Who do I sue first?

Who do I sue first?

Investor · Miami, FL · Member since 2013 · 807 posts · 475 votes

I purchased a property in Dade County in 2013. The property was on the same parcel as another condominium building.

The purchase contract stated this in the additional terms-

“Seller, as a condition subsequent to closing, shall remove and sever the subject properties from the condominium regime.”

When I recently went to sell the building, the buyers attorney informed me the land was never separated from the condominium with the city. Furthermore the city will not allow the separation as it would not meet their size and setback requirements. The buyer therefor backed out of the sale.

After extensive investigation, it was discovered that the sellers attorney executed the separation of the property with the county but not with the city.

The city will not issue any permits for work on the property unless it rejoins the condominium association.

Rejoining the condominium could trigger them to ask for backpay of 7 years HOA dues. It will also reduce the value of the building as it will be tied to a HOA and have ongoing fees payable.

I am trying to decide the best course of action forward.

1. Make a claim with the title insurance company because I feel they never should have issued title insurance on the property to begin with. I am unsure if I can make a valid claim and would value any feedback here.

2. Request the seller and his attorney hire a zoning attorney to battle with the city and obtain a variance to allow the plot to be legalised.

3. Sue the seller alleging they had an intention of fraud. I would argue they were aware the city would not allow the separation due to the size and setbacks, hence they sold the property and said the severance would be done after the sale. I am not sure how much I would try to claim in damages though?

I purchased the building for 80k. Funds spent over the years adds up to 40k.

The recent contract I had to sell the building was for 150k.

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Specialist · Winter Springs, FL · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 747 votes
6y

The first thing you should do is submit a claim to the title insurance underwriter, not the agent that sold you the policy.  Assuming its a Florida Modified 2006 form ALTA policy the place to submit a claim should be found under Conditions 18 of the policy.  There may also be an online claims submission web site, try searching the underwriter's name and "claims" to see if you can find it.  I would also pull out a copy of your title policy and look at the legal description under Schedule A 4 and see how the property is described.  If it says a part of the condominium described in the declaration of condominium for XYZ Condominium as recorded in Official Record Book 1234, Page 5678, Public Records of Miami-Dade County I think there's a good chance there will also be an exception for the Dec of Condo on Schedule B and the underwriter will deny coverage because they insured the property as part of the condo.  If those two things are not there, it may be covered.

This sounds like it wasn't a run of the mill sale.  Were you represented by an attorney at closing?  If so I would immediately contact him/her.

If the release of the property was a condition of closing I would expect the settlement agent, who probably issued the policy, would have addressed the requirement so I would also contact them and ask how.  Along those lines, look at the title commitment that you should have received in advance of the closing and see if there is a Schedule B-1 requirement for the release from the Dec.  If its not there I suspect the policy will describe the property as above.

If it all goes south you're going to need a good real estate attorney to fix this.  I don't know what you paid but the repair probably won't be cheap.  If you need a referral I've retained an attorney in South Florida to fix many complex title related problems I'd be happy to refer you to.  Good luck. 

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  • Investor · Miami, FL · Member since 2013 · 807 posts · 475 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:
    Originally posted by @Nat C.:

    It is pretty complicated and this thread has become multi-faceted. In essence, we have been discussing the best way to resolve the issue of the illegal lot and if any parties can be held liable for the error.

  • San Jose, CA · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    6y

    After thinking about this, the only thing that I can think of is that somehow the parcels within the HOA are allowed to have different setbacks, etc. This still doesn't seem reasonable, but let's assume this for fun.

    If the easiest thing to do is just re-join the HOA, so you can build on the property, then why not?

    Since it was the owner/president of the HOA who screwed you, tell him you won't sue him if he forgives in writing any back HOA dues, and allows you to re-join the HOA, and he agrees in writing that in perpetuity you or any future owner of your property doesn't have to pay any dues.

    So, if it's paying HOA dues that is keeping your buyer away, if you make the above deal, it's no longer an issue. Seems like a fairly simple settlement solution. Just get a lawyer (a different one) to tell your old lawyer she has to pay your lawyer fees for working out this settlement with the seller/HOA prez, as your settlement with her for not suing her for fraud.

    If you do the above deal with the HOA prez, be sure and get it in writing and record it through the title insurance company or with the county/city clerk's office, so it's attached to the land/title.

  • Tom GimerBusiness Member
    DMV · Member since 2017 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    6y

    @Account Closed This situation doesn't involve an HOA. The property was part of a condominium.

    Also there isn't a hint of fraud here on the part of @Nat C.'s attorney.

    Gimer Law516 Reviews
  • Real Estate Professional · West Palm Beach, FL · Member since 2012 · 23k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Nat C.:
    Originally posted by @Clint Shelley:

    The property appraiser website shows the property on the same parcel as the condominium. Now that you mention it, I have no evidence to show that the county processed the separation, apart from the selling attorney telling me that.

    Creating my own HOA sounds like a sophisticated move. It would be nice to hear from others if this could be possible.

    @Wayne Brooks @Tom Gimer @Peter Walther

    Since the City doesn’t recognize it as a build able lot on it’s own, I don’t see that working  

  • Investor · Miami, FL · Member since 2013 · 807 posts · 475 votes
    6y

    @Wayne Brooks

    I thought about this logically after I posted the question and realised it wasn’t an option. Bless BiggerPockets: you can’t edit/delete something after you’ve already posted.

    For a moment I wondered if HOAs had different rules and land size requirements based on what the poster wrote but then I realised that was highly improbable.

  • Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y

    “Seller, as a condition subsequent to closing, shall remove and sever the subject properties from the condominium regime.”

    --------------------------------------------------

    Sounds like a straight forward breach of contract issue, with the breach occurring after closing. The contract has an implied term of a reasonable time after closing to get it done, and the seller didn't do it. What is the statute of limitations for breach of a written contract? Go to your lawyer immediately if not sooner.

  • Member since 2020 · 122 posts · 62 votes
    6y

    Your best option honestly is to keep the property. Barring that option the next best thing to do is to look back to the lot size and set back requirements when the property was built and ask for an in time enforcement, or what ever Florida calls it, if the property qualifies under those rules. That basically means they will use the rules from the time it was built or today.

    As for who to sue well obviously everyone involved. The point here is not to get them to admit they ****ed up but get enough of them to settle. You should as others said get a legal cost estimate and go with the highest one possible when setting the damages requested. I.e. what they are paying you will just be the costs to separate. They will settle of course but you can hopefully collect enough across all of the parties to make yourself “whole”.

  • Mike CumbieBusiness Member
    REALTOR® · Brockport, NY · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    6y

    I'm not a lawyer and just throwing things out there for discussion sake. The old "if it got to litigation", Based on my courtroom drama experiences on TV :)

    1) Is there a time frame for subsequent? Could: "Yup working on it" buy them another 20 years?

    2) Do you have to show "Actual damages"? Without it being on the market and actually sold in a free competitive market how do you show the actual loss?

    3) How does having 20K worth of un-permitted work effect the value? Becoming your loss not the previous owners? (Between the 100K and the 150K?

    4) How much does allowing it to sit vacant for 5 years effect the value? If you mitigated by performing the work or finding out earlier, what would your losses have been?

    Like I said, just questions for discussion. Hope it works out for you!

  • Specialist · Winter Springs, FL · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 747 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Tom Gimer:

    @Nat C. Whatever you do on pursuing legal action, it should be immediate. Like tomorrow.  Actions on contracts 5 years, on negligence 4 years (I may have those backwards)... either way both out of SOL currently and discovery rule is not favorable to those who are not paying attention. Good luck. 

    You're correct Tom but I believe in Florida the SOL for professional liability i.e. attorney malpractice, is two years. 

  • Member since 2020 · 4 posts · 0 votes
    6y

    Have you offered to sell your share back to the condo association?  

  • Specialist · Winter Springs, FL · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 747 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Nat C.:

    @Wayne Brooks

    I thought about this logically after I posted the question and realised it wasn’t an option. Bless BiggerPockets: you can’t edit/delete something after you’ve already posted.

    For a moment I wondered if HOAs had different rules and land size requirements based on what the poster wrote but then I realised that was highly improbable. 

    Nat, based on the property information you provided me I looked at the chain of title and understand what happened.  Since this topic seems to have become the subject of a lot of interest, do you mind if I lay it out here?

  • Member since 2018 · 26 posts · 12 votes
    6y

    I agree with another poster, suing would be a waste of time, energy, and LOTS of money for a MAYBE win. And even if you win who knows if the seller has any money to give. If I were you I would look into selling it as is and making a little money or breaking even in order to move on to bigger and better deals. 

  • JD MartinBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Matt M.:

    @Nat Chan

    You must have bad luck. This is the 2nd post of yours I’ve seen talking about suing someone.

    😂 Matt, you don't know the half of it. 

    Skyline Properties
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  • Real Estate Agent · Scottsdale, AZ · Member since 2019 · 448 posts · 320 votes
    6y

    Just wanted to add that while I'm sorry for the situation that the OP is dealing with, it's always a good day when I learn something,  This thread has been very interesting and informative.  Appreciate everyone's contributions.  

  • Member since 2019 · 15 posts · 1 vote
    6y

    It sounds like you are dealing with a power hungry code enforcement buffoon. 

    Honestly it seems simple. Does the city really want a vacant building just sitting there ? Once completed they will have 3 additional homes/residents paying local city taxes. They will also be able to reasses and increase the property taxes , etc...

    If I were you I would do everything in my own power to get a variance so the next buyer doesn't need to deal with this issue and you still make a money on the deal. There will be some sweet equity involved for you but you'll learn a lot.


    If it were me I'd do the following 

    1. Assuming you are on semi decent good terms, call up your local code enforcement and ask them what the process is to apply for a variance.

    2. Apply for a zoning / variance hearing 

    3. Since your building just looks like a plain rectangle and is essentially a shell just find pre-existing plans online that match your building dimensions and use them.

    4. Go to the zoning hearing, sell your property on what it will be and what your plans are to complete it.

    5. Once the variance is approved get the property sold or hold and complete the project yourself. 

    I've dealt with local cities on variances and zoning issues before myself and it's all a power grab on their part. Looking at the photos that's clearly a house or should be easily converted. Common sense will eventually win, just be persistent. Don't waste your time on lawyers , etc. 


  • Real Estate Agent · Princeton, NJ · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y

    @Nat Chan - Ideas

    1. Offer to sell it to the condo association for a new amenity buildout or something for the same contract price of $150k. See if any of the board members want a project. Maybe you can even owner finance it for them.

    2. IT’S WHO YOU KNOW— Dress up super nice and be very humble and/or waterworks sad and call/visit the County clerk, get them on your side, then go call/visit the city mayor, city administrator (often last longer than mayors), and get them to talk to the clerk/severing person for you. If you smile at the right people or get enough concerned citizens outraged then you can usually make injustices disappear.

    - I had a township change rules so I couldn’t dump construction debris in their free dump (you get 10 trips per year as part of $7000 in property taxes on a 200k home) and I had shown up in a loaded truck with my helper, while 7 months pregnant, and they turned me away. I emailed and called the town administrator and I got a call from an admin that said they’d cleared it and I could go dump my construction debris extra special. The guy at the dump was like they called and said you were special and to make it happen. I’m sorry for turning you away I was just following the new rules.

    So the lesson learned is to be humble, kind and ask for help. Don’t accept no for an answer. Say, I don’t understand, if the county clerk that records the DEEDS has this separated, it must be separated. What can be done to make the city records system right? The more you’re a squeaky wheel, the more they will want to make you go away. Don’t go away until you get what you need. Kindness and humility and coffee and donuts and cute outfits always help.

  • Attorney · Chicagoland · Member since 2019 · 103 posts · 90 votes
    6y

    @John Farady EXCELLENT comment.

    I see a statute issue too. Your claim is actually consumer fraud or misrepresentation, not breach. Typically that’s a 3 year claim.

    I second the idea to ask about an attorney’s hourly rate before you sit down. The task you put forward here is one that I think might require 8-10 hours of research. These questions are really outside the ability of someone to post a guesstimate on. I think, to be honest, this is the kind of case that makes it to appeals hearings or even the state Supreme Court. It’s a really strange issue that I bet has not been fully explored in the law.

  • Attorney · Chicagoland · Member since 2019 · 103 posts · 90 votes
    6y

    @Justin Abdilla I might have misread the earlier point before I read more comments on the post. I think I concur more that this is in professional negligence. I’ve done these as consumer fraud before, but that’s only against seller. If you’re attacking the title co then it’s definitely professional negligence.

    What a doozie.

  • Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y

    I don't know why people are talking about suing the other guy's lawyer. The lawyer didn't make a representation to you, nor does he have a contract with you. The SELLER has the contract with you. The SELLER made the representation. Maybe the seller has a case against his own lawyer, but that's HIS problem. You don't worry your pretty little head over it. YOU sue the SELLER.

    So now look for CONTRACT defenses by the seller. They are -- statute of limitations, -- bankruptcy, -- death, and it's too late to file a claim against his probate estate, -- Seller mental incapacity (and this one is a maybe).

    Then there are the business reasons not to sue. The are -- guy has no money, -- hassle, -- cheaper to work with city and get problem straightened out.

    In answer to the the original question, though, of who to sue first? There is only ONE person you can sue, the SELLER.

  • Real Estate Professional · West Palm Beach, FL · Member since 2012 · 23k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    6y

    @Natalie Schanne @Alex H. It may not have been clear from her post....this is not a code enforcement officer/issue, it is a building and zoning land use issue. She had a very connected surveyor, surveyors are an integral part of subdividing parcels, sit down with the City to explore variances/solutions. The City said no way no how, and it was the City who contacted the County to rescind any county level subdividing of the lot....the subdivision of the lot, or a variance, appears to be out of the question. 

  • Tom GimerBusiness Member
    DMV · Member since 2017 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    6y

    @John Clark Nobody suggested suing the other guy's attorney.

    The only potential defendants here are the seller, and the buyer's attorney and real estate broker. This absolutely should never have been an issue left open to resolve post-closing. It also shouldn't have taken this long to figure that out.

    Gimer Law516 Reviews
  • Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y

    "@Tom Gimer

    @John Clark Nobody suggested suing the other guy's attorney."

    Wrong. suit vs. attorney has always been a part of the discussion. Those people are wrong, too.
    Here :;;;;;;;;;;;;;

    "Think a lawsuit arguing breach of contract, and negligence on the part of the 1st attorney, Ms. ****, would be the best course of action. "

    ==========================

    The people who want to sue the seller's lawyer are wrong because he had no duty and no contract, with the buyer.

    SUE the SELLER if able!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y

    "Tom Gimer  The only potential defendants here are the seller, and the buyer's attorney and real estate broker. This absolutely should never have been an issue left open to resolve post-closing."

    =====================

    If the buyer wants to leave the issue open after closing the buyer's lawyer's duty is to counsel his client that the client is an eff****ing idiot. The buyer's lawyer's second duty is to paper his butt six ways to Sunday about all the ramifications of his client being an eff***ing idiot.

    That done, the buyer has no recourse against his own lawyer.

  • Investor · Miami, FL · Member since 2013 · 807 posts · 475 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Michael Heisterkamp:

    Your best option honestly is to keep the property. Barring that option the next best thing to do is to look back to the lot size and set back requirements when the property was built and ask for an in time enforcement, or what ever Florida calls it, if the property qualifies under those rules. That basically means they will use the rules from the time it was built or today.

    Great idea, Michael. I was thinking the same already; that I need to research was the size and setback requirements were and are now. I am not too sure how I can find historical regulations though. 

  • Investor · Miami, FL · Member since 2013 · 807 posts · 475 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Alex H.:

    It sounds like you are dealing with a power hungry code enforcement buffoon. 

    Honestly it seems simple. Does the city really want a vacant building just sitting there ? Once completed they will have 3 additional homes/residents paying local city taxes. They will also be able to reasses and increase the property taxes , etc...

    If I were you I would do everything in my own power to get a variance so the next buyer doesn't need to deal with this issue and you still make a money on the deal. There will be some sweet equity involved for you but you'll learn a lot.


    If it were me I'd do the following 

    1. Assuming you are on semi decent good terms, call up your local code enforcement and ask them what the process is to apply for a variance.

    2. Apply for a zoning / variance hearing 

    3. Since your building just looks like a plain rectangle and is essentially a shell just find pre-existing plans online that match your building dimensions and use them.

    4. Go to the zoning hearing, sell your property on what it will be and what your plans are to complete it.

    5. Once the variance is approved get the property sold or hold and complete the project yourself. 

    I've dealt with local cities on variances and zoning issues before myself and it's all a power grab on their part. Looking at the photos that's clearly a house or should be easily converted. Common sense will eventually win, just be persistent. Don't waste your time on lawyers , etc. 


    I agree with many of your points Alex and thank you for your advice. This city does have a bad reputation for being corrupt, difficult and money-hungry. Your ideas are based around common-sense prevailing. Unfortunately, that doesn't always happen. I too have dealt with various cities and their officials and I have to say that some of them are absolutely wonderful and have the sole goal of getting the neighborhoods cleaned up and in order. That is one of my greatest passions too; I love to revitalize areas that are in disrepair. So it's wonderful to work with a city when you both share the same vision. 

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