BRRRR Success AND Failure - Lessons Learned in 2019

BRRRR Success AND Failure - Lessons Learned in 2019

Real Estate Agent · Grand Rapids, MI · Member since 2016 · 251 posts · 224 votes

Hi All, 

Just wanted to post my experience with BRRRR method. I invested in Lansing, MI. I am originally from Grand Rapids, MI and currently live out of state in MN. Below is my 2019 experience jumping into real estate. LLong post ahead. Hopefully I cover the main points fully. So please follow up if you have any questions!

To get the capital for below it was a mix of savings and a HELOC on my primary residence.

TL;DR In 2019 I purchased a SFR and a Duplex in Lansing, MI. My first property was a fail due to an expensive rehab and margins that are way too slim. The duplex was for the most part a success. I was able to cash out most of my money and have a pretty good cash flowing property. I bolded my mistakes below. I probably made several more, these are just the ones that come to mind.

I will start with the BRRRR FAIL. In March 2019, I purchased a 3/1 SFR in Northwest Lansing. The purchase price was $35000. Based on my analysis at the time, I thought the property would be worth $52000 after rehab. Based on the photos of the home, I had thought it was a pretty easy rehab with simply replacing the water heater, paint, and some other cosmetic updates here are there. I had a estimated a budget of ~$5k for repairs. Of course this was too good to be true and I was antsy to purchase my first property so I pulled the trigger.

I used a conventional loan from a local credit union, Michigan State Federal Credit Union. 20% down. 

MISTAKE#1 Closing Costs are EXPENSIVE. In my numbers, I did not budget for closing costs. Those came in around $3k for this purchase. 

Once I closed and got on the property, I walked the house with the contractor I planned to use. What I couldn't see in the photos were the shoddy workmanship the previous owners had done. There was lots of issues with the trim looking terrible, floors laid poorly (big gaps on sides), doors and walls in bad shape here and there Random door from a bedroom closet to the hallway (lol why?). Crap panelling just tossed on the wall. I didn't feel comfortable renting a property in this condition. 

MISTAKE#2 video walkthrough or better photos could have avoided this. 

Now once the rehab started, we realized there was some structural issues with one wall, there was extensive wall damage due to poor plumbing in the bathroom. This left me with rehabbing the whole bathroom instead of cosmetic update. This was just unfortunate. All in all, rehab ended up around $12-13k after painting. 

MISTAKE #3 I was working with a Contractor I liked. He completed the job within a reasonable time. His quality was pretty good, but I never got a second or third quote for the work. I am realizing he is pricy after the fact now. 

Rent: This property is rented for $760 to Section 8. This is lower than I was predicted for rent, but I just wanted it rented at that point. 

Refi: I used the same credit union to refi. They do 75% loan to value. Rough numbers below:

$53000 (appraised value) 
X .75 (LTV)
= 39750 (Loan Amount)
- $3000 (closing cost on refi)
- ~$28000 (existing loan amount)
= ~$9000 (cash out back to me)

All in all, this property was a FAIL. I was stuck with about $13-$14k in the property. It isnt renting for what I had hoped. Not to mentioned I had to replace the furnace I was hoping would last another year or two this past winter. 

So, onto the BRRRR SUCCESS. In July 2019, I purchased a SFH converted into a duplex. This is in the Old Everett - Greencroft Park neighborhood. Bottom unit is a 2/1. Top unit is a 1/1.

Purchase Price: $29500. This was listed at $45k. I tossed out my offer and due to their circumstances, they accepted it with no comeback. 

This house was in pretty rough shape. The upstairs unit looked decent. Had recent laminate flooring, but needed paint, new bathroom floor, new toilet. The downstairs needed all new flooring, new cabinets, new appliances, new drywall. Also some roofing needed patching. Some plumbing needed fixing. etc. Based off my assumptions, I thought this home would be appraised on the bright side $70k. On the low side, $55k. 

So trying to take some lessons learned from my first property, as part of inspection, I had two contractors supply a bid for the property. This ended up working out okay. I was okay with a rehab budget up to $10k. MISTAKE#4 There was a severe miscommunication with my contractor about his bid being labor only. I should have known that his bid was too low to be Materials + Labor. I learned the hard way about a mismanaged project and how it affects timelines. This was a decent size project, but it took 3+ months which seems much too excessive. MISTAKE#5 Poor project management should have been identified and fixed immediately. Shouldn't let a contractor take this long. MISTAKE#6 Scope creep was real in the project. Small things just added up one after another. Moving outlets into the wall, issues with hvac vents, extensive roof patching, new doors, etc. 

Rehab ended up ~$15000.

By late December , the property was rented. Total rent is $1400 for the two units. 

I am in the refinance process now with closing anticipated in the next week or so. I just got the appraisal back last week at $40,000!! Which is outrageous because the house in disrepairs was appraised at $33,000. I sent my loan officer an email with my disagreements and reasoning. Revised appraisal came back today at $64,000, which was soo much better. 

My refinance was again through MSUFCU. Rough numbers expected below.

$64000 (appraised value)
x .75 (LTV)
= $48,000
- ~23000 (loan balance)
- ~3000 (refi closing costs)
= $21-$22000 (cash out amount)

My all in was around $25k so I am ecstatic with the amount of money I have left in this deal. 

Although, with the good news of the appraisal coming in at $64000, I got bad news that city inspection came up with some plumbing fixes needed. That will cost $1200. 

My next steps: Add a second electrical circuit breaker to the duplex to accommodate baseboard heaters so i can split the heat utility in my duplex. Quote is about $2000 for this. Even with the last expenses I still consider the duplex a success. 

For 2020, I am planning on spending Q1 & Q2 regrouping my savings and reevaluating the path forward then. 

Apologies if this was scatterered, I just realized how hard it was to write a year long recap after I had already committed. haha

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Haiku, HI · Member since 2011 · 50 posts · 19 votes
6y

@Sean Sloop

1400 rent for the duplex with 45k into it? That is impressive, keep it up !!

See this reply in the discussion

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  • Member since 2019 · 1 post · 0 votes
    6y

    @Sean Sloop

    Really appreciate you sharing this experience. Thanks.

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Winder, GA · Member since 2020 · 8 posts · 0 votes
    6y

    @Sean Sloop

    Really inspiring the fact you didnt let it stop you was great

  • Member since 2020 · 5 posts · 1 vote
    6y

    Am I missing something here? Why are you not subtracting the rehab costs in your final equation. If you subtract your rehab costs you actually lost money? Honest question, I mean no disrespect. 

  • Real Estate Agent · Grand Rapids, MI · Member since 2016 · 251 posts · 224 votes
    6y

    @Zach Witt hey Zach, I mentioned below that I left like $4-5k in the duplex deal, but it's not really losing money. It's still there in equity.

    I consider it still a success as the COC will still be very good.

    In the perfect BRRRR you get all your money back and some. This was not 'perfect' but was still good for me.

    I recently heard a quote (maybe on the BP podcast) that the enemy of good is perfect (or something like that)

  • Member since 2020 · 5 posts · 1 vote
    6y

    @Sean Sloop so on your success deal, you had about $24,000 of your own money in it. It then appraised for 64,000 x .75= $48,000. So the remaining $24,000 was your cash out?

  • Real Estate Agent · Grand Rapids, MI · Member since 2016 · 251 posts · 224 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Zach Witt:

    @Sean Sloop so on your success deal, you had about $24,000 of your own money in it. It then appraised for 64,000 x .75= $48,000. So the remaining $24,000 was your cash out?

    The numbers will work out like this using round numbers:

    $64,000 (ARV)
    x.75 (LTV refi %)
    $48,000 (New loan)
    -$24,000 (old loan)
    -$3000 (refi closing costs)
    $21,000 (Cash to me at Closing)

    -$25,000 (Cash I invested: Down Payment, Closing Costs, Rehab)

    Net: -$4000 (My money left in the deal)

    This is rough numbers but you get the idea. All said and done, I would have 4-5k left in the duplex. 

    Does this make more sense?

  • Rental Property Investor · Calgary, AB · Member since 2020 · 4 posts · 0 votes
    6y

    @Sean Sloop good for you! My first property was a failure due to different reason bit I find it hard to recover still. Now I am trying to recover by finding a good deal. Thanks for sharing your story.

  • Investor · Las Vegas · Member since 2019 · 7 posts · 6 votes
    6y

    @Sean Sloop To have only 4-5k left in a cash flowing property is much better than 20k+. It sounds like you are still in the process with the refinance part of this but if you show and include your estimated debt service, cap ex, maintenance, property management fees, etc for the property with your cash flow, it will allow people to see your estimated cash on cash return. And with only 4-5k left in the deal, I am sure that number is something you are happy with. 

  • Real Estate Agent · Grand Rapids, MI · Member since 2016 · 251 posts · 224 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Christopher Coloma:

    @Sean Sloop To have only 4-5k left in a cash flowing property is much better than 20k+. It sounds like you are still in the process with the refinance part of this but if you show and include your estimated debt service, cap ex, maintenance, property management fees, etc for the property with your cash flow, it will allow people to see your estimated cash on cash return. And with only 4-5k left in the deal, I am sure that number is something you are happy with. 

    Just for you, I updated the post :)

  • Investor · Las Vegas · Member since 2019 · 7 posts · 6 votes
    6y

    50%?!? Nice @Sean Sloop 

  • Specialist · Member since 2019 · 32 posts · 22 votes
    6y

    @Sean Sloop mate this is super useful, thanks for sharing. Hats off to you for pushing through even on both sounds like some tough slog. Well done 👏🏻

  • Contractor · Orlando, FL · Member since 2019 · 2 posts · 0 votes
    6y

    @Sean Sloop this was a fantastic reflection on successes and failures. With that work ethic and learning discipline, I’m sure your brrrr deals will only get better with time. I’m a contractor based in Orlando, Florida and am just starting my real estate journey. So coming from a contractor’s perspective, I would definitely say creating a detailed scope of work for future bids will help you ensure you are comparing apples to apples. And as you develop your network of contractors, a valuable question is “do you do this work yourself, or do you sub it out?” I would be more likely to trust a contractor who has no problem answering that question with the truth, and if you can find guys who don’t sub out, you might find yourself saving even more money next time.

    Hope the input helps and good luck on the next ones! With that self reflection, I’m sure it will only be up from here for you and your real estate business!

  • Rochester, NY · Member since 2020 · 10 posts · 3 votes
    6y

    @Sean Sloop Thanks for sharing and being transparent.

  • Real Estate Agent · Grand Rapids, MI · Member since 2016 · 251 posts · 224 votes
    6y

    @Daniel Murphy excellent insight!

    I actually travel to Lake Mary, FL often for work. Maybe we will have to grab a coffee and we can pick each other's brains.

  • Real Estate Agent · Lansing, MI · Member since 2016 · 143 posts · 78 votes
    6y

    Great work Sean and thanks for sharing.

    I'm curious (forgive me if you answered this already) Where did you find your contractor and did you use the same contractor on both projects?  How did you find your property manager and realtor?  Did you make several low offers for the 2nd deal before you got one accepted?

  • Contractor · Orlando, FL · Member since 2019 · 2 posts · 0 votes
    6y

    @Sean Sloop for sure! I would definitely be up for meeting whenever you are in the area. I’m certain we could learn a thing or two from each other.

  • Real Estate Agent · Grand Rapids, MI · Member since 2016 · 251 posts · 224 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @David Hall:

    Great work Sean and thanks for sharing.

    I'm curious (forgive me if you answered this already) Where did you find your contractor and did you use the same contractor on both projects?  How did you find your property manager and realtor?  Did you make several low offers for the 2nd deal before you got one accepted?

    Hey David, 

    I found my first contractor through recommendation on BP. The second contractor was a reference from my Property Manager. I would recommend both with an asterisk ;) 

    My PM & Realtor are both DS Huber Properties. This was also a recommendation on BP, but I think I interviewed 3-4 PMs before I chose one. 

    I think I only gave one offer for my duplex. This property was on the MLS for a while, so I threw out an offer that worked for me and they accepted it. I believe the owner was elderly and just wanted it off their hands (at least that is the vibe I got from my realtor).

    Call it lucky? Then again, it was on the MLS for months so lesson learned in making offers haha.

  • Investor · New York, NY · Member since 2020 · 14 posts · 4 votes
    6y

    @Sean Sloop really appreciate you sharing your story! As a new investor planning to BRRRR as well, it's SO helpful to hear stories that don't always go exactly how they're intended. I know my first few deals will be huge learning opportunities as well, and I really admire your boldness to share and to keep going! Lots of luck on your next deal!

  • Kansas City · Member since 2018 · 2 posts · 0 votes
    6y

    Hello Joseph,

    I’m in KC as well. Let’s connect.

    @JosephKoury

  • Real Estate Agent · Chantilly, VA · Member since 2016 · 245 posts · 61 votes
    6y

    @Sean Sloop

    Great post, where will you invest next?

  • Real Estate Agent · Grand Rapids, MI · Member since 2016 · 251 posts · 224 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Kanwar Sodhi:

    @Sean Sloop

    Great post, where will you invest next?

    Hey Kanwar!

    Great question. I have a vision of my portfolio having diversification by a few markets. Some cashflow markets, some appreciation markets, some somehwere in the middle. 

    I am actively interested at the following:

    Lansing, MI
    Grand Rapids, MI & metro
    Twin Cities, MN

    Some places I would like to explore more:

    Des Moines, IA
    Omaha, NE
    Detroit, MI

  • Real Estate Agent · Lansing, MI · Member since 2016 · 143 posts · 78 votes
    6y

    Thanks for responding and taking the time!! I wish you the best of luck investing in my backyard.

  • Real Estate Agent · Lansing, MI. · Member since 2021 · 4 posts · 1 vote
    4y

    Interesting, @Sean Sloop thanks for the details. I own a duplex and single family in this area as well! Wondering how 2021 has played out for you?

  • Real Estate Agent · Grand Rapids, MI · Member since 2016 · 251 posts · 224 votes
    4y
    Originally posted by @Skyler Goodemoot:

    Interesting, @Sean Sloop thanks for the details. I own a duplex and single family in this area as well! Wondering how 2021 has played out for you?

    Hi Skyler, 

    2020-21 was a lot of growth in Lansing. I ended up partnering with a colleague of mine and we have purchased 15 units in Lansing (mostly BRRRR type properties with a handful that were more turnkey).

    I have also started investing in Grand Rapids as well. 

    Thanks for asking!

    Sean

  • Real Estate Agent · Lansing, MI. · Member since 2021 · 4 posts · 1 vote
    4y

    @Sean Sloop Wow, congratulations! Great work, Most of my rentals are on the outskirts of Lansing. We typically use the BRRRR method as well!

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