Wilsonville, Oregon Real Estate Forum

98 Replies

To be sure, I have no intent on becoming a trainer/guru in the note industry. From time-to-time, I do give group presentations as an intro into the business, with that intent to illustrate the advantages of being a passive investor. There are a few good educators out there, and they are all easy to find. I'm happy to connect with anyone that wants to get a brief high-level overview of the business. The decision someone will need to make is would they prefer to be active, like myself, or passive, like my investors.

@Cody Cox I’m not asking you to. However this is a professional site for all level of investors and part of the point of this site in information and education for everyone. Me as a lawyer I pass along bits all day long. If I were to want to bring a investor to talk to you eh wants to invest in notes, and your not receptive why should I have you in my network? I created this forum for all levels of investors and expect nobody to take anybody under their wings. And theirs no such thing as a guru. If you choose to be on this forum then freely partake. But please don’t say hey guys this is what I do, but not talk about and educate appropriately. I don’t give free legal advice, but I do good heartedly help people get to the right mindset and direction.

When you reply stand-offish then for those who are not as educated or want to ask a question even basic and participate then you scare them away and nothing happens. That is not the point of this.

Listening to great podcast #257 at gym on you’re market being to expensive, team building and investing in other states. I have not got the book yet, but the podcast is great. Listen to it and #222

Spinning off of podcast 257. I think its a great discussion on #teambuilding. Had some free time in the gym today to listen to a few podcasts. I really like what was said by @david greene A lot is said about finding your deal. get a deal, deal, deal deal. But, another way to go about is to build a team. Get a good team in palace that will work for you and they will bring you deals. use the BP search for lenders in your area, or even out of your area that you would like to invest in. Then connect with those lenders and talk to them. Ask them questions, then have the lender you like refer an investor focused agent. That agent then will know good General Contractors who work with investors and deliver good products on budget, and will also know good property managers. Really nail down getting your team (Lenders, Agents, General Contractor, Property Manager, Attorney, and CPA) put together, and maker sure they all have experience working with investors. Each one should be involved in your project. Your agent should be getting you deals and brining them to you since they know the areas and markets better then you ever will. You're agent will need to work with your lenders and GC, the property manager will need to be on the project to work with the GC to make sure the property is repaired to your standard. Once you have the team and system in place, its passive for you. You team should all be on the asme page and provide checks and balances with each other. You're agent and GC should not be far off when talking numbers and if they are they better have a good reason why their is a difference of they will be replaced. "BuildyourTeam 

@Brian Bradley Sorry, but that wasn't what I was trying to say. Sorry if it came across that way. I want to contribute. And this forum is excellent. I was attempting (not very well) to say I'm not a training guy for notes. But a contributor, oh absolutely.  Sorry for the mis-direction. 

@Brian Bradley   If you have not been I would recommend you attend a rarebird meeting there are many like minded folks there.. and if you have a certain area of real estate law.. I suspect you may get the guys who run it to let you make a presentation that would further your interest in this forum with local folks

For instance I gave a presentation on what to look out for when you go out of state.. Having been in that space for 20 years LOL.. I have more than a passing knowledge of many markets..

I have not listened to 257 although I suspect from your comments much of what is talked about is a little tougher to do in practice.. and works if your a bigger player like the guy probably making the presentation.. for one off or starter investors pretty hard to really build a team like what your talking about.. not enough money involved to garner the loyalty and checks and balances your talking about.

I actucally wrote an e book for foreign investors on how not to get screwed in US rental properties.. I gave it away for years for free on BP.. to anyone who asked for it.. just asked for a small donation to the charity of their choice..

@Brian Bradley and on the note subject you have two schools you have the NPN guys like what cody is talking about.. and you have someone like me who only wants performing..

the investor in those two are very different in philosophy the performing note buyer/investor is generally looking for mail box money and to anchor their portfolio with solid secure stable notes.

the NPN is looking for aggressive growth and willing to take the lumps and bumps along the road to get there.. as @Cody Cox mentioned there are many how to trainers out there all focusing on NPN.. and BP is well represented with those that have NPN funds..

However many are not as forthright as Cody when Cody says about 30% reperfrom.. many that sell this stuff make it sound like most will.. and then the next thing they know they get 6 payments and sell them as performing notes to the next guy down the line that has limited experience in the space. 

Myself I prefer performing and work extensively in that space.. and almost 100% of my clients are solo 401k and sepp IRA.. they love those.. but my folks are not risk takers.. also what I like is one note one investor.. not pooling.. and since its not pooled or PPM no acredidation issues.. Allow those state of Oregon does not like them we can't sell our notes to folks that reside here. So we sell a lot to those in Wa. and our offices are in the deep south..

Good points @Jay Hinrichs and the investor in 222 was a police officer when he started-out in SF (Bay Area). He invested in FL since SF was way out of his price range and had no deals. So he had to go about RE Investing a different route. He created a great team that he could rely on. He did not have deep pockets as a police officer, and no connections since he did not live in FL, but CA (SF Bay Area). 

I do think life as an investor would be a lot easier if you had deals. But, that is not always the case. So if you don't have deals, and you want to invest and keep moving forward, new guys will have to go about it different ways, like more experienced guys, and then just give a larger piece of the pie to their team members etc until they have more experience, skin in the game, reputation, and equity to bring to the table. 

And the meet ups are a great idea. I plan to set one up in mid January in Wilsonville, and have joined meet up, RareBirds, and NWREI Association. 

I was IM with one of my clients over the holiday. He is restructuring to an LLC after talking to his CPA. What’s to invest in 2-3 properties a year now. Not the point of where I’m going.

We started chatting about where to invest. So I was talking to some investing agents I know and got a variety of opinions, which I then thought this should be opened up in this forum to discuss.

Some where saying nowhere ... invest in a different state the PNW is to expensive, some Bend/Sisters, some Salem. Where I have been tracking and hearing most experienced investors going NOW in present time 2017 2018 in and around Oregon is:

(Vancouver WA, Canby, Salem, willamette valley corridor, Bend/Sister).

Most the investors I have been talking are looking for fix n flips, fix n holds, single and multi family properties up to the size of 3-15 buildings. You’re average investor.

Hey guys. thanks for everybody who is jumping in and contributing. Especially @jay 

@Jay Hinrichs and @Cody Cox . For the newbies don't hesitate to just jump in and start contributing and asking questions. If you have a thought, write it, if you have a question ask, an opinion state it. Nothing is to big our small. The more we start getting involved the more we learn from each other. I have been starting to bring other questions I come across in other forums into this one. If I like a topic or a podcast and thing we can benefit from it I share it. so if you like the forum, share it with your friends. Don't let paralysis stop you from contributing. And for those who have. Keep it up. Once a few more people join the conversation I will set up a meet up. @RJ Emmett @Erin Burton @Daniel S McNabb

One important thing I have noticed on and off in other forums that I think MUST be addressed. Please DO NOT write about ANY Legal Matter where you think you can suffer a criminal penalty (fine, misdemeanor, felony, infraction, etc). And just because you are dealing with Real Estate does not mean criminal matters does not exists. IRS, Immigration, just some real basic areas off the top of my head where you can get in real trouble. 

Remember, this is a PUBLIC FORUM. You have no attorney client privilege. Do not write about any facts on any public forum anywhere on line besides simply saying, Hey Brian, this is the general area of concern, do you know of an attorney to point in my direction. Remember, anything you say will be used against you. I once worked for the prosecutors way back in the day and was very creative about finding admission. I would subpoena social media accounts and tags etc because I know its human nature now days to want to share anything and everything. So please always think before you click send or reply. Other wise, keep posting. 

An additional great recourse for legal questions not within the scope of this website is avvo.com where lawyers join and give general legal opinion on topics posed just like on biggerpockets. 

@Brian Bradley   one of the all time greats of what not to write... was some guy back east talking about how he paid off fellow bidders at courthouse steps.. LOL... as you know that is a no no.

I'm in for the meet up. Recent relocate from Seattle and trying to get my bearings on the greater local market. Starting to look at opportunities in the valley to Salem and the Bend/Sisters area. Commercial and industrial are my preferred but any good ROI is always considered. It would be great to meet some locals. Thanks for getting this forum running.

Is anyone looking seriously at Salem, or already invested there? You see seemingly good deals there, even in loopnet. Seems like it would be better to to to Salem than further out of state, except of course if there were other tax reasons to leave Oregon.

Hello @Evan Bellingar I like the Salem area for investments and a field area. For Salem I would really be area selective. From the Salem investors I have been talking with, the strategy they have been using is to purchase duplexes + and to really selectively look for properties with good deals. So take your time and do your research. All their properties are rented and stay rented. It will be easy to fall into the trap of inflated prices and bidding wars due to competition so have your number and stay strong. @Nat Borchers and @ Janel Page have been very successful investing in the Salem area. 

Just curious if anyone here has any AirBnB rentals in Wilsonville or nearby areas. Happy to hear any thoughts people have on this topic as well.

@Erin Burton I don’t think Airbnb in Wilsonville is the right market. I’ve used them all throughout the world. What you need is high demand of tourism in that area for a successful short rental Airbnb, which does not define Wilsonville OR our surrounding suburbs. We are a suburb with not many tourist spots or shops etc.

I would look more downtown and near tourist traps. Places people would fly to Portland to see and eat. Then you would increase your chance of booking. As well as bring near a convention center, shops, food, and good views, public transit. I’ve staid in great ones in Rome, London, Chicago, Miami, Seattle etc all within reasonable walking distance to fun attractions.

What do you guys think of the Moreys Landing area of Wilsonville vs Villebois? Thinking of upgrading our current home to the Moreys Landing side. 

Continuing our discussion on self directed retirement accounts to invest in real estate. I would say talk to a specialist CPA that deals with such sepp accounts and self directed accounts. You have lots of CPA who specialize in many different areas just like lawyers and doctors. If you are hurt in an accident, you don't go to a real estate attorney for advice, you would go to a personal injury lawyer. If you want ta divorce you don't go to a personal injury lawyer. Just like if you need brain surgery you get the referral to go the brain surgeon not the general doctor or orthopedist. Yes, they are all smart and generally knowledgeable, but outside their scope of practice I would take their opinion with a grain of salt and seek more information before deciding. 

Your general business and personal CPA will not be able to properly advise you on self directed accounts and REI. My case in point. I have an amazing CPA for business in my law practice and personal tax's. I posed the self directed account for investing in REI. He pushed back saying he did not like the ideas and it was to risky and preferred my money sitting in my prior employer 401k's and IRA's to just sit in stocks.

I then reached out to a specialist in sepp accounts and self directed retirement accounts and he explained that the response I got is typical of genera CPA's who do not handle REI and such accounts. They are going to give more conservative advise and if they are not used to or knowledge able about such accounts, then they will not recommend you use them. That makes sense. They won't refer you use an investing mechanism they are not familiar about. But he did not recommend i talk to anybody else and the conversation ended with "I don't think its a good idea since I think you will loose more tax advantages in capital gains."

I then did what most would do with medical issues, and legal help. I went and got a second opinion, this time from a specialist in what I want to do. And got more detailed information and advise so I can make a better informed decision. 

Point being. Know who you are going to for advise and their strengths and weaknesses. My current CPA was the wrong guy to ask. So I had to seek more specific advise from an expert. Don't let one persons opinion stop you. Seek the persons advise who has direct experience and specializes in that specific area. Then you can make the best informed decision. 

Interesting post I came across and article this morning. Should you create a separate LLC for each investment property you own? Talk to your real estate investment CPA, but I say NO. The managing cost alone for each LLC would be so expensive and overkill. Create just one LLC to act as the holding company. Just one total as your investment LLC. That will give you your personal separation. No need for one LLC for each.

@Brian Bradley   that's good advice from an attorney... there are attorneys that sell that idea OF course because they can charge for all these LLCs  they scare the investor with these ideas that the investor usually with minimal exposure anyway ( because they are just getting started and really don't have assets)  into thinking they need this.

you will see occasional posts on BP encouraging this   .. glad you commented on it

also on the IRA @Brian Eastman is our local expert... you will want to talk to him about everything related to self directed IRA  solo K's etc etc

@Jay Hinrichs and @Brian Bradley

I agree. Multiple LLC's get to be so expensive and complex to manage that one very quickly sees diminishing returns. Quality insurance is by far the more important component of owning rental properties or running a real estate development company.

Where I do recommend the use of LLC's for additional segregation in the self-directed plan space is if the IRA or Solo 401(k) will have a diverse portfolio - some of which creates risk exposure such as real estate and some of which does not, such as notes, stocks, etc. In that scenario, it can be beneficial to form a LLC within the plan to hold the real estate and segregate that from the non-risk assets.

Not so much in Oregon, but in other states we see a big push for the series LLC concept. That is likewise a lot of fancy thinking that creates legal complexity and expense, with little proven benefit.

I came across an interesting post the other day that I replied to regarding illegal immigration as tenants and landlords rights. I saw most people could not separate their own politics and personal beliefs out of the question and focus on the law and what to do. But here is a good non-legal advice opinion on the topic.

Immigration status is NOT a protected class. (Race, Color, Religion, National Origin, Religion, Sex and Family Status) are, as well as, for the Fair Housing Act.

In fact, the Seventh Circuit weighed in on this precise question in Cortezano v. Salin Bank & Trust Co., deciding that Title VII does not protect against discrimination based on citizenship or immigration status.

National Origin does not yet fall under this, but I can easily see down the road a disparate impact discrimination claim based on immigration succeeding down the road. Depending on the jurisdiction. It would need to be linked up with an actual protected class such as national origin or race, etc.

Don’t get into racial issues by profiling and mixing your politics with renting a place. Have policies and procedures establishing how applications are to be reviewed, and screened that are non-discriminatory, and require an application to be fully completed to be considered. Fully follow your policies with each application. Etc. Then it will be hard to argue you are discriminating and that immigration or race or national origin was ever an issue. You still may get sued, but then would at least be mitigating your damages and setting yourself up for a successful motion for summary judgment / disposition.

The geeky lawyer side of me, the interesting thing about the disparate impact claim as a method of claiming immigration discrimination on landlords is that it IS a viable option in Oregon now, and most other states. BUT, you have to claim it through an actual protected class such as national origin or race for e.g.

If you go to the FHCO OR website they specifically tell you that if you require a SS No on your application, and the applicant refuses, and then provides you with an alternative document will be considered a negative and disparate impact on individuals whose national origin is not the US, thereby having a disparate impact on that protected class. OR favors a ‘show me what you can’ mentality then a ‘no’ mentality.

The claim would get your through the door and past a motion to dismiss. It might not survive a motion for summary judgment, but thats after a lot of litigation and discovery.

So, does Illegal immigration status exists as a protected class? NO!

Does that mean you will be able to avoid a law suite by discrimination against illegal immigrants, or by asking for SS No and then denying their application if not provided? NO!

You don’t need to like the law, or agree with the law, or politics or whatever. Just learn how to work within the parameters of the law.

A good creative lawyer would simply file a disparage impact claim that your application and policy create a disparate impact on them due to their NATIONALITY.

So, just don’t discriminate and set up non-discriminatory screening practices and policies. Then you are good to go. And for those of you who say to just ask for a social security No and then not rent to them if they refuse. That would not work in states like Oregon for the above reason. It would be classified as grounds for disparate impact discrimination due to national origin. 

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