Beam too low in bedroom?

Beam too low in bedroom?

Developer · LA, Nashville TN · Member since 2015 · 295 posts · 75 votes

Hi I'm doing a rehab and pulled out walls of a load bearing hallway to combine two bedrooms to a master suite. Problem is a few things, the floor upstairs feels like a trampoline because the old owner who had built the upstairs addition used 4" floor joists instead of 6". My contractor says he can double them up to make them more stable which I hope is correct. 

The other issue is I almost hit my head on this new support beam they put in the ceiling where the hallway walls used to be, but they added it to two 2x4 header beams rather than removing all of those 2x4's and replacing with the beam for some reason. So now the beam is about 2" below the doorway entrance making an odd entry beam lower than the entry door. I think this is unacceptable. My GC says he can cut away half of the beam if we add a closet to the corner of the room which we planned to do up to the beam. 

Any second opinions would be helpful.

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Jared W SmithBusiness Member
Architect · Westchester County, NY · Member since 2018 · 682 posts · 476 votes
7y

Wow.. @Leland S.. @Alan Pederson is right. Firstly let me put my disclaimer out: 

Disclaimer: I am an architect, but I am not YOUR architect. I am not giving professional advice only general information. Contact a local architect/engineer for a detailed consultation specific to your project/locale.

..having said that- Your Contractor is cutting corners and it makes me question if he knows what he's doing. No way 2x4 should be holding any floor. That's against most if not all building codes. The fact that your Contractor is trying to band-aid fix it by adding more 2x4 is a big red flag. Then there's the head height issue. Building codes (here in NY State) say the lowest clear head height is 6'8", but for most spaces it has to be a min. of 7'. So if you are hitting your head than unless you are NBA tall, this shouldn't be happening. 

Who is your architect and/or engineer!? Who designed the headers that way, especially with the top plates remaining in place above support beam? What do the plans say? 

Based on the height of that open door, if this is the low head height area then likely due to the beam installation. The top plates are superficial and unnecessary. Joist should sit on new support. Another option if head height is an issue to complete a flush installation by joist hanging above framing to new beam allowing to eliminate the visible beam altogether. Who's inspecting these? They have a single 2x as shoring/support for the framing above? So so many questions.. 

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  • Rental Property Investor · Amityville, NY · Member since 2018 · 351 posts · 441 votes
    7y

    every REAL LIFE contractor and some real life architects who are responding  are telling you the same thing. 

    -Get this guy off your job.

    -Get a licensed engineer/architect to come up with a plan.

    -Then get a framer or a GC to build.

    That's it, it's pretty easy.

    And you dont need to call the town in order to get an engineer to calculate the loads and draft a plan.

    This guy is costing you money every day. 

    When the framing fails 5 years later it's going to cost you money and possibly a lawsuit.

    And if it doesn't fail it's still going to cost you money when it looks like crap and potential renter or buyer has to duck going from room to room. 

    Maybe there is some people on BP that are from your area that can reccomend a good GC or framer?

  • Developer · LA, Nashville TN · Member since 2015 · 295 posts · 75 votes
    7y

    Looks like his "fix" is in.... Look OK?? I think the deck looks nice. 

    I am sending a licensed engineer out there tomorrow to take a look. 

  • Jared W SmithBusiness Member
    Architect · Westchester County, NY · Member since 2018 · 682 posts · 476 votes
    7y

    It looks like he cut the LVL/Beam to make the doorway. ::facepalm:: 

    I’ll let your engineer fill you in on how bad this is.

    Your contractor is really bad. 

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  • Contractor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2018 · 432 posts · 221 votes
    7y
    @Leland Smith sheesh, these guys are like bats outa Hell! They need someone to taim them! I love the energy I see there and the MXN spirit, and the hussle. Haha, get a 6x6 under that double cantilevered corner on the deck. Yikes, I thought you were at least calling to communicate to this guy “do not cut the beam”. Whew, I still see potential for these guys, but they are all laborers without a foreman/ journeyman Carpenter. Don’t let the inspector see the house. Just try to sweet talk him, walk him AWAY from the job! Don’t know what to say but you should have communicated with this guy before he got started cutting the beam that everyone said not to. The doorways are still incorrect and you should have known this by looking up how to frame a doorway. Very simple stuff. I’ve fixed stuff for people that have learned the hard way and told me “there’s no such thing as cheap labor”. If you didn’t have inspections, you could probably structurally be fine on his door framing. The problem is, you pulled permits that require inspection, then hired someone that looks like 7/8 of their framing was done in Mexico, only problem is, they only build houses with block in Mexico.
  • Rental Property Investor · Amityville, NY · Member since 2018 · 351 posts · 441 votes
    7y

    If you scheduled any inspections, postpone them until you straighten this out. Do not sweet talk the inspector or lead them away from a certain area.

    Have the architect engineer look at deck framing as well. The deck should be on the permit and plans. There will be specific requirements for items like attachment hardware, concrete size and depth, accepted framing sizes and how its assembled. Railing posts need to pass lateral push/pull test. Hard to see from photos.

    Good luck. Ask lots of questions. Ask licensed architect for 2 framer recommendations 

  • Rental Property Investor · Upstate, NY · Member since 2012 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    7y

    Am I missing something in the pic but on the deck shouldn't there be another vertical post support at the outside corner on the right before it goes back towards the second door of the building ???

  • Jared W SmithBusiness Member
    Architect · Westchester County, NY · Member since 2018 · 682 posts · 476 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Pat L.:

    Am I missing something in the pic but on the deck shouldn't there be another vertical post support at the outside corner on the right before it goes back towards the second door of the building ???

     Yup. An unorthodox design and likely to be incorrect from the looks of this contractor's other work.  

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  • Mike ReynoldsPro Member
    construction · Nacogdoches, TX · Member since 2011 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Pat L.:

    Am I missing something in the pic but on the deck shouldn't there be another vertical post support at the outside corner on the right before it goes back towards the second door of the building ???

    Yes unless its in a Dr. Seuss book. I dont even think the posts are spaced evenly.

  • Peter TverdovBusiness Member
    Developer · New Brunswick, NJ · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    7y

    Penny wise and pound foolish

  • Developer · LA, Nashville TN · Member since 2015 · 295 posts · 75 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Jared W Smith:
    Originally posted by @Pat L.:

    Am I missing something in the pic but on the deck shouldn't there be another vertical post support at the outside corner on the right before it goes back towards the second door of the building ???

     Yup. An unorthodox design and likely to be incorrect from the looks of this contractor's other work.  

     My GC was bragging to me about how great of an idea it was so that the cars could easily get passed the area. 

    The engineer said the deck posts were improperly spaced and he has to redo them, he's telling me he's "not redoing anything" just can easily add the posts... All of the jacks in the basement $1300 worth, are temporary jack posts, wasted money and the floor is still uneven, he said he already knew they were temporary except hadn't actually put in any permanent support posts and the jacks were bending. 

    The engineer said it was fine to cut out the beam, apparently it's not an LVL beam which is why it's so dang big. The engineer said he just reduces the calculation of the load based on how much it was cut, I was surprised by this. 

    What is wrong with the door framing now? He does use green card mexican labor, but they aren't exactly that cheap at $200/day. 

  • Developer · LA, Nashville TN · Member since 2015 · 295 posts · 75 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:
    @Leland Smith sheesh, these guys are like bats outa Hell! They need someone to taim them! I love the energy I see there and the MXN spirit, and the hussle. Haha, get a 6x6 under that double cantilevered corner on the deck. Yikes, I thought you were at least calling to communicate to this guy “do not cut the beam”. Whew, I still see potential for these guys, but they are all laborers without a foreman/ journeyman Carpenter. Don’t let the inspector see the house. Just try to sweet talk him, walk him AWAY from the job! Don’t know what to say but you should have communicated with this guy before he got started cutting the beam that everyone said not to. The doorways are still incorrect and you should have known this by looking up how to frame a doorway. Very simple stuff. I’ve fixed stuff for people that have learned the hard way and told me “there’s no such thing as cheap labor”. If you didn’t have inspections, you could probably structurally be fine on his door framing. The problem is, you pulled permits that require inspection, then hired someone that looks like 7/8 of their framing was done in Mexico, only problem is, they only build houses with block in Mexico.

     Jonathan, how are the door frames still incorrect? I haven't had anybody familiar with framing review in person, so I don't know. 

  • Contractor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2018 · 432 posts · 221 votes
    7y
    @Leland Smith The doors are supposed to be framed with a king stud, trimmer/jack stud, header and cripples or a really big header. Just google how to frame a doorway. I think his stuff will hold. It’s just, anybody that looks at framing, like an inspector is going to see their not speaking his language. He will read “Illegal Mexican (no green card) work”. I’m fine with the hussle of these guys and I would be a total can doer and do the same thing as them, getting work where you can, but they need someone to taim them, or they should do jobs that don’t require inspections! Construction is about 90% smarts and 10% strength. These guys have tons of Monster energy, with 50% smarts. No offense brother, but you should have already known what a doorway looks like framed by now. Walk a few job sites you find on the side of the road. Good for you, getting the engineer. He’s right, cutting the beam by shaving it down doesn’t kill it, just reduces the load potential, but a cut beam speaks all sorts of bad things to an inspector and the way it continues over doorways. It seems you could really use a little experience framing if you’re not getting it. It’s really easy to get work for a framer for a few days doing labor. You should do it and you’ll learn all about the basics. Keep going!
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