Mentoring Cost $20,000

Michael Burks · 2018-02-12T09:13:35-08:00

I went to the 2 day Life Styles Unlimited class this past weekend with the goal of learning and finding a multi-family mentor to begin investing with. Like a typical sales funnel I quickly learned it was a brief overview to get the juices flowing, tell you about all the stock market failures and pain points that have let you down in the past, then build you back up with the millionaire mindset and that for only a mere $20,000 that LSU can mentor you to become a millionaire and live the millionaire lifestyle that you and your family so deserve. And to ad a sense of urgency to close the deal, they say you must sign up today or next month the price will be $25,000. My question to everyone...is there anyone out there who genuinely is willing to mentor someone in the Dallas/Ft.Worth area? I have the passion and the funds to invest in multi-family, I just have no interest in being run thru a sales funnel and someone collecting $20,000 - $25,000 first. They are in the business of making huge money off selling information and dreams via sales funnels first, while teaching the secrets of investing second. I am looking for the kind of mentor that is not part of trying to run people thru a sales funnel and collect there money before you learn the “secrets”. Is there anyone out there that exists who is willing to let someone shadow them, while in return working for free just to watch and learn the process that truly make there living investing in multi-family and not running a sales funnel?

Marshall Hooper

Investor · Houston, TX · Member since 2017 · 129 posts · 62 votes

8y

Originally posted by @Scott L.:

I've been to the LUI 2-day seminar for single/multi family investment about a year and a half ago. I thought it was worth the $400. Because I had already been researching and doing podcasts and listening to talk radio guru's I felt like I had gotten most of the info they gave at the seminar, but it took me a long time. However, that's the way I learn. I did hear the pitch for the single and multi-family mentoring for around $9k/$20K respectively. No one is going to give you anything valuable for free, but I felt my money was better spent on my first investment. Now I have 3 SFR's. On the multi side, I kind of see the $20K as buying you entry and proving you're serious. For legal reasons LUI doesn't do their own syndications, they just put you together with other investors/leads and do their own brokering/consulting etc to their members. For the original poster, I think the biggest thing you bring to the table in the multifamily space is probably money. If you have the wherewithal to get into a private deal as a passive I think there's groups out there that would have you. It's just a question of whether you want to pay a "guru" firm like LUI to introduce you....and to some extent to screen the people they're introducing you to, or if you want to do it yourself. I don't have $20K laying around to pay someone to (theoretically) do due diligence and consult on deals, but if I was putting $500K equity into a big syndication, I might. Perhaps when I'm done with my SFR empire... 3 down, 197 to go.... ;-)

it took about 30 comments before this guy finally responded with something that was value add

0 Reply

Jay HinrichsBusiness Member

Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes

8y

Originally posted by @Paul B.:

Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:

Not sure if anyone mentioned it but there is a very simple answer to this.

HIRE a very good commercial Broker who specializes in selling MFR that's all you need they will teach you everything you need to know in exchange for you using them to broker the property your going to buy.

Now keep in mind the better ones are big money players and you will need to prove your a big money buyer.. to get the best brokers to work with you.

But thats all you need is a quality broker who has been doing it 5 years plus.. they will know everything there is to know about their product.. otherwise they would no longer be in business

But what will they charge? It might even be more than the $20K mentoring program, right? You say yourself one needs to be a big money buyer to do this, in which case the $20K mentoring program would be peanuts. The overall theme of this thread is whether one should spend any money at all on a mentor.

90% or more of these deals go through brokers one way or another.. if the 20k is to learn how to buy off market and you are not using a broker well then yes its cheap.. but there is no mystery to this.. I brokered a nice 5 million dollar deal for a client of mine in Hawaii.. I did all the work I sourced it they never came to see it until we did the quick inspections.. and yes I made 100k as the broker... but they got a fabulous building the seller paid my fee as is the case in 99% of these deals..

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Scott L.

Investor · Flower Mound, TX · Member since 2017 · 182 posts · 198 votes

8y

Originally posted by @Marshall Hooper:

it took about 30 comments before this guy finally responded with something that was value add

Who? Me? I only commented once on this thread. But then again, all my posts are gold nuggets of wisdom... ;-)

1 Reply

Marshall Hooper

Investor · Houston, TX · Member since 2017 · 129 posts · 62 votes

8y

Originally posted by @Scott L.:

Originally posted by @Marshall Hooper:

it took about 30 comments before this guy finally responded with something that was value add

Who? Me? I only commented once on this thread. But then again, all my posts are gold nuggets of wisdom... ;-)

there were lots of comments before yours that were a waste. yours actually had some value to it. The author brings money to the table. I'm not sure why that was difficult for the others to understand.

1 Reply

Jay HinrichsBusiness Member

Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes

8y

Originally posted by @Paul B.:

Originally posted by @Jerry Shen:

Brokers make money when a deal closes, you are going to need one if you do MFR investing anyway so why not get the advice as a bonus?

Calling brokers and having them send you deals is free. But they are not actually mentoring you, are they?

My understanding (because I haven't done it myself, but I invest with those who do) is that big commercial brokers hardly even call you back if you're not already a player, especially when it's a seller's market.

well there are always broker working for the bigger brokers starting out you can share your journey with them.. so In a way I guess I mentored my client from Hawaii.. we closed this 5 mil deal I was happy.. I then showed him how to HML and we built a little HML company together.. and made some nice dough... ( so I guess I mentored him on that and I did not charge up front just on performance) then we went on to build 40 houses together over the last 3 years and made LOTS of money together.. so I guess I mentored him on that.. but instead of charging him 20k to teach him how do it.. and turn him on to my bank contacts which are quite strong.. we just did the deals together and each made 7 figures.. Plus we get to use a empty condo he has in Hawaii for free anytime we want it.. so I guess that is my mentoring fee... there are plenty of little guys like me out there that will work with those that are shy on experience but long on liquidity.. Like this client was/is I met them in 05 and we are still at it today..

I for one am not anti paid coaching I have made significant income over the years helping students that learned from Lyndahl / Montalongo / Vertucci / rich dad etc etc... lets face it like anything 5 to 10% that pay for mentoring it was worth it to them they went on and did deals.. to the other % its just anything real estate related they lose interest and just don't do anything.

at the end of the day these are pretty straight forward transactions with well document due diligence check lists one goes through to determine if the deals will work or not. Heck your lender usually does most of it for you anyway.

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Jerry Shen

Denver, CO · Member since 2016 · 114 posts · 99 votes

8y

Originally posted by @Paul B.:

Originally posted by @Jerry Shen:

Brokers make money when a deal closes, you are going to need one if you do MFR investing anyway so why not get the advice as a bonus?

Calling brokers and having them send you deals is free. But they are not actually mentoring you, are they?

My understanding (because I haven't done it myself, but I invest with those who do) is that big commercial brokers hardly even call you back if you're not already a player, especially when it's a seller's market.

Good brokers will mentor you if you are serious about buying and provably have the capital to make their time worthwhile. You don't have to be a player you just have to have money. And if you don't have money to get into MFR why would you pay for a mentor anyway?

0 Reply

Jerry Shen

Denver, CO · Member since 2016 · 114 posts · 99 votes

8y

Originally posted by @Michael Le:

Originally posted by @Jerry Shen:

Mentorship programs offer mostly accountability, but I'm of the mind that if you are the type of person to need that type of hand holding you aren't going to be very successful anyway.

That's an odd thing to say considering you did it by hiring Joel to hold your hands. And I'm sure Joel cost more than $20k as a buyers broker.

I think you misread my post. I didn't say beginners don't need ANY hand holding, I specifically mentioned accountability as a specific type of hand holding that is a negative signal to me. You have to be a self starter.

Look at the incentive structure. A broker only gets paid if a deal goes through. If you are serious about wanting to do a deal, then your incentives are better aligned with a broker than a guru who gets paid regardless of whether or not you actually can close a deal, right?

Joel certainly did a lot of hand holding through the specifics I wasn't familiar with, but if I paid 20K for a mentorship program I would have needed to pay the broker at the end of the day anyway if I wanted to get a deal done.

1 Reply

Angela Yan

Rental Property Investor · San Francisco, CA · Member since 2017 · 206 posts · 138 votes

8y

Should check out Peter Harris if you need a hands on approach and some hand holding. You get to talk to him every week 3 times a week on your deals. He is $12,000 for 360 days and 50% of your profit up to $250k which is alot of deals to make that par. He has alot of videos on YouTube and his lessons are clear and he is extremely patient without the cheessy vibe or the flamboyant GC flare. He also co wrote the Commercial Real Estate book for Dummies. Good Luck!

1 Reply

John W.

Rental Property Investor · Buffalo, NY · Member since 2017 · 257 posts · 130 votes

8y

I mentor people here and there locally in Buffalo. The way it works is that they must follow through and generate their own leads and then bring them to me, I help them close them and we split profits. Or I give them assignments for my own leads and then they take a small cut if something comes of it. Eventually they know enough and are on their own. Everybody wins. And then you end up with a solid relationship in your network that may bring bigger and better things in the future.

You should not be paying anyone up front exorbitant amounts of money and committing to split profits for hundreds of thousands of dollars. It should be a reasonable arrangement that benefits both parties.

1 Reply

Ron Harris

Investor · Oklahoma City, OK · Member since 2010 · 279 posts · 90 votes

8y

One of these days, I'll write an article why you should pay or incentivize your mentor. I have a 30 min "talk" as to why most mentors charge (but not exorbitantly).

But...
The simple fast answer is:

Mentors learn that when they give it all away for free the student can walk away for free.

No "skin in the game".
- It's not about the money, the money makes it serious.
The failure rate is much higher for the student.
- This makes the mentor sad.
I've paid mentors to learn this the hard way and to charge (yes, I paid mentors to make me a better mentor).

I even snuck in free students against my mentors' suggestions only to see some quit.

This makes me sad.

Mentors start charging a fair rate with no conflict of interest or collusion and learn:

It weeds out the un-serious.
The student doesn't waste the valuable time of the mentor
- Most mentors do not do it for the money, they do it for the reward of passing down knowledge to appreciative students. This is why we get the "teacher bug."
Students take every lesson or idea serious.The success rate goes through the roof.

This makes mentor happy!
The mentor doesn't feel like a failure or failed to teach properly.

The best way to find out if your potential mentor has a good reputation is to connect with your LOCAL REIA and ask around. You'll hear quickly which mentors (I suggest a LOCAL mentor) are good and which ones are not. A local mentor has a higher reason to protect their reputation and integrity when they live in the same location as the mentees.

Most Fly-by-night gurus are not worth their cost or they teach too many advanced techniques which may not actually work in your location. It's also not all about the technical aspects of investing but also self-development, accountability and avoiding landmines (big mistakes... some learned the hard way, ha).

The only time you should be paying a mentor $20,000 (time specific) is if there are special & specific reasons. Usually, I say, when you are ready for a $20,000 mentorship is that you are already millionaire or successful as a real estate investors. Most likely, that 20K would better be spent going into a private mastermind with other successful investors.

Recap:

Find a local mentor
Check out their reputation with the LOCAL REIA
Pay/reward the mentor for their time. Everyone takes it seriously.
Mentorship should cover the technicals, coaching, non-technicals, accountability, self-development & avoiding the landmines. Local mentors have local resources and network for you to tap in to.

Hope that helps.

Ron

5 Reply

Lane Kawaoka

Rental Property Investor · Honolulu, HAWAII (HI) · Member since 2011 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes

8y

@Matt K.

To qualify for non recourse debt you need experience in the eyes of the bank on my partnership team. Its a dumb rule but that'show the game is played. If you keep doing sfh you will never get that experience. If you incrementally do larger and large mfh you have more and more money in to ONE deal, no diversification.

SFHs... Do the math... All that work for just a measly 300 dollar of cashflow a month. You are going to need dozens of these.

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Matt K.

Walnut Creek, CA · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes

8y

Originally posted by @Lane Kawaoka:

@Matt K.

To qualify for non recourse debt you need experience in the eyes of the bank on my partnership team. Its a dumb rule but that'show the game is played. If you keep doing sfh you will never get that experience. If you incrementally do larger and large mfh you have more and more money in to ONE deal, no diversification.

SFHs... Do the math... All that work for just a measly 300 dollar of cashflow a month. You are going to need dozens of these.

If you have no idea what your doing evaluating a SFH is a lot easier and more forgiving than doing an MFH. The 20k he'd spend on training can be a a decent SFH that lets him get his feet wet and see if this is something he even wants to do.

Maybe it's different out there but my realtors have access to plenty of bigger commerical portfolios (sfh and mfh) but those relationships were built by people's ability to close deals. I'm not knocking mfh or saying sfh the way to go, rather I'm saying spend the money on deals and start doing deals, show people you can close and build that relationship.

1 Reply

Naftali Schabes

Miami, FL · Member since 2018 · 88 posts · 10 votes

8y

this reminds me of a similar discussion I have of going to school or not

do you go to in school for 3 plus years on whatever you wanna be and spend 1000s of dollars doing that like a which coming out of school you will be in debt with student loans then maybe get that dream job that you want

mentor way

or get a job you like then learn trial and error the hard way at least you will have experience build yourself up climb the ladder for 3 years and make money that way without being in debt no mentor

who would you hire the guy graduating learning it for 3 years yes a degree

or the guy working in the field 3 years no degree?

1 Reply

Jack V. Ospina

Real Estate Broker · Miami, FL · Member since 2018 · 236 posts · 99 votes

8y

I'm currently in the field of buying and selling real estate for myself or clients but I also like to learn new techniques and learn from other because I don't proclaim to know it all. I attended a seminar a few months back on Wholesaling and it was a complete waste of time. Mostly hype and no content whatsoever. I felt like all they did was talk about motivation to set us up for the real bang.. I attended the first day and never showed up the remaining days. I felt like I wasted my time. I do not need extra motivation. I need CONTENT. The mentor called me the next day saying I was approved for $100,000 by some company after checking my credit. Practically they wanted to charge $38,000 for mentoring and that was the beginning. I noticed a trend and realized $38,000 was just the beginning to what they really wanted to do and that is "mentor" you forever and collect as much money as they can while they could care less if you get a deal or not. Your better off spending that money into your first deal. I feel sorry for everyone that completed the 3 day seminar. Having a mentor is great but obtaining a partner for your first deal is better.

1 Reply

Gino BarbaroPro Member

Rental Property Investor · St Augustine, FL · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes

8y

@Michael Burks

Hi Michael

I agree with @Andrew Johnson comment. I have been able to scale rather quickly and created an educational platform. I had @Dean ******** on my podcast and asked him how he responded to this criticism. His response was simple. He has spent millions on educating himself and offers true value. I am constantly being asked if I can get my brain "picked".

These people understand a 15 minute conversation will lead to nothing. I agree that 20k may be a bit steep, but if it gets you into your first deal, it's only the cost of one semester at a typical college and the experience will be live transforming.

You need to decide how bad you want it, decide to spend money for you're education and then pick the right mentor/educator

Gino

Podcast Guest on Show The “Conveyor Belt” System That’ll Build You a BIG Rental Portfolio Quickly

3 Reply

Andrew Johnson

Real Estate Investor · Encinitas, CA · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes

8y

@Gino Barbaro I just think there has to be a happy medium. The idea that a new investor with squat for funds would pay $20K for a one-size-fits-all program just boggles my mind. I enjoy road cycling but I wouldn't tell someone who read about it, wants to try it out, that they need to by a $18K bike. You don't need to go find a bike for free but you should probably stick to the "entry level" bikes out there and see if you like it. There's a darn good chance that you end up loving mountain biking more than road cycling. They're both cycling but it's different gear, locations, mindsets, etc. Just like syndicators and turn-key investors are both in real estate but really are very different propositions.

One of the massive differences between your educational platform idea (and I've never used it so I can't speak from experience) is that someone can listen to two podcasts, follow you on BP, see your perspective, see what your focus is, and can take their time figuring out you be a good coach to them. The idea that after a 2-hour or 2-day seminar you should drop $20K or $50K just boggles my mind. Especially because, in most cases, you found out about the hotel seminar from a one-size-fits-all radio ad.

But if you do find someone that has done what you want to do, you perceive that they do it well, you think there's a style match, etc. then I wouldn't expect them to carve time out of their schedule on a regular basis for me. Because I want them to. Because I think experienced people should want to give back and be a mentor. And because it's me they should handpick because I'm all sorts o' "special". Most people only ever see the arrangement from the mentees perspective. There's little thought given to what the mentor has to put into it.

And, personally, if I wanted a mentor to learn details on something I didn't know (like syndication) I'd want to pay them. I'd want to have a financial transaction that holds them accountable. I'd like to have expectations for what I can expect from the mentorship is exchange for money. Otherwise, there's a darn good chance I'm going to waste my time. And if I think my time has any inherent value, I wouldn't want to do that.

3 Reply

Gino BarbaroPro Member

Rental Property Investor · St Augustine, FL · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes

8y

@Andrew Johnson

The problem with today's gurus is that the majority are not doing. It is incredibly difficult to do both. I have been blessed to have Jake as a partner where he runs day-to-day operations of management company and I run day-to-day of Jake & Gino, and we help each other out on both companies. I don't think people understand how difficult it is to put out quality continuous info that is relevant and actionable to use.

If a person has a strong desire and a huge why, then go spend $$ on a great coach. I just don't want people on the fence to spend the money. If you are going to burn the ships and retreat is not an option, then I would spend the money. I did, and my learning curve was dramatically cut short.

Not everyone thinks like you and me about giving back. They should read the Go Giver and realize the more you give, the more you get.

Gino

Podcast Guest on Show The “Conveyor Belt” System That’ll Build You a BIG Rental Portfolio Quickly

2 Reply

Abel Sng

DFW, TX · Member since 2016 · 58 posts · 68 votes

8y

@Gino Barbaro amen. Listened to y'all's BP podcast and y'all are a hoot! Seem like fun guys to be around.

I think you have a good set up. Most people try to do everything and in the end do nothing well. Crazy how little qualifications it takes now a days to be a "guru" or to be paid to "mentor" someone.

0 Reply

Gino BarbaroPro Member

Rental Property Investor · St Augustine, FL · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes

8y

@Abel Sng

It takes time and dedication to become a "guru". The best part is it focuses me to learn more and become better. I have been introduced to so many smart and talented people. I had Ken McElroy on out podcast. That was one hour of gold, and just one example of how when you give you get back

Gino

Podcast Guest on Show The “Conveyor Belt” System That’ll Build You a BIG Rental Portfolio Quickly

1 Reply

Andrew Johnson

Real Estate Investor · Encinitas, CA · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes

8y

@Jack V. Ospina I think one of the "fun" things that I notice is that when a lot of people are inquiring about a seminar or coaching program it comes out of the blue. What I mean by that is there is never a lead in such as:

1.) I met a local highly successful real estate investor at a meetup that recommended this program...

2.) I just had a conversation with a friend of mine that's finished up a $20K mentorship and recommended that I look into it...

3.) I hear a lot of positive things on BP about ____ but their mentorship program is $20K, how do I determine if this is the right program for me?

The vast majority of guru/education/etc. program topics that come up in the forums appear to just *poof* come from the ether and appear. I know that's never the case and they didn't just wander through a random hotel on a Saturday and stumble into a ballroom with a motivational speaker. Something had to get that period to show up for the "free half-day seminar".

I have no idea if it's online advertising, radio, etc. but I'm guessing it's one of those mass-marketing non-targeted channels of advertising. Maybe I'm wrong, I could be wrong, but I'm sure others that see these kinds of forum posts notice the same thing.

By the way, it's seldom (if ever) that I hear someone post on the forums something like: "I really want to learn syndication and I think guidance would really benefit me. I've done my research and narrowed in down to these three programs, can the community weigh in and help me know the benefits and/or shortcomings of each to help me make my decision?"

I think there has to be value in education. You'll pay for it with youthful sweat (my pseudo-case), making some hard mistakes (also me, but to a lesser extent), formal paid education (not really my bag...yet), etc. and the non-quantifiable "hitting a single instead of a double."

Anyway, I should something other than prattle on a BP forum today...

1 Reply

Michael Le

Developer · Houston, TX · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes

8y

Originally posted by @Andrew Johnson:

@Jack V. Ospina

By the way, it's seldom (if ever) that I hear someone post on the forums something like: "I really want to learn syndication and I think guidance would really benefit me. I've done my research and narrowed in down to these three programs, can the community weigh in and help me know the benefits and/or shortcomings of each to help me make my decision?"

Hey Andrew,

As a matter of fact that's exactly how it was for me. I was sold on the mentorship model due to how I got into single family residential. And I was determined to move with some expediency so I wasn't going to wait around on the off chance I met someone willing to help me, so I knew I would pay for one. I narrowed it down to a few well-known programs. I'm from Houston, where Lifestyles Unlimited is based, so it made sense to have them on the list. I heard of Brad Sumrok from a podcast I listened to and he was based out of Dallas, so I checked him out too. There was also Michael Blank and Joe Fairless who were fairly active on these forums and starting up their programs too. I was evaluating all of them for a time but I never asked any questions about it on BP because I knew how anti-guru BP was so I never expected a good answer, so didn't bother.

So that's the flip side of it. On one side you think BP is filled with shills for various guru programs. On the other side it's so anti-guru some people don't even dare talk about it.

0 Reply

Andrew Johnson

Real Estate Investor · Encinitas, CA · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes

8y

@Michael Le I don't know why anyone would be afraid to talk about it. In fact, I would wager the community would love to hear unbiased opinions about going through those programs.

But let's not mince words, there are literal shill accounts on BP. People that post 3 times and they all happen to be rebuttals to someone being dissatisfied with a guru. They don't fill out a profile, don't weigh in on anything else, and their accounts were created the day after the "trigger" forum post and the first day they make three posts defending the guru/program/etc. It doesn't happen a huge percentage of the time but it happens often enough for some of us to notice. Heck, you have probably seen it yourself.

The other issue is affiliate marketers which is more of a fine line. It's hard for me (as a reader) to take a "education programs are great" comments seriously if they are also trying to sell versions of those programs. It doesn't mean that they're wrong but I don't trust the Land Rover salesmen when he tells me that reliability programs aren't an issue anymore (for the record, I own a Land Rover!). What I wouldn't give for them be required to designate themselves as "Affiliate Marketer" instead of "Investor" or some other title. I absolutely love when I see the @Gino Barbaros of the world say "Professional Coach". If you're good at it, there should be no shame in your game ;-)

I honestly wonder how much of the "anti-guru" sentiment is due to:

a.) Potential an inherent self-service for free "learn here" bias...

b.) Obvious (in my uneducated opinion) shill accounts posting to some small degree...

c.) Semi-transparent affiliate marketers on BP, that often do add legitimate value and insight!

Maybe one of them is the primary drivers or maybe it's all three or maybe it's something completely different. And, even for me, it's easy to castigate all programs when you hear the even a few are out there saying "We'll teach you how to open credit cards to pay for your gold program, don't worry about it, we'll teach you how to make enough money to pay back that debt in no time!" Unless that's what you did...then I just put my foot in my mouth...and I should really shut up...

For what it's worth, thanks for at least exposing your story (despite biases) for others to read. It helps to frame a healthy conversation.

1 Reply

Michael Le

Developer · Houston, TX · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes

8y

@Andrew Johnson Oh yeah, there are obvious shills on BP. As you said, I've seen plenty of them. Fortunately they're generally very obvious. 1-2 posts and newly created. On the other hand, pretty much any post that asks for an opinion of some education program will bring out the same amount of people claiming pure scam and that the only education anyone will ever need is on BP. It's hard to make it through the noise.

0 Reply

Lane Kawaoka

Rental Property Investor · Honolulu, HAWAII (HI) · Member since 2011 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes

8y

There are programs out there that are completely garbage. If it’s a set amount of videos or online (digitally) you can bet you can find it online for free. However if you need people as partners to do deals like in the MFH world. You have to pay to play.

1 Reply

Grant Rothenburger

Investor · Taylor Mill, KY · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 964 votes

8y

@Michael Burks $20k for an actual good mentor can be well worth it. It can also be a waste of money if they bring no real value.

1 Reply

Mentoring Cost $20,000

Mentoring Cost $20,000

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