WTF is wrong with this investor?

WTF is wrong with this investor?

Engelo RumoraBusiness Member
Investor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes

G'Day everyone,

Nobody talks much about the S#@% that real estate service providers put with.

All we mostly see is the bad reviews from unsatisfied investors talking smack on all of us.

So, I’m glad the thread I started a few weeks ago got traction and that many of you agreed.

You can read more here - https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/48/topics/1170821-wtf-i...

I'm also happy to share some further light on the disrespect, incompetence and ignorance that we sometimes have to deal with.

Here is a recent situation and unfortunately I’ve experienced hundreds like it over the the years.

I guess common courtesy and common sense aren't so common nowadays.

@Jay Hinrichs You're gonna love this one... 

Here it goes:

1) Investor fills out our app.

2) Investor quickly submits POF.

3) Investor answers pre-qualification questions.

4) Call scheduled with me and we talk for a good 60min and have a fantastic call (Investor is made aware of our entire business model and how we operate. I share that some deals aren't yet fully turnkey as we are currently rehabbing them just so we are on the same page. Investors reserve a property in advance and wait for rehab completion. All is clear, investor understands and is satisfied 👍)

5) Investor is sent our FAQ link for the second time along with a link to hundreds of YouTube video's on our channel (We have been in business for 10+ years and have heard every question asked so there is almost no question that we haven't already answered via the auto email sequence, the content on our website, pre-qualification emails, during the investor on-boarding and during the intro call with Engelo).

6) Investor promptly signs refundable deposit agreement (All good so far, right?).

6) I start sending our exclusive deals in advance of receiving the deposit due to how good we both felt on the call (My mistake).

7) Investor "openly and honestly" questions our business model and wants to know how we make money. I "openly and honestly" in much detail share with chapter long emails (Which I normally never do) what I learnt from the great @Chris Clothier. And that is that we make as much money on every deal as we possible can but we still keep the price at fair market value. "Price is what you pay and value is what you get" - Warren Buffett. My thought process was that I was dealing with a sophisticated individual that understands that a company needs to be profitable in order to be able to offer a valuable service. The investor even nonchalantly said that I don't have to reveal our numbers. (My mistake #2).

8) Investor makes BS excuse that the properties need too much rehab (By the way, the rehab that the investor doesn't do as that is our job/risk and the investor is more than welcome to do a building inspection once the rehab is completed. ZERO risk to investor and all was already covered during our 60min call).

9) Investor never sends the deposit.

10) Investor doesn't reply to follow up emails, txt's or phone calls.

11) Investor rudely tells my assistant to remove him from the list and hangs up on her.

There you have it folks.

Another day in the office and again just one instance out of hundreds that I could write 13 books on what we have experienced since 2014.

I guess the lesson is that we all need to be "Kings that cry poor".

It seems like nobody is happy, if you're happy and nobody wants you to do well and make money.

Everyone seems to want the best deal possible for the lowest price possible even if that comes at the detriment to someone else.

I'm exaggerating but from a philosophical standpoint, human nature is to feel "more accomplished" and "more satisfied" when knowing someone else pulled out the shorter straw.

It took me many years of self reflection to master this internal concept of "understanding, empathy and compassion" toward others...

Would love your thoughts on the above?

Happy Investing 🏠

Happy Weekend ☀️

God Bless America 🇺🇸

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Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes
2y
Quote from @Engelo Rumora:

G'Day everyone,

Nobody talks much about the S#@% that real estate service providers put with.

All we mostly see is the bad reviews from unsatisfied investors talking smack on all of us.

So, I’m glad the thread I started a few weeks ago got traction and that many of you agreed.

You can read more here - https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/48/topics/1170821-wtf-i...

I'm also happy to share some further light on the disrespect, incompetence and ignorance that we sometimes have to deal with.

Here is a recent situation and unfortunately I’ve experienced hundreds like it over the the years.

I guess common courtesy and common sense aren't so common nowadays.

@Jay Hinrichs You're gonna love this one... 

Here it goes:

1) Investor fills out our app.

2) Investor quickly submits POF.

3) Investor answers pre-qualification questions.

4) Call scheduled with me and we talk for a good 60min and have a fantastic call (Investor is made aware of our entire business model and how we operate. I share that some deals aren't yet fully turnkey as we are currently rehabbing them just so we are on the same page. Investors reserve a property in advance and wait for rehab completion. All is clear, investor understands and is satisfied 👍)

5) Investor is sent our FAQ link for the second time along with a link to hundreds of YouTube video's on our channel (We have been in business for 10+ years and have heard every question asked so there is almost no question that we haven't already answered via the auto email sequence, the content on our website, pre-qualification emails, during the investor on-boarding and during the intro call with Engelo).

6) Investor promptly signs refundable deposit agreement (All good so far, right?).

6) I start sending our exclusive deals in advance of receiving the deposit due to how good we both felt on the call (My mistake).

7) Investor "openly and honestly" questions our business model and wants to know how we make money. I "openly and honestly" in much detail share with chapter long emails (Which I normally never do) what I learnt from the great @Chris Clothier. And that is that we make as much money on every deal as we possible can but we still keep the price at fair market value. "Price is what you pay and value is what you get" - Warren Buffett. My thought process was that I was dealing with a sophisticated individual that understands that a company needs to be profitable in order to be able to offer a valuable service. The investor even nonchalantly said that I don't have to reveal our numbers. (My mistake #2).

8) Investor makes BS excuse that the properties need too much rehab (By the way, the rehab that the investor doesn't do as that is our job/risk and the investor is more than welcome to do a building inspection once the rehab is completed. ZERO risk to investor and all was already covered during our 60min call).

9) Investor never sends the deposit.

10) Investor doesn't reply to follow up emails, txt's or phone calls.

11) Investor rudely tells my assistant to remove him from the list and hangs up on her.

There you have it folks.

Another day in the office and again just one instance out of hundreds that I could write 13 books on what we have experienced since 2014.

I guess the lesson is that we all need to be "Kings that cry poor".

It seems like nobody is happy, if you're happy and nobody wants you to do well and make money.

Everyone seems to want the best deal possible for the lowest price possible even if that comes at the detriment to someone else.

I'm exaggerating but from a philosophical standpoint, human nature is to feel "more accomplished" and "more satisfied" when knowing someone else pulled out the shorter straw.

It took me many years of self reflection to master this internal concept of "understanding, empathy and compassion" toward others...

Would love your thoughts on the above?

Happy Investing 🏠

Happy Weekend ☀️

God Bless America 🇺🇸


 I was with you right up till the refundable deposit.......What's the point of a deposit if it's refundable? You need to make that bad boy NON refundable.

See this reply in the discussion

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  • Engelo RumoraBusiness Member
    OP
    Investor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
    Quote from @Engelo Rumora:
    Quote from @Dan H.:
    Quote from @Engelo Rumora:
    Quote from @Dan H.:

    I do not see anything wrong from either party.

    “Everyone seems to want the best deal possible for the lowest price possible even if that comes at the detriment to someone else.”. True.  Buyers want the lowest price.  

    Conversely, sellers want the best deal possible for the highest price possible even if that comes at the detriment to someone else.

    By the way I view both views as capitalism. Buyer tries to purchase cheap as they can obtain, seller tries to sell at highest price they can obtain. Nothing wrong with either perspective. A transaction occurs when both parties are content with the price and terms

    He did not want what you were selling at your price/terms and it may have been your profit amount.  It happens.  Nothing wrong with it. 

    Good luck


    I see it as communism mate

    Folks want something for nothing.

    In my world, thing's don't work that way.

    Definitely my mistake for revealing profit.

    I'l cry poor next time as the communist orientated folks would probably prefer it that way.

    Jokes hehe

     It is capitalism because he did not get it and he was not expecting to get it for nothing.  He wanted it as cheap as possible.  You wanted to get as much as possible.  The two parties could not come to agreeable terms for both parties.  Capitalism.  

    Little different than you going to the car dealer to purchase a new car.   The dealer wants to obtain as much as possible.  You want to buy as cheap as possible.  Just because you walk away from the purchase if the dealer cannot sell it for what you desire to pay (as cheap as possible) does not mean it is communism.  It also is capitalism.

    I suspect the purchaser would have purchased if you dropped your asking price significantly.  They do not want it for nothing but they want it as cheap as possible.  You did not come to terms agreeable to both parties so there was no transaction.  Capitalism.   You were disappointed because you wanted your profit.  

    I quit my w2.  Ex-employer would like me to consult.  I listed the price necessary to consult.   They say they cannot afford that price.  I question if they can afford to not pay my price.  They offered a lot but still much lower than what I told them.  I told them no.  They asked if I was going to counter. I told them that I told them what it would take.  we did not come to terms that satisfy both parties.  It is capitalism even if my ex-employer is not happy about it.

    Best wishes



    I mean we can play with words till the cows come home.

    At the end of the day, the investor didn't invest because he wanted something for nothing.

    When I go to a dealer I don't expect a car for free, or a service for free.

    Same as when I got for a burger to McDonalds lol

    Cheap as possible could be $0 which = Communism, right?

    Or does $1 make it Capitalism?

    Isn't the terminology "expecting something for nothing" communistic?

    Be it a service or product...

    Not disappointed and it is what it is.

    It's a common trend nowadays anyway with folks expecting something for nothing.

    Your former employer is a capitalist because he is an "employer".

    He didn't expect you to work for free.

    Thanks.

    ps. Investor recently reached out again and now wants to invest.

    I change my mind, it's actually not communism.

    It's insanity... hehe

    Engelo you did what is commonly called by professional Sales folks.. THE TAKE AWAY CLOSE it works great in certain situations.


    Only difference with me is mate that I truly take it away haha

    Not in it for the dime when it comes to such instances.

    Engelo Rumora doesn't have a price and NEVER will.

    Not too proud, just know the long term consequences of converting the sale.

    Maybe I'm the communist that doesn't want to take money when offered hehe

    Thanks mate and Viva Las Vegas
  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Engelo Rumora:
    Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
    Quote from @Engelo Rumora:
    Quote from @Dan H.:
    Quote from @Engelo Rumora:
    Quote from @Dan H.:

    I do not see anything wrong from either party.

    “Everyone seems to want the best deal possible for the lowest price possible even if that comes at the detriment to someone else.”. True.  Buyers want the lowest price.  

    Conversely, sellers want the best deal possible for the highest price possible even if that comes at the detriment to someone else.

    By the way I view both views as capitalism. Buyer tries to purchase cheap as they can obtain, seller tries to sell at highest price they can obtain. Nothing wrong with either perspective. A transaction occurs when both parties are content with the price and terms

    He did not want what you were selling at your price/terms and it may have been your profit amount.  It happens.  Nothing wrong with it. 

    Good luck


    I see it as communism mate

    Folks want something for nothing.

    In my world, thing's don't work that way.

    Definitely my mistake for revealing profit.

    I'l cry poor next time as the communist orientated folks would probably prefer it that way.

    Jokes hehe

     It is capitalism because he did not get it and he was not expecting to get it for nothing.  He wanted it as cheap as possible.  You wanted to get as much as possible.  The two parties could not come to agreeable terms for both parties.  Capitalism.  

    Little different than you going to the car dealer to purchase a new car.   The dealer wants to obtain as much as possible.  You want to buy as cheap as possible.  Just because you walk away from the purchase if the dealer cannot sell it for what you desire to pay (as cheap as possible) does not mean it is communism.  It also is capitalism.

    I suspect the purchaser would have purchased if you dropped your asking price significantly.  They do not want it for nothing but they want it as cheap as possible.  You did not come to terms agreeable to both parties so there was no transaction.  Capitalism.   You were disappointed because you wanted your profit.  

    I quit my w2.  Ex-employer would like me to consult.  I listed the price necessary to consult.   They say they cannot afford that price.  I question if they can afford to not pay my price.  They offered a lot but still much lower than what I told them.  I told them no.  They asked if I was going to counter. I told them that I told them what it would take.  we did not come to terms that satisfy both parties.  It is capitalism even if my ex-employer is not happy about it.

    Best wishes



    I mean we can play with words till the cows come home.

    At the end of the day, the investor didn't invest because he wanted something for nothing.

    When I go to a dealer I don't expect a car for free, or a service for free.

    Same as when I got for a burger to McDonalds lol

    Cheap as possible could be $0 which = Communism, right?

    Or does $1 make it Capitalism?

    Isn't the terminology "expecting something for nothing" communistic?

    Be it a service or product...

    Not disappointed and it is what it is.

    It's a common trend nowadays anyway with folks expecting something for nothing.

    Your former employer is a capitalist because he is an "employer".

    He didn't expect you to work for free.

    Thanks.

    ps. Investor recently reached out again and now wants to invest.

    I change my mind, it's actually not communism.

    It's insanity... hehe

    Engelo you did what is commonly called by professional Sales folks.. THE TAKE AWAY CLOSE it works great in certain situations.


    Only difference with me is mate that I truly take it away haha

    Not in it for the dime when it comes to such instances.

    Engelo Rumora doesn't have a price and NEVER will.

    Not too proud, just know the long term consequences of converting the sale.

    Maybe I'm the communist that doesn't want to take money when offered hehe

    Thanks mate and Viva Las Vegas

     Yup 72 and sunny today.. :)  although Snowing today at my house in Portland :)

  • Engelo RumoraBusiness Member
    OP
    Investor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
    Quote from @Engelo Rumora:
    Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
    Quote from @Engelo Rumora:
    Quote from @Dan H.:
    Quote from @Engelo Rumora:
    Quote from @Dan H.:

    I do not see anything wrong from either party.

    “Everyone seems to want the best deal possible for the lowest price possible even if that comes at the detriment to someone else.”. True.  Buyers want the lowest price.  

    Conversely, sellers want the best deal possible for the highest price possible even if that comes at the detriment to someone else.

    By the way I view both views as capitalism. Buyer tries to purchase cheap as they can obtain, seller tries to sell at highest price they can obtain. Nothing wrong with either perspective. A transaction occurs when both parties are content with the price and terms

    He did not want what you were selling at your price/terms and it may have been your profit amount.  It happens.  Nothing wrong with it. 

    Good luck


    I see it as communism mate

    Folks want something for nothing.

    In my world, thing's don't work that way.

    Definitely my mistake for revealing profit.

    I'l cry poor next time as the communist orientated folks would probably prefer it that way.

    Jokes hehe

     It is capitalism because he did not get it and he was not expecting to get it for nothing.  He wanted it as cheap as possible.  You wanted to get as much as possible.  The two parties could not come to agreeable terms for both parties.  Capitalism.  

    Little different than you going to the car dealer to purchase a new car.   The dealer wants to obtain as much as possible.  You want to buy as cheap as possible.  Just because you walk away from the purchase if the dealer cannot sell it for what you desire to pay (as cheap as possible) does not mean it is communism.  It also is capitalism.

    I suspect the purchaser would have purchased if you dropped your asking price significantly.  They do not want it for nothing but they want it as cheap as possible.  You did not come to terms agreeable to both parties so there was no transaction.  Capitalism.   You were disappointed because you wanted your profit.  

    I quit my w2.  Ex-employer would like me to consult.  I listed the price necessary to consult.   They say they cannot afford that price.  I question if they can afford to not pay my price.  They offered a lot but still much lower than what I told them.  I told them no.  They asked if I was going to counter. I told them that I told them what it would take.  we did not come to terms that satisfy both parties.  It is capitalism even if my ex-employer is not happy about it.

    Best wishes



    I mean we can play with words till the cows come home.

    At the end of the day, the investor didn't invest because he wanted something for nothing.

    When I go to a dealer I don't expect a car for free, or a service for free.

    Same as when I got for a burger to McDonalds lol

    Cheap as possible could be $0 which = Communism, right?

    Or does $1 make it Capitalism?

    Isn't the terminology "expecting something for nothing" communistic?

    Be it a service or product...

    Not disappointed and it is what it is.

    It's a common trend nowadays anyway with folks expecting something for nothing.

    Your former employer is a capitalist because he is an "employer".

    He didn't expect you to work for free.

    Thanks.

    ps. Investor recently reached out again and now wants to invest.

    I change my mind, it's actually not communism.

    It's insanity... hehe

    Engelo you did what is commonly called by professional Sales folks.. THE TAKE AWAY CLOSE it works great in certain situations.


    Only difference with me is mate that I truly take it away haha

    Not in it for the dime when it comes to such instances.

    Engelo Rumora doesn't have a price and NEVER will.

    Not too proud, just know the long term consequences of converting the sale.

    Maybe I'm the communist that doesn't want to take money when offered hehe

    Thanks mate and Viva Las Vegas

     Yup 72 and sunny today.. :)  although Snowing today at my house in Portland :)


    In the 80s in Dallas mate

    In my Speedo's and working hehe

    In Toledo next week.

    Got a bed set up in my office like the good old days

    Gotta hustle mate.

    PM is booming, need to get it to 2,000 units.

    Wanna finance me for an M&A? haha

    Nobody local replying to me when I ask to buy their biz.

    Toledo never liked me that much but I can't blame them.

    I don't think they like anyone that has left the city further than a 100miles in a lifetime hehehe

  • Joe S.Pro Member
    Investor · San Antonio · Member since 2020 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    2y


    Have you considered getting an assistant trained since you are such an important fellow?? 😊

  • Engelo RumoraBusiness Member
    OP
    Investor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Joe S.:


    Have you considered getting an assistant trained since you are such an important fellow?? 😊


    Who? Jay or me? Are you offering yourself as an assistant Joe?  Haha jokes mate lol 
     

  • Joe S.Pro Member
    Investor · San Antonio · Member since 2020 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Engelo Rumora:
    Quote from @Joe S.:


    Have you considered getting an assistant trained since you are such an important fellow?? 😊


    Who? Jay or me? Are you offering yourself as an assistant Joe?  Haha jokes mate lol 
     

     Well, you’re the one that started the thread that’s why I did not necessarily tag you. 

    As far as me being your assistant, I was not volunteering. It would be a bit difficult for you being somebody’s employee as well after running your own ship.

  • Engelo RumoraBusiness Member
    OP
    Investor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Joe S.:
    Quote from @Engelo Rumora:
    Quote from @Joe S.:


    Have you considered getting an assistant trained since you are such an important fellow?? 😊


    Who? Jay or me? Are you offering yourself as an assistant Joe?  Haha jokes mate lol 
     


     Well, you’re the one that started the thread that’s why I did not necessarily tag you. 

    As far as me being your assistant, I was not volunteering. Business owners do not usually make good employees.😁



    To become a good leader, one must first be a good follower. Just before COVID mate we virtualized 70% or so of our operation. Great timing right? Was lucky to be honest lol. It was a blessing mate. I have 2 remote workers assisting me with the day to day. Wouldn’t change it for anything. Before that I had 7 assistants and they all couldn’t handle the pressure haha good luck putting up with me. Granted, I’m quite a bit more mature nowadays so would run things differently. But have seen the holy grail with remote workers and digitizing everything so it’s hard to even consider going back to 50 people in an office lol Keeping it a lean machine 

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