What is the average cost of drawings and permits?

San Diego, CA · Member since 2017 · 34 posts · 15 votes

I'm in San Diego and looking to convert a three car garage into two 1-1 units. The total square footage is roughly 700 sq ft. There is a 2-1 apt above the garages already. The property is in North Park.

I spoke to ADU Geeks, a San Diego-based firm that specializes in ADU development, and they quoted me ~$36k for all soft costs for both units. Soft costs includes design, permit fees, school fees, water/sewer and title 24. So basically from nothing to permits in hand and ready to build will be $36k.

Does that seem reasonable? Any way for me to get that done cheaper?

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Andrew Sundseth

Rental Property Investor · Member since 2020 · 11 posts · 2 votes

That does sound expensive but that could be due to your location. Also, does that include the actual install/connection of sewer and water or just the design? I’m trying to budget for the same scope as you in Hawaii and I’m budgeting roughly 10k for the plans and permits. Your plans are going to be your biggest variable cost, permits should be standard fees or percent based. I would recommend you get at least one or two more quotes.

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Andrew Sundseth
Rental Property Investor · Member since 2020 · 11 posts · 2 votes
3y
That does sound expensive but that could be due to your location. Also, does that include the actual install/connection of sewer and water or just the design? I’m trying to budget for the same scope as you in Hawaii and I’m budgeting roughly 10k for the plans and permits. Your plans are going to be your biggest variable cost, permits should be standard fees or percent based. I would recommend you get at least one or two more quotes.
2 Reply
Andrew Sundseth
Rental Property Investor · Member since 2020 · 11 posts · 2 votes
3y
Just to clarify, I’m going to use a modified package home plan or the same design as my friends house so my cost for plans is goi g to be much cheaper than a whole new set of plans.
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Scott E.
Contractor · Scottsdale, AZ · Member since 2010 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
3y
I agree with Andrew. Seems a bit high but probably just due to your location. For something similar here in AZ would be ~$15k.
Do you have a general contractor lined up? They might know a draftsman who can knock this out for you for less. Especially if you already have the design work figured out on your own.
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Bruce WoodruffPro Member
Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
3y
I used to build in SD and that is about right. As @Scott E. said, you could find a draftperson and then do all the legwork with the city yourself. You would probably save about $10k. But you will pay dearly in your time and frustration, trust me....and it will take twice as long.
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Keegan Wetzel
Realtor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2022 · 47 posts · 34 votes
3y
Quote from @Anthony To:

I'm in San Diego and looking to convert a three car garage into two 1-1 units. The total square footage is roughly 700 sq ft. There is a 2-1 apt above the garages already. The property is in North Park.
I spoke to ADU Geeks, a San Diego-based firm that specializes in ADU development, and they quoted me ~$36k for all soft costs for both units. Soft costs includes design, permit fees, school fees, water/sewer and title 24. So basically from nothing to permits in hand and ready to build will be $36k.
Does that seem reasonable? Any way for me to get that done cheaper?

Hi @Anthony To,
Those numbers look pretty solid for a bigger company. The biggest shave I have seen on soft costs are using a 3rd-party permit runner to maybe save like $5k. Permits and plans for 2-units probably range $8k-15k. The City is going to be about $1800 in permit fees and then probably another $3500+ in sewer/water/school/DIF.

Here is a rough quote I received from a bigger company in San Diego to build 4 units where I have an existing 5-garage structure, and this would include partitioning off part of an existing 3 unit to make my 4th unit (so converting the 5 garages into 3 units)

It feels like a pretty conservative approach....but, for what it's worth, here are the numbers we actually all care about! And they are pretty tasty, which is why I love investing in this market and helping my clients do the same!
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Jonathan KlemmBusiness Member
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Contractor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2016 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
3y
Hey @Anthony To - I am a contractor in Chicago and it costs about $10-15k for drawings and $3-7k for permits. My friend @Doug Spence is also in San Diego and may know those local numbers.

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Doug Spence
Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 975 votes
3y
@Anthony To I've heard ADU Geeks is fairly expensive and 36k sounds like a lot for sure. I would reach out to as many companies as you can and get an idea of the range of costs/experience/quality before you commit to a company.
I recently started chatting with different companies myself because I want to build a detached ADU at our residence in La Mesa. I'm happy to share a few contacts that I've chatted with recently!
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Keegan Wetzel
Realtor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2022 · 47 posts · 34 votes
3y
Quote from @Doug Spence:

@Anthony To I've heard ADU Geeks is fairly expensive and 36k sounds like a lot for sure. I would reach out to as many companies as you can and get an idea of the range of costs/experience/quality before you commit to a company.
I recently started chatting with different companies myself because I want to build a detached ADU at our residence in La Mesa. I'm happy to share a few contacts that I've chatted with recently!

@Doug Spence was my referral CJ able to get you a quote?!
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Doug Spence
Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 975 votes
3y
@Keegan Wetzel First step is a feasibility study. I'm concerned about the property line with my neighbor, and septic. Gotta figure those out before I get quotes from anyone. CJ was great though! Very knowledgable.
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Wesley I.
Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2019 · 286 posts · 135 votes
3y
@Anthony To
You might have heard of the ADU grant which i heard covers even the development cost to build the ADU. Could be worth looking into.
I also want to mention im a local draftsperson here in San Diego.
I would suggest looking into other design companies and compare quotes.
1 Reply
Anthony To
OP
San Diego, CA · Member since 2017 · 34 posts · 15 votes
3y
Quote from @Scott E.:

I agree with Andrew. Seems a bit high but probably just due to your location. For something similar here in AZ would be ~$15k.
Do you have a general contractor lined up? They might know a draftsman who can knock this out for you for less. Especially if you already have the design work figured out on your own.

Thanks for the response, yes I do have a contractor I work with and he said that the quote I got is expensive. He did recommend me a draftsperson that I’m going to reach out to. He thinks soft coats should be half of what I was quoted
1 Reply
Anthony To
OP
San Diego, CA · Member since 2017 · 34 posts · 15 votes
3y
Quote from @Bruce Woodruff:

I used to build in SD and that is about right. As @Scott E. said, you could find a draftperson and then do all the legwork with the city yourself. You would probably save about $10k. But you will pay dearly in your time and frustration, trust me....and it will take twice as long.

This idea crossed me mind! What are some of the biggest challenges if I decide to try and work with the city myself?
0 Reply
Anthony To
OP
San Diego, CA · Member since 2017 · 34 posts · 15 votes
3y
Quote from @Keegan Wetzel:

Quote from @Anthony To:

I'm in San Diego and looking to convert a three car garage into two 1-1 units. The total square footage is roughly 700 sq ft. There is a 2-1 apt above the garages already. The property is in North Park.
I spoke to ADU Geeks, a San Diego-based firm that specializes in ADU development, and they quoted me ~$36k for all soft costs for both units. Soft costs includes design, permit fees, school fees, water/sewer and title 24. So basically from nothing to permits in hand and ready to build will be $36k.
Does that seem reasonable? Any way for me to get that done cheaper?

Hi @Anthony To,
Those numbers look pretty solid for a bigger company. The biggest shave I have seen on soft costs are using a 3rd-party permit runner to maybe save like $5k. Permits and plans for 2-units probably range $8k-15k. The City is going to be about $1800 in permit fees and then probably another $3500+ in sewer/water/school/DIF.

Here is a rough quote I received from a bigger company in San Diego to build 4 units where I have an existing 5-garage structure, and this would include partitioning off part of an existing 3 unit to make my 4th unit (so converting the 5 garages into 3 units)

It feels like a pretty conservative approach....but, for what it's worth, here are the numbers we actually all care about! And they are pretty tasty, which is why I love investing in this market and helping my clients do the same!

Thanks for showing these numbers! Very helpful to see how mine compare. I’m going to get some other quotes and see how this all stacks up. Fortunately, the numbers work out for me at 35k soft costs so anything cheaper is just extra gravy
1 Reply
Anthony To
OP
San Diego, CA · Member since 2017 · 34 posts · 15 votes
3y
Quote from @Wesley I.:

@Anthony To
You might have heard of the ADU grant which i heard covers even the development cost to build the ADU. Could be worth looking into.
I also want to mention im a local draftsperson here in San Diego.
I would suggest looking into other design companies and compare quotes.

Hi @Wesley I. thanks for the input! I actually have not heard of the ADU grant but I'll be looking into it now. Would love to pick your brain as a draftsperson, will be dm'ing you!
0 Reply
Anthony To
OP
San Diego, CA · Member since 2017 · 34 posts · 15 votes
3y
For those interested, it looks like California had an ADU grant program that earmarked $100M towards soft costs for ADU development. But all the money has been fully reserved as of March 1, 2023! So looks like we just missed the boat. Bummer, as that would've been nice! More info: https://www.calhfa.ca.gov/adu/
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Bruce WoodruffPro Member
Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
3y
Quote from @Anthony To:

Quote from @Bruce Woodruff:

I used to build in SD and that is about right. As @Scott E. said, you could find a draftperson and then do all the legwork with the city yourself. You would probably save about $10k. But you will pay dearly in your time and frustration, trust me....and it will take twice as long.

This idea crossed me mind! What are some of the biggest challenges if I decide to try and work with the city myself?

Mainly that you won't know where to go and who to talk to, then add in that you will not know all the tricks of the trade and shortcuts. It will take you much longer and be very frustrating, but will definitely save you some bucks!
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Christian BallowBusiness Member
Realtor · National City, CA · Member since 2019 · 11 posts · 13 votes
3y
Hi @Anthony To, I have about 11 ADUs currently in different phases of design permitting or development in various cities around San Diego. $36k is very expensive for the costs you were quoted, especially a garage conversion. I plan to build 2 homes and 2 ADUs through SB9 and I am expecting the soft costs to land around ~$36k. For a garage conversion, I would expect ~$5k in design, ~$3k in title 24 & engineering, ~$9k in permitting fees, and school fees would depend on the school district. San Diego Unified School fees are $4.79 per square foot of assessable space, so it would be ~$3,353 in your case.
You can avoid school fees by keeping your development below 500 sqft.

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Keegan Wetzel
Realtor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2022 · 47 posts · 34 votes
3y
Quote from @Christian Ballow:

Hi @Anthony To, I have about 11 ADUs currently in different phases of design permitting or development in various cities around San Diego. $36k is very expensive for the costs you were quoted, especially a garage conversion. I plan to build 2 homes and 2 ADUs through SB9 and I am expecting the soft costs to land around ~$36k. For a garage conversion, I would expect ~$5k in design, ~$3k in title 24 & engineering, ~$9k in permitting fees, and school fees would depend on the school district. San Diego Unified School fees are $4.79 per square foot of assessable space, so it would be ~$3,353 in your case.
You can avoid school fees by keeping your development below 500 sqft.

@Christian Ballow who do you use for design, engineering, and permitting? Those sound like great rates!
0 Reply
Luka Milicevic
Real Estate Agent · Nashville, TN · Member since 2015 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
3y
@Anthony To
Day in and day out I see why there is a mass exodus from CA.
I build houses and that is unreasonably high in my market. I mean if I was doing a large apartment complex....maybe.... but for an ADU!!! Come on. That sounds ridiculous
For a home in my market, architect drawings, site plans/surveys, permits combined should be around $2500-3000. Getting water/sewer/storm water maps are free. This is a single family home. If I was doing an ADU I would expect it to be MUCH less as I wouldn't need a full site plan which is the most expensive part of the process.
Maybe this is just CA? I don't know....I would contact a few other places at the very least.
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Account Closed
Developer · Los Angeles · Member since 2022 · 45 posts · 16 votes
3y
Quote from @Luka Milicevic:

@Anthony To
Day in and day out I see why there is a mass exodus from CA.
I build houses and that is unreasonably high in my market. I mean if I was doing a large apartment complex....maybe.... but for an ADU!!! Come on. That sounds ridiculous
For a home in my market, architect drawings, site plans/surveys, permits combined should be around $2500-3000. Getting water/sewer/storm water maps are free. This is a single family home. If I was doing an ADU I would expect it to be MUCH less as I wouldn't need a full site plan which is the most expensive part of the process.
Maybe this is just CA? I don't know....I would contact a few other places at the very least.

There is a net outflow and there has been since 1990. But..."Overwhelmingly the out-migrants are low-income people." -Richard Green, director of USC Lusk Center for Real Estate. -LA Times article I read yesterday(I don't know the rules on links here). Not really something to be proud of, but it gives context to the CA Exodus Doomsayers.

Also OP is doing a 2 unit below another unit, so this is at least 4-units on a lot. Not your standard single family garage ADU. I just permitted a garage ADU using SB9 in LA for 6k in soft costs including the Habitat Study. Though I do have a lot of experience arguing with LA Planning, so that helped.
1 Reply
Brad S.
Investor · Pasadena, CA · Member since 2017 · 613 posts · 523 votes
3y
I have 2 projects in architectural stage now. 2 different architects, both are charging generally by the sf. One is $15/sf ("discounted" to $12/sf) and the other was at $2.50/sf, but has gone to around $4/sf due to some complexities. I thought the first guy was expensive, but it is a small project (400sf) so I started with him so not to waste time, then I got the 2nd guy involved on the larger project (4 units- 3,200sf total). I only have the engineering proposal for the small project so far, and that is $4,100 for the basic phase. And my brother recently finished building a ground up 4,200sf sfr and paid around 4x your quote for soft costs, so it does seem to be pretty high for a 700sf conversion.
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Luka Milicevic
Real Estate Agent · Nashville, TN · Member since 2015 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
3y
Quote from @Account Closed:

Quote from @Luka Milicevic:

@Anthony To
Day in and day out I see why there is a mass exodus from CA.
I build houses and that is unreasonably high in my market. I mean if I was doing a large apartment complex....maybe.... but for an ADU!!! Come on. That sounds ridiculous
For a home in my market, architect drawings, site plans/surveys, permits combined should be around $2500-3000. Getting water/sewer/storm water maps are free. This is a single family home. If I was doing an ADU I would expect it to be MUCH less as I wouldn't need a full site plan which is the most expensive part of the process.
Maybe this is just CA? I don't know....I would contact a few other places at the very least.

There is a net outflow and there has been since 1990. But..."Overwhelmingly the out-migrants are low-income people." -Richard Green, director of USC Lusk Center for Real Estate. -LA Times article I read yesterday(I don't know the rules on links here). Not really something to be proud of, but it gives context to the CA Exodus Doomsayers.

Also OP is doing a 2 unit below another unit, so this is at least 4-units on a lot. Not your standard single family garage ADU. I just permitted a garage ADU using SB9 in LA for 6k in soft costs including the Habitat Study. Though I do have a lot of experience arguing with LA Planning, so that helped.

I'm sure an article by a college professor at USC, posted in the LA times is very accurate with no agenda.
Honestly, from personal experience I can tell you that I have not seen a single "low-income" earner move from CA to Nashville. Brentwood, TN right now is basically the new CA. Brentwood is one of the wealthiest suburbs in Nashville, located in one of the wealthiest counties in the nation and it is where all the CA folks are moving to.
I've personally helped many CA people move here, along with my fellow RE agents and it's all a range from Microsoft execs, business owners, etc. No one I would consider a low income earner as they are all after high dollar homes in the most affluent neighborhoods.
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Bruce WoodruffPro Member
Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
3y
Quote from @Account Closed:

Lol, like @Luka Milicevic said, certainly no bias there! And no truth either. Overwhelmingly the people leaving are high income and the people moving in are low income/no income illegals and homeless....this old story has been disproven over and over for years.
Another feeble attempt by the l*bs in CA trying to color the fact that they are losing over 1000 people each day! And that's net....
1 Reply
Tim G.
Rental Property Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2011 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
3y
In Oceanside ( San Diego) I just paid $7k for plans and engineering for a two-story ADU / JADU design, I have another 4k in Survey work and concrete certificates and about the same in soil testing since it's a two-story. I paid this same architect $3500 for plans for an addition, another $4k in the survey and concrete certs. I chose someone the city quietly recommended, my goal is fast approval and no drama. I've tried corner-cutting in this area and it's cost me so much time in the past.
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Keegan Wetzel
Realtor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2022 · 47 posts · 34 votes
3y
Quote from @Tim G.:

In Oceanside ( San Diego) I just paid $7k for plans and engineering for a two-story ADU / JADU design, I have another 4k in Survey work and concrete certificates and about the same in soil testing since it's a two-story. I paid this same architect $3500 for plans for an addition, another $4k in the survey and concrete certs. I chose someone the city quietly recommended, my goal is fast approval and no drama. I've tried corner-cutting in this area and it's cost me so much time in the past.

@Tim G. I would love to snag that referral from you if possible!
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