I know that BiggerPockets looks down on guru education programs and seminars that cost thousands of dollars to teach people what they can learn for free on this website. However, I didn't find BiggerPockets until after I was half way through the expensive one-year education and coaching program. One thing my coach told me over and over again was to find investors to partner up with because it didn't matter how much money I personally had to invest, I would eventually run out if I only used my own money. So, over the past few months to a year, I have reached out to several people who are newbies to real estate investing who are looking for a mentor to teach them how to flip houses for profit. I explain to them that I can show them from start to finish a system to learn how to find, fund, rehab, and sell houses for a profit in Arizona. I show them how they will gain experience, credibility, and earn money on the money they invest. But when I tell them that the profit they would make would be 10% APR on their money while it is invested, they become disinterested because they were hoping to make more on their deal. When I see a newbie who wants to partner up and learn how to flip a house for profit and expects to make more on a first deal I think to myself, " Let me get this straight, I spent 75k on a real estate education program which I will never get back and which gave me education but didn't supply me with experience or credibility (having done a profitable deal) and I am offering this to you, plus you get your money back, and you are unsatisfied because it isn't as much as you wanted it to be?" Hummm... I don't know of any education program, college, or institution, that you pay to go to that will teach you a skill to earn lots of money that will then give you your money back plus interest at the end of it. Is there something wrong with my thinking, that someone would be glad to find a mentor to hold their hand through the whole process, and show them a detailed system of how to make money flipping a house, where they would gain experience, credibility, and money and that they should be pleased with that? Or is it that many newbies read posts on success stories of first flips where people made 30 or 40 grand on their first flip and they believe that they should be able to do that also without doing it all on their own? Is it just me, or does it seem some newbies feel entitlement towards earning half of the profits when they come in with a quarter or less of the money for the deal and have no experience? I would appreciate any thoughts. And don't be shy to correct my thinking.

@Shiloh Lundahl No offense Shiloh, but it sounds like you were the sucker that paid $75k on REI education (when you could've gotten it for free on BP or WORKING for a mentor) and need to persuade inexperienced newbies to partner with you to be successful! They're not being "Entitled", they're being wise! I wouldn't fall for your spiel either! ;) What you may want to consider doing is just finding good deals and persuading SEASONED investors to partner with you. If you have the experience and credibility, they will partner with you...simple! Good luck warrior...anytime you can learn something new you're on the right track! ;)

As a newbie, exactly that. As well as not trusting that you're honest. People claim they're making boatloads of money and have retired but keep investing because they like it. Then they claim they're all about giving back to the community and helping others out. Then they ask you for money to learn more. Screw that. As a programmer, we write a lot of software that is given away for free to improve everyone and everything. There is likely more freely developed software powering this website than paid software and that's excluding the free browser you're using to view it. If it was true that you have enough money and were sincere in giving back to the community, then you'd write up your education plan or make a video of it once, perhaps have the first round of people pay for it to cover the cost of creating it, then you would release the entire thing publicly for free. But most people don't do that, so we have to wonder if you're really earning the money you say you are or are you just trying to take money from us because you're system isn't that good. If you have enough money, why are you asking for more? If you want to help people out out of the goodness of your heart, why are you asking to be paid? If we aren't to believe the stores of 40K easy flips, why should we believe the stories of an educational program? I'm seeing people saying one thing then asking for something else, so of course I'm not going to give them my time and money. You want to prove that your educational system is worth it? Put any payments into an escow account and offer a full refund if they don't earn equal to or more than the advertised amount in a specific amount of time. Front all the money for their first project, because you know it's going to make money so why wouldn't you want to increase your income. Your system works doesn't it?

@Shiloh Lundahl What program runs $75,000 so we can avoid it?

Thanks so much for your feedback @Bevla Reeves. I absolutely agree, there is a ton of information that I could have learned had I have known about BiggerPockets before I paid for the year-long real estate training. Actually, it was through the program that I was introduced to BiggerPockets by another program participant. And, although I think it is true that a lot of people who spend tens of thousands of dollars on a real estate education program could have learned the information for a lot less elsewhere, I did get a ton out of the training. Mostly through Contacts and connecting with really successful investors. I wish that I had known about Marty Boardman or others that could have mentored me in Arizona before I did the training, but I didn't. The year before the training I made 17k on 3 flips. The year of the training I made 95k on 6 flips and one seller finance deal and acquired 3 duplexes and 1 SFR in Indianapolis and I learned how to build a system. So, for me the training was worth it, but for others it may not be. With our system and our resources we can handle up to 6 flips at a time. Partnering with others could help us increase that to 8. I don't really need to partner with others but I am a teacher at heart and I really enjoy helping others become successful and reaching their goals (thus my daytime career as a child and family therapist). So that is why I want to work with newbies and give them something that I wish that I had had when I began. I just don't like it when people just expect to get something for nothing. That is what this post is about.

Thank you @Douglas Krofcheck for your response. I totally agree with you that it is hard to trust people, especially if you have been taken advantage of in the past or have experienced a trauma around people not being honest. I think that I may not have been very clear in my earlier post and you may think that I am selling an educational program. Let me try to be more clear about what I mean by partnering up with newbies looking to invest. It starts with finding a property that has at least 20k of profit in the deal when all is said and done. Then I secure a hard money lender on the deal and I get a bid for the repairs from one of our contractors that we work with. Then I ask if anyone wants to partner up on the deal by putting in 10% of the down to the title company and paying the rehab costs directly to the contractor (half upfront and half at the end). The investor gets a deed of trust on the property and a promissory note at 10% APR while their money is invested. The deal usually lasts 3-6 months and then the investor gets their money back with the interest upon close from the title company at the sale of the property. When the investor partners with us we show them how to flip the property from start to finish. How we found the property, how we funded the property, how we rehabbed and sold the property. They get to meet everyone we work with from our contractors to our insurance company, our pool man to our landscapers. Why we chose the particular design style, the staging company we use, etc. The investor gets an educational experience by seeing everything that went into the project and they gain a ton of contacts that they can use on their projects and they can duplicate the system that they just saw. Plus they gain credibility by having done a successful deal. They can present the before and after pictures to show others (like hard money lenders or banks or private investors) a deal that they have done to help them access capital for their projects. Additionally, they get their money back and the interest accrued at the end. The benefit that I get out of doing this is that I have less money into the deals which allows us to do more deals at the same time. The benefit that the newbie investor gets out of this as I mentioned before is experience, credibility, and money (and they get to hang out with our team members who are pretty cool). We only plan on partnering up with the new investor through a deal or two until they feel comfortable and are ready to do it themselves. I hope this clears up any misperceptions of what we are doing and why we are doing it. Again, thank you for your comments and I wish you well as you begin your real estate investing journey.

@Shiloh Lundahl "Or is it that many newbies read posts on success stories of first flips where people made 30 or 40 grand on their first flip and they believe that they should be able to do that also without doing it all on their own?" Bingo. Most gurus and other investors tell newly minted investors to just "jump in with both feet" as if this is just a pool party. Therefore, most new investors naturally think, well, how hard can it be. Many find out just how hard it is once they lose what little money they have. Also, I've literally seen wannabe gurus advertising their mentoring to new investors when the "mentor" has only done one or two deals and knows nothing about the intricacies of this business. When there are no legal standards, anyone can be a guru...and they often try to pass themselves off as such. Everyone and their half brother is trying to sell to the newbie investor...newbie's are simply being over-sold. Heck, I've seen folks advertising real estate coaching on Fivver for $5.00! It's only natural that people who have no business experience, knowledge or capacity to understand what it takes to succeed in any entrepreneurial endeavor, and are not really following a long-time passion of real estate investing, will believe they can do this easily and quickly without any assistance. And since so many coaches are really not coaches, but are instead marketers, I can't really blame the newbie...they simply don't know what they don't know. The proof is always in the pudding...and now days proof of one's success is never asked for or offered, hence the reason newbies fail within 90 days and move on to the next distraction (business endeavor) in their life.

Thanks @Alex Cordero. With an expectation that you won't make a lot on your first deal but that you can learn a lot, I think better rehabbers will be more willing to teach you and you will learn a ton. I set up a lunch appointment with @Marty Boardman in Arizona who did the first podcast. He was gracious enough to be willing to meet with me. Anyway, he said if someone wants to do a deal with him then they need to bring him a deal or money for a deal. That made sense to me. He already has a system that works for him and he doesn't need my help to be successful. But if I wanted to learn then I would have to bring something to the table. Truthfully it was really helpful sitting down with him and he was complementing to what we are doing in real estate. After meeting with him I tightened up our system and it has been a lot better since. So thanks Marty. Again, a great example of what you can learn from an experienced flipper.

Account Closed "It's not personal. It's just business." I love that part of the movie You Got Mail. I appreciate the feedback. I would say that I'm not so much offended as I am frustrated - probably from my unmet expectations. Because I wish I had had someone to hold my hand along the way when I started and offer to me what I am offering to others, I expect that others would be excited and grateful for the opportunity. So in a way I am doing the same thing. I am expecting something and getting somewhat frustrated with the results just like people who expect something for nothing (or very little) get frustrated when they don't get what they want. Thanks for your insight. And, by the way, if I have come across as condescending to anyone, I would like to sincerely apologize.

Newbies: Eager to learn or Entitled?

William BrownPro Member

Wholesaler · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2016 · 276 posts · 181 votes

9y

@Anthony Gayden

You are absolutely right. I sometimes forget that not everyone wants to run a billion dollar business and what they have works perfectly for them. My apologies, and I wish you the best in your continuing endeavors!

Newbies: Eager to learn or Entitled?

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