Fence dispute with neighbor, input based on your knowledge appreciated

Tacoma, Washington
General Real Estate Investing
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Fence dispute with neighbor, input based on your knowledge appreciated

Jack B.
Rental Property Investor · Seattle, WA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes

I have a rental property where:

1) The neighbor has a fence that is aligned with a telephone pole which may be the property marker. Long before he or I owned our houses at this location, the neighbor/owner at the time built a fence against a hill on my property. That hill collapsed a bit and damaged his fence, pushing it over a few inches. 

2) The fence still functions as a fence and works just fine. 

3) The neighbor appears to be mentally ill, he texts me regularly demanding to know when I will do X, then Y, then Z. He demands regular updates.

4) I hired a guy to dig the hill away from his fence, but he now demands I build a retaining wall and pay to repair his fence. 

5) His driveway runs through  MY property and shares MY driveway...there is no easement on record with the county for this. Title search only found an easement for the installation of a well. That's it.


How do I get this guy off my back? Or just ignore him?

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Bruce WoodruffPro Member
Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
2y

I would want to know exactly where the property line is and who owns what. And who has responsibility for what.

Even if you go the Lawyer route, they will insist on getting a surveyor anyway. Might as well spend the money now and know the facts.

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  • Tony Savage
    Real Estate Broker · San Diego, CA · Member since 2016 · 187 posts · 117 votes
    2y

    Hi Jack,

    You may want to speak with a real estate attorney. This neighbor sounds like a nuisance.  I'm sure you don't have to build a retaining wall. You may have to repair his fence if in fact that part of the hill that fell on his fence is on your property.

    If your driveway is not shared and there is no easement of record showing that it is a shared driveway and it is in fact your property you can tell him to stop parking on your property.

    Like I said you may want to speak with an attorney.

    1Reply
  • Nathan Harden
    Real Estate Agent · Puyallup, WA · Member since 2022 · 551 posts · 379 votes
    2y

    Just ignore him. If he wants to try and get some higher up authorities involved, then go from there if that day ever comes.

    Call his bluff essentially. Then if he continues to bug you, bring up the driveway and ask if he wants to go down the route of the fence then you'll explore the driveway issue at the same time.

    2Reply
  • Bruce WoodruffPro Member
    Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
    2y

    I would want to know exactly where the property line is and who owns what. And who has responsibility for what.

    Even if you go the Lawyer route, they will insist on getting a surveyor anyway. Might as well spend the money now and know the facts.

    4Reply
  • Jack B.
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Seattle, WA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Nathan Harden:

    Just ignore him. If he wants to try and get some higher up authorities involved, then go from there if that day ever comes.

    Call his bluff essentially. Then if he continues to bug you, bring up the driveway and ask if he wants to go down the route of the fence then you'll explore the driveway issue at the same time.


     This is brilliant. I can word it carefully too. "While exploring the fence situation I also explored the driveway with no easement situation and decided to implement a fee to help me cover the taxes and maintenance of the section of my parcel that is paved and dedicated for your use as a driveway."

    2Reply
  • Jack B.
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Seattle, WA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Nathan Harden:

    Just ignore him. If he wants to try and get some higher up authorities involved, then go from there if that day ever comes.

    Call his bluff essentially. Then if he continues to bug you, bring up the driveway and ask if he wants to go down the route of the fence then you'll explore the driveway issue at the same time.

     I was able to find this after all, even though the county records showed no easement, a document search showed one. It was granted to some water company, but it looks like what I suspect to be general easement terms for ingress and egress that would give him right to use my driveway after all, bummer...

    1Reply
  • Jack B.
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Seattle, WA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    2y

    FYSA, I did consult an attorney on this. He said I could use Etsy to send a cheap cease and desist letter. WA law requires us to split the cost of a fence IF my property uses his fence to enclose itself. But in that section, it doesn't, since he has to use my driveway to access his property. Moreover, I pointed out and sent him a picture, that I had someone dig the dirt away from the fence and the fence (chainlinked) is still standing. My guy bent it upright a bit too. If you saw the picture, it's standing just fine and functions just fine as a fence. I feel like I took reasonable steps to move the dirt, the fence is still functioning as a fence. I can't see him trying to hire an attorney to sue me for this. I would think a judge would see that I took reasonable steps, the fence and hill have been like that for years before he and I bought our houses there, and the fence functions just fine. 

    This guy was ex military police and seems to be an authoritarian who thinks everyone is under him because he thinks he's still a Sergeant.

    0Reply
  • Chris SeveneyBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Jack B.:

    I have a rental property where:

    1) The neighbor has a fence that is aligned with a telephone pole which may be the property marker. Long before he or I owned our houses at this location, the neighbor/owner at the time built a fence against a hill on my property. That hill collapsed a bit and damaged his fence, pushing it over a few inches. 

    2) The fence still functions as a fence and works just fine. 

    3) The neighbor appears to be mentally ill, he texts me regularly demanding to know when I will do X, then Y, then Z. He demands regular updates.

    4) I hired a guy to dig the hill away from his fence, but he now demands I build a retaining wall and pay to repair his fence. 

    5) His driveway runs through  MY property and shares MY driveway...there is no easement on record with the county for this. Title search only found an easement for the installation of a well. That's it.


    How do I get this guy off my back? Or just ignore him?


     You can speak with an attorney but prior to that get a professional survey done. that will then tell you where everything is located. 

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  • Nathan Harden
    Real Estate Agent · Puyallup, WA · Member since 2022 · 551 posts · 379 votes
    2y
    Quote from @Jack B.:
    Quote from @Nathan Harden:

    Just ignore him. If he wants to try and get some higher up authorities involved, then go from there if that day ever comes.

    Call his bluff essentially. Then if he continues to bug you, bring up the driveway and ask if he wants to go down the route of the fence then you'll explore the driveway issue at the same time.

     I was able to find this after all, even though the county records showed no easement, a document search showed one. It was granted to some water company, but it looks like what I suspect to be general easement terms for ingress and egress that would give him right to use my driveway after all, bummer...


     I mean, do you think the guy would ever be able to find this...? Or put in the effort to find this? I still think you sit back and call his bluff about him doing anything about it. Again, that's just my opinion.

    0Reply
  • Jack B.
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Seattle, WA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Nathan Harden:
    Quote from @Jack B.:
    Quote from @Nathan Harden:

    Just ignore him. If he wants to try and get some higher up authorities involved, then go from there if that day ever comes.

    Call his bluff essentially. Then if he continues to bug you, bring up the driveway and ask if he wants to go down the route of the fence then you'll explore the driveway issue at the same time.

     I was able to find this after all, even though the county records showed no easement, a document search showed one. It was granted to some water company, but it looks like what I suspect to be general easement terms for ingress and egress that would give him right to use my driveway after all, bummer...


     I mean, do you think the guy would ever be able to find this...? Or put in the effort to find this? I still think you sit back and call his bluff about him doing anything about it. Again, that's just my opinion.


     The guy is retired Military Police, Sergeant Major, it's like the highest rank for an enlisted (not commissioned Officer), my buddy immediately almost collapsed, citing that when he was in the military, guys like this were huge aholes and liked to bully people around them. He said now that this guys is retired he has no outlet. If I ignore him long enough he will go away. Said it's unlikely that he will escalate to a lawsuit over the fence.  

    Ultimately I hired a guy to dig the dirt away from the fence and the fence was bent upright a bit more, you can't even tell it was leaning anymore really. The neighbor even sent ME a picture of it after it was bent upright more. Still functions as a fence. I highly doubt a judge would make me replace the whole fence. I took reasonable steps IMO and the fence still serves it's purpose. The guy is just an ahole. Thoughts?

    0Reply
  • Tom GimerBusiness Member
    DMV · Member since 2017 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    2y

    @Jack B. A non-exclusive easement granted to a utility company, including reference to ingress and egress, doesn’t grant anyone other than the utility company any property rights. Period. 

    Hire a surveyor and a real estate attorney (if necessary) to iron this out. Everything may be resolved with a drawing and a discussion. If not, a single letter from your attorney would help in several ways including preventing and defending a future QT action. 

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  • Steve K.
    Realtor · Boulder, CO · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    2y

    Sounds like you did the right thing on the fence, so hopefully that gets him off your back.

    Regarding the shared driveway without a written easement recorded: if it's his only ingress/egress to his property and he has been using it for a long time, he may have what's called an implied easement at this point (at least that's what it's called in my state, laws are different in every state). Research implied easement, easement by necessity, easement by prior use, easement by prescriptive or adverse use, and easement by estoppel to see if any of those apply to your situation. I can't imagine that whoever built his property would have been able to get a building permit without legal access to the property, as that's one of the first things the AHJ wants to know, so there's got to be some type of easement I would think (or a court would probably grant him one if it came to that). Maybe the lots used to be together and were split? 

    1Reply
  • Bruce WoodruffPro Member
    Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
    2y

    You've been advised several times to get a surveyor out and determine where your property line actually is. Have you done this yet?

    0Reply
  • Christie Gahan
    Investor · Hillsboro, OR · Member since 2016 · 304 posts · 153 votes
    2y

    "He appears to be crazy" ?   Have you asked your tenants if he is bothering them? 

    The point of getting a survey sounds reasonable.  I don't think the placement of the power pole is relevant.

    Get a PO Box and ask him to communicate via mail.  Keep it all.  Block his calls.

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