Road Costs?

Question

I am looking to develop 300 acres I own near Breckenridge, Colorado. It is high mountain terrain with beautiful vistas. Power is to the lot line and a old forest road meanders through the land.

My question is how much will it cost to improve the road? I am contemplating making it really nice like a cobble stone surface or pavers.

I have about 1 mile of road to improve, which might give me some economies of scale. I plan to visit a stone trade fair in Orlando in April to speak to stone manufacturers about pricing.

Any thoughts?

Account Closed · Answer

The destination resorts around here, where the houses are multi-million dollars, do not have cobblestone roads. They have blacktop. Driveways might be the patterned and dyed blacktop that looks like cobblestone. Mostly, though, they are just blacktop. (Probably heated blacktop, so there is no snow removal)

My town got all fancy and placed red brick strips at the corners of the downtown streets. Downtown is pretty nice, and I guess they thoought they would dress it up. They have had a lot of problems with the brick and trying to maintain it so is continues to look nice.

I think you would get a lot more bang for your buck to install a really fancy huge stone work gateway with some nice landscaping and maybe some white vinyl fencing along the length of the front property line

Chad B. · Answer

OK Toby don't think this will help much but may give you a better idea. I worked on a  4 lot subdivision about 5 years ago with each lot being approximately 2 acres maybe 2.5 acres. Road was about 1000 feet long, blacktop with curbs. We had to do all the infrastructure including sewer, water, gas, electric and had to put in a retention pond and I believe it costs around $1.5M for that work. Add onto that about $200k for some very basic landscaping. This was all relatively flat land compared to your area and all the dirt work was clay not rock so that would be a big difference for you as well. Sorry I don't know what just the road cost because we contracted it out as a package deal and I can't remember that far back. Hell I can't even remember what the original question was but hope this helped.

Toby Munk · Answer

I was thinking 10 feet wide with bays avery x feet for cars to get past each other. When done there will only be 30 homes, and it will be a private road, not county maintained.

Lets say it will be done with pavers. So I would be my own sub. It will include excavation to a certain depth. Laying down the sand and gravel base, then the pavers.

Most parts is low skilled work. The trick is to higher a bunch of people for one summer and have them do it that way.

I agree I might be low, but I will know more at the end of April. I will be visiting a stone expo in Orlando to make some contacts to suppliers.

I hate asking for work if I have no intention on using them. Also I think if you hand the job over and not be involved, YES.. It will be expensive.

Bart Pair · Answer

$200,000 for 1 mile of road at 10,000 feet seems real cheap to me.

I actually interviewed with a civil engineering firm in Breckenridge a few years back (I was living in Fort Collins at the time.).  If I remember they were on French Street.  Not sure if they are still there.

Anyway, just call a firm over there and get a proposal to do a basic site plan with a preliminary cost estimate.  You don't have to hire them to do the whole job, just some preliminary research and planning.

It will be worth it.

Eric Foster · Answer

Let me start by saying "I don’t know anything"... That should cover it…

I just did some quick math, as $200,000k for 1 mile of road seems cheap to me. (Especially a custom road as you are describing!) I have heard of people spending $100,000 for the road for a 12 house subdivision on 5000 sf residential size lots…

I understand there are a lot of variables: i.e. Sidewalks, streetlights, fire hydrants, curbs, gutters, storm drains etc.

Here is my quick math… Average road single lane each way is what, 25 feet wide? 
25ft wide x 5280 feet (1 mile) = 132,000 sf. 200k divided by 132,000 sf of road is $1.50 per square foot? Seems too cheap… But again, I know nothing.

Toby Munk · Answer

Jon,

$200k for 10 acres is not super high end in the mountains and is definitely not Aspen or the likes. In Aspen you can not get an acre for less than $4m.
Then calculate with $700/sqft to build.

So in terms of 12 miles to skiing (which is how far it is for my property) and being in nature it is a bargain.

Well/septic is not a problem. Min acreage is 3 acres to get permits.

I wondered if there is anybody out there that ever built a road?

Jon Holdman · Answer

Honestly, I don't really know if that's worth it or not.  As much as I'd like to get into developing, I have no real experience.

I do think Breck is a differne place than Aspen, Vail, or Beaver Creek.  Is there a market there for these very high end properties?  Are you lots close enough to the lifts to justify the higher prices?

Are you going to be on public utilities?  I think you need 35 acres minimum for private utilities (well & septic).

But, don't rely on me.  I'm just commenting without really knowing.

Jon

Toby Munk · Answer

Wheatie,

here my reason for the over the top concept. I have 31 lots, of which about 12 are on the first mile of road. That is Phase I.
The location is good, not great, the views are great. The access is 2 miles of a county maintained road that is not paved. My lot starts by that road. I will need to big entry with a splash. People will want to see quality if they are to put up with remoteness. Good road is easy to plow. Black top is not going to last long at 10,000 feet. Pavers or cobble stone all depends on the sub structure. If that is done correctly there will be no issues with water and freeze/thaw cycle.

I figured it might be $200k for the 1 mile. That would be a $20k investment or so per lot. I think it will increase lot values by $100k. So it is a 5:1 pay back.

Road will be the last thing I will do, need all the approvals before that. I am not going to risk any money unless I am sure of the end result.

The lots of 10 acres will be worth about $200k each in Phase I, more in Phase II.

What do you think?

Jon Holdman · Answer

Maybe there's lots of rock, but its easy to run into opposition to road improvements.  I'd be sure to do your due diligence about the development before you invest too much.  Surely you've seen some of these development horror stories.

Honestly, though, why would you get too carried away with the road?  I seriously doubt it would add enough value to justify it.  If you want to get fancy, make fancy driveways.  That's going to be plowed over and over and I have to think any sort of pavers will get water penetration, heaving, and then get knocked out by the plows.

Its Breck, not Aspen.  Different market.

Jon

Bart Pair · Answer

REI is right.

For example down here in Florida you can't find rock/gravel required for the subgrade of the road.  And therefore, it is very expensive to haul it in.

In Colorado the sugrade rock is cheap, its everywhere.