James Wise Clayton Morris Trailer video

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James Wise Clayton Morris Trailer video

Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes

For all of you who did not catch this Trailer video that James posted on U Tube I was able to watch it.. 

I found it well done.  And was even more amazed that Jim got Clayton on the phone all the way from Portugal.

other than a few F bombs by both parties.. it was and is well done.

Even a little Cameo from myself LOL..

Jim has gotten videos and audio testimony from industry experts and actual victims as well as when you see it a phone call with Clayton himself.. I am not sure if there is more Audio on Clayton that I saw on the trailer.

But suffice it to say.. it was Vintage Morris  IE just pretty much exactly how his wife portrays them as victims.

Clayton goes on to mention other Indy providers that were in the same mess with Whalen .. And then proceeds to question Jim's investigative reporting bona fides.. And Clayton wanted to know what business was it of Jim's to be doing this at all.  And Clayton mentioned me as well as I have been from the very first post pretty straight forward that the model as sold by Morris even if all the rehab funds had not been diverted and you had ponzi like rental payments being made , that the model is and was flawed from day one and would never have worked as he described.. 

The big one though was When Jim says to Clayton  " But dude your in Portugal how does that make you look"  no answer.. 

For sure one thing is certain he is no dummy and I am sure he talked to many lawyers about where he could go to avoid massive litigation and potential criminal and then set up shop and keep selling whatever he is selling to new folks.

U still see it on any social media when his wife gets on and does the Poor this is not fair to Clayton or I routine.. there will be 50 people singing their praise.. Of course I Bet not one of them lost their entire life's savings like one of the investors that Jim had interviewed and is on the trailer.. 

I commend Jim for his work in this .. It will have benefits throughout the industry showing and teaching people about OOS investing and being led by someone with a lot of fame but no real estate experience to speak of... 

Lastly this is a sad case Morris with his background could have been one of the larger resellers of rentals in the US no doubt right up there with the other big resale companies we all know about.. And I can tell you from first hand experience all those other resale companies ran into the same thing Morris did.. but the difference is they realized it quickly and cut off those bad actors by and large. 

@Jim K.@James Wise    Jim I tagged you on accident but in reality you could write the how to book on how to navigate those lower end assets. 

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Kathy FettkePro Member
Rental Property Investor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2014 · 100 posts · 180 votes
6y

I had Clayton on my podcast years ago and was shocked that he was selling properties in the hood. I'd been down that road and knew the perils of it. I asked how he was making that work as it sounded risky to me. He said it was going great. (I thought, there must be something he doesn't know quite yet...)

In 2010, a large group of Australians came to me begging for $10,000 properties that rented for $900/month, as they'd seen on TV somewhere. I told them if I could find such a thing, I would buy it too! :-) 

We ended up touring Kansas City together and met with several "turnkey" providers. One of them was a property manager in the inner city of KC. On paper, he had these kinds of returns. I warned the Aussies in a follow up email that low-income, high crime areas were not recommended by me or RWN. They wrote back saying it was none of my business what they do... After all, the homes were so very cheap  - often less than $10,000 - what could go wrong? (Everything!)

Several bought these rentals, in spite of my advice. Not many months later, they contacted me to tell me it was a nightmare. The properties had high turnover, and every time they did a make-ready, items would get stolen. The repair costs from damage and theft were so high they begged to sell these inner-city properties. But who would buy?

They tried to blame me but I reminded them of the email I sent them. Investors really do need to take responsibility for the choices they make. They can sue all day long, but in the end, they won't get their money back in most cases. Does Clayton have insurance? I doubt it. While he should have been on top of the situation, so should the investors. Did they visit the properties, perform inspections and appraisals and rent comps? They never should have paid for renovations before they were done. 

I don't mean to sound harsh, but I am quite Republican in this regard. People, especially investors, need to take responsibility for the choices they make. Many of these losses could have been avoided with property due diligence. A Fox TV host does not make someone a savvy real estate investor. 

Some consider me a "celebrity" too but this doesn't mean that just because I recommend something, investors shouldn't also do their proper due diligence. A guy bought some crappy properties through a provider we no longer work with. He failed to visit the property, get inspections or appraisals. He didn't do any investigation at all. And when things didn't work out, he wanted to blame me. I didn't even know he bought them! He never asked for my advice. We were never paid any kind of referral fee.

I hate seeing investors lose money. I have lost money from trusting the wrong people, and it stinks. But I never blamed anyone but myself.

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  • James Wise
    Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:

    For all of you who did not catch this Trailer video that James posted on U Tube I was able to watch it.. 

    I found it well done.  And was even more amazed that Jim got Clayton on the phone all the way from Portugal.

    other than a few F bombs by both parties.. it was and is well done.

    Even a little Cameo from myself LOL..

    Jim has gotten videos and audio testimony from industry experts and actual victims as well as when you see it a phone call with Clayton himself.. I am not sure if there is more Audio on Clayton that I saw on the trailer.

    But suffice it to say.. it was Vintage Morris  IE just pretty much exactly how his wife portrays them as victims.

    Clayton goes on to mention other Indy providers that were in the same mess with Whalen .. And then proceeds to question Jim's investigative reporting bona fides.. And Clayton wanted to know what business was it of Jim's to be doing this at all.  And Clayton mentioned me as well as I have been from the very first post pretty straight forward that the model as sold by Morris even if all the rehab funds had not been diverted and you had ponzi like rental payments being made , that the model is and was flawed from day one and would never have worked as he described.. 

    The big one though was When Jim says to Clayton  " But dude your in Portugal how does that make you look"  no answer.. 

    For sure one thing is certain he is no dummy and I am sure he talked to many lawyers about where he could go to avoid massive litigation and potential criminal and then set up shop and keep selling whatever he is selling to new folks.

    U still see it on any social media when his wife gets on and does the Poor this is not fair to Clayton or I routine.. there will be 50 people singing their praise.. Of course I Bet not one of them lost their entire life's savings like one of the investors that Jim had interviewed and is on the trailer.. 

    I commend Jim for his work in this .. It will have benefits throughout the industry showing and teaching people about OOS investing and being led by someone with a lot of fame but no real estate experience to speak of... 

    Lastly this is a sad case Morris with his background could have been one of the larger resellers of rentals in the US no doubt right up there with the other big resale companies we all know about.. And I can tell you from first hand experience all those other resale companies ran into the same thing Morris did.. but the difference is they realized it quickly and cut off those bad actors by and large. 

    @Jim K.@James Wise    Jim I tagged you on accident but in reality you could write the how to book on how to navigate those lower end assets. 

     To answer your question about whether or not there is any more of the phone conversation I had with Clayton Morris in the full film, yes there is. That call lasted roughly a half hour.

    And for those who are upset that the trailer is temporally down, stay tuned as I have some interesting updates on that getting published later today. You'll all have the opportunity to assist in the legal fight Clayton Morris has began with me to suppress this information.

    6Reply
  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    OP
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    6y

    Well I see you Jim as a street fighter so will be interesting to see how this all unfolds..  I just have to also think American Greed picks this up as some point.. 

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  • Jim K.
    Handyman · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2018 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:

    For all of you who did not catch this Trailer video that James posted on U Tube I was able to watch it.. 

    I found it well done.  And was even more amazed that Jim got Clayton on the phone all the way from Portugal.

    other than a few F bombs by both parties.. it was and is well done.

    Even a little Cameo from myself LOL..

    Jim has gotten videos and audio testimony from industry experts and actual victims as well as when you see it a phone call with Clayton himself.. I am not sure if there is more Audio on Clayton that I saw on the trailer.

    But suffice it to say.. it was Vintage Morris  IE just pretty much exactly how his wife portrays them as victims.

    Clayton goes on to mention other Indy providers that were in the same mess with Whalen .. And then proceeds to question Jim's investigative reporting bona fides.. And Clayton wanted to know what business was it of Jim's to be doing this at all.  And Clayton mentioned me as well as I have been from the very first post pretty straight forward that the model as sold by Morris even if all the rehab funds had not been diverted and you had ponzi like rental payments being made , that the model is and was flawed from day one and would never have worked as he described.. 

    The big one though was When Jim says to Clayton  " But dude your in Portugal how does that make you look"  no answer.. 

    For sure one thing is certain he is no dummy and I am sure he talked to many lawyers about where he could go to avoid massive litigation and potential criminal and then set up shop and keep selling whatever he is selling to new folks.

    U still see it on any social media when his wife gets on and does the Poor this is not fair to Clayton or I routine.. there will be 50 people singing their praise.. Of course I Bet not one of them lost their entire life's savings like one of the investors that Jim had interviewed and is on the trailer.. 

    I commend Jim for his work in this .. It will have benefits throughout the industry showing and teaching people about OOS investing and being led by someone with a lot of fame but no real estate experience to speak of... 

    Lastly this is a sad case Morris with his background could have been one of the larger resellers of rentals in the US no doubt right up there with the other big resale companies we all know about.. And I can tell you from first hand experience all those other resale companies ran into the same thing Morris did.. but the difference is they realized it quickly and cut off those bad actors by and large. 

    @Jim K.@James Wise    Jim I tagged you on accident but in reality you could write the how to book on how to navigate those lower end assets. 

    Jay, Jim, I was lucky enough to catch the trailer. As you well know, Jim, you and I disagree on some things. But I am compelled to say that the most admirable thing about you is an unquestionable, rock-solid honesty about real estate that makes you the perfect guy to get someone like Clayton Morris on the phone and ask him some hard questions. If you could use another volunteer reviewer with a bit of copyediting experience in the publishing industry, please count me in.

    Jay, I joined the site after quite some time lurking and not committing. I remember some of your first posts on this years ago. First the start, you knew this had to be off somehow. At the time, I wasn't quite sure, didn't have quite the experience necessary in this asset category to understand your certainty. But the years have passed, the complaints have come steadily, the absolutely heartbreaking stories have multiplied,  the predictions you made years ago have all come true.

    Jim, I think your documentary is going to end up as a must-watch specialist training video on turnkey real estate investing, something everyone interested in putting money into these kinds of assets is going to be pointed toward as a cautionary warning. An act of good. I wish you the best of luck completing it and dealing with the Morrises being the Morrises about trying to keep you from promoting and getting it out.

    2Reply
  • James Wise
    Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Jim K.:
    Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:

    For all of you who did not catch this Trailer video that James posted on U Tube I was able to watch it.. 

    I found it well done.  And was even more amazed that Jim got Clayton on the phone all the way from Portugal.

    other than a few F bombs by both parties.. it was and is well done.

    Even a little Cameo from myself LOL..

    Jim has gotten videos and audio testimony from industry experts and actual victims as well as when you see it a phone call with Clayton himself.. I am not sure if there is more Audio on Clayton that I saw on the trailer.

    But suffice it to say.. it was Vintage Morris  IE just pretty much exactly how his wife portrays them as victims.

    Clayton goes on to mention other Indy providers that were in the same mess with Whalen .. And then proceeds to question Jim's investigative reporting bona fides.. And Clayton wanted to know what business was it of Jim's to be doing this at all.  And Clayton mentioned me as well as I have been from the very first post pretty straight forward that the model as sold by Morris even if all the rehab funds had not been diverted and you had ponzi like rental payments being made , that the model is and was flawed from day one and would never have worked as he described.. 

    The big one though was When Jim says to Clayton  " But dude your in Portugal how does that make you look"  no answer.. 

    For sure one thing is certain he is no dummy and I am sure he talked to many lawyers about where he could go to avoid massive litigation and potential criminal and then set up shop and keep selling whatever he is selling to new folks.

    U still see it on any social media when his wife gets on and does the Poor this is not fair to Clayton or I routine.. there will be 50 people singing their praise.. Of course I Bet not one of them lost their entire life's savings like one of the investors that Jim had interviewed and is on the trailer.. 

    I commend Jim for his work in this .. It will have benefits throughout the industry showing and teaching people about OOS investing and being led by someone with a lot of fame but no real estate experience to speak of... 

    Lastly this is a sad case Morris with his background could have been one of the larger resellers of rentals in the US no doubt right up there with the other big resale companies we all know about.. And I can tell you from first hand experience all those other resale companies ran into the same thing Morris did.. but the difference is they realized it quickly and cut off those bad actors by and large. 

    @Jim K.@James Wise    Jim I tagged you on accident but in reality you could write the how to book on how to navigate those lower end assets. 

    Jay, Jim, I was lucky enough to catch the trailer. As you well know, Jim, you and I disagree on some things. But I am compelled to say that the most admirable thing about you is an unquestionable, rock-solid honesty about real estate that makes you the perfect guy to get someone like Clayton Morris on the phone and ask him some hard questions. If you could use another volunteer reviewer with a bit of copyediting experience in the publishing industry, please count me in.

    Jay, I joined the site after quite some time lurking and not committing. I remember some of your first posts on this years ago. First the start, you knew this had to be off somehow. At the time, I wasn't quite sure, didn't have quite the experience necessary in this asset category to understand your certainty. But the years have passed, the complaints have come steadily, the absolutely heartbreaking stories have multiplied,  the predictions you made years ago have all come true.

    Jim, I think your documentary is going to end up as a must-watch specialist training video on turnkey real estate investing, something everyone interested in putting money into these kinds of assets is going to be pointed toward as a cautionary warning. An act of good. I wish you the best of luck completing it and dealing with the Morrises being the Morrises about trying to keep you from promoting and getting it out.

    Yea it's likely going to be a bit of a battle getting it all out there but my team and I anticipated this being that Clayton is no stranger to the media industry. To be honest the fact that he is trying to suppress it is only making it a much larger and deeper story. I have seen an uptick in those who want to get their story on the record since the trailer got pulled down. There are a lot of people who are tired of being silenced who are banding together as a unit. I didn't know this prior to starting this project, but there are several groups who've banded together to support one another and things of that nature. 

    For example I interviewed a woman yesterday. She was explaining to me how she was told about a fire at one of her vacant Morris properties in March of 2018. Being objective I explained that things like that do happen and that isn't really an issue with Clayton......Then she clarified for me that she was told about the fire in March 2018 but it had actually occurred in January 2018. It was extremely odd that it was still vacant in January 2018 considering that she was told in July 2017 that the property would be tenanted as soon as the replacement windows they were waiting on came in.

    3Reply
  • Kathy FettkePro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2014 · 100 posts · 180 votes
    6y

    I had Clayton on my podcast years ago and was shocked that he was selling properties in the hood. I'd been down that road and knew the perils of it. I asked how he was making that work as it sounded risky to me. He said it was going great. (I thought, there must be something he doesn't know quite yet...)

    In 2010, a large group of Australians came to me begging for $10,000 properties that rented for $900/month, as they'd seen on TV somewhere. I told them if I could find such a thing, I would buy it too! :-) 

    We ended up touring Kansas City together and met with several "turnkey" providers. One of them was a property manager in the inner city of KC. On paper, he had these kinds of returns. I warned the Aussies in a follow up email that low-income, high crime areas were not recommended by me or RWN. They wrote back saying it was none of my business what they do... After all, the homes were so very cheap  - often less than $10,000 - what could go wrong? (Everything!)

    Several bought these rentals, in spite of my advice. Not many months later, they contacted me to tell me it was a nightmare. The properties had high turnover, and every time they did a make-ready, items would get stolen. The repair costs from damage and theft were so high they begged to sell these inner-city properties. But who would buy?

    They tried to blame me but I reminded them of the email I sent them. Investors really do need to take responsibility for the choices they make. They can sue all day long, but in the end, they won't get their money back in most cases. Does Clayton have insurance? I doubt it. While he should have been on top of the situation, so should the investors. Did they visit the properties, perform inspections and appraisals and rent comps? They never should have paid for renovations before they were done. 

    I don't mean to sound harsh, but I am quite Republican in this regard. People, especially investors, need to take responsibility for the choices they make. Many of these losses could have been avoided with property due diligence. A Fox TV host does not make someone a savvy real estate investor. 

    Some consider me a "celebrity" too but this doesn't mean that just because I recommend something, investors shouldn't also do their proper due diligence. A guy bought some crappy properties through a provider we no longer work with. He failed to visit the property, get inspections or appraisals. He didn't do any investigation at all. And when things didn't work out, he wanted to blame me. I didn't even know he bought them! He never asked for my advice. We were never paid any kind of referral fee.

    I hate seeing investors lose money. I have lost money from trusting the wrong people, and it stinks. But I never blamed anyone but myself.

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    19Reply
  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    OP
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    6y

    @Kathy Fettke  I don't think he started selling properties until about 2016 or so maybe 2015.. 

    but as I said above.. this has happened to anyone who has been in this business long enough 

    the difference is you find that out quickly and you cut the bad actors off.. I believe he was just very green and very inept his model of 50k rentals would never work then and will not work in the future.. at least for OOS investors who have to hirer everything out. those props are only appropriate for local hands on landlords that have the thick skin to deal with those areas.  He knew the score well in advance but Greed does a funny thing.. you start selling 30 to 50 homes a month and making 5 to 7k a home you can do the math.. its hard to cut that type of income off .. 

    Many turn key folks I have funded over the years started with the highest yields but soon gave up.. 

    And for sure on site visits would have stopped this stuff along with a  true turn key model IE house all done before you close and verified by lender and home inspector.. 

    When this stuff first came up on BP one Member Tyler was posting monthly on his investment and he laid it out fully rehabbed house that the rehab budget was 9k.. right then I knew it was just smoke and mirrors.. 

    WE all live and learn.. Mr and Mrs Morris still have a long way to go.. but I guess if being in Exile in Portugal full fills them then I guess that's there choice they are awful young to be going through this .. and the magnitude of the loss's are staggering.. 

    Kathy  PS I was on a con call with one of your folks who works in your syndication department I am looking to put some equity into a few of the ATL new constructions that I think you will end up selling.. so its a small world out there.

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    3Reply
  • Brian M.
    Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2016 · 61 posts · 105 votes
    6y

    @Kathy Fettke No offense, but you sound like you don't really know or understand the level of fraud that has taken place in this thing.  If you do understand, are you saying that when people are defrauded, they should just blame themselves, suck it up and take the loss and move on?  No holding the fraudster accountable?  I doubt you feel this way.  

    The Morris Invest/Oceanpoint situation has been well documented.  It goes well beyond irresponsible investors.  Or poor real estate asset decisions.  Sure, due diligence was lacking in many cases here, but the perpetrators knowingly stole money from investors.  They lied over and over to every investor.  They committed wire fraud.  They were running a Ponzi scheme.

    Regardless of the ignorance or gullibility of the investors here, the criminals should be held accountable.

    8Reply
  • Account Closed
    Real Estate Investor · Waldorf, MD · Member since 2014 · 592 posts · 320 votes
    6y

    This thread is like TNT - "We know drama"...LOL!  I searched all over the web for the video but no traces could be found.  Now, this is what a call unscripted reality TV!!

    2Reply
  • Roni E.Pro Member
    Specialist · Earth 2.0 · Member since 2019 · 598 posts · 271 votes
    6y

    I had a feeling Mr. Morris would try to block Mr. Wise video. It is just a horrible situation for these investors I hope they get something back. Lower safer returns with ethical folks and people doing thier homework is a good strategy.

    0Reply
  • David BarnettPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Cambridge, MA · Member since 2016 · 634 posts · 415 votes
    6y

    Too bad I missed the video before it got taken down.  Hopefully I can be quicker when the next version appears!  I couldn't imagine why Clayton would want to video to be taken down...

    2Reply
  • Tim S.
    Investor · California, CA · Member since 2016 · 367 posts · 375 votes
    6y

    @Brian M. Yes Morris seems to have committed fraud, but had the investors done some basic due diligence, they most likely could have avoided becoming one of his victims.   I'm not suggesting he should be let off the hook, I hope he goes to jail.  But if you don't do your own investigations your are opening yourself up to being taken advantage of. 

    4Reply
  • Brian M.
    Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2016 · 61 posts · 105 votes
    6y

    @Tim S. Sure, but it's kind of a pointless statement.  There will always be scammers and fraudsters no matter how thorough and diligent people are.  It's like credit card fraud.  Every time the banks come up with a new level of security, the fraudsters are already a step ahead.

    So, in the end, sure - people need to be cautious.  But no matter how cautious people are, you still have to be able to trust those you do business with.  And when they betray that trust and commit crimes, may the weight of the world come crashing down on them to hold them accountable.  

    And I say huge kudos to those who were scammed here that are taking Morris and Oceanpoint to court.  They have my sympathies - not my judgement, admonishment and Monday morning QB'ing.  And kudos to @James Wise for shedding more light on this.

    4Reply
  • Joel Fine
    Rental Property Investor · Leander, TX · Member since 2018 · 183 posts · 264 votes
    6y

    It sounds kind Mr. Morris is trying to suppress information that is hurtful to him but accurate. I wonder if he's ever heard of the Streisand Effect. 

    From wikipedia:

    • The Streisand effect is a phenomenon whereby an attempt to hide, remove, or censor a piece of information has the unintended consequence of publicizing the information more widely, usually facilitated by the Internet.
    4Reply
  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    OP
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Joel Fine:

    It sounds kind Mr. Morris is trying to suppress information that is hurtful to him but accurate. I wonder if he's ever heard of the Streisand Effect. 

    From wikipedia:

    • The Streisand effect is a phenomenon whereby an attempt to hide, remove, or censor a piece of information has the unintended consequence of publicizing the information more widely, usually facilitated by the Internet.


    When Jim had him on the phone and Said " Dude your in Portugal what are people to think"  Crickets.. Innocent well established entrepreneurs don't flea the country.. and I use Flea on purpose. :)

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  • Ola Dantis
    Multifamily Syndicator · Houston, TX · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6y

    This is an interesting story, which could probably be a classic American greed episode OR the most naive Real Estate Investing story ever! 

    1Reply
  • James Wise
    Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Joel Fine:

    It sounds kind Mr. Morris is trying to suppress information that is hurtful to him but accurate. I wonder if he's ever heard of the Streisand Effect. 

    From wikipedia:

    • The Streisand effect is a phenomenon whereby an attempt to hide, remove, or censor a piece of information has the unintended consequence of publicizing the information more widely, usually facilitated by the Internet.

    Without a doubt. It's not like he can suppress it permanently. I have the footage and the ability to post it on various other platforms at any time. Filing the bogus copyright claim with YouTube was a major tactical mistake on Clayton's part.

    3Reply
  • Tanner Marsey
    Rental Property Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2017 · 439 posts · 578 votes
    6y

    @Kathy Fettke

    Well said. You know this. I know this. Common sense would tell you not to buy something that’s too good to be true, half way across the country and without laying eyes on it first. However, people always have and always will be blinded by the thought of “big” money, easy returns, and so on. There will always be stories like Clayton morris’ because of this.

    1 trip to the property, a few hours of due diligence(even from a distance) and some common sense could have saved people a lot of money and heartache. As with any investment.... nothing is guaranteed. Buyer beware. Unfortunately, people don't like to take responsibility for their own choices. Especially when the outcome is poor. Story would be way different if they were making 25% ROI....

    3Reply
  • Tim S.
    Investor · California, CA · Member since 2016 · 367 posts · 375 votes
    6y

    @Brian M.

    So you are saying these people were helpless, and no matter what they did, getting swindled by him was unavailable? This is where we disagree, visit the property and/or hire your own inspector, and the attempted fraud would have been uncovered before it happened.

    2Reply
  • James WilcoxBusiness Member
    Real Estate Agent · Bowling Green KY ~ Lexington, KY · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 600 votes
    6y

    @Jay Hinrichs not sure I get all that is going on with Morris but if Jay is backing @James Wise then IK it is for a good reason. 2 outstanding gentlemen in the REI and BP space. #fighton

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    2Reply
  • Chad McLeod
    Member since 2019 · 58 posts · 60 votes
    6y

    I find the victim blaming in here pretty hilarious.  People are being blamed for "greed" because they didn't do their due diligence.  Hmmm... but the actual CRIMINAL who commits FRAUD due to greed, eh, whatever.  Let's just gloss over him and try and put the focus on the people who got swindled.  There's always gonna be guys like him!  What are you gonna do?!  

    Not doing enough due diligence makes you ignorant, naive, etc.  You know what it doesn't make you?  A criminal who has to flee the country.  Some of you people need to rethink your priorities.

    5Reply
  • Tanner Marsey
    Rental Property Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2017 · 439 posts · 578 votes
    6y

    @Chad McLeod

    Not saying he shouldn’t have any repercussions for what he did but c’mon... you ever send the Nigerian prince your money and then get upset when things didn’t turn out as promised....?

    I think the blatant deep fraud became a little worse as he dug himself deeper into hole but at first he was just selling a subpar product promising great returns.... “if it’s too good to be true it usually is”.... there is a reason that saying with always ring true.

    2Reply
  • Chad McLeod
    Member since 2019 · 58 posts · 60 votes
    6y

    @Tanner Marsey

    No, the Nigerian prince definitely didn't get any of my money.  I actually work in fraud for a living so I've seen all kinds of scams and different ways people get taken advantage of.  And yes, sometimes it's surprising what people fall for.  But in the end I don't view those people as being dumb or uninformed or think that they were "asking for it."  I view them as being preyed upon.  Way more interested in prosecuting the people perpetrating the crime than I am focusing on any shortcomings of the victim.

    6Reply
  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    OP
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Tanner Marsey:

    @Kathy Fettke

    Well said. You know this. I know this. Common sense would tell you not to buy something that’s too good to be true, half way across the country and without laying eyes on it first. However, people always have and always will be blinded by the thought of “big” money, easy returns, and so on. There will always be stories like Clayton morris’ because of this.

    1 trip to the property, a few hours of due diligence(even from a distance) and some common sense could have saved people a lot of money and heartache. As with any investment.... nothing is guaranteed. Buyer beware. Unfortunately, people don't like to take responsibility for their own choices. Especially when the outcome is poor. Story would be way different if they were making 25% ROI....

    Tanner this is the issue what Morris promotes is NOT TOO GOOD TO BE TRUE it was a 10% rental return.. virtually every provider tries to hit that number and higher.. it the same Way Madoff promised 9% was not to high to be to good to be true.. And at that point Turn key was and has been well established so it was believable.. I for one have been funding turn key buys for the providers since the early 2000's. before virtually everyone you hear about today was in business it was the first crop of providers.. And the leads were generated the same way LA based radio show hosts that teamed up with providers.. my go to was the Radio Round table with Mike Harris and crew.. I believe Mike is still on the air although just selling mortgages..  and in your area it was Jay and Bill who had a Sat . morning radio show we closed hundreds upon hundreds of deals for these guys SOCAL based investors.

    Podcast Guest on Show #222
    JLH Capital Partners51 Review
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    1Reply
  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    OP
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Tim S.:

    @Brian M.

    So you are saying these people were helpless, and no matter what they did, getting swindled by him was unavailable? This is where we disagree, visit the property and/or hire your own inspector, and the attempted fraud would have been uncovered before it happened. 

    The brilliance from the fraudsters end was the ponzi of the rents.. IE paying rent even though they were not collecting any.. we see all the time people say they never look at their OOS rental and just sit back and collect their rent money. its quite common.  However if they don't get their rent money then they start to take action..  So if these guys had not paid rents on vacant houses this would have been caught early on and nipped at probably 50 to 100 homes instead of the nearly 1000 that got sold.  And then on BP U had Tyler posting every month that he got his rent check.. So others thought after 3 months of that hey it has to be OK..  But your point is well taken.. If buyers bought rental property like I sell my new construction  IE buyers walks through  orders home inspection and some pay cash but most finance at least they know what they are getting.. So if buyers of rentals just did the same thing at least the first few that would have mitigated this there is no arguing that fact.  And or listened to me 3 or so years ago when I CALLED BS on the model altogether.  But my posts in reality sounded like sour grapes and for the most part were discarded and ignored. 

    Podcast Guest on Show #222
    JLH Capital Partners51 Review
    WebsiteView Page
    4Reply
  • Mike Dymski
    Investor · Greenville, SC · Member since 2016 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    6y

    Moral of the story - develop skill and add real value to people and you don't have to live in fear of your words and actions.  Most people either don't have enough skill...or they only add value to themselves (disguised as adding value to others).

    9Reply
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