Those who can't succeed... teach?

Real Estate Agent · San Antonio, TX · Member since 2017 · 523 posts · 362 votes

Hey Guys I was on another forum and Tim Gordon posted something that really struck me. He said " At this stage of the market, those who can't succeed teach." This is something that I wholeheartedly agree with and something that really fires me up. I think it is morally wrong for these gurus to take advantage of newbies and people interested in real estate when they themselves are not truly masters or successful. Usually they know just enough to sound smart, and make it appear as though they are a master or real estate mogul. I remember I attended a real estate weekend boot camp and the guru showed us his 1099 to brag and show how he made 2 million the previous year. While others were gasping and drooling over this I was examining it and saw that he made over 1.3 million from his company that sold courses and offered coaching. This was my first encounter with a "guru" and really just opened my eyes because I had been ignorant up until that point. I don't want to start throwing out names but the first person that comes to my mind is Tai Lopez. These are the people who have literally become famous from these corny, sleezy ads where they rent nice cars and houses to impress and trick people. I was wanting you guys input/opinion on why you think they are so prevalent in today's world/market? It seems like there aren't any good guys fighting the good fight? What really upsets me the most about this, is that these gurus are the reason why REI have a bad name and are seen as con man and people trying to rob you blind. This has been something that has been on my mind lately and I'm wondering if I am the only crazy person that doesn't like them?

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Jay HinrichsBusiness Member

Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes

well i am going to take the contrarian stand here on your post.

I agree with some of those that sell wholesaling i see as bottom barrel guys simply because the way they teach it is illegal in many states..

but others that teach basic. flipping techniques they are all real its legal and just because 400 people sign up and only about 20 will do anything with the data .. but that's all things real estate.

1.. Just look at a 3 year old thread on BP you will not recognize hardly any names.. they all came and went and did nothing.. ( granted it was free or near free)

2. 50 to 70% those that try licensed real estate sales burn out in 1 to 3 years.. that's a fact.

3. 95% of those that take wholesaling how to course burn out and never do anything.. and probably 80% of those that buy direct mail and launch those themselves never do anything and that could be a low number.. I see it all the time on BP HELP i got a lead.. they do the mailing and have no clue as to how to close.

4. there are those that teach how to buy notes performing or non performing.. Those are are for profit teachers as well.

Advanced training cost money.. whether its worth it to an individual is up to them.

Also keep in mind most of the BP audience is buying rentals.. as cash flow is all they want and they think being a landlord will get them to the promised land ( whatever that is) and buying rentals is about as easy as anything in real estate anyone who can fog a mirror can understand the concepts.. anyone with 20k in their pocket and a decent fico can get a loan now a days.. so yes that takes no special brain power or advanced training.

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Michael Guzik
OP
Real Estate Agent · San Antonio, TX · Member since 2017 · 523 posts · 362 votes
8y
@Scott Carson You just had to throw Detroit in there man lol! I love that word "douschepreneur" and will definitely be stealing that from you. I agree though man it also isn't necessarily 100% the guru's fault because people are really looking for a shortcut and get rich quick scheme. The good thing is that those people will fall off and only the dedicated will be left standing over time.
@Tim G. I agree with that man college just wasn't for me. Both my parents went and paid over 100k to get a 50k a year job lol. They still to this day thing it was a great investment. I looked at the numbers and decided to drop out after my second semester. I was able to go for free thank God because I had scholarships but once they ran out I was like no thank you. It really is a sheep mentality and the school system is to blame. "Get straight A's so you can get a scholarship and go to college and graduate and get a good job." We are told that our entire life from Kinder to High school. Only weird people like us are the ones that really question that logic.
@Mark Spritz I'm glad to hear that my friend. I am aware there are some people like that in real estate I just wish they got more attention than the other gurus who are only in it for themselves. The people who really care and are doing what's right are not as flashy and appealing as these get rich quick teachers.
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Ola Dantis
Multifamily Syndicator · Houston, TX · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
8y
@Michael Guzik For the record, these guru guys you refer to really and deeply understand the human brain and how the flashy stuff gets attention. Most people in my generation [millenials] craves this shiny lifestyle (sadly or not [depending on your philosophy]).
I challenge anyone reading this post to go on YouTube and offer a free real estate course without the shiny Lambo at the back with pretty girls and watch your video GO NOT VIRAL! 😲
The honest truth is most people love to "aspire" to that flashy lifestyle, giving them some hope and/or consolation. I mean how else do we explain the success of these Internet gurus. People love to be gassed (urban dictionary that, lol)!
Frankly, the gurus are preying on human nature to make money just as politicians do to earn a vote, both tricksters do it scientifically well. Not surprisingly, there are equally a lot of people who can discern the noise and go after what they want and understand that nothing is free in life. People reach out to me all day about how they want to get started in real estate and those calls can take long (Note: I have a wife and baby who also needs my FaceTime).
Are there some great educators [not gurus] out there charging for their time? Hmmm, yes! Professors in colleges and some really good real estate teachers charge for their time (and why not?!!). For those wondering what the difference between a real estate educator and a real estate guru is [just one (others can add to the list)]:
- EDUCATOR: Actively engages and invests in real estate activities
- GURUS: Flashes their successes to entice to take a specific action [buying their courses]
If I go to a seminar and drop 10k with the hope that I would magically wake up the next year in a lambo with a pretty girl then I don't deserve the lambo (but maybe I deserve the girl).
To conclude, I'm not sure the gurus are the only ones to be blamed here, but I think those who shell out thousands and never do anything are equally to be blamed.
Ironically, all the "technical" knowledge is out here on the Internet and it is free. But free has never been sexy 🤗
NB | (I do not sell or have never sold any courses, ever)
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Michael Guzik
OP
Real Estate Agent · San Antonio, TX · Member since 2017 · 523 posts · 362 votes
8y
@Ben Leybovich I'm not sure what point you are trying to make could you elaborate lol?
@Collin Garbarino I fear the majority of teachers or gurus are not acting in good faith. I do agree there are many that do it because they love it and truly want to help, but I think there are for more that like to stroke their ego and make themselves look good. The sad thing is the good teachers usually do not get as much recognition and I think that is the big problem.
@Joel Owens I agree with you my friend. The difference is that you actually care about who you work with and say no. Gurus accept anyone willing to pay them because they don't care. I really do like what you said about everyone doing the bare minimum. It ties in with the entitled mentality that is very prevalent in today's world. All these people doing the bare minimum and expecting raises, success and wealth LOL. The good thing is that these people are easy to pass up and beat by those who go above and beyond and do a good job, every time regardless of the situation. The one thing that bothers me about corporate America from my experience is that people who kiss *** are rewarded more than those who work hard and do what's right.
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Michael Guzik
OP
Real Estate Agent · San Antonio, TX · Member since 2017 · 523 posts · 362 votes
8y
@Jeff Filali I don't have a problem with that either my friend. I believe you should respect and value your time if no one else will. I just don't like that most gurus haven't really done a darn thing and their time is not as valuable as they claim for it to be. Secondly like you said they take advantage of those people who really can't afford it and that couple of grand is a huge deal to that family or person. That is where I draw the line and why I think it is morally wrong to do that, especially when these guru's know full well the people will probably not do anything with that knowledge.
@Justin Stamper I'm glad he was transparent and honest with the audience most people are not like that. They just say what the audience wants to here so they can purchase their course. I believe we all know what is right and wrong. We are born with it. I believe it is called common sense and many people sadly lack that in today's society. You seem like a smart guy so I highly doubt you don't know what is right and wrong. I don't think that buying them for under market value is unethical if you are solving a problem and providing value. Which I would hope is what every real estate investor is doing. We are problem solvers, not people who try and rob homeowners blind and grossly underpay for their property.
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Michael Guzik
OP
Real Estate Agent · San Antonio, TX · Member since 2017 · 523 posts · 362 votes
8y
@Gerald Peters That's true I'm not saying their is no value in their material because I do the same thing as you. I just don't go out and purchase their 30k course and expect to be a millionaire in a month like most people are led to believe.
@Stephen Shelton That is true. It is just our culture to look flashy and successful. What isn't sexy and appealing is hard work, patience and doing what's right until you become successful.
@Matt Judd I agree whole heartedly my friend. Why pay money for gurus when you could get a wealth of knowledge by browsing through the forums for FREE!
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Sam Shueh
Real Estate Agent · Cupertino, CA · Member since 2016 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
8y
I just ignore these commentaries. But I agree it is not meant for everyone. The ones teach figure out a new way of making a living. About 30 years ago in Florida there was a Viet refugee associated with high end custom vehicle, and beautiful women selling you lessons to flip homes on TV. For $250 a seminar, he told you to go to court house with a cashier cheque. Bid on a house and fix it up and put it on the market. Just that easy.
For awhile FBI was interested in go after him. Years later he was free and now into Poker contest. Reporter asked him how he was doing. He stated it was very competitive. Reporter stated didn't you say it was easier to flip homes 30 years ago? He smiled said it was easier to teach someone charging a fee if you did not have to do anything.....
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Michael Guzik
OP
Real Estate Agent · San Antonio, TX · Member since 2017 · 523 posts · 362 votes
8y
@Jon Wanberg I agree with that brother! I'm in no way saying education or teachers aren't valuable I'm just upset at the prevalence of gurus or people who don't really know what they are talking about. I have seen 19 year old life coaches on Instagram for petes sake. You are telling me a 19 year old kid knows more than those who have lived life and actually done a damn thing?! That's the type of stuff that gets me upset. I agree though many people don't use the information they are given. You just really have to do your due diligence on who you are working with or learning from that is what I think most people don't do.
@Doug Leedy Of course I'm not saying that brother! I'm a life long learner as I believe everyone should be! I have never understood why people need their hand held for everything but I agree most people want to be told what to do. The problem is like you said people don't take the time to look for the good teachers out there they just throw their money at the first person that looks rich and successful.
2 Reply
Tim G.
Rental Property Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2011 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
8y
Originally posted by @Ben Leybovich:
Originally posted by @Tim G.:

Originally posted by @Ben Leybovich:

I just lost $30,000 on a deal gone bad. I might have been able to pay tuition to someone to save me the headache, but education is not meant to be free...
Get over it!
Free education is the basis of our education system in America till 12th grade. Education should be free and the world would likely be a much better place if we as humans wanted to help educate those around us without needing anything for it.
Hahah everything was free in Russia. Everything is free in Venezuela. I am not sure, but I don't think it's working too well...hahaha
I have a close friend and their family in Venezuela. Nothing is free there, please don't make generalizations (or jokes?) about something you clearly don't know anything about. When my friend married his wife, his father in law had a business and life savings. Thanks to hyper inflation he has nothing for his entire lifes work. Yeah, everything's free there because of fiat currency. They are refugees, people are robbed daily for food.
It doesn't feel like you place much time into your responses. If you want to be funny, find another forum.
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Justin Stamper
Investor · Orlando, FL · Member since 2012 · 822 posts · 303 votes
8y
I love the irony of all of this: BP’s Anti-Guru Army.....who all pay $300 a year to post on a website and get pitched online webinars and books on a weekly basis. I hope Joshua Dorkin is laughing all the way to the bank.
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Mindy JensenPro Member
BiggerPockets Money Podcast Host · Longmont, CO · Member since 2014 · 7k+ posts · 10k+ votes
8y
@Justin Stamper , the issue lies more with charging $25,000 for basic information. Also, all information on BiggerPockets is free. Webinars are free to attend, the forums, blog and podcast are all filled with information about real estate investing and are all free.
The paid memberships give access to tools, but the information is and always will be free.
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Justin Stamper
Investor · Orlando, FL · Member since 2012 · 822 posts · 303 votes
8y
Originally posted by @Mindy Jensen:

@Justin Stamper , the issue lies more with charging $25,000 for basic information.
I hardly see the difference between the "guru's" getting 25k for selling a well designed package of information, vs you getting 50k for writing a book on BP, or me hitting a 100k assignment fee on a deal. Either way we are selling something that someone is buying. The amount of money should have nothing to do with it, because at the end of the day it is what people are willing to pay.
0 Reply
Andrew Ware
Gardiner, ME · Member since 2015 · 190 posts · 177 votes
8y
Originally posted by @Tim G.:

Originally posted by @Ben Leybovich:

Originally posted by @Tim G.:
Originally posted by @Ben Leybovich:
I just lost $30,000 on a deal gone bad. I might have been able to pay tuition to someone to save me the headache, but education is not meant to be free...
Get over it!
Free education is the basis of our education system in America till 12th grade. Education should be free and the world would likely be a much better place if we as humans wanted to help educate those around us without needing anything for it.
Hahah everything was free in Russia. Everything is free in Venezuela. I am not sure, but I don't think it's working too well...hahaha
I have a close friend and their family in Venezuela. Nothing is free there, please don't make generalizations (or jokes?) about something you clearly don't know anything about. When my friend married his wife, his father in law had a business and life savings. Thanks to hyper inflation he has nothing for his entire lifes work. Yeah, everything's free there because of fiat currency. They are refugees, people are robbed daily for food.
It doesn't feel like you place much time into your responses. If you want to be funny, find another forum.
So Ben came from Russia as a kid and he is calling that system dumb (which is being unintentionally proposed by some in this thread.) He’s not just being glib.
This idea that you should not have to pay for information is very close to reading an Atkins book and determining carbs are flat out evil. I get how you got there but it’s a step too far and dangerous.
Sometimes the most expensive education is free.
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Michael Guzik
OP
Real Estate Agent · San Antonio, TX · Member since 2017 · 523 posts · 362 votes
8y
@Justin Stamper I agree with that man BP has gotten pretty pitchy lately. I did not realize this, until someone previously mentioned it. Once you really look at the titles of the webinars, books, emails and ads it becomes really obvious. I guess I didn't want to see that being a part of bigger pockets but you are right. I will say though that BP does provide lot's of value and I appreciate what they do, but the recent direction it's been going is questionable. I respect that they do have to make a profit though and one way to do that is have these guru type titles and captions to draw in a larger audience and get people to click or buy.
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John CasmonPro Member
Cincinnati, OH · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
8y
Interesting thread. I'll disagree with the general premise that those who can't - teach, but completely understand the notion that some gurus are "preying" on green-eyed investors. Just because you can do something doesn't make you a great teacher and some of the best coaches/teachers weren't exactly stars in their profession.
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JD MartinBusiness Member
Moderator
Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
8y
@Justin Stamper - I was in Orlando about a month ago and I swear, I almost came by just to see if I could see Marley :) My dog is a big fan of hers.
But I digress. Joan Baez said "Take what you need and leave the rest". I don't think anyone *needs* gurus, but if you are not having your money specifically stolen, I don't really see the problem. Yes, some of these people suck. That goes in virtually any industry. I think it's great that there's a lot of free stuff on BP. At the same time, there's a lot of people that can't tie their shoes if someone doesn't hold their hand through the process. There are some people on here - you can search the threads - that became pretty successful through a 'guru' course. There's far more that did not, but is that the fault of the guru or the student?
My own experience on some of this stuff, in no particular order:
1. Just because you give - or sell - someone the information, doesn't mean they'll ever do anything with it. I've talked to and met a decent number of people, and most of them haven't done anything, if they're even still involved in real estate. For a lot of people, the dream is as important - or more important - than action. So be it - who am I to get my kicks stompin' on a dream?
2. My experience with people who spend big money on guru stuff is they spend big money on everything. And a lot of them are looking for the easy way out, despite the fact that if you look *anywhere* objective, people will tell you that real estate is hard work.
3. Lots of people aren't willing to invest in themselves - they only want you to give of your time, freely, and infinitely. I used to talk to everyone for free, but quickly found out that half the people will just waste your time and the other half will try to suck you dry. Charge a fee and you'll find out whether or not the person is serious enough to pay the fee.
4. Most people don't value things that are free. They like the idea of free, but when considering the actual value of what they are getting, they'll assume it's low value or there's a hidden agenda.
Bottom line for me: I'm a pretty liberal guy, but I don't think it's my responsibility to keep someone from parting with their money. You generally get what you deserve and your returns are usually correlated to your level of effort. I don't think much of gurus who flat-out lie to people, but those that are providing an actual service? More power to them.
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Steve Vaughan
Rental Property Investor · East Wenatchee, WA · Member since 2014 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
8y
One of my big why's for even being on here is to stand up for the little guy. I don't like seeing people getting cheated. I've been to some of the free seminars just for s&g and found them not applicable to how we do a lot of things in our state. I'd imagine its the same for a lot of areas. Even the teaser info was bogus. All I can do is try to inform here and ask questions of the figure head that stump them. Pretty funny.
And don't get me started when part of the sales pitch includes the 'student's increasing cc credit lines to get even further into debt, only to get bad information.
At the same time, I am a horrible teacher/instructor. Even teaching my son tween math. I am not good at laying out steps and building a foundation. I say 'wait, back up. I forgot this part' all the time. I'd also rather take a nap than take the time to ministep a course and earn SE income.
Cookie cutter systems for wholesaling and tax sales do not work in all areas. The national gurus try and play the same ways in all areas of the country. The 'secrets' will cost you money or worse in some states, but why should they care? They got you to put 10s of thousands on your cc and now it's your fault you didn't take action and apply yourself. Use a local coach if you need one. Anybody who has/had a reality tv show is pretty much garbage IMO.
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Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
8y
Originally posted by @Steve Vaughan:

One of my big why's for even being on here is to stand up for the little guy. I don't like seeing people getting cheated. I've been to some of the free seminars just for s&g and found them not applicable to how we do a lot of things in our state. I'd imagine its the same for a lot of areas. Even the teaser info was bogus. All I can do is try to inform here and ask questions of the figure head that stump them. Pretty funny.
And don't get me started when part of the sales pitch includes the 'student's increasing cc credit lines to get even further into debt, only to get bad information.
At the same time, I am a horrible teacher/instructor. Even teaching my son tween math. I am not good at laying out steps and building a foundation. I say 'wait, back up. I forgot this part' all the time. I'd also rather take a nap than take the time to ministep a course and earn SE income.
Cookie cutter systems for wholesaling and tax sales do not work in all areas. The national gurus try and play the same ways in all areas of the country. The 'secrets' will cost you money or worse in some states, but why should they care? They got you to put 10s of thousands on your cc and now it's your fault you didn't take action and apply yourself. Use a local coach if you need one. Anybody who has/had a reality tv show is pretty much garbage IMO.
its just real estates version of Amway 5 links ACN Mary Kay and many other MLM type products and services. and the back end of these RE guru's are the exact same companies that are the back end of most MLM companies .. its call student fullfillment and its a HUGE business primarily based out of Utah..
The guru just did not wake up one day and do sizzle reels buy radio media make info mercials coordinate huge bus tour events etc etc.. these fulfillment companies do it all for the figure head.. or you could call them event planners.. just like those that work conventions in Vegas..
Although as some posted about the glitz and glamour IE the expensive car's picture in front of some jet.. etc etc.. the one who really brought this type of marketing was Dave Del Dotto if you remember him on the beach in Honolulu surrounded by bikini clad babes pitching his program.
Well Dave went on to be a very successful Vintner in the Napa valley he owned a winery right across the street from my home I have talked at length with him about the good ole days.. !!
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Jefferson Smith
Portland, OR · Member since 2017 · 107 posts · 27 votes
8y
Thanks for posting. It would be really valuable to have more and better information to evaluate what sources of paid teaching are worthwhile vs. which are just jacked-up priced sessions that could be handily replaced with a few books, some podcasts, and learning from a first deal.
I'm grateful to Bigger Pockets, whose plea to "avoid high-priced gurus" helped me persuade my Dad (and steeled me) not to give a traveling road show a buncha dough. I've found Joe Fairless, Hunter Thompson, and a whole bunch of BP people to be hugely helpful. (And want to emphasize that -- the folks more knowledgeable than I am who spend time to answer questions and lend their experience are what makes the Bigger Pockets community useful. Much gratitude.)
In response to the sentiment of "buyer beware," the rest of the marketplace can help buyers beware with good information and ways to evaluate. (And for any fundamentalist with a viewpoint of "a lion need not worry with the concerns of sheep," I'd say fooling people isn't the same as being bigger or tougher.)
2 Reply
Ben Leybovich
Rental Property Investor · Phoenix/Lima, Arizona/OH · Member since 2012 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
8y
Originally posted by @Tim G.:

Originally posted by @Ben Leybovich:

Originally posted by @Tim G.:
Originally posted by @Ben Leybovich:
I just lost $30,000 on a deal gone bad. I might have been able to pay tuition to someone to save me the headache, but education is not meant to be free...
Get over it!
Free education is the basis of our education system in America till 12th grade. Education should be free and the world would likely be a much better place if we as humans wanted to help educate those around us without needing anything for it.
Hahah everything was free in Russia. Everything is free in Venezuela. I am not sure, but I don't think it's working too well...hahaha
I have a close friend and their family in Venezuela. Nothing is free there, please don't make generalizations (or jokes?) about something you clearly don't know anything about. When my friend married his wife, his father in law had a business and life savings. Thanks to hyper inflation he has nothing for his entire lifes work. Yeah, everything's free there because of fiat currency. They are refugees, people are robbed daily for food.
It doesn't feel like you place much time into your responses. If you want to be funny, find another forum.
I was born in Russia. Grew up in Russia. And when Venezuela wanted to be like Russia it turned from a beautiful country into a **** pile like Russia.
I think I know plenty, dude :)
2 Reply
Tim G.
Rental Property Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2011 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
8y
Originally posted by @Ben Leybovich:

Originally posted by @Tim G.:
Originally posted by @Ben Leybovich:
Originally posted by @Tim G.:

Originally posted by @Ben Leybovich:

I just lost $30,000 on a deal gone bad. I might have been able to pay tuition to someone to save me the headache, but education is not meant to be free...
Get over it!
Free education is the basis of our education system in America till 12th grade. Education should be free and the world would likely be a much better place if we as humans wanted to help educate those around us without needing anything for it.
Hahah everything was free in Russia. Everything is free in Venezuela. I am not sure, but I don't think it's working too well...hahaha
I have a close friend and their family in Venezuela. Nothing is free there, please don't make generalizations (or jokes?) about something you clearly don't know anything about. When my friend married his wife, his father in law had a business and life savings. Thanks to hyper inflation he has nothing for his entire lifes work. Yeah, everything's free there because of fiat currency. They are refugees, people are robbed daily for food.
It doesn't feel like you place much time into your responses. If you want to be funny, find another forum.
I was born in Russia. Grew up in Russia. And when Venezuela wanted to be like Russia it turned from a beautiful country into a **** pile like Russia.
I think I know plenty, dude :)
I misunderstood the tone of your post. We probably have a lot in common on that topic.
In regards to information being free, I'm not quite saying that. I'm saying education should be free or cheap. Teaching people the skills needed to then be able to seek information and process it capably. Ok so that means some info will be cheap and or free, I don't think that's the worst idea. Volvo shared the patent for the three attachment point seatbelt, drugs are often not marked up to insane prices in other countries. Society benefits as a whole when people share. The scarcity mindset of many in real estate leaves me feeling really sad.
2 Reply
Ben Leybovich
Rental Property Investor · Phoenix/Lima, Arizona/OH · Member since 2012 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
8y
Originally posted by @Tim G.:

Originally posted by @Ben Leybovich:
Originally posted by @Tim G.:

Originally posted by @Ben Leybovich:

Originally posted by @Tim G.:
Originally posted by @Ben Leybovich:
I just lost $30,000 on a deal gone bad. I might have been able to pay tuition to someone to save me the headache, but education is not meant to be free...
Get over it!
Free education is the basis of our education system in America till 12th grade. Education should be free and the world would likely be a much better place if we as humans wanted to help educate those around us without needing anything for it.
Hahah everything was free in Russia. Everything is free in Venezuela. I am not sure, but I don't think it's working too well...hahaha
I have a close friend and their family in Venezuela. Nothing is free there, please don't make generalizations (or jokes?) about something you clearly don't know anything about. When my friend married his wife, his father in law had a business and life savings. Thanks to hyper inflation he has nothing for his entire lifes work. Yeah, everything's free there because of fiat currency. They are refugees, people are robbed daily for food.
It doesn't feel like you place much time into your responses. If you want to be funny, find another forum.
I was born in Russia. Grew up in Russia. And when Venezuela wanted to be like Russia it turned from a beautiful country into a **** pile like Russia.
I think I know plenty, dude :)
I misunderstood the tone of your post. We probably have a lot in common on that topic.
In regards to information being free, I'm not quite saying that. I'm saying education should be free or cheap. Teaching people the skills needed to then be able to seek information and process it capably. Ok so that means some info will be cheap and or free, I don't think that's the worst idea. Volvo shared the patent for the three attachment point seatbelt, drugs are often not marked up to insane prices in other countries. Society benefits as a whole when people share. The scarcity mindset of many in real estate leaves me feeling really sad.
I sell CFFU for a couple hundred bucks. I sell consulting for a lot more, because it's my time. But, in loosing $30,000 on a deal 2 months ago I learned a lot of very important lessons, and this is coming from a person who's been at this for 12 years. Now, all I am saying is that perhaps I could have learned all of these lessons for a whole lot less than $30,000. and in fact, people who pay me a fraction of that will learn these lessons.
Ultimately, I feel value has to be paid for - nothing is free in life. You have to sacrifice something of value in order to receive something in return. To think to the contrary is intellectually dishonest at best.
1 Reply
Michael Guzik
OP
Real Estate Agent · San Antonio, TX · Member since 2017 · 523 posts · 362 votes
8y
@Steve Vaughan I agree whole and am on the same page as you with that brother. I am glad their are people like yourself out there. I don't like seeing people getting cheated or lied to either and I don't believe we should just say oh well they should have known better and enable the gurus to continue to do what they do. And don't beat yourself up too much my friend at least you are honest with yourself and admit that. Some people aren't good teachers but they are amazing at leading by example and I believe that is you so keep doing what you are doing my friend!
@Jefferson Smith Thanks for the post brother and I hear you my friend! I love what you said that the rest of the marketplace/investors should provide good, honest information. I agree with that last statement you made as well and appreciate you making it. I just wish more people had that same mentality instead of being condescending towards others falling for these pitches or standing by and saying nothing.
2 Reply
Tim G.
Rental Property Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2011 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
8y
Originally posted by @Ben Leybovich:
Originally posted by @Tim G.:

Originally posted by @Ben Leybovich:
Originally posted by @Tim G.:

Originally posted by @Ben Leybovich:

Originally posted by @Tim G.:
Originally posted by @Ben Leybovich:
I just lost $30,000 on a deal gone bad. I might have been able to pay tuition to someone to save me the headache, but education is not meant to be free...
Get over it!
Free education is the basis of our education system in America till 12th grade. Education should be free and the world would likely be a much better place if we as humans wanted to help educate those around us without needing anything for it.
Hahah everything was free in Russia. Everything is free in Venezuela. I am not sure, but I don't think it's working too well...hahaha
I have a close friend and their family in Venezuela. Nothing is free there, please don't make generalizations (or jokes?) about something you clearly don't know anything about. When my friend married his wife, his father in law had a business and life savings. Thanks to hyper inflation he has nothing for his entire lifes work. Yeah, everything's free there because of fiat currency. They are refugees, people are robbed daily for food.
It doesn't feel like you place much time into your responses. If you want to be funny, find another forum.
I was born in Russia. Grew up in Russia. And when Venezuela wanted to be like Russia it turned from a beautiful country into a **** pile like Russia.
I think I know plenty, dude :)
I misunderstood the tone of your post. We probably have a lot in common on that topic.
In regards to information being free, I'm not quite saying that. I'm saying education should be free or cheap. Teaching people the skills needed to then be able to seek information and process it capably. Ok so that means some info will be cheap and or free, I don't think that's the worst idea. Volvo shared the patent for the three attachment point seatbelt, drugs are often not marked up to insane prices in other countries. Society benefits as a whole when people share. The scarcity mindset of many in real estate leaves me feeling really sad.
I sell CFFU for a couple hundred bucks. I sell consulting for a lot more, because it's my time. But, in loosing $30,000 on a deal 2 months ago I learned a lot of very important lessons, and this is coming from a person who's been at this for 12 years. Now, all I am saying is that perhaps I could have learned all of these lessons for a whole lot less than $30,000. and in fact, people who pay me a fraction of that will learn these lessons.
Ultimately, I feel value has to be paid for - nothing is free in life. You have to sacrifice something of value in order to receive something in return. To think to the contrary is intellectually dishonest at best.
This sounds like consulting on a specialized topic. That makes sense to me. I'm not saying we need to be out there holding folks hands making moves for them. I guess it has more to do with the value placed on the information. Is several hundred dollars an hour out of hand? If the content is really good for that specific need, its great value.
If the offering is sold under the guise its being successfully used by the person selling it or their staff and that isn't true (flipping systems etc..). It sounds like fraud to me. If the price is in the tens of thousands for this service and support, and the buyer's net worth is any large percentage of that amount, it doesn't sound appropriate. Especially if its suggested it be financed. That is not helping an investor, its placing a financial weight around their neck from the start.
I'm not here saying folks shouldn't charge for expert advice, but the entry level stuff. Man, you can find it anywhere and it doesn't hurt anyone to point someone in the right direction. We were all new at one point.
0 Reply
Justin Stamper
Investor · Orlando, FL · Member since 2012 · 822 posts · 303 votes
8y
Originally posted by @Steve Vaughan:

. Anybody who has/had a reality tv show is pretty much garbage IMO.
woah woah woah hold your horses there cowboy! haha! I'd like to think of myself as more of a "recyclables only"
0 Reply
Jeremy Z.
Tacoma, WA · Member since 2018 · 230 posts · 257 votes
8y
Originally posted by @Justin Stamper:

@Justin Stamper , the issue lies more with charging $25,000 for basic information.
I hardly see the difference between the "guru's" getting 25k for selling a well designed package of information, vs you getting 50k for writing a book on BP, or me hitting a 100k assignment fee on a deal. Either way we are selling something that someone is buying. The amount of money should have nothing to do with it, because at the end of the day it is what people are willing to pay.
The books you are referring to cost an individual what... $30? And you don't see the difference between that and people paying $25,000 for similar information?
"The amount of money should have nothing to do with it, because at the end of the day it is what people are willing to pay."
So if I sell you a Ferrari and when you get home you find out it is really a Honda, that is OK? These so-called "gurus" sell one thing and deliver another. They are scammers plain and simple.
Sorry, it's not really my intent to pick on you individually. I'll just never understand the "guru"-apologist mentality of so many on this site.
3 Reply

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