Selling Agent Delaying Buy

Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2017 · 10 posts · 0 votes

I'm currently in the middle of attempting to buy a property. The property was priced right and I wanted to lock in the sale so I made a full price , all cash offer with a short response time. No response within time. The selling agent has been delaying and stalling - after four days selling agent requested that I present "Best and Highest Offer" I once again offered full price, all cash offer - still no answer. I know I'm being used to try and get a higher bidder. But these stall tactics seem unethical and maybe worse. I do want the property and someone else will eventually come along and offer more so I don't want to play games like submitting a lower offer than before. Is there anything I can do now? and when this is over should a complaint be filed against this realtor ? and would that complaint be valid?

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Kiersten Vance

Real Estate Agent · Redlands, CA · Member since 2016 · 253 posts · 115 votes

Hi David. Do you have an agent representing you? Typically the "selling agent" represents the buyer and the "listing agent" represents the seller. When you say selling agent, I assume you mean the listing agent is stalling and waiting for a better offer. Has your agent given you comps on the property? Have they spoken with the listing agent to ask whats going on? You may need to submit a higher offer to get it accepted. The listing agent and seller do not have to accept your offer or counter it, even if you think it is a really good one. I was in several of these situations with my clients and the sellers asked for highest and best even after we submitted full price. It's frustrating, but it is within their rights. Best of luck!

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Franklin Romine
Visalia-Fresno, CA · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 863 votes
9y
Is the selling agent representing you? Keep hounding them for a response. Frsnk
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Jeff Hite
Real Estate Agent · Canton, OH · Member since 2017 · 25 posts · 7 votes
9y
How long has it been on the market? It may be the seller who is instructing the agent to sit pat. Sometimes for newer homes on the market, a tactic they will use is just staying silent and trying to get you to balk to find out how badly you really want the property.
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Russell BrazilBusiness Member
Moderator
Real Estate Agent · Washington, D.C. · Member since 2012 · 17k+ posts · 30k+ votes
9y
You seem to be unaware that the listing agent represents the seller and not you.
Don't be surprised if you file unwarranted complaints against someone if they go out of their way to do something equally bad back to you.
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Patrick Squires
Investor · Oxford, MI · Member since 2016 · 110 posts · 41 votes
9y
Answer can only be one thing - they expect more and can likely get more as you said. They apparently feel comfortable letting your offer expire risk wise. I have been seeing many houses here sell for more than the list price - a few that were on the market for months still sold for more than list. Many times its a selling strategy and other times its a nice surprise for the seller.
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David Allen
OP
Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2017 · 10 posts · 0 votes
9y
Obviously the Selling Agent does not Represent me - They represent the Seller but there are Ethics Clauses in the NAR that state an agent must be honest with all parties including the other side. I don't feel it is honest to post something for sale for a price and then not sell it. If they wanted more then they should list it for more. What I would really like to do is to resubmit a lower offer like I originally wanted instead of the full price I stated. But that would only delay things that much more. All I can do is be persistent. But what I would like to know from you folks is after all this is said and done - do I have any ground to file a complaint with the California Board of Realtors for this agent not responding to an offer good and valid offer? As I feel this is dishonest.
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Jeff Hite
Real Estate Agent · Canton, OH · Member since 2017 · 25 posts · 7 votes
9y
Originally posted by @David Allen:
Obviously the Selling Agent does not Represent me - They represent the Seller but there are Ethics Clauses in the NAR that state an agent must be honest with all parties including the other side. I don't feel it is honest to post something for sale for a price and then not sell it. If they wanted more then they should list it for more. What I would really like to do is to resubmit a lower offer like I originally wanted instead of the full price I stated. But that would only delay things that much more. All I can do is be persistent. But what I would like to know from you folks is after all this is said and done - do I have any ground to file a complaint with the California Board of Realtors for this agent not responding to an offer good and valid offer? As I feel this is dishonest.
You can file a complaint but it won't go very far as it's not really dishonest. It's not that they are lying to you. You could be in a multiple offer situation and they may be negotiating with another party. Letting an offer expire is no different than a rejection.
Did you have any conditions or contingencies that are out of the ordinary?
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Daniel O.
Investor · Takoma Park, MD · Member since 2016 · 166 posts · 147 votes
9y
We often see properties listed for far below than what we know they will sell for. It is a strategy that sellers use to get people interested. Depending on the location and the type of property, we don't even bother putting in an offer unless we are willing to go much higher than asking price. This may be what is happening here, as it is pretty typical to see the place be on the market for a week or two (seldom longer in a hot market), then anyone who has offered is asked for best and final. Remember, the seller can sell to whomever they choose, even if it isn't the highest offer.
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Kiersten Vance
Real Estate Agent · Redlands, CA · Member since 2016 · 253 posts · 115 votes
9y
Hi David. Do you have an agent representing you? Typically the "selling agent" represents the buyer and the "listing agent" represents the seller. When you say selling agent, I assume you mean the listing agent is stalling and waiting for a better offer. Has your agent given you comps on the property? Have they spoken with the listing agent to ask whats going on? You may need to submit a higher offer to get it accepted. The listing agent and seller do not have to accept your offer or counter it, even if you think it is a really good one. I was in several of these situations with my clients and the sellers asked for highest and best even after we submitted full price. It's frustrating, but it is within their rights. Best of luck!
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David Allen
OP
Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2017 · 10 posts · 0 votes
9y
Well all I can say is Real Estate and those that sell it are a lower form of life that practice in this manner then from the responses I read that say it isn't unethical - Yes it may be common practice but I do not believe it is ethical or even honest - Honesty isn't just lying but it is a manner of representing a property and what you want for it - If your intention is to delay an answer in order to get more bidders that is not honest - if I listed a car for sale for $XX and someone offered me cash at that value I would feel obligated to sell it. Not hold them in limbo and collect other interested parties and then attempt to barter up the price. This is not the Sellers doing it is the Listing Agents tactic. And it isn't right. For the retail market there are State laws against such practices.
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Natalie Schanne
Real Estate Agent · Princeton, NJ · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
9y
David Allen - let's say your mother asked you to sell her car for her. You post it for sale. You get 5 offers at full price within 24 hours. Some bidders start to offer you more. Is it unethical for you to wait a few days to see what the true market value is of your mother's asset (car) and to find the highest and best offer? (No, because you're working for your mother's best interests - fiduciary duty.) Or, by your logic, are you obligated to the first person who offered you your asking price?
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Steve Vaughan
Rental Property Investor · East Wenatchee, WA · Member since 2014 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
9y
I don't like these games either, @David Allen.
A decent person would have at least got back to you. "Thank you for your full-price, cash offer. Unfortunately there are other offers we are considering as well..." Or whatever. That's just being a decent person. That apparently doesn't apply anymore.
If the LA didn't present your written offer to the seller, you could have a legal/ethical complaint, but just being an indifferent turd is legal.
I think this is the 3rd thread I've seen this morning about folks with full price all cash MLS offers being ignored or rejected. May be a blessing in disguise. I am an investor and do not sink all of my cash into an over-priced, emotionally-driven 'investment.' Sell when others are buying. Buy when others are selling.
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Russell BrazilBusiness Member
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Real Estate Agent · Washington, D.C. · Member since 2012 · 17k+ posts · 30k+ votes
9y
Would someone selling something on Ebay who lists it at a $1 and who chooses not to sell if it hasn't met their reserve price be unethical as well?
This is just an example of the very basic business concepts of pricing strategy and consumer psychology.
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David Allen
OP
Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2017 · 10 posts · 0 votes
9y
OK Well the listing price is the reserve price. If you think it's worth more then be honest and list it for more. That's the agents duty and skill. Most Agents IMHO advise their clients in pricing at a low price to sell quick and minimize their time. As opposed to trying to get the most for the property honestly by listing it higher. The little bit more that she could get for it with these tactics 5 or 10k which here is 1 or 2% could cost them my offer completely and it could have been listed that much more in the first place. And yes if they received multiple full price offers that would be fine. 1. My offer did not get a response 2. There was no mention of competing offers - if there were it would have been to her benefit to say so. At least she didn't Lie about that.
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Kiersten Vance
Real Estate Agent · Redlands, CA · Member since 2016 · 253 posts · 115 votes
9y
@David Allen - How did you make your offer? You said multiple times you didn't even get a response, but did you submit it through an agent on a CAR form or did you submit a different way? Also did you give POF? Maybe the agent just isn't taking your offer seriously.
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David Allen
OP
Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2017 · 10 posts · 0 votes
9y
@Natalie Vane They don't have those other offers. I expect listing agents to be far more knowledgeable and skilled in their market and pricing to be able to accurately price a property - heck if i can after watching the local market for 6 months they should - I asked a well known agency for a price evaluation they gave me a 2 inch thick binder and stated X amount - I said nope it's worth more and went with a discount broker and sold it for 25k more. I looked at her recent sells and they all sold within 10 days. The chances of finding the highest buyer in 10 days for an exclusive property is slim to none. It is far to easy for a non-professional to get a license and a Name brand broker doesn't mean all that much.
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David Allen
OP
Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2017 · 10 posts · 0 votes
9y
@Kiersten Vance Yes submitted through an experienced licensed broker on CAR - and POF . They know it's real just fishing for more I'm sure. Just think it's wrong.
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Chris MasonPro Member
Moderator
Lender · CA · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 10k+ votes
9y
Listing prices hold absolutely face zero value in hot California markets. It's just a number used to loop in retail buyers using search criteria on redfin/zillow/etc (so you list it at $749,999 when you want $850k in order to catch the people searching zillow for "up to $750k").
Best practice is to disregard face values of list prices entirely. Run your own comps, and/or have your agent do a CMA. Offer based on that - sometimes that means you offer over list price, sometimes it means you offer under, but remember we've already disregarded the list price as irrelevant, so that doesn't matter.
I've seen top 10% buyer's agents run a CMA on the listing agent, to figure out if they normally list for 10% under value, 25% under value, or maybe only 5% under value, and track normal days from listing to pending for that agent. That has value, because it lets you see past the fake list price to the real list price, and lets you know the listing agent's M.O. (ie, the "strategy" that the listing agent probably sold to the seller to get them to sign the listing agreement).
Yes, this is unfortunate. I don't like it. But it is what it is. With sellers and listing agents playing these games, however, it does make it more important to have good folks on your side as the buyer.
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David Allen
OP
Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2017 · 10 posts · 0 votes
9y
@Chris Mason Thank you --- I understand but don't totally go for the absolutely no value as I've never heard and doubt that an agent would say I'm going to list it 100k lower than what you want. Most sellers (the owners) are pretty happy to get list price. But I get your point and everything else you say makes so much sense. Good Job. Still filing something with CBR just because of the circumstances. If nothing else will make me feel good.
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Russell BrazilBusiness Member
Moderator
Real Estate Agent · Washington, D.C. · Member since 2012 · 17k+ posts · 30k+ votes
9y
Originally posted by @David Allen:

@Chris Mason Thank you --- I understand but don't totally go for the absolutely no value as I've never heard and doubt that an agent would say I'm going to list it 100k lower than what you want. Most sellers (the owners) are pretty happy to get list price. But I get your point and everything else you say makes so much sense. Good Job. Still filing something with CBR just because of the circumstances. If nothing else will make me feel good.
You might want to discuss with your broker before doing that. Some people are vengeful. He might find many ways to make your life difficult. Filing complaints against you at your job, bringing frivolous law suits. I've seen it happen plenty of times.
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Chris MasonPro Member
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Lender · CA · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 10k+ votes
9y
Originally posted by @David Allen:
@Chris Mason Thank you --- I understand but don't totally go for the absolutely no value as I've never heard and doubt that an agent would say I'm going to list it 100k lower than what you want.
I've had conversations that go like this...
Listing agent: "OMG I can't believe it appraised for $900k when the contract says $950k, this place should be at least $975k no question."
Me: "OK. It says here you listed it for $850k. You know the appraiser can see that, right?"
LA: "Yeah but I had to sell my client on the bidding war to get her to sign the listing agreement to get the listing. It's the pitch I always give."
Me: "OK, but when you tell the appraiser you think it's an $850k house by listing it there, how can you then come back and say the appraiser is under-valuing the property when they came in $50k over your list price, at $900k, knowing that appraisers specifically appraise to a definition of market value that precludes bidding wars, given that it's clear from publicly available data that the $950k price is only achievable exactly by way of bidding war and no other way? Do you see where the appraiser might be coming from on this one?"
LA: "..."
(I'm not actually THAT eloquent, but you get the idea)
At lower price points you might not see a full $100k swing, so it might be $50k or $25k, but you still see it.
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David Allen
OP
Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2017 · 10 posts · 0 votes
9y
@Chris Mason That is a bizarre conversation - and just confirms my belief that alot (not all) agents are a half step better than Used car salesman. I can't imagine a owner buying into the "bidding war" tactic. I would think most of the time agents are either agreeing to a high list price cause that's what the clients wanted so they agreed to get the listing or they talk the owner down so it sells faster cause the difference in dollars on their commision is insignificant. What do you think of sending a complaint to the CBR? I think you'll say that's jsut the way it is. But to totally ignore my offer - are they honestly serving their client?? Then delay and then ignore again?? They haven't said they have any other offers and I'm sure this lady would to try and get me to offer more. My agent says this agent is unreal and not what he usually comes across - and can't wait to put her out of business by outworking her.
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Russell BrazilBusiness Member
Moderator
Real Estate Agent · Washington, D.C. · Member since 2012 · 17k+ posts · 30k+ votes
9y
"Me: "OK. It says here you listed it for $850k. You know the appraiser can see that, right?""
The easy solution to this problem, at least in my MLS system is after the property goes under contract, we change the list price. The appraiser's in our area only see the current information and not historical information.
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David Allen
OP
Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2017 · 10 posts · 0 votes
9y
@Russell Brazil Hard for me to see much in the way of repercussions from filing a complaint - 1. I would think but I will check that your identity is somewhat protected by the board. to mitigate that problem. 2. I'm retired from my occupation and currently day trade for spending money. My wife still works a temporary job but since we are all cash they would have little information on our personals. and she isn't even on any social media not even Linkedin. 3. Hardly see that a lawsuit could be issued for filing what I believe a valid complaint with a board who can choose to throw it out if they deem it to be without any merit. any comments?
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Russell BrazilBusiness Member
Moderator
Real Estate Agent · Washington, D.C. · Member since 2012 · 17k+ posts · 30k+ votes
9y
Originally posted by @David Allen:

@Russell Brazil Hard for me to see much in the way of repercussions from filing a complaint - 1. I would think but I will check that your identity is somewhat protected by the board. to mitigate that problem. 2. I'm retired from my occupation and currently day trade for spending money. My wife still works a temporary job but since we are all cash they would have little information on our personals. and she isn't even on any social media not even Linkedin. 3. Hardly see that a lawsuit could be issued for filing what I believe a valid complaint with a board who can choose to throw it out if they deem it to be without any merit. any comments?
I'm just saying most agents if a complaint is filed against them, even if frivelous...will be out the deductible on their e & o insurance, which for most of them is $5,000. So if you cost someone $5,000 for something they think is frivelous....and they know who did it....and if the commission finds the complaint isn't just frivelous, they will know you did file the complaint as they will receive a copy of the complaint and need to go defend themselves...and you will need to testify against them. So don't under estimate how vengeful people can be. If they are, they may not just let it go and will want to inflict the same kind of damage on your life that you did to theirs. I've seen things like this his play out several times. They sue you, and even if frivolous it's time and money in court. They report you for any kind of housing violation or building violation.
Some people will just blow it off, but don't under estimate someone's thirst to get even if you cost them $5k.
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David Allen
OP
Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2017 · 10 posts · 0 votes
9y
@Russell Brazil Thanks for the advice - I'd like to charge her for the stress she's giving me and with her delay games even if it goes through we will now have to rent a month which will also incur extra moving charges so there will be a monetary loss on my end at least 3k for her actions in this matter thus far.
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