2 Quick CCIM Questions

15 Replies

Just 2 quick questions.

  1. If I went to go get my CCIM license, after I got it, could I go work for a company listing commercial real estate, or would I also need to get my Realtors License as well? I fully want to stay commercial and have no intention of getting into listing residential.
  2. Besides just listing commercial real estate, what other benefits are there to get my CCIM license?

Thanks

@Karma Senge

Normally it is done the other way. Folks do get an RE sales License and start broker commercial props then "upgrade" to CCIM certification to look good.

I am not saying CCIM is not useful, but unless you plan to broker for other people, the "secrets" of a CCIM courses can be picked up by reading books from the Urban Institute and others...

I just looked at your long term goals, which includes of owning 1000's of rental units. I could be wrong but I believe brokering commercial or other deals might just be a destruction for you from reaching your goals!

Have you heard of the Gerry Keller's Book The Millionaire R.E. Investor. IMHO If you just implement what's in the book, step by step you can get to your goals faster than with getting distructed with brokering.

Disclamer: I have an RE licence as well but I mostly use it to broker properties that are great investment deals but do not feet my "buy and hold" niche"

Ps, I would be curios to see what

@Joel Owens thinks of CCIM certification.

Good Luck!

I can't see any one book, much less a guru book, provide anything near the educational materials contained in obtaining the CCIM designation.

The CCIM isn't a license it's a designation, you need a RE license to conduct commercial transactions. Now, some states provide exemptions from classes based on other education, requirements will vary.

I did not take any of the CCIM courses, my degrees were beyond the curriculum of the RE courses, it would have only given me letters for my business cards and a lapel pen. listing, selling or managing commercial properties was never a primary concern.

When licensees consider going into a niche, like commercial, I'd suggest you look at the market first and see what the potential might be. The CCIM can take a couple years, it will cost you money and time.

Just as someone might assess the need for an MBA or a CPA, will the degree advance their goals? Same with RE designations. I'm all for formal education paths but you need to consider the goals too.

I mention this because in my area there are several commercial brokers. It's a very tight market, very competitive and the old guys pretty much have that niche tied up, you'd starve trying to break in on your own, sometimes experienced brokers and attorneys are just the known, go-to brokers, convincing a larger corporation to jump ship and go with a new broker would be like banging your head on a wall, IMO.

Most commercial brokers want experience, not green from any school as there is a difference from the classroom and reality. You can get hired by C brokers with training, you'll likely be placed with an experienced broker for street training. It can be a very good profession, but I'd suggest at least a bachelor's degree in business, accounting, finance or economics. Much of the CCIM is finance, having a degree will make things easier.

Really depends on your area, state requirements and market. There are some that have moved into commercial that have very little formal training and they learn on the run by doing. That can happen when there is less competition, they may think there is competition but if there are really big bucks involved, those deals usually go to bigger operators with sufficient experience. Just saying, know where you're headed, who controls that market and what the future holds in that market. :)

@Bill Gulley The Urban Land Institute or ULI is not a "guru"program, they publish books on Multi-unit Apartment Dev/Management and other subject areas for non profit and for-profit organizations. Basically some of the same ones CCMI uses. Also here in Baltimore the JHU (Johns Hopkins) Business school also uses some of these same books for their Graduate Degree in their R.E. Development program.......

All i was trying to say that depending on the individual some one could just spend $200 on ebay and get these books, that could help them evaluate commercial properties on a similar if not better level than a person with a CCIM certification. My mentor who was/is a broker/investor for over 30 years and a CCIM certified, Leadership graduate etc.... said the same thing: "many of these designations are just for show to impress clients in the broker community"

Since the field is so competitive (like you said it above) they the "status quo" do come up with various designators so the folks with the money and or experience can remain on the top......

Originally posted by @Val Csontos :
@Karma Senge

I could be wrong but I believe brokering commercial or other deals might just be a destruction for you from reaching your goals!

how so?

As Bill said a CCIM designation is not a "license" it is a credential. The CCIM program is outstanding eduction in the commercial field. Their is none better.

The benefit is understanding REI analysis at a very deep level. They cover things that are just not on the radar of the typical Guru. Things like IRR, NPV, market analysis, etc are covered in depth. There is no better training in the commercial field.

Originally posted by @Val Csontos :
@Bill Gulley The Urban Land Institute or ULI is not a "guru"program, they publish books on Multi-unit Apartment Dev/Management and other subject areas for non profit and for-profit organizations. Basically some of the same ones CCMI uses. Also here in Baltimore the JHU (Johns Hopkins) Business school also uses some of these same books for their Graduate Degree in their R.E. Development program.......

Val, I've seen some of this material and it is good, one of the planners has materials in our P&Z office. My comment above was not in reference to ULI, but I've not seen the "Millionaire" book, regardless no one book would cover the material taught through the CCIM program.

There was a recent post about RE education, wish I had saved it for reference, but there are some universities with free on line classes in finance, accounting, economics and I believe some RE subjects. Highly suggest serious investors check such courses out.

Commercial takes in such a large swath of types of RE that specialization is really necessary. We all speak in terms of housing here on BP, but there is retail, office, industrial and manufacturing, mining, agricultural, recreational, hospitality, utility, government and special use properties such as airports and harbors. Saying "commercial" can mean many things. :)

There is no free lunch out there.

I challenge anyone to find a field where there is not competition to be the best and top earners in that field.

The key is if you enjoy what you do. There are underserved niches in commercial real estate. For instance many of my clients have money but need help understanding how it all works so I spend a bunch of time educating them and we form a relationship going forward.

The bigger firms tend to set up broker/agent teams and they push listings from large corp. clients. They want to sell to professional buyers to push volume. If you called them and said I have 1 million cash to invest in commercial but have never bought before and do not understand the process many wouldn't give you the time of day. They realize what it will take to educate and the work involved before finding the property and putting offers in.

So personally I do not try to compete with the billion dollar companies out there. Occasionally I will land some larger corp. business but it's not my mainstay. The CCIM is just a third party course that has nothing to do with licensing and transacting for commissions. There is plenty of business in commercial real estate.

@Bill Gulley

@Karma Senge i've taken the full set of CCIM courses and am not a broker. i invest in commercial, had a need to understand commercial more deeply, and found CCIM to offer comprehensive deep level commercial RE education.

as @Joel Owens mentioned, if you don't understand commercial, it may be hard to move a conversation forward with some brokers. on the other hand, if you understand commercial investments deeply, can speak their language, etc, you can hold a brokers attention. same holds true when working with bankers…the good ones know if you know your stuff. i've found knowing principles taught in CCIM helped me tremendously when working with both with brokers and bankers.

@Bill Gulley I looked at @Karma Senge 's RE investing goals and in there he had said he would like to owe 1000s of units in next 10 years or so.

So when i responded to him about his carrier move question, in regards to Comm RE. brokering, I suggested:

Instead of worrying about, brokering commercial properties for other folks he could just really focus on to take his investment portfolio from a Ma' and Pa's to the next level

Gary Keller's book is sort of a how to book on evolving in to a large investor from the small time one's.

For example, it includes detailed interviews, DOs/DONTs and investing habits of about a hundred highly successful self made large investors in the USA. The book is close to 10 years old and if you Google on those guys/gals they are still around and investing, so that is why I highly recommend the book!

Of course there are many books out there but this comes in mind the most for what Karma is trying to achieve.

@Tony Nguyen

Lead generating is a Big One for "distraction" in regards to achieving your investment goals !

IMHO If you broker for other people, you will lead generate for your clients mostly because you are motivated by the commission you will receive, and you might not put enough effort on your own investment needs as you would otherwise if you were an investor only.

Wow, thank you all for some great responses. Honestly, I was just curious about CCIM from an informational standpoint. I am always looking to boost my knowledge of commercial re. As far as licensing is concerned, I still might get my license, but I have no intention of being a sales person for a broker. I would get my license to have access to the MLS and to not leave money on the table should something come up and I could have made extra money had I been licensed.Thats it. I hope that made sense.

@Val Csontos , I will check out the Gerry Keller's Book The Millionaire R.E. Investor. Thanks.

Val, no need to defend your opinion of Gary Keller or your suggestion of the book, it may be interesting, it may have some good points or view or tips or stories, such books are popular with investors. At least that's how I'm seeing it mentioning it three times now.

This site is rather anti-guru, tons of opinions and comments as well opinions on what a guru is. It's fairly accepted I'd say that such information can be helpful giving ideas and strategies or even entertainment, it's just that investors should not rely on such as all RE is local and due diligence is still required.

Most readers here know that I do not see books by unqualified authors lacking formal credentials as educational information, some exceptions, but generally. If a book is more to a technical writing as you would find in a curriculum at a university that is what I'd consider educational. If a book ventures off on "I did this, I did that, this is how you can, this is how Joe did" it usually falls in an informative but informal, often opinionated writing that isn't really a technical writing that can be relied upon.

My point was, that no one book could possibly cover the material introduced in the program mentioned.

I don't know Gary or his book, I'm not even referring to him as a guru specifically. From your description it sounds to me like a casual read, much like reading a book on Henry Ford or Eli Whitney or other successful people, probably not the text used as the curricula for a business class at the Chicago School of Business or Harvard..

Moving to the level where our OP is striving to attain I'd say he needs to concentrate more to graduate level classes, analytical studies, modeling, market testing, analytical finance and economics. Successful entrepreneurship is very much about looking into the future. Historic information and the physiological views of those before us may lay some foundation but trying to replicate what others did ten years ago usually can't be done exactly as they did. You need to adapt conventional thinking as a basis to creative aspects that are acceptable and appropriate in RE.

That is much of the issue with "guru" books, the schemes described can't really be replicated as the author may have accomplished with any success, if they really did or not. Real estate simply is not a widget factory, every single transaction will be different, none are the same, they may be similar but never the same. Market influences will never be the same, properties are unique, use of funds of one investor will be different than another, yet investors seem to get excited about doing something someone else did or claimed to do.

Just saying, there is no substitute for formal or conventional knowledge to base any business strategy on. Just IMO. And, not much to comment to today, LOL :)

@Bill

@Bill Gulley undefined

MHO these books are not GURU books

http://www.amazon.com/Gary-Keller/e/B001IGQM4S/ref=dp_byline_cont_book_1

http://www.amazon.com/IRA-Wealth-Revolutionary-Strategies-Investment/dp/0757000940/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1400098832&sr=1-1&keywords=ira+wealth+patrick+rice

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=misko%20how%20to%20finance

http://www.amazon.com/Retiring-Right-Third-Successful-Retirement/dp/0757001327/ref=sr_1_fkmr1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1400099077&sr=1-1-fkmr1&keywords=retiring+right+square+one+press

http://www.amazon.com/What-Teach-Harvard-Business-School/dp/0553345834/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1400099142&sr=1-1&keywords=what+they+didnt+teach+you+in+harvard+business+schools

They all teach you about money, investment, property, negotiation, life.

@Brian Gibbons Thank you for that great list of books. @Val Csontos Mentioned that there were all the books on Ebay. On the CCIM webpage, I tried to find the material and had no luck. Any idea of where I can find the books that they use? I learned about the CCIM yesterday and I enjoy reading and doing to learn. I don't really care for the extra letters or anything but, if you think those letters are worth what the course could cost please set me straight.

Originally posted by @Justin Larpenteur :

@Brian Gibbons Thank you for that great list of books. @Val Csontos Mentioned that there were all the books on Ebay. On the CCIM webpage, I tried to find the material and had no luck. Any idea of where I can find the books that they use? I learned about the CCIM yesterday and I enjoy reading and doing to learn. I don't really care for the extra letters or anything but, if you think those letters are worth what the course could cost please set me straight.

 If you have a CCIM designation you get respect.  From Brokers, CPAs, Lawyers.

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