Most Millennials regret buying a home

Most Millennials regret buying a home

Member since 2018 · 29 posts · 6 votes

One of biggest issues I’ve personally had with Real Estate in general is the very large up front costs, arduous process and illiquidity involved in it. So many R.E. Owners and agents constantly say this property is worth X amount for instance. That’s only if you can find a buyer for that price and it closes. Stocks give an instant guaranteed price and you have your money instantly. No closing involved. 

I recently finally bought a Condo but I waited 5 years which based on my research was the right move. Instead of buying while all our other friends went R.E. Nuts telling us, “Renting is a waste of money”. I took the difference between what we paid in rent versus buying and invested in the stock market. That allowed me to have far greater market returns then a index fund or any real estate i could have bought. We are talking about 85% on average on a compunded basis between investing and trading even with all the losers too. 

I then used my margin from the investments to keep my stocks and borrow at a very low rate which cannot be changed. 

The friends overpaid since they put down the downpayment, closing costs, renovations, repairs and the homes are worth less even in a good neighborhood. The market over $400k has taken a big hit. My premise at the time was they were going to come down. 

We instead bought in a top location, premier building, and at a 30% discount from where it was priced just two years ago. Now all the building systems (it’s a condo) have been completely redone along with the hallways. maintence fees will go down at the end of this year. The other unit owners have already told me we bought at the bottom and now I’m looking at other apartments to buy and rent out if the price is right. 160 units and 1 rental available . They go very fast. 

Its not very difficult to pick winning stocks and get incredible returns. Just take me a bit of work, common sense and patience. 

Why don’t more people and Millennnials simply do the same as I’ve done?

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Joe SplitrockPro Member
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Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes
8y

@Account Closed of course it depends on what real estate market you live in. You refer to large upfront costs, but most millennials buying their first home are able to leverage very low down payments, like 3%. You mention waiting 5 years, well I can tell you that house purchases I made 5-7 years ago have gone up substantially in value, as have rents. 

I would not buy a condo in any market. When the market shifts, condos are the first to lose value and the last to increase in value (might be why you are getting a deal now). Condos are also challenging because of HOA - many don't even allow renting.

Really it is mostly about timing. Anyone that invested in the stock market from 2012-on has made significant money, because it has been a good bull run. We all have to be careful to not confuse our timing success for fundamental success. As any market matures (stock or housing) it get's harder to pick winners and sustain the same returns. 

The flip side of your argument for renting the last 5 years is how much money was wasted on monthly rent. Let's say your rent was $1000 per month, that would be $60,000 that you paid out. Had you purchased, that same $60,000 would have partially gone to principal pay down. House prices were substantially lower 5 years ago than they are now. Assuming a 3% down payment, your cash return on buying 5 years ago would be pretty good.

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  • Investor · Downers Grove, IL · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 955 votes
    8y

    @Account Closed

    Congratulations to you in your success!

    I believed you just answered your own question

    "Just take me a bit of work, common sense and patience."

    Some people don't do research or don't understand, not everything is "common sense" and most people have no patience. 

  • Rental Property Investor · Dallas, TX · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    8y

    @Account Closed You did the right thing. I'm still shocked that most people have trouble "trusting" the stock market which I feel is a testament to their poor research skills. 

    9/10 times an investor will out ahead if they buy the S&P500 index and follow their asset allocation strategy. That's it ... no more complexity required.

    Rent is not wasting money. At least, not in most major MSAs. If anything, the amount of flexibility and control you have over your living situation (especially in the early years) is unmatched. This is true for professional, mobile white-collar workers with in-demand careers: technology, engineering, healthcare, finance, law and similar professions (STEM and other high-paying fields).

  • Rental Property Investor · Durham, NC · Member since 2016 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    8y
    That’s what I’m doing. I have no desire to own a home anytime soon (to live in)
  • Joe SplitrockPro Member
    Moderator
    Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes
    8y

    @Account Closed of course it depends on what real estate market you live in. You refer to large upfront costs, but most millennials buying their first home are able to leverage very low down payments, like 3%. You mention waiting 5 years, well I can tell you that house purchases I made 5-7 years ago have gone up substantially in value, as have rents. 

    I would not buy a condo in any market. When the market shifts, condos are the first to lose value and the last to increase in value (might be why you are getting a deal now). Condos are also challenging because of HOA - many don't even allow renting.

    Really it is mostly about timing. Anyone that invested in the stock market from 2012-on has made significant money, because it has been a good bull run. We all have to be careful to not confuse our timing success for fundamental success. As any market matures (stock or housing) it get's harder to pick winners and sustain the same returns. 

    The flip side of your argument for renting the last 5 years is how much money was wasted on monthly rent. Let's say your rent was $1000 per month, that would be $60,000 that you paid out. Had you purchased, that same $60,000 would have partially gone to principal pay down. House prices were substantially lower 5 years ago than they are now. Assuming a 3% down payment, your cash return on buying 5 years ago would be pretty good.

  • Rental Property Investor · East Wenatchee, WA · Member since 2014 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
    8y

    Most of us on BP do both.  We have RE and paper securities.  There have been some good and lengthy discussions about the pros cons of RE vs the market here on BP.

    I hold a lot of cash for RE opportunities that I could put in the market, but Dow 25k and all the trade wars, tweets, et al out of my control make me a bit anxious.  I've never had a seller of a stock call me and offer  me a 30% discount for a quick cash buy because his brother died and he owns the house now and it makes him sad and it needs too many repairs for a loan.  

     Stocks have never let me purchase with leverage of 5-20:1. Margins can be called and when they are it will always be at the wrong time, when things are down.  I saw it many times in my fin svc days as a 7. Margin borrowers are all geniuses til the tide goes out.

    Banks won't lend you money to purchase securities,  even their own Stock, but fall over backwards to lend you money against RE. Why is that?

    On the flip side, stocks have never given me drama or moved out or needed repairs, snow removal, etc.  There is or should be room for both asset classes in a wealth-driven portfolio.

  • South Portland, ME · Member since 2018 · 9 posts · 1 vote
    8y
    Buying a home and house hacking is going to bring you better returns the the stock market will though If you go from paying 1000 a month rent to only covering say vac rate / cap x ect You’ll save 600-700 a month right there If you down payment is say 20k And you are saving 8400 a year that’s 40% return Not including equity , tax savings , long term benefit of raising rent. Ect
  • Investor · Columbus, OH · Member since 2015 · 625 posts · 601 votes
    8y
    I am a millennial and I have never regretted buying my personal residence... And LOL at it's not very hard to pick winning stocks and get incredible returns I'm just going to leave that one alone. Good luck with your investing.
  • Investor · Boston, MA · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    8y

    Its almost as if, and this may come as a shock to some folks,  there is no universal optimum way to invest . It may depend on the individual's personal attributes, their income streams, location, timing, luck, and a host of other variables. No one has perfect information.

    @Account Closed did what was right for him given his circumstances, but a successful outcome does not automatically mean all the right choices were made. 

    A rising tide lifts all boats and don't confuse luck and skill, especially in the short term.

  • Investor · Jersey City, NJ · Member since 2016 · 84 posts · 11 votes
    8y

    Its not hard picking stocks, at least not in this current environment. The challenge us doing it when it's a bearish market. Unless you have gone through that then you can't relate. Similar to folks who bought real estate at peak and the market tanked in 2008. I invest in both real estate and equity. My returns over past two years for one condo is 35% (unrealized) and for my stock IRA portfolio is over 100% . However the big difference is leverage. That 35% return in RE equals more money for me due to the size of the investment $200k. I think one should definitely be investing in both, otherwise you're not maximizing you're returns.

  • Jason LeePro Member
    Real Estate Agent · New York, NY · Member since 2015 · 401 posts · 235 votes
    8y

    "Most Millennials regret buying a home"

    Really? Where's your data?

  • Chris MasonPro Member
    Moderator
    Lender · CA · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 10k+ votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:

    I took the difference between what we paid in rent versus buying and invested in the stock market. That allowed me to have far greater market returns then a index fund or any real estate i could have bought. We are talking about 85% on average on a compunded basis between investing and trading even with all the losers too. 

    Why don’t more people and Millennnials simply do the same as I’ve done?

    Most people can't get 85% ROI on Wall Street. If you can do that on Wall Street, but not in real estate, than obviously Wall Street should be your niche... do what you're good at, not what you aren't good at. Real estate isn't for everyone, especially not someone with a talent-set such as yours, able to pull off what 95% of people can't. The same way that GCs are a 'natural' fit for fix-n-flip, listing agents are a 'natural' fit for buying distressed properties, and I as a mortgage lender am a 'natural' fit for finding and exploiting mortgage guideline loophopes/niches, you're obviously a 'natural' fit to invest in the stock market. Keep doing your thing, it's clearly what is right for you! It similarly wouldn't make sense for Warren Buffett to mess around with investing in a fourplex, or for Bill Gates to get in the fast food business. For you, the opportunity cost of tying up a down payment on real estate would be missing out on that 85% ROI... wouldn't make sense.

  • Rental Property Investor · Erie, PA · Member since 2018 · 6k+ posts · 9k+ votes
    8y
    Sure stocks do great now at the highest we have ever done and at the top of the cycle .. wait a few years for the “ correction “ ..then we will really see what does better . When stocks tank will you still get that incredible return ? When good jobs are cut people lose their houses and they can’t live in a car with the family .. they have to rent . That’s where RE investors have the advantage .
  • Rental Property Investor · Dallas, TX · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Dennis M.:

    Sure stocks do great now at the highest we have ever done and at the top of the cycle .. wait a few years for the “ correction “ ..then we will really see what does better . When stocks tank will you still get that incredible return ? When good jobs are cut people lose their houses and they can’t live in a car with the family .. they have to rent . That’s where RE investors have the advantage .

    lol... You realize when "stocks" go down, that means the economy is going down i.e. real estate valuations get affected. God forbid you have a liquidity issue at that exact same time, then you're stuck holding an illiquid asset in a declining market.

    As @Bill F. said there is no one universal way of making money. But drinking the Kool Aid and jumping off the deep end doesn't help anyone. 

  • Rental Property Investor · Erie, PA · Member since 2018 · 6k+ posts · 9k+ votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Omar Khan:
    Originally posted by @Dennis M.:

    Sure stocks do great now at the highest we have ever done and at the top of the cycle .. wait a few years for the “ correction “ ..then we will really see what does better . When stocks tank will you still get that incredible return ? When good jobs are cut people lose their houses and they can’t live in a car with the family .. they have to rent . That’s where RE investors have the advantage .

    lol... You realize when "stocks" go down, that means the economy is going down i.e. real estate valuations get affected. God forbid you have a liquidity issue at that exact same time, then you're stuck holding an illiquid asset in a declining market.

    As @Bill F. said there is no one universal way of making money. But drinking the Kool Aid and jumping off the deep end doesn't help anyone. 

     I am buy and hold investing. I would not sell a cash flowing asset property especially in a downturn economy  .ita true liquidity will suffer but I don’t plan to sell or maybe not even finance so they’d okay too . I’ll take those former homeowners who need a spot to lay their heads that lost their money and home in the bad  market 

  • Rental Property Investor · Dallas, TX · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Dennis M.:
    Originally posted by @Omar Khan:
    Originally posted by @Dennis M.:

    Sure stocks do great now at the highest we have ever done and at the top of the cycle .. wait a few years for the “ correction “ ..then we will really see what does better . When stocks tank will you still get that incredible return ? When good jobs are cut people lose their houses and they can’t live in a car with the family .. they have to rent . That’s where RE investors have the advantage .

    lol... You realize when "stocks" go down, that means the economy is going down i.e. real estate valuations get affected. God forbid you have a liquidity issue at that exact same time, then you're stuck holding an illiquid asset in a declining market.

    As @Bill F. said there is no one universal way of making money. But drinking the Kool Aid and jumping off the deep end doesn't help anyone. 

     I am buy and hold investing. I would not sell a cash flowing asset property especially in a downturn economy  .ita true liquidity will suffer but I don’t plan to sell or maybe not even finance so they’d okay too . I’ll take those former homeowners who need a spot to lay their heads that lost their money and home in the bad  market 

    You might not be a millennial (the OP was talking about millennials) or a millennial outlier who's done exceptionally well for himself at an early age. 

    The fact that you would opportunistically take from former owners (good strategy and timing), shows that asset illiquidity is the biggest issue facing millennials or folks with lesser means than you i.e. the same issue I was talking about. 

  • Rental Property Investor · Erie, PA · Member since 2018 · 6k+ posts · 9k+ votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Omar Khan:
    Originally posted by @Dennis M.:
    Originally posted by @Omar Khan:
    Originally posted by @Dennis M.:

    Sure stocks do great now at the highest we have ever done and at the top of the cycle .. wait a few years for the “ correction “ ..then we will really see what does better . When stocks tank will you still get that incredible return ? When good jobs are cut people lose their houses and they can’t live in a car with the family .. they have to rent . That’s where RE investors have the advantage .

    lol... You realize when "stocks" go down, that means the economy is going down i.e. real estate valuations get affected. God forbid you have a liquidity issue at that exact same time, then you're stuck holding an illiquid asset in a declining market.

    As @Bill F. said there is no one universal way of making money. But drinking the Kool Aid and jumping off the deep end doesn't help anyone. 

     I am buy and hold investing. I would not sell a cash flowing asset property especially in a downturn economy  .ita true liquidity will suffer but I don’t plan to sell or maybe not even finance so they’d okay too . I’ll take those former homeowners who need a spot to lay their heads that lost their money and home in the bad  market 

    You might not be a millennial (the OP was talking about millennials) or a millennial outlier who's done exceptionally well for himself at an early age. 

    The fact that you would opportunistically take from former owners (good strategy and timing), shows that asset illiquidity is the biggest issue facing millennials or folks with lesser means than you i.e. the same issue I was talking about. 

    Well  I would not be opportunistic to do so . I would not deliberately try to profit off someone’s misery .i can’t help the choices they made in life with their income and investments .I’m just saying it’s a natural consequence of not planning and putting their eggs in one basket could result in them becoming renters in a down economy 

  • Investor · Boston, MA · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Omar Khan:
    Originally posted by @Dennis M.:
    Originally posted by @Omar Khan:
    Originally posted by @Dennis M.:

    Sure stocks do great now at the highest we have ever done and at the top of the cycle .. wait a few years for the “ correction “ ..then we will really see what does better . When stocks tank will you still get that incredible return ? When good jobs are cut people lose their houses and they can’t live in a car with the family .. they have to rent . That’s where RE investors have the advantage .

    lol... You realize when "stocks" go down, that means the economy is going down i.e. real estate valuations get affected. God forbid you have a liquidity issue at that exact same time, then you're stuck holding an illiquid asset in a declining market.

    As @Bill F. said there is no one universal way of making money. But drinking the Kool Aid and jumping off the deep end doesn't help anyone. 

     I am buy and hold investing. I would not sell a cash flowing asset property especially in a downturn economy  .ita true liquidity will suffer but I don’t plan to sell or maybe not even finance so they’d okay too . I’ll take those former homeowners who need a spot to lay their heads that lost their money and home in the bad  market 

    You might not be a millennial (the OP was talking about millennials) or a millennial outlier who's done exceptionally well for himself at an early age. 

    The fact that you would opportunistically take from former owners (good strategy and timing), shows that asset illiquidity is the biggest issue facing millennials or folks with lesser means than you i.e. the same issue I was talking about. 

    Can we agree that all of us have a shared goal of making a healthy return on our money? At a 30,000 foot view RE and stocks are both assets and they are not better or worse due to their pros and cons. They are tools that can help us accomplish our goals. 

    If I have asset x, and I know it makes $y.00 in profit a year. Because this asset produces that income, we can do things that make it produce more income or hire people to increase those profits. If we increase those profits, other investors will pay us more than we paid. The government could incentives me to do more with asset x by giving me tax breaks because it encourages things they like. Since asset x makes so much income, banks could also loan me money if I promise to give them asset x if I default. 

    Since this is BP most people think I'm describing my rentals, but I was thinking about my Ford stock. RE and stocks aren't as dissimilar as we like to thing. 

    Just like my mom says, I'm not better than my sister, stocks aren't better than RE; we are all just different.

  • Rental Property Investor · Dallas, TX · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    8y

    @Dennis M. I 100% agree with your strategy. It's not your fault and you're not the one responsible (so far ;) ) for economic downturns or unfortunate economic events. 

    The point I made was that you have a level of economic cushion that most millennials don't have. Hence, they don't have the same options as you do and have to operate differently.

  • Investor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2017 · 523 posts · 476 votes
    8y

    (Older) millennial here. I think one big issue for millennial with buying is that our generation seems to have gravitated towards more urban settings (and I don't just mean NYC or SF or LA, but cities in general, as compared to suburbs). I hear that trend is starting to shift as folks age and some start families, which suburbs are better for, but being in a city, where costs are higher, often makes renting more realistic. Plus, if the rate of marriage or having kids is lower for millennial (we know it is), doesn't that dampen the desire to buy a house? 

    Also, a LOT of folks remember the 2008 crash very freshly in our minds (I was 24 when it began), and I wonder how much it shaped folks thinking around home ownership and finances in general? I know it scared plenty of my friends, especially those who might not have the same interest in financial matters as the BP audience. 

    I think this is great news for us as rental property investors. More people will be renting well into the future, even once they have families - recently read a Wall Street Journal piece that some bigger institutional investors are planning on acquiring lots of single family's in good markets like Florida, Texas, Arizona, because they anticipate plenty of relatively affluent folks (millennial mainly it seems), renting well into the future. We can all follow that trend to some degree and make money from it. 

    Speaking for myself, I moved back home with the parents here in the LA area, after leaving my job in NYC after many years in that city. It's been great, but now, I'm seriously considering renting in a few areas in LA that I really like, even though at the same time I have rental property. My parents think it's crazy that a guy who invests in real estate doesn't want to buy a house for himself (and I will eventually), but I love the flexibility (I can always move to a new area that seems cool, and with the amount of new construction in LA, we can often get a month of free rent), not to mention, living in cool areas where the sort of house I'd want either isn't commonly found or is not worth the price, in my view. 

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