I always invest in things I understand and have knowledge of, so I would say start with that.
I always invest in things I understand and have knowledge of, so I would say start with that.
I'd do a BRRR, purchase cash and use my funds for the rehab. It would be locally in my area. I am in the Midwest so feasible compared to LA.
I'd do a BRRR, purchase cash and use my funds for the rehab. It would be locally in my area. I am in the Midwest so feasible compared to LA.
Would you do a single family BRRR or multi-family?
I'd do a BRRR, purchase cash and use my funds for the rehab. It would be locally in my area. I am in the Midwest so feasible compared to LA.
Would you do a single family BRRR or multi-family?
Single. Hard to find multi family you can BRRR and higher price point
I know its a broad question but all answers are welcome
What are your goals? Are you an active or passive investor? Do you want to use this money in 12-24 months? I would suggest provide some more specifics to give you better ideas!
I know its a broad question but all answers are welcome
@Andre Lai
Very broad and it would depend on a lot of different factors. Assuming I am a single guy, and I am renting I would house hack a MF property, ideally a 4-unit. The idea would be at best case I would cash flow but at minimum it will make my house payment lower than my rent. Then I would manage the building to bring rents to market and cutting expenses. Once I saved enough money, I would buy my next MF property and house hack again making sure when I move out the 1st 4-plex is cash flow positive.
If you are married or have any kids that all gets thrown out the window haha. Then I am probably going 2-4unit property in the mid-west that cash flows day one. Ideally it is a value-add deal to try to brrrr the property to force appreciation and get some money back out to buy the next.
If it is your first deal I would not worry about maxing out the leverage or hitting a home run. You just need a solid base hit. A cash flowing property in a good area that you plan on holding for the foreseeable future. You do not need to spend the whole $100k on the first deal. It is ok to have a reserve account.
@Andre Lai
Very broad and it would depend on a lot of different factors. Assuming I am a single guy, and I am renting I would house hack a MF property, ideally a 4-unit. The idea would be at best case I would cash flow but at minimum it will make my house payment lower than my rent. Then I would manage the building to bring rents to market and cutting expenses. Once I saved enough money, I would buy my next MF property and house hack again making sure when I move out the 1st 4-plex is cash flow positive.
If you are married or have any kids that all gets thrown out the window haha. Then I am probably going 2-4unit property in the mid-west that cash flows day one. Ideally it is a value-add deal to try to brrrr the property to force appreciation and get some money back out to buy the next.
If it is your first deal I would not worry about maxing out the leverage or hitting a home run. You just need a solid base hit. A cash flowing property in a good area that you plan on holding for the foreseeable future. You do not need to spend the whole $100k on the first deal. It is ok to have a reserve account.
I actually ended up doing the house hacking route. Bought a single family home on a big lot and added 2 ADUs. I live in the Bay Area and doing that is still negative cash flow and there has been no appreciation since I bought it (2023). So now I'm selling it and want to invest the money out of state instead (which is what you mentioned in your second option). I believe the money will work faster elsewhere. Now the next problem to solve is to figure out what market to invest in. People say mid-west but how do I know what part? How do I know if I'm catching the tail end of the wave and late to the party?
@Andre Lai
Very broad and it would depend on a lot of different factors. Assuming I am a single guy, and I am renting I would house hack a MF property, ideally a 4-unit. The idea would be at best case I would cash flow but at minimum it will make my house payment lower than my rent. Then I would manage the building to bring rents to market and cutting expenses. Once I saved enough money, I would buy my next MF property and house hack again making sure when I move out the 1st 4-plex is cash flow positive.
If you are married or have any kids that all gets thrown out the window haha. Then I am probably going 2-4unit property in the mid-west that cash flows day one. Ideally it is a value-add deal to try to brrrr the property to force appreciation and get some money back out to buy the next.
If it is your first deal I would not worry about maxing out the leverage or hitting a home run. You just need a solid base hit. A cash flowing property in a good area that you plan on holding for the foreseeable future. You do not need to spend the whole $100k on the first deal. It is ok to have a reserve account.
I actually ended up doing the house hacking route. Bought a single family home on a big lot and added 2 ADUs. I live in the Bay Area and doing that is still negative cash flow and there has been no appreciation since I bought it (2023). So now I'm selling it and want to invest the money out of state instead (which is what you mentioned in your second option). I believe the money will work faster elsewhere. Now the next problem to solve is to figure out what market to invest in. People say mid-west but how do I know what part? How do I know if I'm catching the tail end of the wave and late to the party?
I think you purchased at a very challenging time for residential RE and that has likely played a bigger role in your return than the market you selected. Historically the San Francisco market whoops the returns of the Midwest markets.
You already indicated that you did not perform your own underwriting. Re agents want to sell properties. The amount of bs they spiel is incredible. One agent on this forum recently indicated his admitted fabricated (pulled out of thin air) maintenance/cap ex forecast was more accurate than my forecast calculated by using costs and lifespans. I know it seems absurd, but not so much if you recognize he makes his living selling RE and that accurate underwriting numbers show RE is challenging.
I question if you understood the value of adding the ADUs. NAR recently pulled their ADU data on the premise of it being old. It was old, but old data is better than no data. If I had known they were going to pull the data without replacing it, I would have copied the data. It is my belief they pulled the data because it was contrary to NAR's best interest. The data showed in virtually every large city that ADUs added far less value than the hands off cost of adding the ADU. The NAR data showed in San Diego (my market) that ADUs added less than $20k of value per the sales data.
It is my belief that if you purchase rent ready or near rent ready via traditional process to LTR that it is unlikely to have a return that justifies the effort and the risk. I have not done a full tradition purchase in many years. Non-traditional purchase often have increased risks and/of increased effort on top of understanding how to comp,etc the non-traditional purchase.
Note RE is not the only investment option and actively owned residential is not the only RE investment.
Are you an accredited investor? Syndication let experts in RE do the heavy lifting. Of course they take their cut for their expertise and effort. Do thorough research. Vet the operator at least as much as the deal. If either the deal or operator are not first rate, then skip and vet another.
There are other RE options more passive than small unit residential. Nnn, industrial, office space, self storage, etc.
Sp500 has lifetime return of ~10% and 5 year return over 13%. Fab 5, mag 7 much higher. Granted they cannot increase in value like they have indefinitely, but do you believe this is the year they increase less than the sp500?
Various private equity funds. Individual stocks (space x ipo is imminent). Crypto (I have never invested in crypto but wish I had immediately after Trump won presidency). Mineral rights. Etc. The options are almost limitless. There are a lot of good opportunities. I have made a lot of money via 3 different types of investments including RE (but I entered RE when cash flow was easy and appreciation was great - it was almost cannot miss if you used leverage). Note I am in search of number 4.
Is active residential RE really the best option for you especially at this time? I lean no for the majority of less experienced RE investors but only you can decide for you. Note RE agents, lenders, PMs, etc have a vested interest in getting people to invest in RE. It is a rare RE agent that indicates it is a poor time to be investing in RE. They will point to all times have opportunities. They are not wrong but why they think a newbie is likely to get good opportunities when there is not enough opportunities for the experienced investors is the flaw in their thinking.
Good luck
OP. You have way more options with your first investment than multi-investors. What is your personal housing, job and family situation?
Look at your House Hack. What are the units? Which are you living in? Do you need to flip your living from say the larger unit say 1,500 sqft to let's say you stayed in a 600 sqft ADU. Do the numbers work.
When you say your House Hack didn't cash flow. How did you calculate it? Did you include your personal housing cost? If you moved out of the House Hack how would that impact your cash flow calcs. Plus is there a lower housing cost you can move into?
Depending on your location, can you do MTR on the ADU or original house for say Traveling Nurses and get a higher rental rate?
Your also in an unusual location in the Bay area. My son just moved to San Diego with the Navy, so I looked to see if there was a housing deal, which I couldn't find a way even with his Military BAH payments. But I tripped over we could buy a used Yacht for $350k, then add monthly mooring and upkeep. He could make money off this deal. He wanted to stay in an apartment.
OP. You have way more options with your first investment than multi-investors. What is your personal housing, job and family situation?
Look at your House Hack. What are the units? Which are you living in? Do you need to flip your living from say the larger unit say 1,500 sqft to let's say you stayed in a 600 sqft ADU. Do the numbers work.
When you say your House Hack didn't cash flow. How did you calculate it? Did you include your personal housing cost? If you moved out of the House Hack how would that impact your cash flow calcs. Plus is there a lower housing cost you can move into?
Depending on your location, can you do MTR on the ADU or original house for say Traveling Nurses and get a higher rental rate?
Your also in an unusual location in the Bay area. My son just moved to San Diego with the Navy, so I looked to see if there was a housing deal, which I couldn't find a way even with his Military BAH payments. But I tripped over we could buy a used Yacht for $350k, then add monthly mooring and upkeep. He could make money off this deal. He wanted to stay in an apartment.
Still negative cash flow even considering housing costs as my interest rate is 7.5% on a $1M loan. I jumped into this without truly understanding what I was getting into and just relied on my agent who I thought knew how to underwrite. I won't be able to refinance because I'd have to bother a family member to go through and co-sign for me again and that was a headache.
I was actually living in the ADU once it finished building (670 sq ft).
On top of all that, being a landlord was quite the headache and I made a big mistake with tenant selection. I've had multiple tenants who ended up owing $10k each. I was too much of a nice guy and let it slide by believing every sob story that came up. Now I have to take it to small claims.
Anyway, we're in escrow and expect to close in the next week.
I've ultimately decided to just rent for the time being until I can save up enough to do a live-in flip in the bay area. Until then, I want to reinvest the funds into out-of-state property or something else. I mentioned in the post that I have $100k dedicated for this but I could probably do more if needed
OP gotcha. But this was a great learning experience. I'll see if I have another angle.
OP gotcha. But this was a great learning experience. I'll see if I have another angle.
Thank you for your insight!
OP. What part of the country do you like? What types of returns are you looking for? Cash Flow or Appreciation? Risk tolerance? etc etc as an investor.
For example:
A. I like Nasty situations, like fast Appreciation, like "Defined" risk, stay physically within 40-mile radius of our house- plenty of deals, have funding available. If I was Younger, had $100,000 and wanted fast appreciation, I would invest in New York City. I like it because you can find Nasty properties there. I don't necessarily mean physically nasty, but also situationally. Would look for the Best Location, Best property, with a Nasty Trespass situation. I would work with a Realtor and find 3 different properties and make 3 offers at the time subject to, Owner finance for 2 years, Then I would find 4 guys who are Bouncers. "Pay" them to live in the property with a lease agreement with you so they can legally stay there. Then tell them to change all of the locks, utilities, clear out everything in the property, turn off the fridge, stove, wash machine, dryer , air conditioning, etc. Force the trespasser out. Pay them $10,000 for one week. Close on the deal. Then do the next deal, using this property as collateral for the next. You have to buy "Cheap". If it is worth $700,000 offer $400,000. Keep making offers till you find an Owner who is fed up with the situation. Hey. You can do this in the BAY area. Think of your House Hack situation then amplify it on Steroids. It is super hard to get someone out of a house even if they are Trespassing in the Bay Area. I read through the code on another post there.
B. Forget Housing. Look at Commercial or Industrial properties. The key is your Downpayment percentage will determine your deal size. Housing you might get away with 5% say. Commercial is normally 25%, thus $100,000 would be a $400,000. Or SBA loan at 10% would be a $1mm loan. Use this to narrow down your thought process. The reason I brought up Commercial, is you will still have Housing Tenant problems Out of State.
C. If you stick with housing, look for Military Tenants. The government gives the Base Allowance for Housing BAH so they have the money. If they screw, you over. Call their Base Commander or officer and they will do your collections for you. So, Tenant Cash flow is covered and Collections are covered.
Depends on where you are in life and your investing career. Personally, I would use that money to find a BRRRR here locally in Louisville, KY. With $100K, I could find a somewhat distressed property in a B class neighborhood, maybe even A class if the renovations are minor and the deal is strong enough. BRRRR seems to the strategy to go with in today's market, and that is backed up by many of the comments in these forums from experienced investors. I would look for a roughly $300K house, using $60K towards down payment and the remaining $40K for renovations, including hiring GC to oversee project. I would make sure to do due diligence to make sure I don't go over budget. I would stay away from a property that needs anything major because $40K leaves little room for error. Updating paint, kitchen, bathrooms would be what I'm looking to do. If the house requires more than that, then I'm staying away from it.
This is an incredibly broad question, and I love it for creativity sake in the replies. I think it depends on your stage and values of life and your portfolio to answer this fully.
At this point in my journey, my focus is on real estate investments that offer a blend of strong equity, utility, and cash flow. I would look to deploy that capital as a down payment on a small single-family short-term rental or a condo in MRT or LTR rental strategy. Personally, I am looking closely at the lakes and mountains regions of New Hampshire because that is where I like to go for long weekends/get-aways and I'd make sure the geography worked for the strategy. The goal is for my next property to generate reliable income to offset its costs, while strategically blocking out calendar dates for personal use with friends and family (I want to be able to enjoy a nice lake house too... and have my guests pay for me to hold it throughout the years)!
Otherwise, looking outside of the investment, property/asset management, real estate space, another compelling path for all or a portion of this capital is targeting private equity. Maybe even finding something in a "starter-phase"; companies whose mission aligns with my personal values in an industry that you're curious about. If you're ready to study, learn and embrace a higher risk profile, there are private equity companies out there that might give a great return on investment too.
I know its a broad question but all answers are welcome
I know its a broad question but all answers are welcome
One thing that stood out to me is that you're asking the right question. Most investors focus on finding "the next hot market" when the better approach is usually identifying markets where rent growth, affordability, population trends, and rent-to-price ratios still support the investment strategy you're pursuing. I would spend less time trying to predict the next wave and more time comparing multiple markets at the ZIP-code level to see where the numbers still work today. What investment metric matters most to you right now: cash flow, appreciation, or a balance of both?
I'd put that $100k toward a duplex or small multifamily in a Midwest market like Columbus or Cleveland, where you can still find deals under $200k with strong rental demand and actual cash flow on day one. House hack it if you can; live in one unit, rent the other, and your tenants basically cover your mortgage while you build equity.
Coming at this from the CA investor/agent side.
Andre, you've actually done what a lot of CA investors talk about but never execute — getting off the sidelines and getting real-world reps as a landlord. The lessons from that house hack, even the painful ones with tenant collections, are worth more than any course.
With $100K out of state, the question Dan raised is the right one: what matters most to you? Cash flow, appreciation, or something in between? The Midwest markets work for cash flow but won't give you the appreciation trajectory you'd see in certain Sun Belt markets. Neither is wrong, it just depends on your goals.
A few things I'd add from the CA investor perspective: don't assume that because the Bay Area didn't work, real estate is broken. The Bay Area at 7.5% on a $1M loan is genuinely hard to make work. Other markets can work at today's rates if you underwrite conservatively from the start.
Also, build your team before you build your portfolio. One strong, honest agent and one solid PM in your target market are worth more than any spreadsheet. They'll tell you what neighborhoods to avoid and what actually rents well. Interview them before you make any offers.
Happy to chat through what we're seeing from the CA investor side if you want to reach out.
Roulette. 50K on even, 50K on red. You will either end up with 0 or 200K or break even back to $100K. With $200K you'll have enough for a down payment and maybe a few months of carrying costs.