali setting up a meet up and he seems shady - don’t go.
If he’s somehow a remote shill for HW it’s going to be obvious then flame all you want.
If you find yourself on an email list and want off - scroll to the bottom of the email and click the link to unsubscribe.
Personally I wouldn’t be happy seeing my business name in a post like that without something more factual to back it up.

There aren't any conspiracy theories. Unsolicited email (spam) from HW came to my email box that I used to register for this account.  I did not put my email address out there on a email sig or intentionally sign up for anything, so it was a bit more intentionally harvested.

Several other people seem to claim they had the same thing happen.  I asked HW a direct question above and there has been no denial AFAIK.  I wouldn't have actually even said anything except this is the 2nd time they've been called out for being a bit sketchy marketing-wise that I am aware of. 

I recognize that there is a sort of vibe in the real estate marketing world that spam is harmless and maybe even necessary to be competitive, but I am an OG techie and outside of the "wolfish" real estate sales world, spamming is usually seen as a slightly shady thing to do.  

I'm not mad or leveling any accusations about how HW does business once you sign on the dotted line. Spamming is worthy of a bit of scorn maybe, and if it stops, no big deal.  He seems like a quality contributor here otherwise so I would not vote him off the island. 

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