Where are the Canadians of BP?

General Real Estate Investing
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Where are the Canadians of BP?

Mark Perry
Investor · Turks and Caicos · Member since 2014 · 22 posts · 7 votes

Hey Everyone,

It seems like BP is dominated by US investors, which is great, but I'm wondering where are all of my Canadian friends? The concepts of investing in real estate are the same, but mortgage and tax laws can be quite different between the two countries. It would be nice to connect with Canadians and see how they are succeeding in the Canadian marketplace. 

It would be a good opportunity to share information about preferred markets and discuss market fundamentals in those areas.

I'll start.

I have 2 rental condos in Ottawa, Ontario. I have lived there for 10 years and know the area quite well. Some pretty big things are happening in Ottawa right now. I'm also looking at the East Coast of Canada where I grew up. The cost of homes are much more reasonable there and can lead to good ROIs.

Your turn!

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Hai Loc
Specialist · Toronto, Ontario · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 891 votes
12y

I would say ROI in general in major Canadian cities like Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver are next to crap. Sorry for leaving out Edmonton and Calgary because they may have more cash flow then the above mentioned. Prices are too high here and the rents don't reflect.

I see value in smaller cities like Hamilton, Waterloo, Kitchener London in Ontario. Sorry I don't know much of the rest of Canada as I am from Toronto.

Gross rental multiplier in major US cities can be as high as 100% than Toronto and likely more.

You can buy a $350,000 1+1 condo in Toronto and get only $2000 a month rent and 0 cash flow with the maintenance fees eating up all the cash flow.

Take that $350,000 150 km south to Buffalo and you can buy 4-5 duplexes that yield at least $4000 a month and cash flow at least $800 a month even with management fee, vacancy rates, maintenance costs already incorporated. This is being very conservative.

I hope this opens up on how much $$$ there is to be made down south. Don't let those double tax crap fool you as long as you have a good accountant on your side. 

I can go on and on about the advantages 

I honestly don't look at a deal unless it is a minimum 20% cash on cash (not including equity)

I spent months on research so this is not something you learn overnight..

Good luck guys 

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  • Guillaume D.
    Real Estate Investor & Marketing Specialist · Montreal, QC · Member since 2013 · 182 posts · 367 votes
    11y

    Hey everyone. I am from Montreal, Canada and have been investing in the area for 3 years now, but I have been very active for the last 12 months. 

    People always say that properties are overpriced. It was true 20 years ago (when interest rates were very high), and is still true today.

    The key is to understand that there are plenty of good deals, and always will be, in every market. The hard part is to find them! Most of the bargains are off market, so focus your search for properties based on this. We have to be creative.

    I get 1 to 2 calls everyday from individuals wanting to sell their properties and they are not listed. 

    Just closed 3 deals in 8 months (bought one house 50k under market value and rented it with a lease option, assigned a contract agreement for an 8-unit building for $12 500, and sold a house flip + 3 pieces of land for 110k profits).

    Keep it up guys :)!

    1Reply
  • Doug Keefe
    Charlottetown, Prince Edward Island · Member since 2015 · 10 posts · 1 vote
    11y

    East coast here.  PEI specifically.   Very beginning stages.  Asking lots of dumb questions, but would rather make the mistake of looking dumb in a forum rather than a negotiation (or aftewards)!

    Hey @Mark Perry you mentioned you grew up on the East Coast.  The name sounds familiar, any chance it was PEI?

    1Reply
  • Dan Welch
    Pilot · Victoria , British Columbia · Member since 2014 · 6 posts · 2 votes
    11y

    Just starting out in Victoria. Like Doug Keefe, beginning stages. Trying to learn as much as I can. My only experience so far is two live-in flips where we made a decent profit on both however these were in Saskatchewan. Any Victoria Investors out there with advice on house flipping or rentals for cash flow? Everything I've read so far is that you would need A LOT of capital to put down in order to generate any kind of cash flow on rentals in Victoria. Still going to give it a try and I will also be looking into Nanaimo. 

    1Reply
  • Tyler Cruz
    Nanaimo, British Columbia · Member since 2014 · 46 posts · 2 votes
    11y

    I'm in Nanaimo. Just received my very first deposit from my property manager a few days ago.

    Yeah, the returns here are dismal, but you can make it work if you factor in appreciation over time. Nanaimo is only slightly better in terms of the numbers compared to Victoria (so I hear). 

    Complete sellers market here though...

    0Reply
  • Dan Welch
    Pilot · Victoria , British Columbia · Member since 2014 · 6 posts · 2 votes
    11y


    Hey @Tyler Cruz, good for you on your first deposit, what type of property are you renting out if you don't mind me asking? Might have some more questions for you about the different areas and numbers in the near future. Thanks!

    0Reply
  • Tom Stromar
    Investor · Nanaimo, British Columbia · Member since 2012 · 60 posts · 5 votes
    11y

    Hi Dan,

    Unlike Vancouver (gasp!) and now Victoria, it's definitely possible to get cash flowing properties here in Nanaimo (although the market's been on a tear the last 6 months so that might evaporate in a couple / few years if the current trend continues). 

    Although as Tyler mentioned, the cap rate is 5%, not great.

    For those that are willing to put in a bit of effort, recent zoning changes make it possible to get *really* good, one might say, downright un-Canadian, double-digit returns. 

    1Reply
  • Tyler Cruz
    Nanaimo, British Columbia · Member since 2014 · 46 posts · 2 votes
    11y

    Dan, it was a single-family home with a legal suite.

    Tom would actually be a bit better of a contact to ask regarding housing questinons since I'm a noob still, and he's a local realtor here. In fact, I actually "met" him on BiggerPockets and ended up using him as my realtor here.

    I think you have an advantage though as it appears from your profile that you've been involved with flips before. There are a lot of cheaper single-family homes here that are ripe for flipping ($150K-$200K range) or improving then renting out. I have a friend here who utilizes sweat equity and I think he has around 20 properties now.

    0Reply
  • William Wong
    Investor · Ottawa, Ontario · Member since 2015 · 63 posts · 4 votes
    11y

    @Mark Perry Hi Mark, I am based out of Ottawa myself. I am looking to get into real estate.

    Currently considering US opportunities but would like to get started in Canada just because it is in my own backyard. Perhaps we can start an Ottawa real estate investors meetup or something?

    0Reply
  • William Wong
    Investor · Ottawa, Ontario · Member since 2015 · 63 posts · 4 votes
    11y

    @Francis-Cedric Martel Hi Francis, You said you own rental properties in the US? I was actually quite interested in this topic myself. Just wondering what your experience was like and how tough was it to enter the American market?

    0Reply
  • William Wong
    Investor · Ottawa, Ontario · Member since 2015 · 63 posts · 4 votes
    11y

    Does anyone have any thoughts on real estate in Kingston, Ontario close to Queen's University?

    0Reply
  • Roy N.Pro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Fredericton, New Brunswick · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @William Wong:

    Does anyone have any thoughts on real estate in Kingston, Ontario close to Queen's University?

     Ah, Kingston ... we use to frequent a little restaurant/club owned by Zal Yanovsky (lead guitarist of Lovin' Spoonful) back in the '80s... called Chez Piggy, I believe.   If you can find something where the numbers worked within 4-blocks of Queen's, you will do alright.  Anything I've seem pop-up in the local universityville appears to be quite fully priced ... however, I'm remote, so not tapped in to find the off-market deals.

    0Reply
  • Francis-Cedric Martel
    Real Estate Investor · Montreal, Quebec · Member since 2012 · 3 posts · 0 votes
    11y
    William Wong my experience with the rentals I have in the US has been great. I have a decent positive cash flow every month and the properties have appreciated a good amount in value. At first, I tried managing from here but quickly I realized that wasn't a good idea so I hired a property management company. Now I can say my investment is mainly passive and I also get to enjoy the added value of the USD whenever I exchange to CAD (1.31 as of 8/30/15).
    0Reply
  • Cal Ewing
    Investor · Calgary, AB · Member since 2014 · 182 posts · 32 votes
    11y

    Hi gang, great to see all the Canucks connecting on here. I hope that soon this place will be full of Canadian investors. 

    Myself, I have not bought any investment properties in Canada. From the getgo I started investing in Vegas after the market crash, followed by Phoenix. This was all turn-key to begin with but it got my feet wet and now I am investing in Houston, Columbus and working on building teams in Austin and San Antonio. 

    My current strategy is buying at the tax deed auctions in Texas, however I am also working on expanding my acquisition strategy to include using wholesalers and maybe even direct mail. So far I have done 3 tax auction deals and it is a lot of fun.

    Calgarians, I'd love to grab a coffee and talk real estate any time.

    0Reply
  • Larry Smet
    Flipper / Rehabber / Real Estate Investor · Toronto, Ontario · Member since 2012 · 392 posts · 77 votes
    11y

    Hi Everyone - thanks for starting this @Mark Perry - btw, it's funny that you identify yourself from Barrie - where I grew up - but live in Ottawa  :)

    I live in the GTA so like @Hai Loc and many other Canadians I've been investing in the US for the last several years.  The prices in the GTA are ridiculously high....   I think we're all holding our breath and waiting for it to crash so we can invest here as well!

    Originally I was focusing on flips but lately have started to pick up rentals as well.  We just acquired a duplex for US$17,500 with a rehab of US$81,000.  Now everything is new and it should rent for US$1250-1350 per unit.  It's impossible to find that kind of deal in Ontario as far as I know.

    Any GTA investors somehow finding cash flowing deals here?

    0Reply
  • Hai Loc
    Specialist · Toronto, Ontario · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 891 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Larry Smet:

    Hi Everyone - thanks for starting this @Mark Perry - btw, it's funny that you identify yourself from Barrie - where I grew up - but live in Ottawa  :)

    I live in the GTA so like @Hai Loc and many other Canadians I've been investing in the US for the last several years.  The prices in the GTA are ridiculously high....   I think we're all holding our breath and waiting for it to crash so we can invest here as well!

    Originally I was focusing on flips but lately have started to pick up rentals as well.  We just acquired a duplex for US$17,500 with a rehab of US$81,000.  Now everything is new and it should rent for US$1250-1350 per unit.  It's impossible to find that kind of deal in Ontario as far as I know.

    Any GTA investors somehow finding cash flowing deals here?

     Not much cash flow in GTA..

    Try buying bungalows for land value in prime areas and finance a builder to build you a 3000 sqft house.. that's investing in Toronto..

    So many guys are doing this these days and making a killing it's not even funny. I did it once and will only do it again if I can grab a prime lot at market value. Prime lot now a days go for minimim 10% over marker value. It may be worth paying for it if the lot gets a good appraisal. My buddy paid 15% over appraised value and had to fork out that additional 15% in cash at closing.. At the end of the day he made money but his higher capital investment shrunk his return..

    0Reply
  • Russell BrazilBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Agent · Washington, D.C. · Member since 2012 · 17k+ posts · 30k+ votes
    11y
    Where are the Canadians of BP?

    My guess is they are in Canada someplace.

    [email protected]301-893-4635Podcast Guest on Show #192
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  • Hazel D.
    New to Real Estate · Columbus, OH · Member since 2015 · 5 posts · 4 votes
    11y

    Hi! New to BP and new to REI.
    Is there anyone familiar with the Toronto market, particularly the West side (Roncesvalles, High Park, Little Italy)?

    There are a few new condo developments in this area and while I've heard that these are not the best investments, this is what's currently in my budget. I also absolutely love this area. 

    Hoping to get more insight on any watch-outs for a new condo... Aside from other good questions I have yet to think about.

    Thanks!

    0Reply
  • Jonathan Heinz
    Real Estate Professional · Calgary, AB · Member since 2014 · 1 post · 0 votes
    11y

    Most Canadian  urban centres may not seem to offer some of the seemingly incredible rates of return and low barriers to entering the market that are frequently mentioned across the Bigger Pockets site. I am optimistic that it won't always remain this way, pockets of opportunity are going to emerge across Canada as well. A quick look at markets in Ohio, Florida and elsewhere really make me wonder where the Canadian equivalents are.

    I have lived in both Vancouver and Calgary and both markets are certainly due for some corrections. Certainly in Calgary the first signs are being seen, with slightly lower home prices and much lower volume of home sales recently-

     http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/calgary-hous...

    A single month's data is not nearly enough to draw any conclusions but I am very interested to see what the next 12 or 18 months bring with continued low oil prices, new governments at both the Federal and Provincial level and a rapidly changing city.

    0Reply
  • Jesse Cornforth
    Owner of a framing company/ Rookie Investor · Calgary, Alberta · Member since 2015 · 16 posts · 2 votes
    11y

    Hi  Jonathan, As a owner of a framing company who works in Calgary also living in Calgary it is defenitly getting ugly/really slow for us. I have a fairly deep connection with the trade world and most of them are very very slow aswell. It's been so busy here for a good 4-5 years always having houses to build with out waiting for the next to be realdy. Meaning no down time waiting for the basement to be dug and foundation poured. But I've had a six week wait back in August and might have some time off mid November till ealry December. The sales reps I've talked to say sales are way down. Normal months selling 30-40 now down to 4-7 ish. 

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  • Roy N.Pro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Fredericton, New Brunswick · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    11y

    @Jonathan Heinz

    There still opportunities to be found in the Maritimes: less so in the mid-sized and up apartment buildings, but in the residential space (1 - 4 units) and small (<16) apartment buildings.  We are new to the commercial and industrial segments, so cannot yet speak to market opportunities there.

    0Reply
  • Paul D.
    Investor · Ottawa, Ontario · Member since 2015 · 8 posts · 2 votes
    10y

    Hey girls and guys,

    First time post here and see interesting discussions. What are some good markets for buying in US besides Florida ?

    0Reply
  • Chad U.
    Investor · Boca Raton, FL · Member since 2012 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    10y

    Cleveland, Atlanta, Kansas City, Indianapolis, Chicago. Pretty much anywhere you can buy a sub-$100K property where rents are >1%.  

    0Reply
  • Samuel Sedore
    Real Estate Agent · Kitchener-Waterloo-Cambridge, Ontario · Member since 2013 · 408 posts · 90 votes
    10y

    kitchener and cambridge are great markets! We had 5.8% appreciatiom in cambridge and 6.6% in kitchener over the last 10 months. Its not uncommon to find cash flowing single family homes, but there is great opportunity for small multi family. I come across lots of properties that cash flow around 400 a month with a purchase price under 300k after expenses.

    0Reply
  • Pawan J.
    Developer · Vancouver, British Columbia · Member since 2014 · 122 posts · 26 votes
    10y

    @Hai Loc you are correct the money to be made in the Canadian (some call it inflated but I think it is worth every cent) housing market is through building new or renovation / rehab and sell. I invest in Vancouver BC lower mainland and have been for 6years and doing just this and each property sees a nice profit. Yes its a higher buy-in cost but that come with high returns so less deals / year needed.

    Due to the high buy-in it only makes sense that we started finding silent investors / partners to join us and split profits. So many people are now sitting on large HELOC finds and doing nothing with it that buying & building or buying and flipping with a rehab makes sense. We recently flipped a couple properties all for a nice profit in Vancouver. It is possible!!

    0Reply
  • Lorin K.
    Tacoma, WA · Member since 2015 · 141 posts · 29 votes
    10y

    Powan remarkable transformations. I suspect you hired a designer? Great work.

    0Reply
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