Please help! Looking at a Multi to buy, First Timer!

Please help! Looking at a Multi to buy, First Timer!

Investor · Littleton , CO · Member since 2014 · 30 posts · 10 votes

Ok so I have been on the site for awhile now and ready to dive in and get my feet wet.

I found a property that looks like it makes great sense what are your guy's thought.

The Property is in Indianapolis It's a Duplex one unit is 4 bed 2 bath the other 3 bed 1 bath

It just got nicely rehabbed including new roof about 6 years ago and could maybe use some carpet but that's really about it from what I can see.

It already has tenants in place for $675 and $650. One tenant is month to month the other is in a lease for another year but both want to stay.

The List price is 69k but I think I can get them down to 59k

The Monthly cost:

Total Rent for both units $1325

Debt Service @ 5% 30yr $237

Prop Mang $106

Taxes monthly $83

All Utilities paid but renters incl water and sewer.

Insurance give or take $65

What do you guys think?

Thank you!!!!

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Buffalo, NY · Member since 2014 · 371 posts · 146 votes
12y

The numbers look good to me. As you said, inspection will be key to make sure there is not a major issue. If you are bold, you can ask the tenants during the walk through if there "is anything they would change" about the house. Be friendly, and they will give you an honest answer. They are usually willing to tell you the truth because they want the "issues" fixed if there are any.

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  • Rental Property Investor · Fayetteville, NC · Member since 2014 · 884 posts · 670 votes
    12y

    @Petru Popovici - on the surface it looks to have very good cash flow. I would want to know why it is being sold at such a low price, especially if improvements were made recently. Are you sure that there isn’t deferred maintenance that is going to surface? Unexpected roof/HVAC replacement can be expensive. Are the tenants current? Do the sellers have rent rolls for the last two years? Are the units individually metered for utilities?

  • Investor · Littleton , CO · Member since 2014 · 30 posts · 10 votes
    12y

    I just started looking at it but will find out more within the next few days.
    I know the roof and A/C where done in 2006.
    The tenents are current but I will ask him for bankroll to prove that.And as far as them being individually metered i'm not sure but the renters pay there own utlities so I would assume they are. I will ask them that as well. I plan on getting a very extenive inspection and speaking to the property mangement company currently in place, but other then those things anything else I should ask or be aware off?

  • Investor · Littleton , CO · Member since 2014 · 30 posts · 10 votes
    12y

    Just spoke to the owner and the reason he is selling is that he has 2 properties and wants to sell them both to purchase a home for his family.
    He is going to provide me rent rolls asap
    I confirmed that there was a new heater/ac and roof put in in 2006
    And yes the propeties are individually metered

  • Jean BolgerPro Member
    Aurora, CO · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    12y

    Looks like it could be good one ! I don't live in Indy, and it doesn't look like you do either, so I would call several property managers and give them the address, ask their opinions about the neighborhood. It's probably fine, but I have read that there are some bad areas there; you don't want to be buying in a warzone and not know it. Probably not an issue, but it might be prudent to get a few opinions.

    Good luck!

  • Buffalo, NY · Member since 2014 · 371 posts · 146 votes
    12y

    The numbers look good to me. As you said, inspection will be key to make sure there is not a major issue. If you are bold, you can ask the tenants during the walk through if there "is anything they would change" about the house. Be friendly, and they will give you an honest answer. They are usually willing to tell you the truth because they want the "issues" fixed if there are any.

  • Investor · Littleton , CO · Member since 2014 · 30 posts · 10 votes
    12y

    That's great advice I was planing on speaking to them. Wanna make nice with them so they want to keep the home looking good.
    From what I hear the pwner said that the tenats have been there for years and are great and get along with each other great as well!

  • Rental Property Investor · Brookline, MA · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 777 votes
    12y

    @Petru Popovici

    Looks like a solid answer to me. If there are no major structural issues, you should make some good money with this place.

    Here is how the numbers look to me.

    With rents of $650 and $675 against the following expenses:

    Mortgage Rate 5.00%

    Length of Mortgage in years 30

    Monthly Mortgage payment $237.54

    Taxes $83.33

    Sewer and Water $100.00 (estimate)

    Trash $- (is this covered by city pickup?)

    Heat/Utilities $-

    HOA $-

    Cap Ex and Ops $150.00 (this is for new light bulbs and new roofs in the future)

    Insurance $65.00

    Mgmt Fee $132.50 (BP standard of 10%)

    Vacancy $106.00

    Total Expenses $874.38

    Total Revenue $1,325.00

    Cashflow/month $450.62

    Cashflow/year $5,407.48

    Cash on Cash Return 26.70%

  • Investor · Littleton , CO · Member since 2014 · 30 posts · 10 votes
    12y

    Looks about right. Water and Sewer is covered by the tenats so that's nice!
    Anyone know where I can get a loan that small?

  • Investor · Scotch Plains, NJ · Member since 2014 · 105 posts · 50 votes
    12y

    @Petru Popovici

    I agree with @Aaron Montague but would recommend you connect with some people on BP living in that market to give you some sense of the surrounding neighborhood.

  • Buffalo, NY · Member since 2014 · 371 posts · 146 votes
    12y

    Most any bank would do a conventional loan for that property with 25% down.

  • Investor · Littleton , CO · Member since 2014 · 30 posts · 10 votes
    12y

    For that low huh?
    I heard from a few lender that starting Jan the lowest they will really go is about 50k do to regulations..but ill call around
    Thank you!

  • SC · Member since 2014 · 10 posts · 3 votes
    12y

    @Petru Popovici just saw this post and I see you live in california I do as well. I want to invest in out state as well is way cheaper than california. If you dont mind me asking how did you find this property. I'm new to this whole thing trying to learn as much as I can. Any info would be helpful. Thanks.

  • East Helena, MT · Member since 2014 · 20 posts · 1 vote
    12y

    @Adine Mateo & @Petru Popovici

    Hi Fellow SoCal Residents!

    Thanks for asking that Adine... I was sitting here thinking the same thing and you jumped in and asked. Thank You. I'm clearly a newbie but chomping at the bit to get going. :-)

  • Real Estate Investor · Henderson, NV · Member since 2011 · 87 posts · 22 votes
    12y

    Petru, having owned duplexes in Indianapolis before my recommendation would be to get a SFR in better areas. My previous experience with Center township properties in the "downtown" has been very challenging. The numbers look good on paper but you will deal with maintenance, higher tenant turnover/vacancy rates, and crime. Whichever way you decide, good luck to you!

  • Investor · Littleton , CO · Member since 2014 · 30 posts · 10 votes
    12y

    Even if the place just got rehabbed a few years ago and the place already has tenants with leases in place?

  • Investor · Littleton , CO · Member since 2014 · 30 posts · 10 votes
    12y

    @RichardF. Which property mang company did you use?
    And did you like them?
    Thanks

  • Mike D'ArrigoPro Member
    Turn key provider · San Jose, CA · Member since 2010 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    12y

    @Petru Popovici I would advise against a duplex if you're a new investor. The numbers always look good on paper but I can tell you from plenty of experience, they rarely pan out. We offer turn key properties in Indianapolis so I know the market very well. We even offer some duplexes in very selective areas but I always steer first timers away from them. You can expect higher turn overs. The vacancy rate you're using is 8%. I can absolutely guarantee your vacancy rate is going to be more than 8% and could be significantly more than 8%. 8% is a fairly low projection on a SFR in Indianapolis and a duplex will have a higher rate than a SFR. Especially since 1 tenant is on a month to month. They can leave any day. Also, how is water paid by the tenants? It's very rare that a duplex is going to have separately metered water--gas and electric yes, but not water. You need to look in to that. Feel free to give me a call if you want to review the deal. If you want to PM me with the address I'll be happy to tell you what I think of the area.

    Best wishes,

    Mike

  • Investor · Littleton , CO · Member since 2014 · 30 posts · 10 votes
    12y

    Thank you everyone for all your feedback I am now officially scared to invest the Indy area lol

  • Residential Real Estate Broker · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2010 · 1k+ posts · 557 votes
    12y
    Originally posted by @Petru Popovici:
    Thank you everyone for all your feedback I am now officially scared to invest the Indy area lol

    Don't be afraid of Indianapolis as a whole, it's good to be leery of some rough areas just like any market.

    With those low rents, it sounds like an older [turn of the century] built double in Center Township - which IS a challenge even though it looks great on paper [ask me how I know!].

    I'd stick with a modest, post war, built ranch for starters and work from there. These can be picked up for under $55k with fresh rehab and occupied [turnkey] @ $750-$800 per month rent. I know these numbers don't look as sexy but there are "real world". These homes work and are easy to rent and/or sell anytime.

    Of course an amazing power team on the ground is very important as well.

    I hope that helps.

  • Real Estate Attorney, Broker, Investor · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2013 · 207 posts · 58 votes
    12y

    Petru,

    Indianapolis is a good market to investment in. However, I always suggest to my clients to begin slowly. Single family dwellings are are a good entry point into any market.

    If I can be of assistance, please feel free to contact me.

  • Ben G.Pro Member
    Investor · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2013 · 647 posts · 196 votes
    12y

    Do not be scared of Indianapolis. There are great properties and neighborhoods to invest in. Take the time to get to know someone on the ground. I would start by working with one of the guys above. @Shawn Holsapple and @Mike D'Arrigo know the Indianapolis market well.

    Yes, be careful of duplexes. People in Indianapolis prefer for the most part SFR and there are a ton of them available here. Indianapolis is different say from Connecticut or Baltimore where it's quite common for people to live in Multi family rentals. People have more options in Indianapolis and will always choose single family over a duplex when given the choice.

  • Property Manager · Santa Rosa, CA · Member since 2014 · 56 posts · 16 votes
    12y

    Petru,

    I am also from California and recently purchased a SFR in Indianapolis, I have only had it for a few months but if you need any help or advice about the process reach out and I would be more than happy to help.

  • Mike D'ArrigoPro Member
    Turn key provider · San Jose, CA · Member since 2010 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    12y

    @Petru Popovici

    "Even if the place just got rehabbed a few years ago and the place already has tenants with leases in place?"

    3 years is an eternity for a duplex. Tenants can destroy a place in 3 months let alone 3 years and often do with duplexes in Center township. It doesn't matter how nicely rehabbed it is, location is what is most important. A lot of people who know Indianapolis well like @Shawn Holsapple, @Richard F.

    and myself are waving warning flags. I hope you'll reach out and get more advice. As Shawn has pointed out, this is most likely an old turn of the century duplex in Center township. If so, my advice it to run not walk from it. You will regret it. That's not to say you can't do well with a duplex but just not in these areas but in general, I don't recommend duplexes for first time investors. What usually happens is they don't come close to delivering the returns they show on paper, have high vacancies and turn over cost and the inexperienced investor then gets disappointed and gives up on real estate investment.

    Feel free to call me if you want more insight.

    Mike

  • Investor · Littleton , CO · Member since 2014 · 30 posts · 10 votes
    12y

    Thank you so much for all of your insight, I'm gonna go back to the drawing board for a bit and will reach out to you guys very soon.

    Thanks again!! This site is great!

  • Rehabber · Fishers, IN · Member since 2014 · 17 posts · 1 vote
    12y

    @Petru Popovici you did a good thing to reach out to this community for advice and have inspired me to do the same when I finally find my first property. I'd recommend setting keyword alerts for 'indy' and 'indianapolis'. What you'll find after looking at posts on here is that it's one of the best, if not the best city for passive income right now.

    The concerns that Mike and Shawn are pointing out could apply in any area you buy - watch out for bad areas and try single family homes for your first property. So, don't be afraid of Indy.

    You've met a lot of good people to know here locally. Here's another guy: @Steve Lawson that helps a lot of out of state investors get Indy properties.

    Good luck!

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