Can I require proof a dog is a service/therapy dog?
Lawrenceburg, IN · Member since 2014 · 9 posts · 4 votes
Can I require proof a dog is a service/therapy dog?
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Realtor and Investor · Scottsdale, AZ · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
8yI hate this topic. It makes my blood boil because it is such an abused gray area.
Here is what I know.... the ADA does NOT recognize emotional support animals as service animals and will not certify them. A service animal by their definition, is an animal that is trained (with actions and responses) to function alongside the person it is helping, not just be a fuzzy friend to cuddle.
Fair Housing extends this to include emotional support animals. However, there are still requirements including a letter from a mental health care professional. So, it can't just be a letter from the Tenant's PCP or family dr. It has to be a letter from a MENTAL HEALTH CARE PROVIDER.
My guess is that you can draw red flags if the letter is NOT local (maybe online), and not from a mental healthcare professional....then it isn't legit.
FYI, I have never heard of a pit bull who was certified as a service animal. German shepards all day long (which area also on the breed list), but not 1 pit.
IF you are able to validate the service animal, it is NOT considered a pet, and you have to allow for it, and CANNOT charge pet rent or collect a pet fee/deposit.
31 Replies
- 8yMike CumbieBusiness MemberREALTOR® · Brockport, NY · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
DISCLAIMER: I am not a lawyer and this in no way constitutes legal advice. Simply the ramblings of a dolt on the internet. I am also unfamiliar with laws in your specific area which may be different. use at own risk.
Hi @Amy Mueller It is really a hard line to draw. The law (per my limited/basic understanding of such big complex issues) limits what you can ask or require of an applicant.
This person is asking for an exemption to your policies and the law says you have to make "Reasonable accommodations for people with disabilities". So I would contact 3 other insurance agencies and see if I could get insurance and at what cost. Armed with that information you are able to make an informed decision on what is "reasonable". You are not required to automatically accept an emotional support animal (I am guessing that is what you are dealing with here). You are required to at the tenants own cost allow "reasonable accommodation". It sounds like you allow any dogs, but your insurance limits it, so I would spend an hour researching how to allow it and at what cost.
Best of luck!
- Real Estate Agent · Washington, D.C. · Member since 2012 · 17k+ posts · 30k+ votes8y
The inability to get insurance on a breed is of no consequence to the Fair Housing Act. (At least in my market) You are in a more red leaning state which may have case law that is more landlord friendly
If the dog is an Emotional Support Animal you can request a doctors note, or a prescription for the dog. Any supplying of a certification of the dog is fake as there is no legitimate certification or registration for either ESA's or service animals.
One thing I wonder as I do see these posts a lot, is I wonder if people are using the proper insurance policies. None of my investment property policies have I ever been asked if a tenant has a dog, while my owner occupant policy certainly does. So I wonder is that a Maryland thing, or is everyone else on these boards accidentally using an owner occupant policy to insure their investment properties.
Maryland a few years ago did have a law that the landlord was liable for liability issues caused by pitbull breeds, but that was struck down by the court system shifting liability back to the tenants.
District Invest Group545 Reviews - Investor · Marion, IA · Member since 2010 · 177 posts · 117 votes8yWhat is to stop somebody from bringing in any type or size of animal under the guise of an ESA? The rules are so vague why couldn't a landlord define his own "reasonable" accommodation guidelines? For example no dangerous breeds greater than 30 lbs.
- Anderson, SC · Member since 2016 · 91 posts · 40 votes8yThe ADA specifications for service dogs are very specific in that the animal must help with a physical disability and perform a task such as opening a door or picking something up. Emotional assistance is not recognized under ADA guidelines. I would check their website out for specific qualifications. AND YES you can ask what action the animal performs to assist with a disability.
- Lawrenceburg, IN · Member since 2014 · 9 posts · 4 votes8y
Thanks for the replies!
I was able to deny her application though based on multiple other issues.
I have never had my insurance ask about tenant's having a dog either. I have contacted my insurance though to clarify liability coverage for my landlord policy. They basically said the 3 breeds they exclude, if something were to happen, they would not provide an attorney.
- Real Estate Broker · Naples, FL · Member since 2013 · 9k+ posts · 6k+ votes8y
If a particular breed is denied by a landlord's insurance company, that landlord may elect to buy different insurance AND pass on additional costs for the different insurance.
- Investor · Princeton, TX · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes8y
@Russell Brazil To me the fair housing issues and the ADA issues seem to be more of a potential liability than a dog being on the property.
- Realtor and Investor · Scottsdale, AZ · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes8y
I hate this topic. It makes my blood boil because it is such an abused gray area.
Here is what I know.... the ADA does NOT recognize emotional support animals as service animals and will not certify them. A service animal by their definition, is an animal that is trained (with actions and responses) to function alongside the person it is helping, not just be a fuzzy friend to cuddle.
Fair Housing extends this to include emotional support animals. However, there are still requirements including a letter from a mental health care professional. So, it can't just be a letter from the Tenant's PCP or family dr. It has to be a letter from a MENTAL HEALTH CARE PROVIDER.
My guess is that you can draw red flags if the letter is NOT local (maybe online), and not from a mental healthcare professional....then it isn't legit.
FYI, I have never heard of a pit bull who was certified as a service animal. German shepards all day long (which area also on the breed list), but not 1 pit.
IF you are able to validate the service animal, it is NOT considered a pet, and you have to allow for it, and CANNOT charge pet rent or collect a pet fee/deposit.
- 8yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
@Amy Mueller I would never knowingly let someone rent a home from me that had a pit.. they could turn me in sue me I could care less.. just aint going to happen.. I have seen to many sweet pits turn and bite and when they do its major damage usually to a child..
of all the dogs I have owned over the years my biggest bitter is our Chiuahua CUJO he was a terror ( rest in peace ).. followed by my golden.. my shepard bite once but that was an intruder who came in uninvited then ran out when he saw the dog and got bit in the @$$ .. Tessa did what she was suppose to do serve and protect.
but don't do as I do or say.. as I can self insure against tenants
- Realtor and Investor · Scottsdale, AZ · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes8y
Originally posted by @John Thedford:
If a particular breed is denied by a landlord's insurance company, that landlord may elect to buy different insurance AND pass on additional costs for the different insurance.
Ummm...what? Says who? I would love to know your source of info on this statement.
In fact, the Fair Housing laws call for landlords to make "reasonable accomodation". This doesn't include charging them for an increase of insurance. A Landlord could require the Tenant to have liability insurance for their dog. However, again, if it is a service animal, it is not considered a pet.
- Real Estate Broker · Naples, FL · Member since 2013 · 9k+ posts · 6k+ votes8y
Originally posted by @Cara Lonsdale:
Originally posted by @John Thedford:
If a particular breed is denied by a landlord's insurance company, that landlord may elect to buy different insurance AND pass on additional costs for the different insurance.
Ummm...what? Says who? I would love to know your source of info on this statement.
In fact, the Fair Housing laws call for landlords to make "reasonable accomodation". This doesn't include charging them for an increase of insurance. A Landlord could require the Tenant to have liability insurance for their dog. However, again, if it is a service animal, it is not considered a pet.
That info was presented by an attorney speaking at our REIA. They did stress that only the increased amount could be passed on..not the cost of the entire policy. Personally, I haven't had anyone apply with a service animal to this point even though I have 13 SFR and been investing since 2012.
- Realtor and Investor · Scottsdale, AZ · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes8y
Originally posted by @John Thedford:
Originally posted by @Cara Lonsdale:
Originally posted by @John Thedford:
If a particular breed is denied by a landlord's insurance company, that landlord may elect to buy different insurance AND pass on additional costs for the different insurance.
Ummm...what? Says who? I would love to know your source of info on this statement.
In fact, the Fair Housing laws call for landlords to make "reasonable accomodation". This doesn't include charging them for an increase of insurance. A Landlord could require the Tenant to have liability insurance for their dog. However, again, if it is a service animal, it is not considered a pet.
That info was presented by an attorney speaking at our REIA. They did stress that only the increased amount could be passed on..not the cost of the entire policy. Personally, I haven't had anyone apply with a service animal to this point even though I have 13 SFR and been investing since 2012.
Interesting. I have never heard such advice. It seems to contradict the Fair housing laws for reasonable accommodation, but maybe in Florida they have different ways of doing things.
- Real Estate Broker · Naples, FL · Member since 2013 · 9k+ posts · 6k+ votes8y
Originally posted by @Cara Lonsdale:
Originally posted by @John Thedford:
Originally posted by @Cara Lonsdale:
Originally posted by @John Thedford:
If a particular breed is denied by a landlord's insurance company, that landlord may elect to buy different insurance AND pass on additional costs for the different insurance.
Ummm...what? Says who? I would love to know your source of info on this statement.
In fact, the Fair Housing laws call for landlords to make "reasonable accomodation". This doesn't include charging them for an increase of insurance. A Landlord could require the Tenant to have liability insurance for their dog. However, again, if it is a service animal, it is not considered a pet.
That info was presented by an attorney speaking at our REIA. They did stress that only the increased amount could be passed on..not the cost of the entire policy. Personally, I haven't had anyone apply with a service animal to this point even though I have 13 SFR and been investing since 2012.
Interesting. I have never heard such advice. It seems to contradict the Fair housing laws for reasonable accommodation, but maybe in Florida they have different ways of doing things.
The advice is only as good as the attorney however it seems to make sense to me. You are not unlawfully denying the tenancy and you are not unlawfully charging increase rents.
- Realtor and Investor · Scottsdale, AZ · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes8y
Originally posted by @John Thedford:
Originally posted by @Cara Lonsdale:
Originally posted by @John Thedford:
Originally posted by @Cara Lonsdale:
Originally posted by @John Thedford:
If a particular breed is denied by a landlord's insurance company, that landlord may elect to buy different insurance AND pass on additional costs for the different insurance.
Ummm...what? Says who? I would love to know your source of info on this statement.
In fact, the Fair Housing laws call for landlords to make "reasonable accomodation". This doesn't include charging them for an increase of insurance. A Landlord could require the Tenant to have liability insurance for their dog. However, again, if it is a service animal, it is not considered a pet.
That info was presented by an attorney speaking at our REIA. They did stress that only the increased amount could be passed on..not the cost of the entire policy. Personally, I haven't had anyone apply with a service animal to this point even though I have 13 SFR and been investing since 2012.
Interesting. I have never heard such advice. It seems to contradict the Fair housing laws for reasonable accommodation, but maybe in Florida they have different ways of doing things.
The advice is only as good as the attorney however it seems to make sense to me. You are not unlawfully denying the tenancy and you are not unlawfully charging increase rents.
But you ARE potentially charging extra for someone who has a diability, which happens to be a protected class. I just don't think that will bode well in a court of law.
- Real Estate Agent · Washington, D.C. · Member since 2012 · 17k+ posts · 30k+ votes8y
There is no certification for a service dog that come from a legitimate source. None. Zero. Zilch. Breed does not matter, and HUD's guidance specifically addresses concerns about dangerous breeds and says they do not apply to ADA or FHA.
Also HUD specifically gives guidance that does not limit it to only a mental health professional...
Any type of physician can provide a letter or RX for the animal per HUD. I would also caution any landlord that would deny a tenant with a legitimate service animal or ESA who has been prescribed by another type of healthcare professional not specifically named in the HUD guidance memo such as an occupational therapist or physical therapist. Occupational Therapists often have a treatment plan which involves therapy animals, and I would have very little doubt that the courts and regulating agencies would side against a landlord on reasonable accommodation based on an OT not specifically being mentioned in the guidance memo.
District Invest Group545 Reviews - Real Estate Broker · Naples, FL · Member since 2013 · 9k+ posts · 6k+ votes8y
Originally posted by @Cara Lonsdale:
Originally posted by @John Thedford:
Originally posted by @Cara Lonsdale:
Originally posted by @John Thedford:
Originally posted by @Cara Lonsdale:
Originally posted by @John Thedford:
If a particular breed is denied by a landlord's insurance company, that landlord may elect to buy different insurance AND pass on additional costs for the different insurance.
Ummm...what? Says who? I would love to know your source of info on this statement.
In fact, the Fair Housing laws call for landlords to make "reasonable accomodation". This doesn't include charging them for an increase of insurance. A Landlord could require the Tenant to have liability insurance for their dog. However, again, if it is a service animal, it is not considered a pet.
That info was presented by an attorney speaking at our REIA. They did stress that only the increased amount could be passed on..not the cost of the entire policy. Personally, I haven't had anyone apply with a service animal to this point even though I have 13 SFR and been investing since 2012.
Interesting. I have never heard such advice. It seems to contradict the Fair housing laws for reasonable accommodation, but maybe in Florida they have different ways of doing things.
The advice is only as good as the attorney however it seems to make sense to me. You are not unlawfully denying the tenancy and you are not unlawfully charging increase rents.
But you ARE potentially charging extra for someone who has a diability, which happens to be a protected class. I just don't think that will bode well in a court of law.
It may or may not. As I stated, the info was provided by a so called "expert" local attorney. I haven't researched this further. Ask two different attorneys the same question and you may get two different answers.
- Real Estate Agent · Virginia Beach, VA · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes8y
Originally posted by @Cara Lonsdale:
...FYI, I have never heard of a pit bull who was certified as a service animal. German shepards all day long (which area also on the breed list), but not 1 pit.
IF you are able to validate the service animal, it is NOT considered a pet, and you have to allow for it, and CANNOT charge pet rent or collect a pet fee/deposit.
When I lived in MD, this case made the news, a judge returning a pit bull service animal to its owner even though the county had a ban on pit bulls....
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/07/prince-g...
So there was at least one pit bull service dog. Be careful about denying ESA, no matter what it is, or service dog, no matter what breed, as you can get yourself in very deep very quickly. Not a lawyer, no legal advice, but my understanding is that you, the landlord, must prove it would be a unreasonable burden, so if your insurance won't cover specific breeds, you can document that, but you'd also have to document that you tried other companies and, if you found one that wasn't egregiously more, you would have to accommodate, not pass on the fees. That's why it's so difficult to figure out, as each case is decided individually based on what a judge feels is reasonable if the prospective tenant wants to push their case. With the online certficiations currently so easy to get, where a doctor who's never seen you has you fill out an online questionnaire and for $70 will send you the letter or prescription or whatever, it's too easy for tenants to avoid pet fees so many more are doing it.
I have raised my overall refundable security deposit for all tenants, closer to the max allowed in the states where I have rentals, and I still ask for $400 more in refundable deposit for pet, not ESA or service dog as that is not allowed. I do not charge any extra pet rent or nonrefundable pet fees, only refundable deposits, as I feel it provides an incentive to care for unit, the possibility to have their full deposit returned and helps eliminate the reason many go online to get the certification in the first place -- avoiding the fees.
What's funny is as I'm writing this, an ad popped up, "Do you qualify for an emotional support animal?" It's getting ridiculous.
- Realtor and Investor · Scottsdale, AZ · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes8y
Originally posted by @Lynn McGeein:
Originally posted by @Cara Lonsdale:
...FYI, I have never heard of a pit bull who was certified as a service animal. German shepards all day long (which area also on the breed list), but not 1 pit.
IF you are able to validate the service animal, it is NOT considered a pet, and you have to allow for it, and CANNOT charge pet rent or collect a pet fee/deposit.
When I lived in MD, this case made the news, a judge returning a pit bull service animal to its owner even though the county had a ban on pit bulls....
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/07/prince-g...
So there was at least one pit bull service dog. Be careful about denying ESA, no matter what it is, or service dog, no matter what breed, as you can get yourself in very deep very quickly. Not a lawyer, no legal advice, but my understanding is that you, the landlord, must prove it would be a unreasonable burden, so if your insurance won't cover specific breeds, you can document that, but you'd also have to document that you tried other companies and, if you found one that wasn't egregiously more, you would have to accommodate, not pass on the fees. That's why it's so difficult to figure out, as each case is decided individually based on what a judge feels is reasonable if the prospective tenant wants to push their case. With the online certficiations currently so easy to get, where a doctor who's never seen you has you fill out an online questionnaire and for $70 will send you the letter or prescription or whatever, it's too easy for tenants to avoid pet fees so many more are doing it.
I have raised my overall refundable security deposit for all tenants, closer to the max allowed in the states where I have rentals, and I still ask for $400 more in refundable deposit for pet, not ESA or service dog as that is not allowed. I do not charge any extra pet rent or nonrefundable pet fees, only refundable deposits, as I feel it provides an incentive to care for unit, the possibility to have their full deposit returned and helps eliminate the reason many go online to get the certification in the first place -- avoiding the fees.
What's funny is as I'm writing this, an ad popped up, "Do you qualify for an emotional support animal?" It's getting ridiculous.
This is what I was trying to tell @John Thedford about passing along the insurance fee overage. It can get you in trouble. Better to justify a case for unreasonable accommodation.
And regarding the pit, I would argue that the pit would bring more potential harm than good. Surely the overage for insurance would be an unreasonable burden to the landlord as it would be hard to find an insurer at all, let alone at a higher cost.
Btw, I never said I deny service animals, regardless of their breed. If it is a legit service animal with proper certification, it has earned the right to be there. Where I draw skeptical pause is when someone shows up with their pit and an online esa letter. It's time to push back a little then.
- 8yMike CumbieBusiness MemberREALTOR® · Brockport, NY · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
By no means a legal professional and just asking out of morbid curiosity:
If a person needs a wheelchair ramp and you consider it a reasonable accommodation, they are responsible for the cost and returning the unit to it's original condition. If they need a specific type of tub, they are responsible for the charges and returning the unit to where it was upon move in. Same with wider door frames, lowered appliances etc. If they require an ESA and the insurance is raised to accommodate that, why can it not be passed on to the tenant?
I find it odd that I can require a tenant to put in their own wheelchair ramp, but have to eat the cost of insurance for an ESA.
- 8yMike CumbieBusiness MemberREALTOR® · Brockport, NY · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
I agree, we had a poster recently who said the potential renter wanted to leave the dog there throughout the day while they were at work. It was a renting a room situation. Not sure how part of "reasonable accommodation" is babysitting a dog while the owner works. I would believe one of the most stressful times would be at work, so that is when you would need it the most.
- 8yTom GimerBusiness MemberDMV · Member since 2017 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
Originally posted by @Mike Cumbie:
I agree, we had a poster recently who said the potential renter wanted to leave the dog there throughout the day while they were at work. It was a renting a room situation. Not sure how part of "reasonable accommodation" is babysitting a dog while the owner works. I would believe one of the most stressful times would be at work, so that is when you would need it the most.
Give it time. There are so many more people abusing this than benefiting from it the whole thing is destined to implode.
I see some states are starting to pass laws regarding ESA fraud.
Gimer Law516 Reviews - Real Estate Broker · Naples, FL · Member since 2013 · 9k+ posts · 6k+ votes8y
Sure the laws do NOT discriminate on breed. However, they do NOT require a landlord to lose money as in the example of having to make improvements themselves. As to the insurance, if the landlord has to pay an extra $200 per year, it does seem reasonable that the information provided by the local attorney COULD BE valid. IF passed on, that money does not increase the landlords profit in any manner. Furthermore, the potential tenant IS being provided the housing. Some states do require landlord to lose money (as in rent control) and not being able to evict because of weather, etc.
- Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes8y
@Amy Mueller fair housing has been challenged on this issue and there is legal precedence that if accepting the animal presents an undue financial burden on the landlord, they can reject the animal. There is nothing more financially horrible than being dropped by insurance, which will lead to your loan being called. Maybe you can find risk insurance, but as a landlord, I am not going to get special insurance from a different carrier to accommodate a tenant.
There have been multiple stories in the news over the last month about pit bulls turning on their owners or children and killing them. Every story says, the animal had no history of problems and was very well behaved. The point is that every pit bull has the strength to do major harm. It just takes one bad day.
I would consider whether this applicant meets your general screening criteria. If you have to deny them for other reasons, then the pit bull is irrelevant.
I would tell them no over the phone and if they tried to call me back, I would block their phone number. Send nothing in writing.
- Realtor and Investor · Scottsdale, AZ · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes8y
Originally posted by @John Thedford:
Sure the laws do NOT discriminate on breed. However, they do NOT require a landlord to lose money as in the example of having to make improvements themselves. As to the insurance, if the landlord has to pay an extra $200 per year, it does seem reasonable that the information provided by the local attorney COULD BE valid. IF passed on, that money does not increase the landlords profit in any manner. Furthermore, the potential tenant IS being provided the housing. Some states do require landlord to lose money (as in rent control) and not being able to evict because of weather, etc.
Actually they CAN. That's what stinks about it, unfortunately! However, reasonable accommodation can include a higher insurance rate.
I am not saying I agree with it, but I am telling you that if you pass along an overage expense to a protected class, that will scream discrimination to a judge, regardless of your intent.
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