Even the experienced get burned .

Even the experienced get burned .

Severna Park, MD · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes

A builder I know thought he got a smokin deal on 8 lots in an expensive area near me .  Its an old subdivision so he had to merge 8 lots into 4 . He paid $ 60 thousand for the lots . Which is a great price .  Now the road is on the plat , but not built and it is a private road . So he has to extend road 200 ft , no big deal . The new houses would sell for $ 475,000 .  He got waivers for being near wetlands , and a stream , has all the trees marked that stay . had everything staked out .   

BIG PROBLEM , the neighbor walks over to him and tells him again he cant build on the lots .  The builder tells the neighbor everything has passed the county , he is just waiting for final approval .   The neighbor tells him , " and it isnt going to happen , BECAUSE this is a private road , you only have egress to your property . BUT the county wont allow their utilities on a private road UNLESS the property owners on either side of the road  deed that portion to the county . And unfortunatly for you , I own the properties on both sides and I wont sign off ." And he had the request from the county in his hand . 

The builder says " I will sue you for an easement " 

The neighbor says , " i knew you would say that , here read these "   And handed him the last 2 suits that were filed by builders who bought the lots in the past ." I won the last 2 , save your money " 

The smokin deal turns into a big bust . When the lots were subdivided was in the early 1900's , it was well and septic at that time no one even thought of a utility easement for water and sewer closest utilities were 20 miles away at that time All there was was an road right of way . The neighbor loves his privacy , he doesnt have to buy the lots and pay the taxes , he controls them at no cost to him . 

1 minor oversight cost the builder the purchace price of $ 60 K , another $ 12 k in engineering  and the ongoing property taxes untill  the neighbor dies or can be persuaded to change his mind on the easement . 

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Dawn AnastasiPro Member
Rental Property Investor · Milwaukee, WI · Member since 2013 · 6k+ posts · 4k+ votes
10y

Until he can find the next sucker to buy them just like someone saw him as a sucker and thought he would get a "smokin' deal".

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  • Dawn AnastasiPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Milwaukee, WI · Member since 2013 · 6k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    10y

    Until he can find the next sucker to buy them just like someone saw him as a sucker and thought he would get a "smokin' deal".

  • Investor · Lafayette, IN · Member since 2015 · 3 posts · 2 votes
    10y
    Oops, it's always what you don't know, that you don't know, that gets you!
  • Investor · Rochester, NY · Member since 2016 · 477 posts · 426 votes
    10y

    @Matthew Paul I'm not familiar with your area at all: is there an area ordinance saying he can't sink wells and put in septic systems? How old is the neighbor that refused to sell? If the houses that would go on that land would be worth $475,000 now, why not just hang on to the land and wait for the other guy to sell? Heck, why not buy him out and just turn around and sell his house at a loss? Did he look into the other 2 suits and make sure he wasn't getting bluffed? Any way to turn it from a private to a public road out there? (I've seen that happen locally a couple of times.)

    I'm not disparaging your guy, and I don't think I know better than anyone else - those are just the questions I would have if I found myself in that situation, so I'm asking them in case I ever find myself there. 

  • Severna Park, MD · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    10y

    Lots wont perk . Ground is always wet . Wells , I dont know .  There is No way to turn it into a public road .  Maryland has a law that says the each property owner on the paper road owns up to the middle . Thats where the neighbors have to sign the road over to the county for the utilities to be installed . I know a civil engineer and he confirmed it . ( and he laughed because he was involved with that property in one of the law suits) 

  • Welder · Aberdeen, MD · Member since 2015 · 51 posts · 11 votes
    10y

    They sold because of the neighbor. lol-wow.

    I'd have to assume that the only way he's going to get those sold is to fork out the extra 15-20k per and get a well and septic put in, on each lot. That's the only way you're going to be able to have water that isn't on the public system.

  • Welder · Aberdeen, MD · Member since 2015 · 51 posts · 11 votes
    10y

    Oddly, if he frames those lots in with trees, there's going to be a bunch of people that might not mind the same privacy and a well/septic system. Could also put in one or two parcels, a god-send of a well and septic, water softener, and a larger house ... Might make 2x 300k houses vs 4x 120k houses.

  • Severna Park, MD · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Dan Waugh:

    Oddly, if he frames those lots in with trees, there's going to be a bunch of people that might not mind the same privacy and a well/septic system. Could also put in one or two parcels, a god-send of a well and septic, water softener, and a larger house ... Might make 2x 300k houses vs 4x 120k houses.

     There are no $ 120 K houses in Severna Park Md ( there rarely lots at that price) , and new construction in severna park starts at $500 K .  Septic systems arent an option , most of the lots are in a flood plain . Waivers were granted if it was water and sewer .  There is a good reason these lots wernt built out years ago .  

  • Rental Property Investor · La Quinta, CA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 779 votes
    10y

          Will they work with an alt septic system?  I know they are insanely expensive, but a septic system that is effectively a waste treatment plant can function in almost any soil.  Given the margins of the project, might be worth a look.

  • Severna Park, MD · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    10y

    I was just at the civil engineers house having a few and we were talking about it .  The only option the builder has is to make it worth the neighbors wild .  

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    10y

    @Matthew Paul  engineer should have caught this.. if this has been tried twice before then there is probably a file on the last two developers who tried it and the county would have a file perhaps

    Also... a title report would have shown the ingress egress and no description for utls.. I know most would gloss over it but its for this exact reason when your buying development dirt you thoruoughly go through the legal descriptions and the write aways and the utls easements ... Rookie mistake..

    and probably thought he got the screaming deal fo the century when in fact he got suckered in to buying this.

  • Severna Park, MD · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    10y

    Education comes in many ways . And it costs just about every time

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    10y

    @Matthew Paul  YUP I had a option on a 110 acre in PDX for 5.5 mil.. we got voted into the urban reserve ( in 10 years its a 40 million dollar property) 1000 Friends of Oregon sues reverses the decision state goes into emergency session and draws the line right around our property.. POOF we were out.. talk about bummed out... my partner also was buying me out as we had a cool milsky in this and half was mine he bought me out and then this happens OUCH.. not sure what he is going to do.. I am not happy as I had a trailing ownership even though I got my cash out.. It was small only 5% but I had another 400k coming that is now lost.. but all is OK I just made a big play and got no return on my money for 8 years.. but hey it happens.

  • Rental Property Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2014 · 132 posts · 74 votes
    10y

    Is there any other possible use for this land or does it strictly have to be residential single family? Not quite sure what uses there could be that wouldn't need any water/sewer but just throwing it out there for some thoughts. . Maybe build a couple private tennis courts, a rentable pavilion, spaces for people to rent and park a tiny home? Plant a bunch of pine trees and sell xmas trees? There has to be some way to generate some money here. Someone out there has to have a crazy idea that could work. 

  • Real Estate Investor · Lincoln, NE · Member since 2013 · 584 posts · 353 votes
    10y

    Renegotiate with the neighbor.  Tell him that without the easement, you will turn the property into a junk yard and plant multiple school buses, nose down in the dirt to "decorate" your property.  Better yet, start a small cattle feeding operation on the land.  The smell of a feed yard may make him reconsider....

  • JD MartinBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
    10y

    What about electricity? Is there no electricity to the property? 

    Major screw-up by the developer for not doing due diligence and ensuring utilities could serve the property. On the flip side of that, I would probably call the neighbor's bluff on the suit if I couldn't work something out otherwise. I doubt he has 2 suits in hand that were appealed as far as could be appealed. A good lawyer would make this work out; it doesn't likely sound legal that property owners could deny another owner reasonable use of the property, and I think most courts would agree that utilizing some administrative loop to deny someone utilities would be denying reasonable use of the property. If that wouldn't work, I would explore with my local representative having the law changed. 

    If all else failed, I would see what the setbacks were regarding shooting ranges and turn the property into a full-time shooting range. Then the neighboring owner might prefer houses instead of gunfire. 

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  • Attorney · Santa Cruz, CA · Member since 2015 · 345 posts · 358 votes
    10y

    Alternative uses that might help persuade the neighbor: dog rescue facility, or another animal rescue facility, storage, parking...

    In Marin County, California, when the rich neighbors complained about a housing development George Lucas (Star Wars producer) wanted to build, he built low-income housing instead.

  • Welder · Aberdeen, MD · Member since 2015 · 51 posts · 11 votes
    10y

     I've not deal with that area. Just divided the number you have. 

    That's all completely nuts to me. Sorry about your friend. I can only hope I don't have something similar

  • Attorney · Santa Cruz, CA · Member since 2015 · 345 posts · 358 votes
    10y

    Also, not sure how this works in Maryland, but in California a seller must disclose that sort of problem to the buyer. And if the seller doesnt disclose the buyer has legal remedy against the seller for return of the sales price and other damages (all the other money spent to discover the problem).

  • Russell BrazilBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Agent · Washington, D.C. · Member since 2012 · 17k+ posts · 30k+ votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Jenifer Levini:

    Also, not sure how this works in Maryland, but in California a seller must disclose that sort of problem to the buyer. And if the seller doesnt disclose the buyer has legal remedy against the seller for return of the sales price and other damages (all the other money spent to discover the problem).

    I don't think in Maryland that this would need to be disclosed. I'm sure the seller made no representation as to the buildability of the lots. There is no latent defect that was hidden...it was the buyer making an assumption. Sellers in MD can't be held liable because the buyer made a faulty assumption 

  • Severna Park, MD · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Wade Sikkink:

    Renegotiate with the neighbor.  Tell him that without the easement, you will turn the property into a junk yard and plant multiple school buses, nose down in the dirt to "decorate" your property.  Better yet, start a small cattle feeding operation on the land.  The smell of a feed yard may make him reconsider....

     that wouldnt bother the neighbor he already has plenty of junk 

  • Real Estate Agent · Odenton, MD · Member since 2016 · 35 posts · 5 votes
    10y

    @Michael Paul

    Oh no.  I read your post when you first posted, and been thinking. (Probably  since I grew up near Severna Park).  

    I guess if something seems too good, it is...By the way, do you know what the zoning is?  Maybe look into acceptable alternative uses...

    Severna Park is very elite neighborhood with blue ribbon schools and building would be an awesome opportunity.  Sorry your friend is stuck with a lemon, there's gotta be a way to make lemonade out of this. 

    Please keep us posted as what your friend ends up doing...

  • Severna Park, MD · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    10y

    Severna Park is full of the poorest rich people you will ever meet .  70 % are house poor , they wanted the good schools . but paid   Over what they can afford comfortably . 

  • Appraiser · Pasadena, MD · Member since 2016 · 8 posts · 4 votes
    10y

    interesting case. sabrina park? carrollton manor?

    We have three lots in sabrina park we are working on right now...

    Who is the builder?

  • Severna Park, MD · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    10y

    His first name is Jeff .      Its over by round bay .       I saw lots getting cleared , whats his name , the guy with the red ford that bought ebersbergers dump years ago is digging the holes 

  • Appraiser · Pasadena, MD · Member since 2016 · 8 posts · 4 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Matthew Paul:

    His first name is Jeff .      Its over by round bay .       I saw lots getting cleared , whats his name , the guy with the red ford that bought ebersbergers dump years ago is digging the holes 

     jefton homes?

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