How would you buy this? Best creative purchase scenario wins!!

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How would you buy this? Best creative purchase scenario wins!!

David Dey
Investor · Lakeland, FL · Member since 2015 · 344 posts · 606 votes

@Terry Free has a post in another forum category that someone should come up with a real estate investing video game.  While I am no computer programmer, (I'm the guy who calls support and they ask if it's plugged in... And it isn't) I think a game that could get your creative juices flowing would be amazing.  Sooo...

Here's the game:  I'm going to give you a real life scenario from one of my deals and see how you would purchase it.  Best scenario as determined by votes wins the coveted Super-Duper Supreme Real Investor Grand Poobah award!! (I don't think BP has one of those yet but I think @Joshua D. could get right on that!!  If you want I'll tell you at the end how I did buy it.  Very likely your scenario will be better, But just like the lottery the only chance at winning happens if you play.

Here we go:

Elderly lady has a 10 unit apt building listed in Central Florida for 350k in 04.  She and her Husband had owned it for years before he passed away and the property fell into disrepair.  There is a code enforcement fine on the property at $200 per day, currently at just over 300k.  The city wants to foreclose on their code lien and demolish the building in order to make a parking lot for their puclic gymnasium next door.  The only thing that is stopping them at the moment is that there is a small first mtg with Bank of America for 18k... Which just started a foreclosure process as it is about a year behind in payments.  

So what would you do?

P.S.  Because I want your best scenarios and as true to life as possible, if you have any questions before presenting your scenario, please feel free to ask.  I probably know the answer and if not, I will make it up.

... And GO!!!

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Ned CareyPro Member
Moderator
Investor · Baltimore, MD · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 13k+ votes
10y

I seriously doubt the code enforcement lien is in second position. It is a municipal lien which in most areas puts it in front of the bank. 

You haven't said what the property is worth. What are current rents, what is a pro forma for a re-positioned building and what would the cost of renovations be.

I would offer a price that makes it a good deal now. I would then negotiate to pay a net to seller price so that I could then negotiate with the bank and the city. 

My guess is the city doesn't normally actually charge $200 a day (although it may be allowed by law) The law is very likely applied unevenly. Presuming that is true I would challenge the code violation bill on the fact that it was discrimination. Someone in the building or in title must be of some protected class. I would argue that the only reason you are charging $200 a day on this building when hundreds of buildings around the city are not charge that much is because of the discrimination.

I would also be lobbying city official and elected representatives, to sway them onto my side.

Along the way I would find the "Highest and best use' of the property, then figure the value of the property based on what it could be used for. The city cannot take it without compensating the owner. If the property is valuable enough and you can prove it, this may be leverage stop encourage the city to rethink their plan. My guess is they expect to get if for nothing via the trumped up bogus code fines. Once they realize they will have to come out of pocket for the real value they may reconsider.

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  • Adrian Smude
    Rental Property Investor · Plant City, FL · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 379 votes
    10y

    Is code enforcement willing to negotiate? 

    0Reply
  • David Dey
    OP
    Investor · Lakeland, FL · Member since 2015 · 344 posts · 606 votes
    10y

    Not really, first and most importantly, they will NOT negotiate with you until you've brought the property into compliance.  Not to mention that they want the property to turn into a parking lot.

    Sooo, you're either going to have to pay them off, figure out how to get them to make an exception or figure out how to get rid of them.

    0Reply
  • Steve Vaughan
    Rental Property Investor · East Wenatchee, WA · Member since 2014 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
    10y

    I would probably satisfy BofA and slap a $400k first position mortgage on it from one of my LLCs or Mgt Corp.  If juicy enough, it may be worth a $50k dice roll at the compliance dept table.

    2Reply
  • Account Closed
    Professional Auctioneer · Baltimore, MD · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    10y

    Big problem, the local government has the hammer. They can take the property and pay the bank off and build their parking lot. 

    If the wife had mortgage insurance with BOA the mortgage could be paid off. Mortgagors forget about this most of the time. I'd want to look at her mortgage doc. 

    I would review her mortgage docs to try to find mistakes in the docs, like a misquoted APR, a mistake in the legal description, an escrow over charge in payments, an illegal interest. File a notice to defend or file a suit against BOA. This will delay the foreclosure.

    Determine the actual cap rate based on the existing rents. Negotiate directly with the owner of the property, showing her the cap rate and the value based in the CAP Rate and condition of the building

    Get in the chain of title by making her an offer well below the market value and based on the cost of abating the code violations, the low offer  would be an hybrid, meaning paying her a percent of the net profit realized over the contract price. This offer would be a delayed settlement subject finding an assignee.

    Next, talk to code enforcement and the Mayor or whom ever runs that municipality to let them know that this is a hardship case, ask them to take this situation under advisement  and to give this elderly owner an opportunity to abate the code violations and elimate the fines. Taking her property for their public use would be immoral. 

    If successful so far, clean up the property, replace tenants who will pay more, increase the value and the CAP.

    Put the property on the market or offer it at a reserve public auction.

    Go to settlement, collect your assignment fee, give owner the offered price plus the hybrid percentage.

    There are lots of missing information here, but based on what you state, this is my best solution.

    Charles Parrish

    3Reply
  • Doug N.
    Lynnwood, WA · Member since 2015 · 221 posts · 157 votes
    10y

    @David Dey I have no idea, but my atty would like to know what the prize is. He would also like you to be aware of your possibly definite and willful infringement on my own (heavily trademarked) BP award show, namely The First Annual Weekly Funny Funny BP Comments Award Show™. Thank in advance!  

    I actually think this is a great idea, a competition like this - it really makes for more interesting posts than "Tenant is rigging the meter - what should I do?" I think you have a whole bushel of these for future posting, no?

    My first guess would be to see if there are structural issues with the compliance complaint(s), and try to unwind most of it - somehow. 

    Then I would... ok, I've got nothing. 

    Your comments indicate a solution in either B or C...

    you're either going to have to pay them off, figure out how to get them to make an exception or figure out how to get rid of them.

    OK, I'm sticking with my original guess... negotiate via summons and complaint, or some kind of fancy paperwork footwork. 

    Please do post more of these if you have them. I really like awards. Cheers!

    1Reply
  • David Dey
    OP
    Investor · Lakeland, FL · Member since 2015 · 344 posts · 606 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Steve Vaughan:

    I would probably satisfy BofA and slap a $400k first position mortgage on it from one of my LLCs or Mgt Corp.  If juicy enough, it may be worth a $50k dice roll at the compliance dept table.

     Good thought Steve.  Only problem is that BoA loan being first, and Code enforcement 300k and counting lien is second on the property And if you satisfy the first, the second becomes the first.  So your lien would be inferior to the code lien.  But keep thinking!!

    0Reply
  • David Dey
    OP
    Investor · Lakeland, FL · Member since 2015 · 344 posts · 606 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:

    Big problem, the local government has the hammer. They can take the property and pay the bank off and build their parking lot. 

    If the wife had mortgage insurance with BOA the mortgage could be paid off. Mortgagors forget about this most of the time. I'd want to look at her mortgage doc. 

    I would review her mortgage docs to try to find mistakes in the docs, like a misquoted APR, a mistake in the legal description, an escrow over charge in payments, an illegal interest. File a notice to defend or file a suit against BOA. This will delay the foreclosure.

    Determine the actual cap rate based on the existing rents. Negotiate directly with the owner of the property, showing her the cap rate and the value based in the CAP Rate and condition of the building

    Get in the chain of title by making her an offer well below the market value and based on the cost of abating the code violations, the low offer  would be an hybrid, meaning paying her a percent of the net profit realized over the contract price. This offer would be a delayed settlement subject finding an assignee.

    Next, talk to code enforcement and the Mayor or whom ever runs that municipality to let them know that this is a hardship case, ask them to take this situation under advisement  and to give this elderly owner an opportunity to abate the code violations and elimate the fines. Taking her property for their public use would be immoral. 

    If successful so far, clean up the property, replace tenants who will pay more, increase the value and the CAP.

    Put the property on the market or offer it at a reserve public auction.

    Go to settlement, collect your assignment fee, give owner the offered price plus the hybrid percentage.

    There are lots of missing information here, but based on what you state, this is my best solution.

    Charles Parrish

     Charles some great thoughts here!!  I like what your thinking.  Here are a few pieces that I noticed you pointed out and I'll clarify.  As mentioned, if there are any other missing pieces or you need clarity let me know.  I'll fill in the blanks.

    Clarification 1) yes the city could foreclose on the lien however, this is not a major municipality so they don't have the discretionary funding to pay off the note.  They would have to go through a lengthy process including votes and such to get the money to pay off the lien.  In fact, that mtg is the one thing that is stopping them from just moving forward with the process. P.S.  Word is, that they have reached out to the bank and asked them if they would donate their equity in the note to the city by satisfying it.

    Clarification 2)  the owner is amenable to work however necessary.  The realtor is cooperative because she doesn't have a clue how to resolve this.

    The listing price is set to cover the mtg, the lien, (though the lien keeps growing at $200 a day) the realtor fee and closing costs.  If there is anything left that's a just a bonus.

    Clarification 3) the entire property is in disrepair and 100% vacant.  Though the repairs are not horrible, the estimate was around 150k to repair, though of course it could go up some.

    Again, love your thoughts.

    0Reply
  • David Dey
    OP
    Investor · Lakeland, FL · Member since 2015 · 344 posts · 606 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Doug N.:

    @David Dey I have no idea, but my atty would like to know what the prize is. He would also like you to be aware of your possibly definite and willful infringement on my own (heavily trademarked) BP award show, namely The First Annual Weekly Funny Funny BP Comments Award Show™. Thank in advance!  

    I actually think this is a great idea, a competition like this - it really makes for more interesting posts than "Tenant is rigging the meter - what should I do?" I think you have a whole bushel of these for future posting, no?

    My first guess would be to see if there are structural issues with the compliance complaint(s), and try to unwind most of it - somehow. 

    Then I would... ok, I've got nothing. 

    Your comments indicate a solution in either B or C...

    you're either going to have to pay them off, figure out how to get them to make an exception or figure out how to get rid of them.

    OK, I'm sticking with my original guess... negotiate via summons and complaint, or some kind of fancy paperwork footwork. 

    Please do post more of these if you have them. I really like awards. Cheers!

     @Doug N. thank you for your thoughts.  I have checked with my Atty as well and he insured me that we are completely protected in our venture since our first weekly annual BP awards show is nothing like yours, as it is Hillarious Hillarious BP responses award show. TMI  

    Of course any further correspondence regarding this matter should be directed to the law firm of 

    "Dewey Cheatham & Howe."

    As to the purchase, remember there is no right way or wrong way to do this deal.  I just want to spark some thought processes.  Remember, there are at least 10 ways to do any deal, and probably a lot more.

    Give me your best shots guys!!  Remember the Super Duper Real Estate Investor Grand Poobah award is on the line here!!

    And yes Doug, if this one works, I'll have a bunch more to get you thinking.

    0Reply
  • David Dey
    OP
    Investor · Lakeland, FL · Member since 2015 · 344 posts · 606 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @David Dey:

    @Terry Free has a post in another forum category that someone should come up with a real estate investing video game.  While I am no computer programmer, (I'm the guy who calls support and they ask if it's plugged in... And it isn't) I think a game that could get your creative juices flowing would be amazing.  Sooo...

    Here's the game:  I'm going to give you a real life scenario from one of my deals and see how you would purchase it.  Best scenario as determined by votes wins the coveted Super-Duper Supreme Real Investor Grand Poobah award!! (I don't think BP has one of those yet but I think @Joshua D. could get right on that!!  If you want I'll tell you at the end how I did buy it.  Very likely your scenario will be better, But just like the lottery the only chance at winning happens if you play.

    Here we go:

    Elderly lady has a 10 unit apt building listed in Central Florida for 350k in 04.  She and her Husband had owned it for years before he passed away and the property fell into disrepair.  There is a code enforcement fine on the property at $200 per day, currently at just over 300k.  The city wants to foreclose on their code lien and demolish the building in order to make a parking lot for their puclic gymnasium next door.  The only thing that is stopping them at the moment is that there is a small first mtg with Bank of America for 18k... Which just started a foreclosure process as it is about a year behind in payments.  

    So what would you do?

    P.S.  Because I want your best scenarios and as true to life as possible, if you have any questions before presenting your scenario, please feel free to ask.  I probably know the answer and if not, I will make it up.

    ... And GO!!!

     @Brian Gibbons I know you are the man when it comes to creative investing.  Can I get you to weigh in?

    0Reply
  • Ned CareyPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Baltimore, MD · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    10y

    I seriously doubt the code enforcement lien is in second position. It is a municipal lien which in most areas puts it in front of the bank. 

    You haven't said what the property is worth. What are current rents, what is a pro forma for a re-positioned building and what would the cost of renovations be.

    I would offer a price that makes it a good deal now. I would then negotiate to pay a net to seller price so that I could then negotiate with the bank and the city. 

    My guess is the city doesn't normally actually charge $200 a day (although it may be allowed by law) The law is very likely applied unevenly. Presuming that is true I would challenge the code violation bill on the fact that it was discrimination. Someone in the building or in title must be of some protected class. I would argue that the only reason you are charging $200 a day on this building when hundreds of buildings around the city are not charge that much is because of the discrimination.

    I would also be lobbying city official and elected representatives, to sway them onto my side.

    Along the way I would find the "Highest and best use' of the property, then figure the value of the property based on what it could be used for. The city cannot take it without compensating the owner. If the property is valuable enough and you can prove it, this may be leverage stop encourage the city to rethink their plan. My guess is they expect to get if for nothing via the trumped up bogus code fines. Once they realize they will have to come out of pocket for the real value they may reconsider.

    4Reply
  • Justin R.
    Developer · San Diego, CA · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    10y
    If the city doesn't have $18k discretionary to buy out the bank, I would guess they would be willing to settle the code enforcement for waaaayyyy less - it's found money for them. Maybe you make it clear to the city that it's a legal headache to take the property and there just won't be a parking lot, negotiate the code compliance down to $25k or something, and invite the local TV crew out to show them what the city was able to help you do with the newly rehabbed property. Lots of missing details ... Just thoughts. FWIW, I've dealt with a couple code compatible situations and have never seen someone actually have to pay any fines. Fees for permits as a result of the code enforcement, yes.
    2Reply
  • Ceasar Blackman
    Real Estate Agent · Orlando, FL · Member since 2013 · 270 posts · 40 votes
    10y

    @David Dey not a clue but reading very intently. I like your post David quite thought provoking.. good read 

    1Reply
  • David Dey
    OP
    Investor · Lakeland, FL · Member since 2015 · 344 posts · 606 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Ned Carey:

    I seriously doubt the code enforcement lien is in second position. It is a municipal lien which in most areas puts it in front of the bank. 

    You haven't said what the property is worth. What are current rents, what is a pro forma for a re-positioned building and what would the cost of renovations be.

    I would offer a price that makes it a good deal now. I would then negotiate to pay a net to seller price so that I could then negotiate with the bank and the city. 

    My guess is the city doesn't normally actually charge $200 a day (although it may be allowed by law) The law is very likely applied unevenly. Presuming that is true I would challenge the code violation bill on the fact that it was discrimination. Someone in the building or in title must be of some protected class. I would argue that the only reason you are charging $200 a day on this building when hundreds of buildings around the city are not charge that much is because of the discrimination.

    I would also be lobbying city official and elected representatives, to sway them onto my side.

    Along the way I would find the "Highest and best use' of the property, then figure the value of the property based on what it could be used for. The city cannot take it without compensating the owner. If the property is valuable enough and you can prove it, this may be leverage stop encourage the city to rethink their plan. My guess is they expect to get if for nothing via the trumped up bogus code fines. Once they realize they will have to come out of pocket for the real value they may reconsider.

     Actually, it all depends on how the particular municipality writes its bylaws.  In this particular city and unless otherwise specified in the city's bylaws (as confirmed by this city's attorney)  the lien is a lien and is subject to the order of recording.

    As to the code enforcement, there are two types of code liens.  

    Abatement liens and administrative liens.  Abatement liens are where the city actually resolves the problem out of pocket.  (Ex: mow the yard, secure the building, etc.)  These liens are non-negotiable as they have spent the money already.

    Administrative liens are the scary ones because they can add up over time.  These range from 15-250 dollars a day as long as not in compliance on average, depending on severity of the violation.  (Ex: bare wood on house $15 per day, unsecured building $150 per day, refrigerator outside not on its back with doors off 200-250 per day because tipping danger with kids playing around could get stuck inside)

    However with administrative liens, most can be negotiated for pennies less admin costs as long property has been brought into compliance.  

    Now in regard to foreclosing on a "blighted property" based on the lien or noncompliance, this does not fall into the same category as eminent domain where they have to recompense the owner for the value of the property.  (See Detroit, New Orleans, Tampa, Jacksonville, where they are using the same concept to bulldoze blighted properties, they then lien them and have the right to foreclose on that lien.  Normally they don't, but they could)

    To your statement, I would agree with you that code enforcement does not have near enough oversight over it.  There most definitely is discrimination, (not always racial or socioeconomic) just as simple personal dislikes at times, or yes an anterior motive like this one.  I know of a lawsuit right now in the city of Tampa regarding a well warrented lawsuit regarding discrimination.

    The seller is elderly, which Florida does take very seriously, so there may be some protection for her based on her age.

    I like your thinking.  

    0Reply
  • Brent Coombs
    Investor · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2015 · 6k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    10y

    Maybe you could come to an agreement with the Seller regarding having first option to buy sub-to, and suggest asking if the Seller would agree with asking someone like Linda Thomas (or other Erin Brockovich type) to poke a stick at the County arguing conflict-of-interest or patently unfair practices or some such?

    http://flaglerlive.com/65101/code-enforcement-laws...

    3Reply
  • David Dey
    OP
    Investor · Lakeland, FL · Member since 2015 · 344 posts · 606 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Justin R.:

    If the city doesn't have $18k discretionary to buy out the bank, I would guess they would be willing to settle the code enforcement for waaaayyyy less - it's found money for them.

    Maybe you make it clear to the city that it's a legal headache to take the property and there just won't be a parking lot, negotiate the code compliance down to $25k or something, and invite the local TV crew out to show them what the city was able to help you do with the newly rehabbed property.

    Lots of missing details ... Just thoughts.

    FWIW, I've dealt with a couple code compatible situations and have never seen someone actually have to pay any fines. Fees for permits as a result of the code enforcement, yes.

     They have the money but just like any municipality, lots of red tape especially since it's not something not on their annual budget.

    Get the media involved, great thought!!

    0Reply
  • David Dey
    OP
    Investor · Lakeland, FL · Member since 2015 · 344 posts · 606 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Brent Coombs:

    Maybe you could come to an agreement with the Seller regarding having first option to buy sub-to, and suggest asking if the Seller would agree with asking someone like Linda Thomas (or other Erin Brockovich type) to poke a stick at the County arguing conflict-of-interest or patently unfair practices or some such?

    http://flaglerlive.com/65101/code-enforcement-laws...

     I'd give you 5 votes myself if I could, for the link alone!!  I'd love to do that on a dozen or more cases!!

    2Reply
  • Brent Coombs
    Investor · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2015 · 6k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @David Dey:
    Originally posted by @Brent Coombs:

    Maybe you could come to an agreement with the Seller regarding having first option to buy sub-to, and suggest asking if the Seller would agree with asking someone like Linda Thomas (or other Erin Brockovich type) to poke a stick at the County arguing conflict-of-interest or patently unfair practices or some such?

    http://flaglerlive.com/65101/code-enforcement-laws...

     I'd give you 5 votes myself if I could, for the link alone!!  I'd love to do that on a dozen or more cases!!

    Thanks. Hmmm; I wonder if this game is governed by maximum votes for an individual post, or total votes per member? Cheers...

    0Reply
  • Brian Ragsdale
    Flipper/Rehabber · Chicago, IL · Member since 2012 · 45 posts · 24 votes
    10y

    Just an audience member, sitting here with my popcorn.  

    Ok, sorry only trying to be witty.

    Scenario 1:  I would call BoA and work out a deal with them, to pay them off and to secure new financing. 

    Scenario 2:  I would co-own the property with the widow, explore crowdfunding the property or find angel investors.  Some of the cash flow would go to the widow for her retirement fund.  I don't want her to lose everything, and I want her heirs to benefit from the work of this couple. 

    If Scenario Two is agreed to--then I would hire a college student to help me with a press release and marketing campaign.  There would be pictures of me and the widow, and the story of how I can work with older and wiser folks who may have come on hard times with developing partnerships. A win -win situation.  This campaign would also mention BoA if they agreed to participate, if not, I might do a follow up story.

    2Reply
  • David Dey
    OP
    Investor · Lakeland, FL · Member since 2015 · 344 posts · 606 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Brian Ragsdale:

    Just an audience member, sitting here with my popcorn.  

    Ok, sorry only trying to be witty.

    Scenario 1:  I would call BoA and work out a deal with them, to pay them off and to secure new financing. 

    Scenario 2:  I would co-own the property with the widow, explore crowdfunding the property or find angel investors.  Some of the cash flow would go to the widow for her retirement fund.  I don't want her to lose everything, and I want her heirs to benefit from the work of this couple. 

    If Scenario Two is agreed to--then I would hire a college student to help me with a press release and marketing campaign.  There would be pictures of me and the widow, and the story of how I can work with older and wiser folks who may have come on hard times with developing partnerships. A win -win situation.  This campaign would also mention BoA if they agreed to participate, if not, I might do a follow up story.

     Man, That must be some smart popcorn!!  I love both of those ideas!!  Only problem with scenario one is, again, that if you pay off BoA then the second lien of the code enforcement becomes the first, blocking your other financing.  (Unless your financing doesn't mind being a second behind a megalomaniacal municipality.... Man that was a big word, thank God for  auto-correct)  

    Scenario 2 is awesome!!  I wish I had thought of that!! (I went a different way, but I think yours may have been better.. Or at least a hybrid of the two)  I'd love an explanation of how and where you would explore your crowdfunding.  This also shows your heart!!  That you are a true win/win scenario investor!!  I love it!!  I also love the creativity of the press release!!  Again, I wish I had thought of that!! And incorporating BoA if they work with you?  That's some smart popcorn!!

    Ok investors!! Keep em coming!! But be warned, Brian Ragsdale has thrown down the gauntlet!!  I smell POOBAH!!  

    Keep em coming!! :)

    0Reply
  • Brian Ragsdale
    Flipper/Rehabber · Chicago, IL · Member since 2012 · 45 posts · 24 votes
    10y

    Good Morning David....There is an attorney in Indianapolis who writes about crowdfunding, (please google him)...There are lots of regulations related to it, but if it continues to past muster in the legislative processes, this may be viable options in the future...I don't know much about it, but like the concept that lots of people can participate, because it opens up avenues for people to invest in real estate. 

    The press release brings media attention, and this can be a win-win situation for everybody.  Media is a powerful way to create decisional frameworks.  By this I mean, we often think differently about things once the media becomes involves, it influences our decision making processes.  The difference, unfortunately, between right and wrong is now a culturally derived and global influenced concept. I am not saying that I agree with it, but drones are coming and we as a society will have to decide how we want to deal with them.

    The municipality could work with "us" as the co-owners, the older folks in the community can gain respect and acknowledgement (because they see that if they might fall on hard times, someone might come with creative solutions), the bank might be persuaded to do the right thing or the next best right thing (banks owe us a great deal, particularly with the too big to fail fiasco), the college student gains experience for real world problems (this should help when looking for a job), and the heirs of the widow can be taken care of (this is important because children have memories and pass the stories down to their children). So much of the world's problem is related to how much we have forgotten this simple fact, children remember what happened to their loved ones.  We have to create a better world so that children do not grow up disheartened, devoid of caring and hope. 

    The beauty of our country is that we should honor the legacies of immigrant and non-immigrant work---the average everyday people who we work with and see in the grocery stores.  I believe that there is a way to combine my social activist heart, my compassion as an artist and psychologist, and my investment goals.  

    I have had lots of help along the way and feel blessed by all of the kindness that was shown to me.  Every field I entered someone opened their heart to touch me, see me, and to help me.  I also think that we can create a better world when we help others....not only teaching the person how to fish but making sure that the children in the village learn it to.

    Sorry I was so long winded, the only way I want to be poobah is if I can share the poobah title with everyone. Everyone who took the time to write, to connect, to share.  

    Ok, I am off to get my breakfast.....thanks for touching my heart.

    2Reply
  • Ned CareyPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Baltimore, MD · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @David Dey:

    Now in regard to foreclosing on a "blighted property" based on the lien or noncompliance, this does not fall into the same category as eminent domain where they have to recompense the owner for the value of the property.  (See Detroit, New Orleans, Tampa, Jacksonville, where they are using the same concept to bulldoze blighted properties, they then lien them and have the right to foreclose on that lien.  Normally they don't, but they could)

     Yes of course, understood.  I should have made it clear, I  meant that if the lien was negotiated or paid.  But I wasn't thinking clearly, if the lien was paid, the city would not likely move forward.

    My point was if the city's true goal is to take the property because they want a parking lot, there may be creative ways to fight it. If they are applying fines, not because it is a standard policy that is applied equally and fairly, but simply to take the property, there may be legal grounds to fight.

    You've heard the saying "you can't fight city hall" That is not really true you can fight and win. However it is very hard and the end result has to be worth it. My guess is it is not in this case, but that is why I asked abut the numbers and the potential for a higher and better use.

    0Reply
  • David Dey
    OP
    Investor · Lakeland, FL · Member since 2015 · 344 posts · 606 votes
    10y

    @Brian Ragsdale  thank you for touching my heart.

    0Reply
  • David Dey
    OP
    Investor · Lakeland, FL · Member since 2015 · 344 posts · 606 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Ned Carey:
    Originally posted by @David Dey:

    Now in regard to foreclosing on a "blighted property" based on the lien or noncompliance, this does not fall into the same category as eminent domain where they have to recompense the owner for the value of the property.  (See Detroit, New Orleans, Tampa, Jacksonville, where they are using the same concept to bulldoze blighted properties, they then lien them and have the right to foreclose on that lien.  Normally they don't, but they could)

     Yes of course, understood.  I should have made it clear, I  meant that if the lien was negotiated or paid.  But I wasn't thinking clearly, if the lien was paid, the city would not likely move forward.

    My point was if the city's true goal is to take the property because they want a parking lot, there may be creative ways to fight it. If they are applying fines, not because it is a standard policy that is applied equally and fairly, but simply to take the property, there may be legal grounds to fight.

    You've heard the saying "you can't fight city hall" That is not really true you can fight and win. However it is very hard and the end result has to be worth it. My guess is it is not in this case, but that is why I asked abut the numbers and the potential for a higher and better use.

     You are absolutely right!!  There are times you can fight city hall.  In fact, there are times you are obligated to fight city hall!!  

    The only thing for me to add is that this is a completed deal, complete with profit almost a 6 figure profit, so the deal was and is worth seeing through till the end, however you can make it happen.

    0Reply
  • William Hochstedler
    Broker · Logan, UT · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    10y

    Try to buy the BoA note.  I've heard it's been done.

    Fun thread.

    1Reply
  • David Dey
    OP
    Investor · Lakeland, FL · Member since 2015 · 344 posts · 606 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @William Hochstedler:

    Try to buy the BoA note.  I've heard it's been done.

    Fun thread.

    Hmmm what an interesting idea!!

    0Reply
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