Just Closed On 36 Acres!!! - Glampground
Member since 2020 · 11 posts · 13 votes
Just Closed On 36 Acres!!! - Glampground
Most Popular Reply
Severna Park, MD · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
4yA camp just for adults will flop on its face . Camping is a family affair . Engineering , store , pool pond , roads , water, sewer , electric . You may have your own sewage treatment plant .you will need to buy a large tractor with loader, a small dump truck , lawn equipment , golf carts for employees to get around .Build a house or 2 for management to live in . You are looking at a couple years in permits and planning . You will have a couple million invested . In new Jersey you will run Mid March thru the first week of November . Let me know when you open , I will drag my RV there for the weekend .
My neighbor is a Civil engineer , he ran the numbers for a guy 15 years ago , a basic campground improvements cost $75K per site ( not including the land )
44 Replies
- 4yBruce WoodruffPro MemberContractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
Originally posted by @Marcus Coleman:
@Marcus Coleman man i spoke too soon on my last comment about “the hate” and can’t delete my comment. All feedback should be considered constructive and accepted for at least consideration. Eat the meat and spit out the bones.
We know you didn't mean hate literally...... :-)
- Member since 2019 · 12 posts · 6 votes4y
@Nik Moushon wow. Good sound advice and analysis
- Member since 2019 · 12 posts · 6 votes4y
This made me look up what 36 acres is going for here in Ohio — saw a lot that just sold here in Ohio - (Medina County) that went for $239,000 taxes were only $483 wow
- 4yWale LawalBusiness MemberReal Estate Broker · Houston | Dallas | Austin, TX · Member since 2018 · 5k+ posts · 2k+ votes
Congratulations! People travel for the experience; this is what is trending. As long as you provide that, you’ll be okay.
NETWORTH BUILDERS5236 Reviews - Specialist · Midland, TX · Member since 2018 · 198 posts · 148 votes4y
-insert MJ popcorn meme-
Hope you kill it. LOL @Jay Hinrichs "sounds like the clothing optional places" was exactly what I was thinking.
No kids/pets isn't my cup of tea personally (I could field my own soccer team and my bird dog is my BFF, LOL), but I can totally see the attraction. If it's for RV camping as well, the no pets will be a hard sell, coming from a frequent RV camper. Many many many couples that travel without kids have small dogs or cats they bring with them to glampgrounds. But if it's no RVs, just cabins and such, different demographic and different story.
Good luck, hope you kill it!
- Architect · Wenatchee, WA · Member since 2018 · 843 posts · 907 votes4y
Originally posted by @Dante Fortson:
At the end of the day, I'm almost certain that most of the people in this thread have NEVER been to Vegas. Most of the city activities are 18+ and I don't see any shortage of tourism. To say a no kids and no pets business model won't work is absurd.
Slot machines are nothing more than adult arcades and the hotel rooms are in most cases nothing more than glorified studio apartments. Try getting one during a convention.
No kids and no pets is a PROVEN business model that works.
Convincing 18 couples on the WHOLE planet to rent a tent is easy money. Especially when you have an extensive background in sales and marketing like I do.
Doubt all you'd like, but marketing is the reason there are people buying $1,000 phones even though there are $200 phones that do the same thing.
A project like this is all about PERCEPTION more than price.
How much did people pay to be packed into small tents at EDC? Over $600 per person.
A pool, live music, and giving away free stays to specific YouTubers makes this more of a lifestyle type of thing than just a basic glamping trip.
Easy money all day every day.
I don't understand your thinking here. You keep referring to the "adults only" crowd that is in Vegas as the same group of people you are targeting. That if it works in Vegas, it will work for you. But you are not in Vegas. You are an hour outside a Vegas. Who wants to go to Vegas to do "adults only" types of things and have to drive an hour to their bed at 2am after drinking all day? If you really think that you can compete with taking the "adults only" crowd away Vegas in enough number to support and recoup the massive amounts of cash that you are dumping into this.
Did you actually do a pre-application meeting with the County before you bought the land? Do you know if you even meet all the zoning codes for all the different business types you are proposing on one parcel of land? Do you know if you can get a liquor license for your place?Did you have any educated professional do any research for you on any of this or was this all on your own?
Yes, Apple can charge $1000 for a phone because they have spent decades produce a BRAND NAME that is known WORLD WIDE and has a WORLD WIDE buyer. Its also a product that the user gets to keep and use on a daily basis. You have none of that. So to say that since Apple can do it, you can do it? Is whats absurd.
Just because you have a bible thumping youtube page does not translate into a mass following on a youtube page on glamping. In fact, after finding several youtube videos titled "The Cult of Dante Fortson #Survival Story" and other along the same lines....tells me enough.I'm done here.
- Real Estate Broker · Santa Ana CA [South Coast Metro] · Member since 2016 · 459 posts · 202 votes4y
Interesting Idea
[my 2 cents in brackets]
I guess I'll address this in points.
1) It's a GLAMPGROUND not a campground. It's also 1 hour from Vegas... and you obviously have no clue that its a tourist capital. Tons of locals like to get away without their kids. Almost everything in Vegas is anti kid and anti pet... and yet business is BOOMING. -
[if the property is in Parump - I know it well,I used to have a client/friend that had a brothel and winery there[no connection anyh longer] - so there is some higher end dollars out there. and this was over 20 years ago. I think there is still some lower demographics to factor in - for you are not going to target locally - hit it up on Airnbn and the more offbeat and like you were saying destination based is the key. One big factor no one mentioned is lack of ammenities in town and how friggin hot it is out there. I think to have year round you have to solve the AC issue - maybe solar and more of a yurt type of thing or even a geo dome etc. more rigid structure etc.]
Pahrump is far enough away for it to feel like a vacation, but close enough so they can get home in an emergency.
2) Just because you are incapable of succeeding with something like this doesn't mean I am. I've already considered infrastructure costs and already have several investors interested in the idea, which we plan to role out in phases.
[its more than costs - its feasibility and marketing and offer a unique proposition]
3) Campsites make $25 - $50 per spot per night... but Glampsites make $200 - $500 per night. I'm not in this to collect pennies.
go airbnb - make an all encompasing destination and some value add etc to make unique. maybe target large groups to have a retreat etc companies, or church groups etc. or like others said more secular etc]4) I have a youtube channel with over 20k subscribers and mailing list built over years with 30k+ subscribers that buy my books, content, etc. I also know other YouTubers willing to promote it.
[text the link, will check out. go all out on FB and email lists to build interest]
5) I made a lot of money in crypto over the last year and most of the money that will be put up is my own.
6) I will also be placing 12 Helium (HNT) miners across the property to mine HNT coins 24/7. Estimated income based on our 11 current miners is roughly $5,000+ per month whether we book a single site or not.
[is the cost of electricity the determining factor for adding crypto? if so can you just focus on a solar farm with underground miners etc [to keep cpu's cooler etc.] - is that a feasible enough project - add eth or solano etc to expand etc. I like the crypto angle and if you really know it then could be intersting concept on its own. I would try to simiply the offering by telling investors its a glamping and subsidized by crypto mining then they might get confused. simpler the better in my book. if you had a way to scale the crypto to a solar farm and some kind of sustainable housing and have some kind of conference or meet up etc. ]
7) Our first 18 Glampsites will be fully paid for out of pocket and the land only costs $1700 per month, which I only owe $149k more on. No worries on losing the land and since the first 18 sites will be free and clear... no ongoing loan overhead for those.
[can you develop with some kind of tiny home communitity and subdivide as a tenant in common or co-op - give owners a stake in the project and do seller finance and keep the difference in mortgage payment -ie create equity through higher sales price with seller financing etc - big need for non traditional financing etc.]
8. We plan to rent those 18 spaces out for $200 per night each. Only booking 10 days out of 30 gives us $36,000 per month. $36,000 + $5,000 = $41,000 per month gross. Not counting staff and upkeep... still only $1,700 per month out of pocket until the land is paid off. Also, these first 18 will be on a 6 acre themed section of the land. We'll be using the profits from this section to build the 1 acre wedding venue, which we'll charge $2,500 for 6 hours. Another $25,000 per month if we only book for 10 days.
[hmm, fully furnished and with theme and such to get those figures at $200 per night. I have a few airbnbs and rent at a decent rate and 100% full, I offer really cute options and add value etc. 66% vacancy is alot, lower the price and have higher occupancy, go for long term value and increase to get traction.] If I am coming from CA and can go glamping or go to the strip and rent a hotel for $125 per night I would have to really feel the experience is unique and add value. and again no A/C - huge deal breaker]
9) We're going into this assuming our sites will only be booked 1/3 of the time.
We've already calculated landscaping, pools, bathroom, staff, etc. We've worked this out in phases. We know what we'll be adding from Phase 1 til finished. My friends and family are already on board to invest even though I don't usually mix biz and personal.
I also make over 6 figures a year outside of crypto because I have royalties constantly incoming along with other sources of income. The thing you don't know is that I'm big on owning my stuff outright. Real estate I'm willing to buy with loans and let other people pay those loans off for me. What I won't do is take out loans to fund the building of the land, which is why people end up in financial trouble. People are welcome to invest, but I won't borrow.
[syndicate or crowdfunding could work]
There's always going to be negative people that think they know what complete strangers are and are not capable of making work. You're one of those people I see. You literally know nothing other than what you've read and think you have the full picture. You don't.
I was asking for advice and saying "this will never work" is not advice at all. If you wanna be helpful, then please feel free. If you just came to be negative I'll pray for you because there is clearly something wrong in your personal life if you jump on here just to spread discouragement based on your in inabilities to make things work.
God bless.
[perseverance and focus and a good value is what you need to make this work. Furnished rentals and airbnb have changed the metrics. Keep pushing and keep us posted]
- Real Estate Broker · Santa Ana CA [South Coast Metro] · Member since 2016 · 459 posts · 202 votes4y
https://tinylifeconsulting.com...
Domes are my jam!!
Here is a property I sold and wish I could of bought it! https://30522hunkydorylane.com...
target as an alien experience - night under the stars etc
look under the stars and have a mini conference
bring in some Roswell artifacts or a big ufo etc
make it off the beaten road and something unique
- 4yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Originally posted by @Nik Moushon:
Originally posted by @Dante Fortson:
At the end of the day, I'm almost certain that most of the people in this thread have NEVER been to Vegas. Most of the city activities are 18+ and I don't see any shortage of tourism. To say a no kids and no pets business model won't work is absurd.
Slot machines are nothing more than adult arcades and the hotel rooms are in most cases nothing more than glorified studio apartments. Try getting one during a convention.
No kids and no pets is a PROVEN business model that works.
Convincing 18 couples on the WHOLE planet to rent a tent is easy money. Especially when you have an extensive background in sales and marketing like I do.
Doubt all you'd like, but marketing is the reason there are people buying $1,000 phones even though there are $200 phones that do the same thing.
A project like this is all about PERCEPTION more than price.
How much did people pay to be packed into small tents at EDC? Over $600 per person.
A pool, live music, and giving away free stays to specific YouTubers makes this more of a lifestyle type of thing than just a basic glamping trip.
Easy money all day every day.
I don't understand your thinking here. You keep referring to the "adults only" crowd that is in Vegas as the same group of people you are targeting. That if it works in Vegas, it will work for you. But you are not in Vegas. You are an hour outside a Vegas. Who wants to go to Vegas to do "adults only" types of things and have to drive an hour to their bed at 2am after drinking all day? If you really think that you can compete with taking the "adults only" crowd away Vegas in enough number to support and recoup the massive amounts of cash that you are dumping into this.
Did you actually do a pre-application meeting with the County before you bought the land? Do you know if you even meet all the zoning codes for all the different business types you are proposing on one parcel of land? Do you know if you can get a liquor license for your place?Did you have any educated professional do any research for you on any of this or was this all on your own?
Yes, Apple can charge $1000 for a phone because they have spent decades produce a BRAND NAME that is known WORLD WIDE and has a WORLD WIDE buyer. Its also a product that the user gets to keep and use on a daily basis. You have none of that. So to say that since Apple can do it, you can do it? Is whats absurd.
Just because you have a bible thumping youtube page does not translate into a mass following on a youtube page on glamping. In fact, after finding several youtube videos titled "The Cult of Dante Fortson #Survival Story" and other along the same lines....tells me enough.I'm done here.
Vegas is NOT adult only by any stretch they have been going for the family dollars for years.. think circus circus.. there are all sorts of family attractions in Vegas Strip.. LOTS of kids.. so to think Vegas is adult only is really not at all correct.. granted there is adult only and a lot of it.. but there are activities for all groups not just adults.. Maybe out in the establishments in Phrump which well you know what those are.
- Rental Property Investor · Chicago and mainly invests in KS remotely · Member since 2018 · 360 posts · 314 votes4y
I read most of this discussion. You have a lot of faith in this project and said very little about your business plan, so I think it’s far more complicated than you think. I hope you also have a lot of cash. Good luck because I think you will most definitely need it.
- Real Estate Broker · Member since 2017 · 90 posts · 30 votes4y
@Dante Fortson
Lots of responses. I didn’t get all the way to the bottom. Glamping is bonafide. I have a friend that is jumping into it and has discussed getting me into his operation. Sounds like you’ve considered a lot of ideas. One of things we’ve learned from another operator and plenty of campgrounds is the idea of partnering with someone as a host. They stay on property and help with operation and hospitality. Not sure if that was mentioned already but thought we could use a quick easy one to break up some of bickering.
Best wishes! Send me a link to your YouTube channel!
Nobody goes to Electric Daisy, Coachella or Stagecoach for the tent. They go for the show and the ambiance. They pay $600 for the tent because they don't want to leave the party.
Burning Man they spend $Thousands to be at the party. If you can make your glamping experience a "must-experience" party you'll probably do well.
In the short term, you are very likely to have a moderate number of guests looking for exactly what you would want (birds of a feather flocking together, flavor of the moment, and all that). Over the long term, maybe consider some "specialty" weeks. Golden Door Spa does that -- there are "men only" and "women only" sessions (which just seem like a very, very expensive sort of adult summer camp to me, but whatever). Maybe you could be no-pets most of the time, but have a couple of "pets welcome" weeks in the winter (110 degrees +dogs isn't a good combo anyhow). Maybe "no kids" most of the time, but "tweens-to-teens allowed" last weekend of August or Easter. That would be especially easy if you already have themed zones -- allow teens in one area (they would all rather be together anyhow), or batch by age. That's one of the busiest times for family vacations, as everyone who procrastinated tries to get that last family vacation in before school starts. Having an age limit would eliminate dealing with screaming toddlers or 5 year-olds having melt-downs.You might have a "buy out the campground" option for groups of friends, especially mid-week, and while you are still starting up. If you have excellent wifi, the Covid "work-ation" has been getting pitched a lot at some of the higher-end 5-star resorts.
I'd also look at other similar areas (Joshua Tree) and see what has and hasn't worked. Transport will be another consideration, at least short term. Rental cars are insane right now. Over the past few months I've been dealing with quotes of $4-500/day in places like Austin and PHX, and then, "actually, and no, we don't have any", even at that ridiculous price. I ended up with a UHaul van.
- 4yMarc RiceBusiness MemberReal Estate Agent · Columbus Cleveland Dayton, OH · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
This is great, my business partner and myself are about to buy 60 acres in western NC and working on another 30 acre plot nearby. Would love to follow your journey if you post on social media or anywhere for updates @Evan W.
Marc Rice | Investor Friendly Agent at Reafco Tailwind Team574 Reviews - 4yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Originally posted by @Deanna O.:
Nobody goes to Electric Daisy, Coachella or Stagecoach for the tent. They go for the show and the ambiance. They pay $600 for the tent because they don't want to leave the party.
Burning Man they spend $Thousands to be at the party. If you can make your glamping experience a "must-experience" party you'll probably do well.
In the short term, you are very likely to have a moderate number of guests looking for exactly what you would want (birds of a feather flocking together, flavor of the moment, and all that). Over the long term, maybe consider some "specialty" weeks. Golden Door Spa does that -- there are "men only" and "women only" sessions (which just seem like a very, very expensive sort of adult summer camp to me, but whatever). Maybe you could be no-pets most of the time, but have a couple of "pets welcome" weeks in the winter (110 degrees +dogs isn't a good combo anyhow). Maybe "no kids" most of the time, but "tweens-to-teens allowed" last weekend of August or Easter. That would be especially easy if you already have themed zones -- allow teens in one area (they would all rather be together anyhow), or batch by age. That's one of the busiest times for family vacations, as everyone who procrastinated tries to get that last family vacation in before school starts. Having an age limit would eliminate dealing with screaming toddlers or 5 year-olds having melt-downs.You might have a "buy out the campground" option for groups of friends, especially mid-week, and while you are still starting up. If you have excellent wifi, the Covid "work-ation" has been getting pitched a lot at some of the higher-end 5-star resorts.
I'd also look at other similar areas (Joshua Tree) and see what has and hasn't worked. Transport will be another consideration, at least short term. Rental cars are insane right now. Over the past few months I've been dealing with quotes of $4-500/day in places like Austin and PHX, and then, "actually, and no, we don't have any", even at that ridiculous price. I ended up with a UHaul van.
I ran into that in San JOse and did my first Turo rental that worked well brand new prius for 90 bucks and he picked me up at the airport and dropped me off. five star.
I just did Lyft for 3 of the trips, and rented a Uhaul for the 4th one. I needed the space for gear anyhow, and ended up paying about $108 for the Uhaul, and $60 for the trips to and from the airport. Lyft saves a ton of time vs rental car at the airport, and several of my flights were timed pretty close on time. Turo was running $400-ish, and was sketchy about insurance coverage (this was a work trip).
- Real Estate Agent · Sisters, OR · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes4y
Of all of the nudist camps you have been two which do recommend the most? LOL
FYI I have new investment idea in case you want to get on the ground floor naked zip lining. I'm going to kill it!
- 4yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Originally posted by @Eric Bilderback:
Of all of the nudist camps you have been two which do recommend the most? LOL
FYI I have new investment idea in case you want to get on the ground floor naked zip lining. I'm going to kill it!
Wilbur hot springs Harbin hot springs and many up in the mountains that open range land like Crabtree .. And really like the one in Markleeville but thats just hot springs.
my zip line project we were going to co brand with Wineries in Yamhill county since that is where our tree farm was located.. We were going to call it Zip and Sip.. Zip first sip later. It could have been epic really. but 2010 was not the time.. still mired in deep real estate re treat as we all know at least those of us that had a lot of real estate NOT all markets but many were deeply affected by the 08 to 2012 melt down and credit freeze.
- Real Estate Agent · Pasadena, CA · Member since 2017 · 276 posts · 255 votes4y
Originally posted by @Dante Fortson:
@Bud Gaffney thanks.
@Account Closed thanks. My zoning is RH 9.5 and the campground requires a special use permit along with a site plan, which I already have in the works via Fiverr. I plan to have different experiences in each section of the camp, which include themed sections.
@Scott Mac that's exactly what I plan to do but without projectiles. I thought about bows and guns, but seems like a huge liability risk, but the rest is cool.
The direction I'm going in is camp for adults. No kids at all. The pond is definitely on the list, but I'm thinking 10 feet deep with clear canoe rentals so they can see the fish swim under them. Also snorkeling, basketball, tennis, etc.I'll include the shower in the price so they don't feel like I'm nickel and diming them.
Entertainment is a great idea. I hadn't thought about that.I have never seen "RH" zoning in SB County, ever. Are you sure? What is that?
- Tempe, AZ · Member since 2016 · 17 posts · 11 votes4y
Quote from @Dante Fortson:
@Bud Gaffney thanks.
@Account Closed thanks. My zoning is RH 9.5 and the campground requires a special use permit along with a site plan, which I already have in the works via Fiverr. I plan to have different experiences in each section of the camp, which include themed sections.
@Scott Mac that's exactly what I plan to do but without projectiles. I thought about bows and guns, but seems like a huge liability risk, but the rest is cool.
The direction I'm going in is camp for adults. No kids at all. The pond is definitely on the list, but I'm thinking 10 feet deep with clear canoe rentals so they can see the fish swim under them. Also snorkeling, basketball, tennis, etc.I'll include the shower in the price so they don't feel like I'm nickel and diming them.
Entertainment is a great idea. I hadn't thought about that.Hey Dante, congrats on the land purchase, we're working on a glamping development in northern AZ so not too far away! Our project involves two cabins and twelve glamping sites and I love when I see people who are excited about this space!
I've read through everything on this thread and just want to offer my genuine advice having been working through our project for almost a year and a half and being a few steps ahead of you, please don't take any of this as negative, my intent is to be helpful. I don't know anything about your area, adopted zoning or codes and what's required but seeing as your project is much larger than ours, will easily be a multi-million dollar development and take a significant amount of time to develop, I would highly suggest you bring on a full blown team to help you through development. Eventually, you will have to do this anyway and the earlier you can get this put together the better. This is true land development and the fact that you are having someone from Fiverr develop your site plan suggests that you don't quite know what you are getting into, I have a feeling this is why some people on here are doubting you.
Someone else suggested it but if you haven't already, hire a professional to go through a feasibility study and develop anticipated construction costs so that you have a good estimate of what this will cost, if everything you want is allowed, and if it will be profitable (making $200 per night per site doesn't necessarily make it profitable). Do this before getting the rest of your team of professionals put together as this step may alter your plans altogether. It sounds like you've planned out quite a bit of the larger picture of what you're allowed to do but paying someone to work out the details now can save you a lot of headache later.
One last piece of advice. I know you mention that everyone on here doubting you doesn't understand but you should take their critiques seriously as they are taking time out of their day to offer advice based on their experience. The largest critic I see on this thread, @Nik Moushonsays he has 10 plus years experience working as a (I assume) commercial architect. If that's the case, he has been involved in the development of a lot of commercial property and I think you would be wise to take what he says seriously. Honestly, this could be a big project that's very successful, just make sure you put the systems in place to make it that way, good luck and let me know when you're up and running!
Join the conversationCreate a free account to reply, vote on answers and follow this thread.