REAL return on real estate is MUCH lower than many claim here

REAL return on real estate is MUCH lower than many claim here

Real Estate Investor · Rockville, MD · Member since 2015 · 9 posts · 6 votes

Real estate is a good enough investment as is - why tell people fairy tales?

First off, I am talking about pure passive investing. If people want to get into the real estate BUSINESS, and do all the labor that is involved in any business, then that is fine and it can be a great business. But look at an ordinary passive rental property and it comes out no better than investing in the stock market.

And I say this as someone who owns a 2-bedroom condo in the Washington, DC area that rents furnished for $4,000/month long-term (currently on a 25-month lease, i.e. a $100,000 payment guaranteed by the Brazilian Embassy) or up to $8,000/month during peak months when on Airbnb. (Yes, I know most investors invest in the lower end and you can get greater returns there in exchange for more work.)

But in other words, I dumped a lot of money into this property because I like real estate. But when I see things like people saying you'll earn a 50-60% return on your money, that is frankly nonsense. The learning and effort needed to hunt down severely undervalued properties, sometimes out-of-state, the learning and effort of doing renovations and managing contractors, the learning and effort needed to list properties, screen tenants and perform property management - these are things that are needed in running a real estate BUSINESS. This is not a passive investment like making automatic monthly deposits into an index fund for long-term stock investing and then going to spend time with your family. If you own a restaurant and buy pasta for $1 and sell a plate for $10, you don't say pasta is a great investment with a 1000% return!

If you look at PASSIVE single-family investing, i.e. pick a random, well-maintained property at fair market value (and yes, obviously there will be large regional variations - I'm talking averages), you're probably going to need at least a 40% down payment to just not have negative cash flow. Let's say you put 50% down - that may give you the following:

1) a 2% cash-on-cash yield (and even to get that you'll probably need to list and manage the property yourself, which you probably can do since it's a local property not in need of extensive renovations)

2) 6% in leveraged appreciation, since you're leveraged 2-to-1 with a 50% down payment (and assuming 3% appreciation, which is about what Nobel winner Robert Schiller has noted is accurate long-term)

3) a 1.5% equity buildup from loan amortization.

That gives you a return of 2% + 6% + 1.5% = 9.5%. AT FIRST.

But eventually you're going to want to pay off that property. And whether you do that from cash flow or from new money you earn from your job, the return on the loan payoff is 4% (or whatever your mortgage rate happens to be). So if you get a 9.5% return on the first 50% of your money and a 4% return on the second 50%, your total return is going to be closer to 7% or somewhere thereabouts. Unless you plan on never paying off your loans and just taking out new 30-year mortgages into your 60's and 70's. (And yes, I know I am simplifying some things - I have a degree in math so I know how to run these numbers but am intentionally simplifying some things.)

Frankly, you'll probably get your 7% easier from the stock market - Microsoft is never going to call you to fix their toilet or force you to go to court in order to collect your dividend. Again, I like real estate fine now with the artificial stock prices caused by low interest rates, but let's just be honest about the return. Articles about getting 60% returns on your money are why so many investors find themselves desperate to unload their "money pits" despite their 30% down payment.

I think Warren Buffett might know what he's talking when he says that just a generic index fund, purchased over time, is the best way for most people to get rich - and that even for billions, his trustees will be instructed to follow that strategy after his death. And again, I like real estate - more people here just need to differentiate between passive investing and owning a real estate BUSINESS.

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Levi T.Pro Member
Rental Property Investor · Tucson AZ / Nice FR / Washington DC · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
9y
Originally posted by @Rishi Ramlogan:

Real estate is a good enough investment as is - why tell people fairy tales?

First off, I am talking about pure passive investing. If people want to get into the real estate BUSINESS, and do all the labor that is involved in any business, then that is fine and it can be a great business. But look at an ordinary passive rental property and it comes out no better than investing in the stock market.

And I say this as someone who owns a 2-bedroom condo in the Washington, DC area that rents furnished for $4,000/month long-term (currently on a 25-month lease, i.e. a $100,000 payment guaranteed by the Brazilian Embassy) or up to $8,000/month during peak months when on Airbnb. (Yes, I know most investors invest in the lower end and you can get greater returns there in exchange for more work.)

But in other words, I dumped a lot of money into this property because I like real estate. But when I see things like people saying you'll earn a 50-60% return on your money, that is frankly nonsense. The learning and effort needed to hunt down severely undervalued properties, sometimes out-of-state, the learning and effort of doing renovations and managing contractors, the learning and effort needed to list properties, screen tenants and perform property management - these are things that are needed in running a real estate BUSINESS. This is not a passive investment like making automatic monthly deposits into an index fund for long-term stock investing and then going to spend time with your family. If you own a restaurant and buy pasta for $1 and sell a plate for $10, you don't say pasta is a great investment with a 1000% return!

If you look at PASSIVE single-family investing, i.e. pick a random, well-maintained property at fair market value (and yes, obviously there will be large regional variations - I'm talking averages), you're probably going to need at least a 40% down payment to just not have negative cash flow. Let's say you put 50% down - that may give you the following:

1) a 2% cash-on-cash yield (and even to get that you'll probably need to list and manage the property yourself, which you probably can do since it's a local property not in need of extensive renovations)

2) 6% in leveraged appreciation, since you're leveraged 2-to-1 with a 50% down payment (and assuming 3% appreciation, which is about what Nobel winner Robert Schiller has noted is accurate long-term)

3) a 1.5% equity buildup from loan amortization.

That gives you a return of 2% + 6% + 1.5% = 9.5%. AT FIRST.

But eventually you're going to want to pay off that property. And whether you do that from cash flow or from new money you earn from your job, the return on the loan payoff is 4% (or whatever your mortgage rate happens to be). So if you get a 9.5% return on the first 50% of your money and a 4% return on the second 50%, your total return is going to be closer to 7% or somewhere thereabouts. Unless you plan on never paying off your loans and just taking out new 30-year mortgages into your 60's and 70's. (And yes, I know I am simplifying some things - I have a degree in math so I know how to run these numbers but am intentionally simplifying some things.)

Frankly, you'll probably get your 7% easier from the stock market - Microsoft is never going to call you to fix their toilet or force you to go to court in order to collect your dividend. Again, I like real estate fine now with the artificial stock prices caused by low interest rates, but let's just be honest about the return. Articles about getting 60% returns on your money are why so many investors find themselves desperate to unload their "money pits" despite their 30% down payment.

I think Warren Buffett might know what he's talking when he says that just a generic index fund, purchased over time, is the best way for most people to get rich - and that even for billions, his trustees will be instructed to follow that strategy after his death. And again, I like real estate - more people here just need to differentiate between passive investing and owning a real estate BUSINESS.

Funny that you mention Warren Buffett, he has been quoted as saying he would buy up SFH rentals if he just could get it in bulk for the amount of money he has, Blackstone group did it and now is taking their company public with over 1,000 rentals. Even Buffett launched Berkshire Hathaway Real Estate Group recently.

Real estate is one of the best asset classes there is, it's normally just a local type investment which was it's downfall in the days of old, but things are changing quickly in the industry, thus Blackstone group launching a public real estate company.

Only people not making better returns than the stock market are people who are doing it all wrong. You are right about it being a business, just like trading stocks all day long is a business too, that why you have portfolio managers and property mangers. Just like houses, if you buy stocks at the peak price, it's going to be a long road before you get your value out of it, if ever. So buy your favorite assets when you can get them a steel of a deal! 

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  • Joe VilleneuvePro Member
    Plymouth, MI · Member since 2013 · 13k+ posts · 19k+ votes
    9y

    $10M incomes just mean a different REI vehicle, or vehicles, have opened up for them. You're correct when you say it would be difficult to make that investing in SFH....so don't. There have been a number of other examples of where to invest in RE here that don't involve SFH as holds. I myself prefer NNN because I don't want to have to babysit my holds.

    You just have to have a system in place...a business plan that you execute for REI. Mine is a 3 level system I developed that involves:

    1) starting out with cash, or a "cash like substance", as your seed money in Level 1...and never spending it.  I use it to infinity, so the more the merrier.

    2)  Flipping something (yes, it could be SF, but it could be stocks as well) in Level 2, whereby all the profits go back into Level 2 to compound the initial "seed money" from Level 1.

    3) Once your "compounded seed money" grows to a level that allows you enough funds to invest in Level 3 with the new money (profit) that is over the initial Seed Money (remember, I'm never spending...just continually using the initial seed money), I buy my Holds...and my holds are not SFH...they are NNN. I don't want to have to manage anything.

    The only management I need to do is in Level 2 with the flips...and my partner does that, so in the overall scheme of things, my Money is doing all the work...not me.  My time is spent analyzing markets.  

    I can analyze, and find a market(s) based on the Profile generated from my Investment criteria in less than an hour.  When I say I can analyze a market, I'm talking about about 10+/- markets, and every house in that market all at once.  It's all about the markets, not the properties.  Find the right markets, and when the properties pop up...you grab them.  When the markets change, I'm on top of it and adjust accordingly.  Maximum efficiency of my time, and money (which is really my money's time).

  • Real Estate Agent · Maple Valley, WA · Member since 2015 · 40 posts · 13 votes
    9y

    @Joe Villeneuve what's a triple net lease (NNN)?

  • Investor · Round Rock, TX · Member since 2010 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    9y

    The OP is correct about people conflating the return the money is making with what THEY are making by being actively involved.  This has been mentioned on this site for years and years.  You probably do have to dig through posts to find this information though because there is a constant influx of new members and people get tired of rehashing the same topics over and over.  

    Rentals can produce in the mid teens for IRRs, but as you hold them for extended time periods the yields go down.  I personally don't invest in anything I can't make 20% ROE on because it is far easier to buy into index funds.  

    New crowdfunding platforms do exist that have quality sponsors with projects that have profits sharing arrangements with in excess of 20% returns for the equity tranche.  There is certainly event and other risk with owning a single asset here, but there is also all sort of systemic risk in the stock market.  

    What one should be trying to do with a portfolio is optimize the risk/return given their resources.  Most investors lack sufficient capital or access to capital when they get started and thus the efficient frontier for their investments logically looks different than what they teach in finance classes at the university.  It is no wonder they group their active involvement with the rate at which their money is working.  

  • Joe VilleneuvePro Member
    Plymouth, MI · Member since 2013 · 13k+ posts · 19k+ votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Joy Abia:

    @Joe Villeneuve what's a triple net lease (NNN)?

     Triple Net Leases.  It's a commercial type of lease that has a few companies now doing it for residential as well.

  • Mark S.Pro Member
    Rental Property Investor · KY · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 539 votes
    9y
    Rishi Ramlogan , thanks for writing this. I definitely appreciate your post and understand what you're getting at. I look at myself as a perfect example of someone who wants to be truly passive and has no interest in being in the REI "business." From that standpoint, it is easier to simplify the comparison to passive stock market investing (with exception of day trading, as mentioned). 7% passive in stock market versus, say, 10-15% CoC passive REI (syndication, using PM, etc.) is one thing. Marketing for deals, finding deals, self-managing, etc., without 20%+ returns would be insanity. Investing early and often, even at lower returns, is still better than later and no - or worse, later and desperately swinging for the fences.
  • Joe VilleneuvePro Member
    Plymouth, MI · Member since 2013 · 13k+ posts · 19k+ votes
    9y

    There were 100 people in a room, and when asked if a method/system could be done successfully, 99 of them said no...and gave all kinds of standard reasons why not...or why they or their friends/relatives, etc... couldn't do it.  Then used the fact that since the majority couldn't do it, it couldn't be done as a reason for them not doing it.

    There was 1 person left in that room that was successful at it.

    Now here's the choice, and it's one we all make every day.  Do we:

    1)  Hear the unsuccessful majority, and don't do what they didn't succeed at?

    2)  Listen, and ask how, the successful minority succeeded...and do what they did?

    Like I said.  It's a question we are asked many times on a daily basis.  Me, I've always wondered why when there was 1 successful person, why there was only one successful person? 

  • Mark S.Pro Member
    Rental Property Investor · KY · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 539 votes
    9y

    It's not about successful versus unsuccessful.   It's about comparing apples to apples.  Most people on here are successful (or aspire to be and hopefully soon will be).  

    If someone accumulates wealth (even on a smaller scale) by being completely passive and earning lower returns, although it may take longer, that person should still be considered successful.  

    By contrast, if someone else accumulates MORE wealth but does so by being given more hands on (even if it's just a LITTLE bit) and earns a "higher" average rate of return, and thereby accumulating wealth more quickly, this person is also successful (but not necessarily "MORE" successful.  

    Different strokes for different folks.  I'm fine with scenario #1; the time saved/spent doing what I like is "worth it" to me.

    Final comment: the truly passive stock/fund investoris LIKELY to be more truly passive than even the most passive real estate investor, but who cares?  Take the path you want.  To OP's point, though, just don't make unnecessary exaggerations if they're unfounded. And if they are?  Well, good for you; you may be the one miracle boy/girl in the room out of 100.  

  • Real Estate Professional · Miami, FL · Member since 2016 · 38 posts · 5 votes
    9y

    @Joe Villeneuve Great insight. Question: What do you mean by 'right market' and properties coming to you? How do you make that happen? Thank you, sir!

  • Joe VilleneuvePro Member
    Plymouth, MI · Member since 2013 · 13k+ posts · 19k+ votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Bryan Weschler:

    @Joe Villeneuve Great insight. Question: What do you mean by 'right market' and properties coming to you? How do you make that happen? Thank you, sir!

     You don't analyze properties, you analyze markets based on the profiles generated by your criteria from your financial goals.

    This means you have analyzed all the properties in that market.  Some work now, some don't.  Some will work in the future.  When a property comes up for sale that matches your property profile, make the offer.

  • Joel OwensBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
    9y

    I have friends and clients with tens of millions in stock.

    When the stock markets get volatile they do not like the day to day of waking up and seeing 85 a share today and 90- 3 days from now and then 78- 1 week later. When you already have as much wealth as they do they like STABILITY and WEALTH PRESERVATION.

    Taking stock and then selling to place in high quality real estate sponsored deals or owning those assets directly is less volatile. They can simply put debt on the property from the sale of the stock and have national tenants with 2% annual rent increases do the work. They can forecast out yield.

    Remember ENRON anyone??

    My wife and I have been married over 10 years. When we went on a honeymoon to Gatlinburg Tennessee her skin broke out days after we were married. She has hypoallergenic skin and we think the makeup person used something for the wedding that caused a reaction. We went to see a doctor there. Said he thinks a reaction to something and gave her a shot and it cleared up in a few days.

    We were talking and he was from California. Said he moved to Tennessee to retire but had a bunch not all of his money in Enron stock. Almost bankrupted him and he had to go back to work as a doctor in his middle 80's  to make money again.

    I like real estate. Hard assets. Unless the properties are removed by and act of God you always have the land for value. Stock can be worth nothing tomorrow. A hot company can fall out of favor with new technologies etc.

    The people I know with stocks that do very well eat and breathe the stuff and are experts in it. People who sold off their businesses and want to invest typically like commercial real estate assets as they do not understand nor do they want to understand stocks and make it their daily life. They might hold some money there to diversify etc.

    Some people might love stocks but it has never been my thing and never will be.     

    If Josh on Bigger Pockets ever sold some stock I might buy some but he has been holding out on me now for 10 years............... : ) 

  • Investor · Madison, CT · Member since 2014 · 710 posts · 458 votes
    9y

    @Rishi Ramlogan - You are correct that 50%+ returns on 20-25% down payments are not the norm, but neither are the 2% returns you've experienced. It's all about finding the right market, where rents support the purchase prices. No successful investor would dream of making "a random, well-maintained property at fair market value" their investing strategy. It takes time to find the market and then find the deals in that market, but the 10-20% range is completely attainable if you are doing it right.

  • Dawn BrenengenBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    I actually think the great thing about most RE investing is that it's NOT passive.  I get to control a lot of the success that my property gets.  I can treat my tenants well and experience less vacancy.  I can make sure my homes are maintained well and not experience high turnover and huge expenses. I can easily watch my local housing markets and make decisions about what I should buy and when I should sell. 

    I don't have any control over the companies that I buy stock in.  My money is totally at their mercy, and while I do invest in the stock market, I only do so in the amount that can be put in tax advantaged accounts, and the rest goes into real estate.

  • Investor · Coppell, TX · Member since 2008 · 2k+ posts · 646 votes
    9y

     Hello and thank you for your change BP!  Timing has more to do with returns that anybody says.  You have to take everything from the Internet with a grain of salt.  One thing I have noticed about the Internet since I became more active with it you have to talk to people you know and understand. 

    There are many people on the Internet that you cannot believe and just after your hard earned money but BP has the people that are most honest And I appreciate what they say.  If you are busy on the Internet you will come to the same conclusion and that it is not smart to listen to everyone and only those that you know because it is your money to win or lose.  You must take everything you here  mostly negative and know that your returns will be less.

    You need to know when money will be made there are plenty of people that do not tell the whole truth.  Making that the Internet has a bunch of dishonest intent with no laws that should be followed.  You have to be satisfied of the actual returns you can make.  Even if they are half of what you expect they are still pretty good.  Beware of everything you hear from people you do not know personally.  You must work hard to realize real gain and be aware of what you hear.

    Good luck to you! 

  • Investor · New York City, NY · Member since 2015 · 388 posts · 563 votes
    9y

    Fascinating discussion, I've enjoyed reading everyone's posts on this thread. There are so many ways to approach this question. First, the average investor reliably underperforms the stock market(here's a link which shows that the average equity fund investor earned a little over half the S&P 500's return during the last twenty years.) Most behavioral experts suggest that the average equity investor buys and sells at the wrong times. What do stock investors do when there's blood on the street? They panic and sell. What do real estate investors do? They panic and wait. And then, when the news cycle has forgotten about the panic, the real estate investors do too. This is not uniformly true- during some crises, some real estate investors are forced to sell, and that will generally hurt their returns, but the proportion of panicked sellers is likely larger in the stock market than in the real estate market during panics.

    So it seems to me that the stock market brings out the worst in us(by "us," I mean the average "us," not you whizzes out there who are beating the market, so pipe down in the peanut gallery) and real estate brings out the best in us- the less liquid nature of real estate, verse stocks, might be one of real estate's greatest assets to the average investor.

    Then there's the question of measurement itself. Stock market returns are so trivially easy to calculate- pick an index, adjust for splits and dividends, look at its price at one date, look at its price at a second date, throw it into a compound return formula, and presto! You're done. You've found what the return on the index is, but of course the average investor underperforms that, so why not use the average investor's performance as a measurement instead of the more often-used equity index? My guess is that the stock market players want the capital of the average investor so they can...well, you know where I'm going with this. 

    Good luck measuring returns with real estate! First, there's no simple and easy index(Case-Shiller tries to solve this problem, but it's not perfect.) The sales prices of homes in 2016 cannot be easily compared to the sales prices of homes in 2006. What if homes got larger? Or smaller? Or what if construction quality changed? Or what if people prefer smaller(or larger) homes in 2016 than in 2006, causing a distortion in price towards a small or large home? Or what if insurance got more expensive because a higher frequency of natural disasters? (I could go on all day with the what-ifs, but I think you get the point.)  

    So even with Case-Shiller, which tries to adjust for many of these what-ifs, getting a solid read on returns in real estate is extraordinarily challenging. But then- as in the stock market- one has to adjust for how the average guy fares verse the index(a fool's errand, certainly.) But here's the real kicker. We in the US suck at saving money. Let's just face it- we generally are in the lower 50th percentile versus other developed countries(we also suck at picking qualified presidents if you look at the period from 2014-2016, but that's a whole other can of worms.) Investing in leveraged real estate actually forces us to come to terms with this inadequacy. If you have a mortgage, and you want to preserve your rental income, well then you're gonna pay down some principal, buddy(or buddette, let's not be sexist here. And you in the peanut gallery- I know, there are interest-only mortgages, but most investors don't use them.)

    So in summary, and apologies for the extremely long post, I just got rolling and couldn't help myself, real estate enhances the best in investors by inhibiting panic selling during kerfuffles of one sort or another, and suppresses the worst in us, which is our unwillingness to save money on a regular basis. In the stock market, the cards are stacked against you. In the real estate market, a tailwind is the norm. 

    Happy investing! Xo, Michael  

  • Rental Property Investor · Port Coquitlam, BC · Member since 2017 · 520 posts · 527 votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Joe Villeneuve:

     You don't analyze properties, you analyze markets based on the profiles generated by your criteria from your financial goals.

    This means you have analyzed all the properties in that market.  Some work now, some don't.  Some will work in the future.  When a property comes up for sale that matches your property profile, make the offer.

    A fantastic set of insights Joe. I like your mindset and systems-based approach.  

  • Real Estate Investor · Kilauea, HI · Member since 2016 · 7 posts · 2 votes
    9y

    I'm fairly new to the REI game, but I feel that real estate is like surfing—you need to enjoy the sucky parts if you want to get good enough to enjoy the great parts. Personally, I think people tell fairy tails about both the stock market and real estate. Personally, I like real estate, and i was going to open houses and running numbers on properties for many years before we decided to buy an investment property on purpose. (We bought a couple on accident. LOL. But thats a different story.)

    5% cap rate is pretty typical in a lot of cities. I'm happy to get 8% on my current properties, especially since my Seattle one is going up in value. But as for the idea of getting 7% on stocks with zero effort—hahahaha. I've had money in the stock market forever and I've never seen that kind of return.

    It's all about doing the math. What are you borrowing at, and what can you rent it (or sell it) for? Pie in the sky stories are lovely, but I'm a conservative person by nature. I'd rather a guaranteed 8% than a risky 15%. Unless it's a flip situation. I don't think I'd flip a house unless I was sure of making a ton of money. But that comes down to the market. Some markets are great for flipping and some suck. And if you want to invest close to home, flipping isn't always an option.

  • Peter TverdovBusiness Member
    Developer · New Brunswick, NJ · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Dave Toelkes:

    @Rishi Ramlogan

    In my opinion, there is no such thing as a passive investment.  All successful investments, including real estate, need to be actively managed. Although the IRS (by definition) has characterized the income from a real estate rental activity as passive income, this definition in no way implies that the management of the activity is also passive.  

    A rental property owner can outsource all of the day-to-day property management activities to a professional property management firm and get close to a turnkey operation, but the owner still needs to actively manage the manager.

     I strongly disagree with this statement. That is called micro managing and no one likes it. If you hired someone to do their job, maybe check in with them a lot at first but once they've demonstrated they can handle the work - piss off and let them do the job they were hired to do. I am a PM and if my owners were constantly nagging me weekly I would honestly drop them. I don't even take certain owners in the on-boarding process when I can sense they'll be like this.

  • Investor · Hawaiian Gardens, CA · Member since 2015 · 308 posts · 386 votes
    9y

    One thing that hasn't been mentioned in Real Estate vs Stocks is the tax implications. You put 10k into stocks, get 10% return = 11k. But then you get taxed 15% (if you wait for the more favorable long-term capital gains tax) on you earnings.

    Example in real estate for rental property, you get a 10% return, but then you add in mortgage interest deduction, depreciation, any repairs, maintenance, property manager.. etc.

    The tax benefits of owning real estate far outweigh any tax benefits from stocks.

  • Investor · Pueblo West, CO · Member since 2014 · 310 posts · 213 votes
    9y

    I have two single family rentals. I self-manage from out of state, but I don't perform any repairs by myself. I hire it all out. I probably average 15 hours/year of work on each rental for a total of 30 hours/year because I have two. It's not 100% passive, but it works for me.

    When you have securities, how much time to you spend logging into your account and checking the balance? How much time do you spend talking with a financial advisor or rebalancing on your own? It's not going to be zero. Maybe 10 hours/year?

    My hourly breakdown is below.

    I had to replace a toilet once because the holding tank was wasting water. The tenants sent me an email about the problem. I was already aware of it, but it had gotten worse. It probably took me about 2 minutes to read the email. I called my handyman and we had about a 5 minute conversation about it. I spent 5 minutes responding to the tenants email explaining that they needed to coordinate with the handyman for the repair. The handyman emailed me a bill and it took about 3 minutes to pay the bill with a credit card. Total time spent was 15 minutes. If you don't have a responsible and reliable handyman, it could take much longer. I also only invest in houses with at least two bathrooms, so there is never a bathroom repair emergency.

    I had to replace a washing machine about 3 years ago. I purchased it on-line at Home Depot. This one probably took me 30 minutes because I spent 20 minutes on trying to decide between two different models of washing machines. They delivered and installed for free.

    I do yearly leases and most tenants stay for 2 years. If the tenants renew their lease, my total time spent is around 10 hours for the entire year. If I get new tenants, it's going to cost me an extra 15 hours of my time.

    I put an ad on craigslist. It probably takes me 2 hours of my time to respond to all the emails and set up appointments. I usually set up about 10 appointments during a 4 hour block, for two days in a row (Sat & Sun). That is 20 total appointments and 8 hours of my time.

    I like to do touch up painting in the house in between appointments, maybe replace a few light bulbs and other small things. I put on my dirty painting clothes when I interact with the tenants. I do this on purpose. I don't want them thinking I'm a super rich landlord. I play the small operation "mom and pop" landlord card.

    I spend another 3 hours going over the applications, emailing prospective tenants and talking to them on the phone before deciding on a group. 

    Lastly, I spend about 2 hours on 2 separate "walk-throughs" About 2 days before the old tenants move out, I spend 1 hour on a walk-through. I give them a chance to fix little things before they move out. On moving day, I do the final walk-through with the old tenants and new tenants at the same time, regarding the condition of the house.

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