Purchase of owner occupied duplex advice

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Purchase of owner occupied duplex advice

Jordyn Matusevich
Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2015 · 8 posts · 0 votes

hi all,

I'm new here and seeking some advice. My husband and I, both 33 without kids yet, have lived in a rental unit of a house with one other rental unit for the last 4 years. The owner has just put the house up for sale and we are considering purchasing the house to live in the other, larger unit upstairs and rent out the unit we currently live in, managing it ourselves. The house is for sale for $320,000. We've paid $1230 for rent since we moved in so we think that it could rent for higher especially with some upgrades and repairs. The other unit rents for $1300 but has a lot more space (extra half bath and extra bedroom). I think the owner could've gotten more.  

We haven't met with our realtor or mortgage broker about it yet but if we put $25k down and got a conventional loan of $295k our payment would be roughly 1800/month (using a mortgage calculator). This would be over 5% down which is what we've been told we would need. 

Thinking with the 50% rule (I learned about here today) and we rented the unit for 1300, we would basically be able to pay our new mortgage with the added income for about what we currently pay for rent now, while upgrading to the bigger unit. $1300/2=$650. Payment of $1800-650=$1150, which is $80 less than what we pay for rent now. 

Does this sound correct? What am I missing? Taxes are about $4500/year but I assume we'd be able to depreciate half and that isn't reflected in the mortgage calculator so maybe we'd be making more. 

We are in a popular area of Philadelphia that inhabits mostly young professionals and college students so there are a ton of renters. Eventually we would plan to move and rent out both units. 

I appreciate any advice or help as to what else I need in my calculations and if this sounds like a good plan. 

Thank you in advance!

Jordyn

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Patrick Donovan
Investor · Dubuque, IA · Member since 2015 · 88 posts · 19 votes
11y

Does the mortgage payment include tax and insurance along with the loan payment? Also with only 5 % down you would be looking at a PMI payment as well which I don't know how much the numbers differ in PA from IA. The paying 80 a month less might sound good but when you look at it from an investment standpoint, to me anyway, it doesn't look good. Eventually when you go to rent it out and say you're able to get 2600 a month in rent (1300 each side) it might sound good until you add in vacancy factor, saving money for maintenance, capital expenses and management fees since you should pay yourself for your time, this looks to me like there would be negative cashflow.

Someone please correct me if I am wrong but with the numbers that are here this is what I came up with.

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  • Patrick Donovan
    Investor · Dubuque, IA · Member since 2015 · 88 posts · 19 votes
    11y

    Does the mortgage payment include tax and insurance along with the loan payment? Also with only 5 % down you would be looking at a PMI payment as well which I don't know how much the numbers differ in PA from IA. The paying 80 a month less might sound good but when you look at it from an investment standpoint, to me anyway, it doesn't look good. Eventually when you go to rent it out and say you're able to get 2600 a month in rent (1300 each side) it might sound good until you add in vacancy factor, saving money for maintenance, capital expenses and management fees since you should pay yourself for your time, this looks to me like there would be negative cashflow.

    Someone please correct me if I am wrong but with the numbers that are here this is what I came up with.

    1Reply
  • Ryan Fagan
    Real Estate Broker · Westampton, NJ · Member since 2014 · 57 posts · 31 votes
    11y

    @Jordyn MatusevichWelcome to BP!

    When you are "house hacking" aka buying a multi-family and renting the other units the way you look at an investment is different. You obviously like the property and the location so there is value there. If you can buy a property in a good location for less than what you currently rent, that is great because you are building equity rather than just paying rent. Your numbers look good, if you qualify for FHA you would only have to put 3.5% down plus closing costs.

    When I analysis your deal and include vacancy insurance and repairs I have this house costing you about $981/month, still less than what you pay.  If you like the property and the location, and it is in a "hot" part of the city then this is a decent deal.  You reduce your housing expense and you start building equity in a good asset that may appreciate over time.


    My analysis as an investment (both sides rented):
    Gross Rent 1300x2 = $31,200

    Less Vacancy (10%) = $3,120

    -------------------------------------

    Gross Operating Income = $28,080

    -------------------------------------

    Less Property Tax = $4,500

    Less Insurance = $2,500??

    Less Repairs (15% of rent) = $4,680

    -------------------------------------

    Net Operating Income = $16,400

    -------------------------------------

    Less Annual Debt Service @ 3.5% down, 30 years @ 4% interest = $17,691

    -------------------------------------

    Cash Flow Before Taxes = -$1,291

    Return on Investment -11.5%

    Overall, owner-occupied investments are difficult to give advise because it really depends on what your preferences are about the property since you will be living there.  From the pure investment side, you would have negative cash-flow which I personally like to stay away from but there are areas of the city that it would be worth it to take the negative cash flow to get appreciation long term.

    1Reply
  • Troy Sheets
    Developer · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 902 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Ryan Fagan:

    @Jordyn MatusevichWelcome to BP!

    When you are "house hacking" aka buying a multi-family and renting the other units the way you look at an investment is different. You obviously like the property and the location so there is value there. If you can buy a property in a good location for less than what you currently rent, that is great because you are building equity rather than just paying rent. Your numbers look good, if you qualify for FHA you would only have to put 3.5% down plus closing costs.

    Exactly my thoughts. House hacking isn't a typical investment where "2% rules" apply IMHO. You need a place to live and this is no different than buying a house somewhere you want to live anyway, except you've got someone paying half or more of your mortgage. 

    While I do understand that living with your tenants isn't for everyone, I personally can't fathom why everyone doesn't get started investing by house hacking. If you can swing the 5% down and not go FHA you're better off, the PMI with FHA is for life now.

    Let me know if you need a good mortgage guy, I can recommend one that I've used twice now. Talk to your landlords about buying the place, maybe they're willing to finance all or part of it for you and you won't need a mortgage broker!

     Good luck!

    1Reply
  • Chad Hovermale
    Real Estate Professional · Grand Rapids, MI · Member since 2013 · 32 posts · 30 votes
    11y

    note that the previous cash flow analysis assumes gross rents with both units rented out and doesn't include management expense.  It is not an investment.   It may make a nice home for your family, but it doesn't appear to be a good buy and hold property.  You may end up stuck with this for a long time with negative cash flow.   Consider it carefully.

    1Reply
  • Jerry PadillaBusiness Member
    Lender · Rochester, NY · Member since 2014 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    11y

    @Jordyn Matusevich You can actually go with as little as little as 3.5% down with FHA.

    As far as conventional for a duplex I don't think Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac go as low as 5% down for a duplex. A SFR can be as low as 3% with conventional financing. A duplex is 15% down in my experience with conventional. A triplex and a fourplex is 20% form with conventional.

    [email protected]585-204-6923
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  • Max T.
    Investor · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
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    I did something similar in fishtown back in 2010 but the numbers were more in my favor. I would go for it only if you can get that price down to 300k and the rents up to 3000/month. If you can't achieve the 1% rule when renting out both units it isn't a good deal in philly.
    0Reply
  • Jordyn Matusevich
    OP
    Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2015 · 8 posts · 0 votes
    11y

    Thank you everyone for their advice! I do not want to do an FHA loan because the PMI never goes away. Is it true that if you purchase a duplex you must put 15% down?

    It seems like most of you do not think this is the best idea. Before this opportunity came about we were planning on buying a house and moving out of this rental anyway and our ceiling was 300k but thought we could stretch it a bit for a good deal/to stay where we are with the upgrade of moving to the other, bigger nicer unit/and have the supplemental income for not so much work. Wishful thinking?

    There is a possibility we could get the house for less - it just went on the market. Perhaps if it doesn't sell for a bit we'd have some wiggle room. 

    I used a different mortgage calculator that includes tax, PMI, etc and got the following numbers - a higher monthly payment.

    Thanks all!

    Loan Information

    Price of property:$319,000
    Down payment (5%):$15,950
    Loan amount:$303,050
    Interest rate:4.500%
    Loan term:30 Years
    Payoff date:Feb, 2045
    You have 360 payments that total to:$724,468

    Monthly Payment Information

    Principal and interest payment:$1,535.51
    Property Taxes:$265.83
    Hazard insurance:$79.75
    Private Mortgage Insurance:$131.32
    Total monthly payments:$2,012.41
    0Reply
  • Troy Sheets
    Developer · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 902 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Jordyn Matusevich:

    Thank you everyone for their advice! I do not want to do an FHA loan because the PMI never goes away. Is it true that if you purchase a duplex you must put 15% down?

    It seems like most of you do not think this is the best idea. Before this opportunity came about we were planning on buying a house and moving out of this rental anyway and our ceiling was 300k but thought we could stretch it a bit for a good deal/to stay where we are with the upgrade of moving to the other, bigger nicer unit/and have the supplemental income for not so much work. Wishful thinking?

    There is a possibility we could get the house for less - it just went on the market. Perhaps if it doesn't sell for a bit we'd have some wiggle room. 

    I used a different mortgage calculator that includes tax, PMI, etc and got the following numbers - a higher monthly payment.

    Thanks all!

    Loan Information

    Price of property:$319,000
    Down payment (5%):$15,950
    Loan amount:$303,050
    Interest rate:4.500%
    Loan term:30 Years
    Payoff date:Feb, 2045
    You have 360 payments that total to:$724,468

    Monthly Payment Information

    Principal and interest payment:$1,535.51
    Property Taxes:$265.83
    Hazard insurance:$79.75
    Private Mortgage Insurance:$131.32
    Total monthly payments:$2,012.41

    PM me for my mortgage guy, I went with FHA at 3.5% down only because I had to, we did have the option of going 5% down on our 4-unit because we needed to conserve the cash. It's definitely available.

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  • Troy Sheets
    Developer · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 902 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Chad Hovermale:

    note that the previous cash flow analysis assumes gross rents with both units rented out and doesn't include management expense.  It is not an investment.   It may make a nice home for your family, but it doesn't appear to be a good buy and hold property.  You may end up stuck with this for a long time with negative cash flow.   Consider it carefully.

    So buying a SFH makes more sense financially? Talk about negative cash flow! Unless you're buying a fixer-upper to live in, a SFH house at FMV makes the least sense. Just my thoughts but I'd rather live in and own a MFH that is half (or more) being paid for by tenants and allowing me huge tax breaks than a SFH. It comes down to where they want to live also. If they want to live in a really nice part of the city, those buildings generally don't cash flow. Of course there are exceptions but that's not the norm.

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  • Jesse T.
    Herndon, VA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 324 votes
    11y

    I would run the numbers as a full rental and use that to make an offer.  There should be some cash flow in excess of repairs and capital expenses.

    Is your primary goal to have investment properties or to own your primary residence?  

    If investment properties is your goal and your offer isn't accepted by the owner, you might consider offering to sign a 2 to 3 year lease.  With your housing costs locked in you can saving up a down payment for a purely investment property.

    If this property is very attractive to you as a long-term personal residence, then maybe you can be a little more flexible on the price.  Then it becomes a question of how it works with your finances.  One thing people often overstate is the tax benefits of a primary residence.  A good tax preparer should be able to get you an accurate number of the tax savings vs. renting.

    0Reply
  • Christian Hutchinson
    Investor · Detroit, MI · Member since 2014 · 360 posts · 354 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Jordyn Matusevich:

    Thank you everyone for their advice! I do not want to do an FHA loan because the PMI never goes away. Is it true that if you purchase a duplex you must put 15% down?

    It seems like most of you do not think this is the best idea. Before this opportunity came about we were planning on buying a house and moving out of this rental anyway and our ceiling was 300k but thought we could stretch it a bit for a good deal/to stay where we are with the upgrade of moving to the other, bigger nicer unit/and have the supplemental income for not so much work. Wishful thinking?

    There is a possibility we could get the house for less - it just went on the market. Perhaps if it doesn't sell for a bit we'd have some wiggle room. 

    I used a different mortgage calculator that includes tax, PMI, etc and got the following numbers - a higher monthly payment.

    Thanks all!

    Loan Information

    Price of property:$319,000
    Down payment (5%):$15,950
    Loan amount:$303,050
    Interest rate:4.500%
    Loan term:30 Years
    Payoff date:Feb, 2045
    You have 360 payments that total to:$724,468

    Monthly Payment Information

    Principal and interest payment:$1,535.51
    Property Taxes:$265.83
    Hazard insurance:$79.75
    Private Mortgage Insurance:$131.32
    Total monthly payments:$2,012.41

     I would do this deal.

    Your Initial investment is $16,000.

    Your yearly payment is $24,149

    One unit gives you $15,600

    Once your PMI Falls off, you get a new home, and add the second unit. The PMI will probably be equal to the increase in Property Taxes because its no longer the primary residence. Which gives you $31200 a year in revenue, and about $7000/yr in income before repairs.

    I measure my deals in Cash Out Flows. Remember you can get 7% return by putting $10,000 in an Index Fund, and just keep breathing. You are considering this transaction because you want a higher ROI. Well you will have a healthy return on your initial cash investment, plus all you need is 19 Rent payments per year to break even.

    We would do a deal like this, as long as there was no: structural issues, major repairs coming due, or evidence the area was in was headed towards a downturn(major employer leaving, falling rents/property values).

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  • Jordyn Matusevich
    OP
    Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2015 · 8 posts · 0 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Troy Sheets:

    Let me know if you need a good mortgage guy, I can recommend one that I've used twice now. Talk to your landlords about buying the place, maybe they're willing to finance all or part of it for you and you won't need a mortgage broker!

    Thanks Troy - what do you mean about financing it through my landlords - how does that work?

    0Reply
  • Jordyn Matusevich
    OP
    Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2015 · 8 posts · 0 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Jesse T.:

    I would run the numbers as a full rental and use that to make an offer.  There should be some cash flow in excess of repairs and capital expenses.

    Is your primary goal to have investment properties or to own your primary residence?  

    If investment properties is your goal and your offer isn't accepted by the owner, you might consider offering to sign a 2 to 3 year lease.  With your housing costs locked in you can saving up a down payment for a purely investment property.

    If this property is very attractive to you as a long-term personal residence, then maybe you can be a little more flexible on the price.  Then it becomes a question of how it works with your finances.  One thing people often overstate is the tax benefits of a primary residence.  A good tax preparer should be able to get you an accurate number of the tax savings vs. renting.

    Jesse - My primary goal originally was just to purchase a SFH for $250k-$300k like most people we know and just live in that and start a family. Trying to keep our mortgage not too much higher than our rent now but that is unlikely. We'd most likely have and increase of at least a few hundred dollars. However, I've always watched shows like "Income Property" and wished we could do that too. Getting others to pay part of my mortgage is very intriguing. The goal would be to live in this house (other unit) if we purchase it, for the next 3-5 years. If we didn't purchase it we'd just leave eventually when we found the right house or possibly seek out some other investment MF property to live in and rent out.

    I haven't talked to the landlords yet but there are 5 showings scheduled for tomorrow. I do know that there is some water damage in the house as it has showed up in our walls. There is a small backward that unit 1 (our current residence) has and if we bought that I'd want to convert it into a parking spot. Parking is very scarce and if we have a kid I do not want to be searching for spots far away. So that is another issue and something that would need some cash. 

     I'm getting mixed messages on the numbers so i'm a bit confused as to if it is a good idea or not. 

    Who would be the first person to contact? My realtor, their realtor, the landlords or my mortgage broker?

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  • Troy Sheets
    Developer · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 902 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Jordyn Matusevich:
    Originally posted by @Troy Sheets:

    Let me know if you need a good mortgage guy, I can recommend one that I've used twice now. Talk to your landlords about buying the place, maybe they're willing to finance all or part of it for you and you won't need a mortgage broker!

    Thanks Troy - what do you mean about financing it through my landlords - how does that work?

     It's not likely but doesn't hurt to ask. Search owner financing here on BP. They'd have to not need the proceeds from the sale and ideally would be looking to retire with residual income still coming in from the property over time. 

    0Reply
  • Troy Sheets
    Developer · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 902 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Jordyn Matusevich:
    Originally posted by @Jesse T.:

    I would run the numbers as a full rental and use that to make an offer.  There should be some cash flow in excess of repairs and capital expenses.

    Is your primary goal to have investment properties or to own your primary residence?  

    If investment properties is your goal and your offer isn't accepted by the owner, you might consider offering to sign a 2 to 3 year lease.  With your housing costs locked in you can saving up a down payment for a purely investment property.

    If this property is very attractive to you as a long-term personal residence, then maybe you can be a little more flexible on the price.  Then it becomes a question of how it works with your finances.  One thing people often overstate is the tax benefits of a primary residence.  A good tax preparer should be able to get you an accurate number of the tax savings vs. renting.

    Jesse - My primary goal originally was just to purchase a SFH for $250k-$300k like most people we know and just live in that and start a family. Trying to keep our mortgage not too much higher than our rent now but that is unlikely. We'd most likely have and increase of at least a few hundred dollars. However, I've always watched shows like "Income Property" and wished we could do that too. Getting others to pay part of my mortgage is very intriguing. The goal would be to live in this house (other unit) if we purchase it, for the next 3-5 years. If we didn't purchase it we'd just leave eventually when we found the right house or possibly seek out some other investment MF property to live in and rent out.

    I haven't talked to the landlords yet but there are 5 showings scheduled for tomorrow. I do know that there is some water damage in the house as it has showed up in our walls. There is a small backward that unit 1 (our current residence) has and if we bought that I'd want to convert it into a parking spot. Parking is very scarce and if we have a kid I do not want to be searching for spots far away. So that is another issue and something that would need some cash. 

     I'm getting mixed messages on the numbers so i'm a bit confused as to if it is a good idea or not. 

    Who would be the first person to contact? My realtor, their realtor, the landlords or my mortgage broker?

     I'd say this isn't the type of thing you want to rush into, so don't let the fact that they have 5 showings make you rush. Do you have a trusted realtor that can give you an unbiased opinion on the place and it's fair market value as it sits? If so, definitely contact them today. I would certainly contact a mortgage broker ASAP since, even if you don't buy this place, you need to know how much you're qualified for. I would also contact your landlords and ask if they're interested in owner financing. It can't hurt. 

    If the numbers work for you, go for it, just don't overpay and make sure you factor in the work needed. 

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  • Jordyn Matusevich
    OP
    Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2015 · 8 posts · 0 votes
    11y

    Thank you Troy!!!

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  • Jesse T.
    Herndon, VA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 324 votes
    11y

    I think you are on the right track applying 1/2 the rent towards the mortgage and comparing it to other SFHs.  You want to run the expenses a little more precisely to include 

    It mainly should come down to do you prefer it to the alternatives on the market.

    Would you be looking to move up from another "starter" house in the 3 to 5 year range?  This property does have an easier exit strategy of "rent out and buy".  However selling to move up may take longer.

    Are you pre-qualified for a mortgage?  That is generally the first step for any property and will make your offer to the landlord a lot stronger.

    0Reply
  • Nancy L.
    Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2014 · 178 posts · 64 votes
    11y

    @Jordyn Matusevich , The idea of purchasing a duplex and living in one half is great! That's something I've done personally... This may or may not be the right duplex, and if not, you might be able to find another one with better numbers. 

    The numbers that @Ryan Fagan went through look about right to me. Correct me if I'm misinterpreting Ryan, but it basically looks like after paying all the taxes, insurance, repairs, etc. and considering that there will be times when you may be between tenants, you will be paying about $1000 or so per year MORE than you are right now as renters. 

    But don't take anyone's word for it, make sure you and your husband understand the numbers! I have a background in teaching math, and am happy to explain more if that helps.

    Another thing to consider in addition to whether it's a good deal for you personally, is whether you'd be able to resell for at least as much as you put in. The next person to purchase it might not want to live there, so I think it's important to analyze the value purely from the investment standpoint to make sure you'll be able to resell.

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  • Jordyn Matusevich
    OP
    Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2015 · 8 posts · 0 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Nancy L.:

    @Jordyn Matusevich , The idea of purchasing a duplex and living in one half is great! That's something I've done personally... This may or may not be the right duplex, and if not, you might be able to find another one with better numbers. 

    The numbers that @Ryan Fagan went through look about right to me. Correct me if I'm misinterpreting Ryan, but it basically looks like after paying all the taxes, insurance, repairs, etc. and considering that there will be times when you may be between tenants, you will be paying about $1000 or so per year MORE than you are right now as renters. 

    But don't take anyone's word for it, make sure you and your husband understand the numbers! I have a background in teaching math, and am happy to explain more if that helps.

    Another thing to consider in addition to whether it's a good deal for you personally, is whether you'd be able to resell for at least as much as you put in. The next person to purchase it might not want to live there, so I think it's important to analyze the value purely from the investment standpoint to make sure you'll be able to resell.

    Thank you Nancy! I may take you up on that! We are still considering it but with less urgency as a few personal things are going on right now. It is definitely not fun to have all these people in our house for showings every day... thinking I should get some $ off my rent for being flexible with these agents. Anyone think that is realistic? I'm assuming not. The landlord has agreed (via text) to let us be month to month on our lease once it is up in May. 

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  • Nancy L.
    Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2014 · 178 posts · 64 votes
    11y

    @Jordyn Matusevich The number of showings may decrease as the place is on the market for longer. Your lease should stipulate some guidelines for what happens when your place gets shown. Mine say the tenant is entitled to 24 hrs notice. If I were your landlord, I would be open to offering a small discount provided that in exchange my tenant made sure the place was super clean and organized prior to showings. Tenants have to make it available for showings in accordance with whatever the lease says, but don't have to be especially cooperative about it, so that's why I personally would be open to offering the small discount. I try to create positive incentives for tenant cooperation.

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  • Jordyn Matusevich
    OP
    Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2015 · 8 posts · 0 votes
    11y

    @Nancy L. Well we haven't been super motivated to be extra tidy considering how our landlord has treated us as of late. We were never told the house was for sale.

    A few weeks ago the water dept came to our door threatening to turn the water off (owner pays). Apparently the tenants of the upstairs unit left their toilet running for a long time, causing the bill to skyrocket and the owner also just hadn't paid the bill. Anyway this was apparently the straw that broke the camel's back and he decided he didn't want to be a landlord anymore so he calls me and says dont worry we paid the bill, and by the way can an appraiser come into the apartment tomorrow?

    I said yes and of course got worried as we have lived there for 4 years and have started house hunting but haven't found the one yet. What if we don't find a place and a new owner wants to occupy our place - is what crossed my mind. He said don't worry this is just to find out what it appraises for, I have a # in my head and if it doesn't meet that then I wont list it. I asked him to please please let me know what he decides. The appraiser comes the following day.

    8 days go by and we come with no notice from our landlord and we come home to a for sale sign in our window. Then two days later the listing comes out with pictures of our place and all of our stuff. Still nothing. The following day I am inundated by calls and texts from their agent saying they want to show the house in an hour. At first was shocked and didn't respond right away and they said if I didn't answer they would just assume it was ok to come in. My landlord texted some apologies and said that he thought I knew he was listing it since he asked to come in with an appraiser. NO - you told me you were looking for a number and you'd let me know. We've been very good tenants - only calling when an appliance breaks and have paid on time or before rent is due every month. He could've had the decency to call me before - or even on the day he was just texting me. 

    So, needless to say I am not thrilled with them. Needed to vent! :) 

    0Reply
  • Nancy L.
    Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2014 · 178 posts · 64 votes
    11y

    @Jordyn Matusevich Sorry to hear that! I hate when landlords don't do what they need to do, makes us all look bad!

    I love good tenants who pay early. Rent from me instead! :)

    0Reply
  • Nancy L.
    Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2014 · 178 posts · 64 votes
    11y

    Most likely they cannot show the place with only an hour's notice. Check your lease if that's still a problem! The PA standard residential lease stipulates 24 hrs notice as the default.

    0Reply
  • Jordyn Matusevich
    OP
    Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2015 · 8 posts · 0 votes
    11y

    Oh yeah no one came that day as I was pretty livid. The owner left it up to his agent to let the tenants know the place was for sale and the agent thought she had left me a voicemail a few days prior. On second look she had the wrong phone number. So, she thought I was aware, but still wanted to get in an hour's notice. Now they are going through a text service to set up the showings. Easier, and I can confirm or deny them. I have notes all over the place as well.

    Was it illegal for the landlord to come in without any notice at all to take pictures or do they just have to knock and if I'm not home they can come in? I guess that would be in the lease too. I briefly looked at it this morning but I dont think it said 24 hours. Just wondering... felt a bit violated especially when the pics went up and we weren't even asked so we could make our bed.

    0Reply
  • Daniel Mohnkern
    Investor · Titusville, PA · Member since 2015 · 298 posts · 150 votes
    11y

    As a landlord, I would assume that taking pictures of my tenants belongings without their approval would be a BIG no-no.  If I were you, I would demand they take the pictures down immediately.  If they want pictures, they need to give you ample time to hide anything you don't want seen. 

    Could you imagine if one of those pictures had a credit card sitting on your table in the background.  Some software can easily fix pixels when zooming in.  They are very out of line there, in my opinion.

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