Fraud with our Birmingham turnkey property

Fraud with our Birmingham turnkey property

Investor · Houston, TX · Member since 2014 · 128 posts · 87 votes

In March 2015, we worked through Maverick Investor Group to purchase a property in Birmingham, Alabama. The Seller was Birmingham Income Properties - owned by Brad Lewis and Bryan Conwill. Property Management would be done by their other company, Arbor Trace Real Estate.

There were many difficulties during the rehab and purchase process. Most importantly, about two months after closing on the purchase, we discovered there was not a tenant in the property.

According to our contract, the house would be fully rehabbed with new plumbing, electrical and appliances and have a tenant in place before closing. We were also promised a paying tenant in the house at closing; a specific rental amount; a specific cap rate; and told that if the rental rate was not met, the sales price for the house would be lowered to maintain the cap rate. All of these stipulations were promised jointly by Mr. Lewis and Maverick during a webinar in March.

Problems started during the rehab process. Timelines kept getting missed. The Seller claimed work was done that wasn’t and frequently lied about issues. Fortunately we hired an independent inspector who helped us hold them accountable for doing the promised work. The inspector pointed out an old water heater that the Seller claimed was new, among many other issues. We often discussed these issues with Maverick; their response was to praise our due diligence and repeat the promises we had been given.

The Seller told us a tenant was lined up, but at a lower rental rate than promised. We mentioned up the rent guarantee. The Seller refused to lower the sales price, and eventually told us the tenant had agreed to the original rent amount. Shortly before closing the Seller sent us a copy of a signed lease. We closed on the purchase in July, and hired Arbor Trace for property management.

Almost two months passed and we did not receive any rent or owner’s statements. We contacted Arbor Trace to ask about the situation; we discovered the companies were collapsing in dramatic fashion. One staff member told us the house we had bought was not occupied. We called the electric company and verified that there was no power at the house. The lease we had been shown in order to get us to close at the agreed price was a fraudulent lease!

At that point, we reached out to another PM group in Birmingham. They helped us secure the house (which was empty) and get the lawn cut (there was a city citation on the door about the overgrown lawn).

We are not convinced that this drama is over yet. But so far, we have:

  • Bought a house that will cash flow for $200 less a month than promised
  • Dealt with a fraudulent lease
  • Had to find a new PM company
  • Had to spend at least $1000 to get the house rent ready
  • Paid a $500 bill to the electrical company to cover an unpaid bill
  • Been sent one check by the Seller to cover some costs – the check bounced (twice)
  • Received no substantive support from Maverick – they completely failed on their due diligence

Knowing how BP folks feel about turnkey properties in general, I want to say that we are not against the approach – we are in the process of closing two other turnkey properties with two different companies.

Our warning – stay away from the groups and people mentioned here and always do your due diligence!

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Investor · El Dorado Hills, CA · Member since 2012 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
10y
Thanks for sharing. My biggest issue with TK is that it never made sense to me. Your goals are not aligned. I always figured that if a TK provider could deliver what they claimed to offer consistently and over a long period of time... they would either keep them or have huge corporate buyers gobbling up as many properties as they could deliver. The fact that they constantly have to hunt for small time buyers is one of many red flags for me. I don't understand why somebody would do all of the legwork to secure properties below market, fund and manage a rehab, lease up and then hand over a great cash flowing property to a stranger while retaining the management headache. That is all the heaving lifting. It is like running the first 26 miles of a marathon then handing the bib off to somebody else that gets to sprint across the finish line to kiss your wife and hug your kids. None of it makes sense unless their one time rip and ongoing management fees are a better deal than the true monthly cash flow. When I go into any type of business arrangement or partnership I try to make sure our business interests and goals are 100% aligned. With TK investing, it simply can't be. More repairs and management fees from turnover equals more money for the TK provider and less money for the investor. Every extra penny they spend over engineering a rehab to avoid future maintenance issues is coming off their bottom line. Then they have no skin in the game if the property underperforms. It's like a perfect recipe to get screwed over. If you want relatively hassle free out of state investing, a commercial syndication deal makes much more sense to me.
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  • Investor · Singapore · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Greg H.:

     In what turnkey model dies the TK provider take responsibility for vacancy? Maybe you mean that once the sale is done, the risk is with the buyer. That is true but it is true no matter how you buy the property, turnkey or not. So the key challenge is management of the property after purchase. I have always said that that is THE most critical part  that determines success or failure of the business. Not whether you paid $5K more or less for a $50K property. So the lesson is: you have to be sure of the PM more than anything else.

  • Greg H.Pro Member
    Moderator
    Broker/Flipper · Austin, TX · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:

     In what turnkey model dies the TK provider take responsibility for vacancy? Maybe you mean that once the sale is done, the risk is with the buyer. That is true but it is true no matter how you buy the property, turnkey or not. So the key challenge is management of the property after purchase. I have always said that that is THE most critical part  that determines success or failure of the business. Not whether you paid $5K more or less for a $50K property. So the lesson is: you have to be sure of the PM more than anything else.

     Per the OP, she was guaranteed a rental rate and a cap rate with the TK provider making up the difference ( I assume only for a set period of time ) Therefore, the TK is considered about vacancies and PM issues as they lower their profit

  • Investor · Frisco, TX · Member since 2015 · 84 posts · 52 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:
    Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:

    @Spencer Sutton  c

    I watched American greed last night.. and I am listening to this lady who put 1 million into a fund that promised to double here money guaranteed in 3 years.. all she could talk about was the greedy guys that lost all the money.. ( granted that's the case in all the American greed shows) But its also the greedy investor who really should have known better.. if they had not been so greedy they probably would not have lost their million buck aroos... LOL

    I don't know this show, but I get idea.  To me, there's something way less painful about losing $1M in 3 years on a bad investment risk......than a slow death on a $75K out of state rental.  Presumably, the $1M isn't usually every last penny.  The poorly performing $75K rental comes with stress and denial. I see a lot of people hanging on to a non appreciating, non cash flowing asset.  10 years seems to be the number when they are finally ready to bail and sell at a loss. I'd say its about 50/50 as to blame.  Half of them make it about crappy tenants and bad PM and contractors.  The other half have quiet shame and totally blame themselves.  Neither is pretty,

     After all the drama with TK in Birmingham, I have shifted my focus to buying apartments as part of an investment group.  It is much more passive and has double digit cash-on-cash returns.  

  • Investor · Central Valley, CA · Member since 2012 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Greg H.:
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:
    Originally posted by @Greg H.:

     In what turnkey model dies the TK provider take responsibility for vacancy? Maybe you mean that once the sale is done, the risk is with the buyer. That is true but it is true no matter how you buy the property, turnkey or not. So the key challenge is management of the property after purchase. I have always said that that is THE most critical part  that determines success or failure of the business. Not whether you paid $5K more or less for a $50K property. So the lesson is: you have to be sure of the PM more than anything else.

     Per the OP, she was guaranteed a rental rate and a cap rate with the TK provider making up the difference ( I assume only for a set period of time ) Therefore, the TK is considered about vacancies and PM issues as they lower their profit

     Per the OP:

    "According to our contract, the house would be fully rehabbed with new plumbing, electrical and appliances and have a tenant in place before closing. We were also promised a paying tenant in the house at closing; a specific rental amount; a specific cap rate; and told that if the rental rate was not met, the sales price for the house would be lowered to maintain the cap rate. All of these stipulations were promised jointly by Mr. Lewis and Maverick during a webinar in March."

    Being promised something in a webinar is not really a promise IMO.  Typically those kinds of promised are referred to as marketing.  Do we know if all of these stipulations were in writing for this particular property?  When the OP found out that the rent was not what was as originally projected, the provider refused to make good on this "promise".  But, miraculously, they were able to get the fake tenants to go back and agree to a higher rent.  :)

  • Investor · Central Valley, CA · Member since 2012 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Doug Johnson:
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:
    Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:

    @Spencer Sutton  c

    I watched American greed last night.. and I am listening to this lady who put 1 million into a fund that promised to double here money guaranteed in 3 years.. all she could talk about was the greedy guys that lost all the money.. ( granted that's the case in all the American greed shows) But its also the greedy investor who really should have known better.. if they had not been so greedy they probably would not have lost their million buck aroos... LOL

    I don't know this show, but I get idea.  To me, there's something way less painful about losing $1M in 3 years on a bad investment risk......than a slow death on a $75K out of state rental.  Presumably, the $1M isn't usually every last penny.  The poorly performing $75K rental comes with stress and denial. I see a lot of people hanging on to a non appreciating, non cash flowing asset.  10 years seems to be the number when they are finally ready to bail and sell at a loss. I'd say its about 50/50 as to blame.  Half of them make it about crappy tenants and bad PM and contractors.  The other half have quiet shame and totally blame themselves.  Neither is pretty,

     After all the drama with TK in Birmingham, I have shifted my focus to buying apartments as part of an investment group.  It is much more passive and has double digit cash-on-cash returns.  

    Not to get OT here, but how long have you been in this investment group and received the double digit COC returns? Pretty sure there are lots of people reading this thread that would switch gears in a heartbeat for a more passive, double digit COC return.

  • Investor · Frisco, TX · Member since 2015 · 84 posts · 52 votes
    10y

    I have been in the group for about 6 months.  The group has been running for about 5 years.  I spent quite a bit of time talking with deal sponsors, passive investors and the group mentor before the I joined.  After joining I have done about 15 hours of training and reviewed a number of deals.  Most of the apartments are in the DFW area, but I have invested OKC and Jacksonville, FL.  The group meets face-to-face about every two months, so I have a good opportunity to talk to those who have invested much more than I.

    Times are good in real estate now, but this can change at anytime.

  • Greg H.Pro Member
    Moderator
    Broker/Flipper · Austin, TX · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:
    Originally posted by @Greg H.:

     In what turnkey model dies the TK provider take responsibility for vacancy? Maybe you mean that once the sale is done, the risk is with the buyer. That is true but it is true no matter how you buy the property, turnkey or not. So the key challenge is management of the property after purchase. I have always said that that is THE most critical part  that determines success or failure of the business. Not whether you paid $5K more or less for a $50K property. So the lesson is: you have to be sure of the PM more than anything else.

     Per the OP, she was guaranteed a rental rate and a cap rate with the TK provider making up the difference ( I assume only for a set period of time ) Therefore, the TK is considered about vacancies and PM issues as they lower their profit

     Per the OP:

    "According to our contract, the house would be fully rehabbed with new plumbing, electrical and appliances and have a tenant in place before closing. We were also promised a paying tenant in the house at closing; a specific rental amount; a specific cap rate; and told that if the rental rate was not met, the sales price for the house would be lowered to maintain the cap rate. All of these stipulations were promised jointly by Mr. Lewis and Maverick during a webinar in March."

    Being promised something in a webinar is not really a promise IMO.  Typically those kinds of promised are referred to as marketing.  Do we know if all of these stipulations were in writing for this particular property?  When the OP found out that the rent was not what was as originally projected, the provider refused to make good on this "promise".  But, miraculously, they were able to get the fake tenants to go back and agree to a higher rent.  :)

     K Marie-  you are correct.  I didnt catch the promised part after the per the contract. My multitasking skills are lacking as I was flipping between 3 football games and posting on BP. Since I am only flipping between 2 games now, I should be good

  • Bellevue, WA · Member since 2014 · 22 posts · 2 votes
    10y

    Thanks for the post Ann !  Coming to this group I am already starting to learn what to look out for when working with TK providers 

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    10y

    @Doug Johnson  I presume these deals are for accredited investors only?

  • Investor · Frisco, TX · Member since 2015 · 84 posts · 52 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:

    @Doug Johnson  I presume these deals are for accredited investors only?

    Some of the deals are available for sophisticated investors who can show a competency in real estate. 

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    10y

    @Doug Johnson  code for accredited other wise they need to elect some of the smaller PPM type offerings were they can have fewer than 35 and only up to a million..

    I personally am Very cautious on this route from the investor side.. ITS ALL ABOUT THE SPONSOR ... because as an investor once your in your in and you have no control. there is just as many of these deals suffer complete wipeouts as there is TK wipe outs.. don't kid yourself... LOL... been around these since the early 80's and have seen my share melt downs. 

  • Investor · Frisco, TX · Member since 2015 · 84 posts · 52 votes
    10y

    I totally agree with being very cautious about these deals.  I know the deal sponsors personally and most of the other passive investors.  It is not common, but deal sponsors do get voted out on occasion.  The keys are reading the monthly reports closely, visiting the properties and talking with the rest of the investors often.  

  • Investor · Central Valley, CA · Member since 2012 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Greg H.:

    Being promised something in a webinar is not really a promise IMO.  Typically those kinds of promised are referred to as marketing.  Do we know if all of these stipulations were in writing for this particular property?  When the OP found out that the rent was not what was as originally projected, the provider refused to make good on this "promise".  But, miraculously, they were able to get the fake tenants to go back and agree to a higher rent.  :)

     K Marie-  you are correct.  I didnt catch the promised part after the per the contract. My multitasking skills are lacking as I was flipping between 3 football games and posting on BP. Since I am only flipping between 2 games now, I should be good

    Webinar promises have to be worth at least as much as the paper they are printed on, right?  Back to the games!

  • Toronto, Ontario · Member since 2014 · 615 posts · 172 votes
    10y

    @Ann Howell

    Let me start by thanking you for sharing your experience in the forum.....It is indeed a learning point to us all in this community.

    I attended the webiner for the Birmingham TK in which Marverick promised heaven and earth, guaranteeing investment outcomes as if the had a crystal ball, Well, I felt it was oversold and probably over marketed...just like any other 'shows' they put up for other locations, including phillaldephia.

    By the way, Marverick is just  a marketer and does not own any property anywhere.......

    Although extra due diligence may have saved the day, but I do not utterly blame you for not extending due diligence to the seller; after all, Marverick guaranteed them...but needless to say, guarantee is as good as the guarantor, and from this story, am not sure Marverick has much of it.

    I am happy you finally got an investment property although as a much higher and painful cost.

    Of greater concern to me, really, is the place of law in seeking redress here: 

    1. 1. if forged documents were used to close on this property, are there no legal implications? 
    2. 2. Cant Marverick be brought to book by the law for misreprsentation? 
    3. 3. If they claim the house was tenanted but turned out otherwise, doesnt the law prove a platform for the greived to seek redress? 
    4. 4. If such things could happen and the perpetrators are allowed to go scot free and continue with thier henious acts, how and when do we put an end to such fraud in the industry?

     My one cent!

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Seattle, WA · Member since 2014 · 54 posts · 19 votes
    10y

    Thank you to everyone posting here. It definitely helps to know the pros and cons of using a turnkey company out of state. I have been looking at some companies in Texas and Memphis since my market here in WA sucks for rentals and its hard to find one I can afford with a good COC.

  • Brie SchmidtBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Chicago, IL · Member since 2013 · 6k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    10y

    @Ann Howell - Even if you have an independent inspector, have a local BP member go, give yo their opinion of the rehab, the area, what market rents would be what the value is, ect.  That is all info only a local who knows their market can provide.

    I may have missed it... but what did Maverick say when you brought this issue to them and what have they done about it?  Anything?

  • Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes
    10y

    @Alex Craig

    Not to derail the thread or anything but a thought I had while reading through this thread. Why do you and other "traditional" turnkey operators choose to buy, fix and flip properties as opposed to just brokering property to investors then managing it for them? 

    The amount of money you make is not all that much more than we make when we broker deals for clients but you have to put so much more of your money into the deal and are bottlenecked at what you can afford to buy and flip at any given time. 

    Just curious if you or other "turnkey" providers ever looked into a different way of going about things than the normal route of buy,fix and sell? To me the juice that comes from buy, fix and sell was never worth the squeeze.

    I believe @Douglas Skipworth company does things like we do. What are your thoughts on this Doug? Making an average of 7k to me does not seem worth the capital investment when I can likely do 3 brokered deals in the same time frame and make an average of 2k per deal without having to deploy all of that capital. Did you guys every look into more of a traditional turnkey model?

  • Joel OwensBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
    10y

    I think the problem is people do not give it to investors straight on what to expect.

    Companies try to over promise and then under deliver trying to WOW people to get business.

    If you show passion, knowledge, competency you do not need to show fluff. Anyone who says guarantee, can't lose, way overmarket returns, etc. should send off warning bells.

    I looked at buying houses for cash years ago and reselling them for quick cash gains but everyone wants these additional services for PM and all of that. I do not focus on residential so I passed on that avenue.

    Do one thing at a very,very high level and people will seek you out to conduct business. 

    A lot of companies are in and out of this business trying to make a quick buck in a cycle. The companies that are in it for the long haul and have seen the ups and downs of real estate are ones investors should strongly consider. The returns might not be as sexy but the extra promised returns from other companies might never happen so it does not matter anyways.

  • Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Joel Owens:

    I think the problem is people do not give it to investors straight on what to expect.

    Companies try to over promise and then under deliver trying to WOW people to get business.

    If you show passion, knowledge, competency you do not need to show fluff. Anyone who says guarantee, can't lose, way overmarket returns, etc. should send off warning bells.

    Great insight Joel. I get asked on a pretty regular basis if I can guarantee investors that the tenants I place for them won't be evicted. I tell them we do our best to screen but the only thing I can guarantee is that if you work with us long enough we will eventually place a tenant who later needs to be evicted. It's just part of the biz.

  • Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Ann Howell:

    In March 2015, we worked through Maverick Investor Group to purchase a property in Birmingham, Alabama. The Seller was Birmingham Income Properties - owned by Brad Lewis and Bryan Conwill. Property Management would be done by their other company, Arbor Trace Real Estate.

    There were many difficulties during the rehab and purchase process. Most importantly, about two months after closing on the purchase, we discovered there was not a tenant in the property.

    According to our contract, the house would be fully rehabbed with new plumbing, electrical and appliances and have a tenant in place before closing. We were also promised a paying tenant in the house at closing; a specific rental amount; a specific cap rate; and told that if the rental rate was not met, the sales price for the house would be lowered to maintain the cap rate. All of these stipulations were promised jointly by Mr. Lewis and Maverick during a webinar in March.

    Problems started during the rehab process. Timelines kept getting missed. The Seller claimed work was done that wasn’t and frequently lied about issues. Fortunately we hired an independent inspector who helped us hold them accountable for doing the promised work. The inspector pointed out an old water heater that the Seller claimed was new, among many other issues. We often discussed these issues with Maverick; their response was to praise our due diligence and repeat the promises we had been given.

    The Seller told us a tenant was lined up, but at a lower rental rate than promised. We mentioned up the rent guarantee. The Seller refused to lower the sales price, and eventually told us the tenant had agreed to the original rent amount. Shortly before closing the Seller sent us a copy of a signed lease. We closed on the purchase in July, and hired Arbor Trace for property management.

    Almost two months passed and we did not receive any rent or owner’s statements. We contacted Arbor Trace to ask about the situation; we discovered the companies were collapsing in dramatic fashion. One staff member told us the house we had bought was not occupied. We called the electric company and verified that there was no power at the house. The lease we had been shown in order to get us to close at the agreed price was a fraudulent lease!

    At that point, we reached out to another PM group in Birmingham. They helped us secure the house (which was empty) and get the lawn cut (there was a city citation on the door about the overgrown lawn).

    We are not convinced that this drama is over yet. But so far, we have:

    • Bought a house that will cash flow for $200 less a month than promised
    • Dealt with a fraudulent lease
    • Had to find a new PM company
    • Had to spend at least $1000 to get the house rent ready
    • Paid a $500 bill to the electrical company to cover an unpaid bill
    • Been sent one check by the Seller to cover some costs – the check bounced (twice)
    • Received no substantive support from Maverick – they completely failed on their due diligence

    Knowing how BP folks feel about turnkey properties in general, I want to say that we are not against the approach – we are in the process of closing two other turnkey properties with two different companies.

    Our warning – stay away from the groups and people mentioned here and always do your due diligence!

    So, you got burned and you're doing the "turn-key" dance again?  Wow!

    There are so many ways to cheat with turn key deals, but, it's like used car dealers, I'm sure there is an honest one, it's getting past the 4,872 who aren't to find one. But, hang in there, you only have 4,870 more to go. :)

  • Greg H.Pro Member
    Moderator
    Broker/Flipper · Austin, TX · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:
    Originally posted by @Greg H.:

    Being promised something in a webinar is not really a promise IMO.  Typically those kinds of promised are referred to as marketing.  Do we know if all of these stipulations were in writing for this particular property?  When the OP found out that the rent was not what was as originally projected, the provider refused to make good on this "promise".  But, miraculously, they were able to get the fake tenants to go back and agree to a higher rent.  :)

     K Marie-  you are correct.  I didnt catch the promised part after the per the contract. My multitasking skills are lacking as I was flipping between 3 football games and posting on BP. Since I am only flipping between 2 games now, I should be good

    Webinar promises have to be worth at least as much as the paper they are printed on, right?  Back to the games!

    K Marie- You are correct.  The "I was promised in the Webimar" vs "in the Contract" changes my thought on the deal 180 degrees.  One of my good friends is a Real Estate Attorney and over the years he has asked me to help out people that have invested in some cases hundreds of thousands of dollars based on a guru theory/TK provider gone wrong.  The common thread in all of them is they spent $50k-$400k but couldn't be bothered to spend $400 for an airline ticket to see if it passed the eyeball test

  • Douglas SkipworthBusiness Member
    Rental Property Investor · Memphis, TN · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @James Wise:

    @Alex Craig

    Not to derail the thread or anything but a thought I had while reading through this thread. Why do you and other "traditional" turnkey operators choose to buy, fix and flip properties as opposed to just brokering property to investors then managing it for them? 

    The amount of money you make is not all that much more than we make when we broker deals for clients but you have to put so much more of your money into the deal and are bottlenecked at what you can afford to buy and flip at any given time. 

    Just curious if you or other "turnkey" providers ever looked into a different way of going about things than the normal route of buy,fix and sell? To me the juice that comes from buy, fix and sell was never worth the squeeze.

    I believe @Douglas Skipworth company does things like we do. What are your thoughts on this Doug? Making an average of 7k to me does not seem worth the capital investment when I can likely do 3 brokered deals in the same time frame and make an average of 2k per deal without having to deploy all of that capital. Did you guys every look into more of a traditional turnkey model?

    I had the exact same thought that you did when I read Alex Craig's post about only making a few bucks on turnkey deals!

    My impression has always been that TK companies are making $10-$20k per deal for all the risk they are assuming (i.e., buying the property, rehabbing the property, placing a resident, and then holding the property in inventory until it is sold). To me, TK providers earn higher profits because they are adding more value.

    On the flip side, the TK alternative of traditional brokerage and traditional construction management is a lot safer for middle men since they have no personal or company capital at risk (this is one of the 3 reasons why I have chosen to stay out of the TK game). Therefore, earning a small, but fair commission or a management fee seems to be appropriate compensation for the broker.

    The other 2 reasons why I have chosen the TK alternative route are as follow.

    1. Personally, I don't like the thought of selling someone a product at retail price because there is little or no margin of safety for the consumer if things go wrong or change.  And the last thing I want is someone dragging my name through the mud for providing a bad or misleading service (which might or might not be true) it they are dissatisfied (we have enough trouble like that on the property management side of the business).

    2. My end game has always been to be a buy and hold investor so, up to this point in time, I have used all of my borrowing capacity to do deals for myself.  That is, if a bank is willing to loan me a million dollars I want to use that capital to build my personal investment portfolio and then just earn a commission for helping other buy properties instead of using the $1 million to buy and flip properties to them.

    Sorry for the long answer, but you asked a great question based on Alex's presentation of the numbers.

    Why do other non-turnkey providers stay out of the TK game?

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  • Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes
    10y

    @Douglas Skipworth

    Your take on it pretty much mirrors my own.

  • Douglas SkipworthBusiness Member
    Rental Property Investor · Memphis, TN · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    10y

    Thanks, @James Wise.

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  • Investor · Frisco, TX · Member since 2015 · 84 posts · 52 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Brie Schmidt:

    I am so sorry to hear about this.  It is unfortunate that people operate in this manner and that Maverick did not step in to fix things for you.  

    Thanks for sharing so others can learn from it.

    FYI - My advice for out of state investors who can't make it to the market is to hire a local BP member to attend the inspection.  Get a disinterested third party involved to be your eyes and ears... well worth a few hundred bucks.  

     Brie;

    Having a "local" Bigger Pockets member be ears/eyes on the ground to check on your TK is a GREAT idea.  Wish I had thought of it when doing my Birmingham TK.

    Everyone;

    I live in the DFW area.  If you need a local set of of eyes/ears to check on your property, let me know.

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