Real Estate Agent · Portland, OR · Member since 2013 · 412 posts · 219 votes
Hi all,
I'm curious if anyone has any experience buying and renting out houseboats? I know there are slip fees (if the slip isn't included in the purchase price) and I'd be shocked if there weren't some sort of HOA fee to pay for docks, walkways, garages, and depending on the marina utilities.
On the positive side, you get waterfront property and a unique draw for tenants. There is a fair amount of waterfront in Portland and a lot of sweet architecture on that waterfront. I don't see many of them come up for rent so don't have as much information to pull from.
@Bill Gulley - I know one of them is a commercial broker. She remarried an architect who drowned in a boating accident falling off of their boat. I think she's still single if you want to give it a shot. :)
Had a houseboat once and sold it. The guy that bought it was in a moorage where the owner of the moorage decided life would be better without houseboats and kicked them all out. Sail boats pose less hassles.
Imagine moving an old houseboat when finding new space is almost impossible.
Mathew Wray don't forget the danger of children falling in and going under the houseboat. Most legitimate brokers won't show places where children are involved. Is that a liability or what?
Jeff S. with enough houseboats you could make a 55+ community covenant and then you wouldn't have to worry about children falling in when showing the property. Of course you'd have to worry about senile elders doing the same thing! But seriously, did you rent the houseboat when you had it and if so were you able to charge a premium for the property?
Taylor Jennings I think it's an interesting idea too but, for the reasons Jeff stated and others I've encountered, it probably wont work (not that I'm giving up on it totally). I started looking into it because, A. I love houseboats, and B. they can be a fair amount cheaper than comparable properties in Portland.
I know Seattle has a bunch too...Are they as prevalent on the East Coast (why is Baltimore standing out in my head?)
Mathew Wray I don't know much about Portland, but is the water on a lake, river, public or private ? Having lived in Redding CA most of my life where we had Lake Shasta (365 miles of shoreline) there are a few marinas that hold the leases from the USFS, and control the boat slips. The kicker is that the USFS controls the number of houseboats allowed on the lake with the issuance of permits.
When times are good those permits are worth a fortune. People buy the junk houseboats in order to be able to purchase a newer houseboat and put on the lake, much like liquor licenses, etc.
You might check with whoever it is that regulates the water in the area where you are and find out all the rules and regulations associated with houseboats, and whether or not there's anything that prohibits private owners from renting their houseboats.
Sounds like a good idea to me! On Lake Shasta houseboats go for a few thousand a week during peak season.
Karen Margrave Thanks for the tip...I hadn't thought of them like liquor licenses. I think here in Portland its more of a free for all (within the confines of an established marina). There are two rivers (the Willamette and the Columbia) that both have a number of marinas on them. I haven't done a lot of thinking about vacation rentals but it could definitely be worth pursuing.
Zach Schwarzmiller Seattle is where I first fell in love in with houseboats. I used to kayak on Lake Union and even spent some time scuba diving under it. Anyway, it's good to know that someone is doing it!
Jeff S. Sorry you had such a bad experience. Maybe I can pick your brain at the meetup. I like the idea of owning the marina even more. I assume it'd be sort of like owning a mobile home park? Admittedly I know nothing about mobile home park ownership...
Great thinking Mathew! I am fairly new to RE investing and had not even thought about those. We have quite a few all the way down the river into Milwaukie area as well. I used to deliver Pizza to some house boats and they look really nice. I have to add my own two cents though...in the summer time...the spiders down by the river are HUGE....and I had a couple of times where I had to decide to battle critters to deliver pizza or go back to my car and have dinner. haha. I know, not really a selling point on a house...but personally I would never live in one for that simple reason.
Keep us posted if you decide to try it out though! It still sounds like it would be a nice niche to get into if it turns out to be the "cash cow" situation.
Hadn't thought of the critter factor! I'm still on the fence, seems like even if you own the slip you end up getting hosed on HOA fees. I really kinda am enamored with the idea of owning the whole marina. That's a project and a dream for the future though. Alas.
I have not personally had to deal with houseboats, but the idea is very interesting and creative) I'll have to think about it. Customers and the truth probably will not find here. See here may http://www.homepelf.com/.
I have a friend who owned a boatyard and marina on Cape Cod in MA. She owned the business but rented the land. She built the business up from not much to very profitable. Her lease came up and the owner of the land decided not to renew and to run the boatyard themselves. She lost her business. The owner benefited from all her hard work.
If you are going to own a marina, own the land not just the business.
The ideas that pop up here never surprise me anymore, LOL, a creative bunch.
Jeff made a good point, you'd want to own the marina or have a long term lease.
There is a reason houseboats rent for a grand plus a week, when a Detroit diesel 6/72 overhaul or a transmission can run around $15,000. Generators don't last forever either, they can add the same costs. A haul-out is a few thousand bucks. Last fall we spent over $2K for anchors and chain for a 50' Sundancer! A boat is a hole in the water in which you pour money.
If there aren't rentals in your area there probably aren't facilities to support them. You don't pull a 60' HB out with your F-350. Any overhead cranes around?
I believe you will need a captain's license to take anyone one out for hire, many want or will need a "driver". Not an easy license to get.
Boats will need to be USCG compliant and you'll have inspections, they aren't just checking for life jackets, it's a survey (like an appraisal or home inspection, but worse, like checking air cleaner connections, oil or water leaks, service records, etc.
HBs are specifically built for rental companies, I doubt you could buy a consumer boat used and put it in service cheaper than buying new and be compliant or economical for a merchant vessel. Check into Sunset HBs. I believe the manufactures are in the rental business, if it's feasible for a even a small fleet like 6, I'd say they'd already be there. Loving HBs is not near enough knowledge about the business of renting them.
If you want to dream about it check out the Cruiser & Sailing forums, they have HB forums about living aboard which will be about the same as rental use being occupied.
You'll change your mind after you research the boats in detail, find the maintenance and compliance issues, costs of operations, insurance, costs of moorings.....etc. A HB needs constant maintenance, daily checks for rentals. The only thing I can think of that might be worse would be leasing aircraft.
Everyone loves boats, of some kind, the two happiest days of a boat owners life is the day they buy it and the day they sell it. :)
Ann Bellamy Thanks for the tips...I really like the sleep afloat company model. Seems great, like a combination of vacation rentals and marinas although I'm coming more and more to have a healthy respect/caution for losing your hat by not being the owner.
Bill Gulley You definitely bring up great points about the cost of boat ownership...it's actually what dissuaded me from getting a live aboard when I first moved down to Portland. Although there is a big difference in the quality of houseboats here in Portland they are far more house than boat. They're not like a covered party boat so haul outs and motor repair aren't concern. And if it is, Portland has a large port and all the surrounding facilities catering to moorages and marine services. Although you're totally right, here are certainly concerns about floats and other maintenance issues. I used to run a dive shop in Seattle and we catered to a number of professional divers who specialized in just that kind of maintenance.
Here are some sweet examples of floating homes in Portland...these don't pencil out:
Sorry, couldn't go there. Saying "floats" I'm getting the idea that you aren't talking about a houseboat but floating homes, cabin style or bungalows built on a floating platform, different animal. ????? :)
Thanks for the tip Raymond B.! I'm sure that'll come in handy!
Bill Gulley, Yep! Those are the style and type I was talking about, but still a beast! Raymond showed me how to do links but I don't want to stray into an area where it looks like I'm trying to peddle a property so if you're interested google "Portland houseboats for sale" and you'll get a whole spectrum of properties. Thanks for your insights! I'm new to the site and have been amazed by the creativity and desire of our members to figure out ways to make a buck towards our futures as well as the patience and helpfulness of all the experts that are on the site helping out with their time and experience!
I know I'm jumping in late. I was pleased to search "houseboat" and find a forum. I just saw one for sale in Key West and love the idea of having it managed as a vacation rental. Does anyone know how to value a houseboat?
Every one I have ever talked to when it comes to owning a boat for every extra foot those four letters for boat stand for one thing only bust out another thousand. In Pittsburgh here we have a lot of boats, only 10% prob house boats only 7mth season. People pay for dock fees, storage fees, maintence, gas, etc. Everyone loves a boat but more of luxary I would personally believe as an expense rather than an asset. Resale value is always much less than what you orginally paid I see no appreciation value, only depreciation. (Def not an expert only personal opinion from people who I know who own).
When I came to the SF Bay area the first time I had this dream of living on a houseboat in Sausalito. I guess a lot of it was about being an outsider among a community of outsiders and thus not feeling so weird. ;-).
I even tried to buy this fixer upper houseboat from the estate of this super eccentric inventor. His floating home was a pyramid and had all kind of levels inside. Wasn't finished. Well my funds didn't come through in time and I couldn't buy. Last time I looked it was still not renovated.
What I found out is that the problem is that there's no dock space. People don't give up their slip and there's no new one built. The smallest spaces in Sausalito are + $ 1,000/month. People with big pockets buy some of the smaller homes for several hundred thousand and bring that home somewhere else and put their own, bigger home in. Then they offer those smaller homes inexpensively to people (except that you can't find a place where to bring it)
You can't just tie it up at any marina, as you need a 'live aboard' permit.
Don't know what's allowed to own your private marina. I only know of one in my area, which is an adventure in itself. It's in Point Richmond and you have to drive through abandoned Point Molatte , along the bay for about a mile and then go up a really, really rough 2 mile dirt road and when you come over the hill, you can look at this sleepy little 'pirate cove' that you want to swear you've seen in Pirates of the Caribbean ;-)
I've known people who live on boats in the Chesapeake Bay at Yacht Club Marinas. At the club there is a dining facility, kitchen and bar and frequent entertainment. They didn't have a house boat but an actual boat they used to travel all over the bay. some people even took their boats to FL in the winter via the inter-coastal waterway.
I know I'm jumping in late. I was pleased to search "houseboat" and find a forum. I just saw one for sale in Key West and love the idea of having it managed as a vacation rental. Does anyone know how to value a houseboat?
Yep, comparable sales, ask the marina owners, replacement costs new less depreciation, as a rental include the income approach.
RE appraisers may do floating homes and docks, but if you have USCG compliance appraisers don't go there unless the hold certifications.
watercraft are appraised by "surveyors" not land surveyors but nautical types. Charges run by the foot usually. 50' can run 2,500-3000 for certified surveys for seaworthiness (which means they will float in this case). :)