Top 3 Scams in Hard Money Loans

Top 3 Scams in Hard Money Loans

Lender · Salt Lake City, UT · Member since 2012 · 714 posts · 169 votes

From a fall article in the Scotsman Guide, the popular topic of loans scams in hard money is a conflictive one, particular for those who have been the victim of one. Loan scams are a huge problem in hard money loans for many reasons, too many to outline here in this discussion. What are the top 3 scams found in the arena of bridge lending?

First of all, a hard money loan, is any non-bank loan, whether it be a private individual, an organized fund, a mortgage pool, mortgage broker, etc. Loans scams in this financing niche are a problem, as I said, and the top 3 scams found most prevalently include:

1.Fees paid prior to closing a loan: Also called upfront fees, there are a lot of fake lenders who pretend to be funding loans but instead are having borrowers pay upfront fees. Ever seen the movie, ‘American Hustle?’ This is an example of an upfront fee loan scam.

2.Identity theft: This is another common loan scam whereby a group or individual will gather personal identifying information from a borrower, in order to steal his or her identity.

3.Bait and Switch: In this scam a legitimate lender provides terms to a borrower but then changes the loan terms right before closing.

To learn how to avoid the most common scams in hard money lending, read the entire article on Scotsman Guide at the link below.

What other scams are you seeing in hard money these days? Please share your insights below and comment on this discussion.

(Article Source: http://www.scotsmanguide.com/Commercial/Articles/2014/09/Avoid-Bridge-Lending-Traps/)

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Raleigh, NC · Member since 2014 · 125 posts · 37 votes
11y

Origination fees are legit but should be rolled into the loan after its approved and are paid at closing.

If the deal doesn't close no origination fees are due.

See this reply in the discussion

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  • Raleigh, NC · Member since 2014 · 125 posts · 37 votes
    11y

    Origination fees are legit but should be rolled into the loan after its approved and are paid at closing.

    If the deal doesn't close no origination fees are due.

  • Lender · Richardson, TX · Member since 2014 · 537 posts · 228 votes
    11y

    There are scammers in every industry.  It is always buyer beware.

  • Wholesaler · Scottsdale, AZ · Member since 2014 · 227 posts · 93 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Mark Esposito:

    Origination fees are legit but should be rolled into the loan after its approved and are paid at closing.

    If the deal doesn't close no origination fees are due.

     That's right. Origination fees should be paid through escrow.

    You should also always have a backup funding source to go to and word your contract paperwork you have with the seller so you (the buyer) can extend escrow if required, just in case the original HML does not come through with the agreed terms. You don't want to be left scrambling at the eleventh hour.

  • New York City, NY · Member since 2015 · 5 posts · 3 votes
    11y

    Please Beware of Scammers!

  • Lender · Salt Lake City, UT · Member since 2012 · 714 posts · 169 votes
    11y

    The article on Scotsman Guide is super informative in terms of what warning signs to look for, etc. It seems obvious to those who working mortgage lending and financial services, but for those with no experience, they may as well be in the shark tank. 

  • Professional · San Diego, CA · Member since 2014 · 232 posts · 20 votes
    10y

    Corey,

    Just got a chance to read the article .. Good read thanks

  • Lender · Salt Lake City, UT · Member since 2012 · 714 posts · 169 votes
    10y

    Thanks @Fred Sams

  • Johnson City, TN · Member since 2015 · 64 posts · 11 votes
    10y

    This is a very good article. This is a big issue in the hard money world. I as a lender do require the borrower to put up 1/2% to 1% (of loan origination) in escrow with a third party attorney. The reason behind that is I have to have a serious borrower. I see a ton of loans daily. If I started to work on these loans and pay everyone in my office just to find out the borrower is not wanting to move forward I would be losing money hand over fist. Not to mention the broker who only gets paid if the loan closes. So it helps the broker as well and shows that the borrower is not shopping both of us while we are working diligently to close their loan. Although a big difference with me and other "lenders" that do the same practice is they do not go to commitment right away. I issue approvals not LOI's (which is another topic) and go right to commitment if we have what I call a meeting of the minds. In the commitment it states that the 1/2% or 1% is refundable if I fail to close the loan. We will send it back right away with a tracking number. We have never had an issue with lending this way. Although it is more difficult as a lender to explain to the borrower especially if they have been scammed why we require this.

  • Cape Town, Western Cape · Member since 2016 · 53 posts · 2 votes
    10y

    My question is, if these scammers are so legit, then who can I give my details to without having my identity stolen from me? Thanks

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    10y

    @Zane Bradshaw your looking for cheapest money. this brings in the wanna be borrowers who are easily scammed.. just look at a HML that is local and has a presence like an office and good website those are real .. then you will see what the rates are for the area

    HML are

    2 to 5 points

    10 to 15% interst

    anything less than this is suspect for sure

  • Cape Town, Western Cape · Member since 2016 · 53 posts · 2 votes
    10y

    @Jay Hinrichs Thanks again. The thing is I can't seem to find HML where I live. What are your recommendations on doing international HML?

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    10y

    @Zane Bradshaw  read the Scottsman guide all lenders there are REAL

  • Lender · Salt Lake City, UT · Member since 2012 · 714 posts · 169 votes
    10y

    No Jay, not true. Those lenders PAY to be listed there. Many of them are just brokers and not direct lenders. And there certainly are "fee collectors" who have paid to be listed in the Scotsman Guide. There are no FULL PROOF methods for finding legitimate lenders unfortunately. Any PAID listing for hard money lenders is certainly going to have fake lenders posing in there among the real ones. 

  • Cape Town, Western Cape · Member since 2016 · 53 posts · 2 votes
    10y

    TRUE @Account Closed, are there international lenders listed in the Scottsman guide? I live in South Africa, so most lenders are not applicable outside of the US unfortunately 

  • Lender · Salt Lake City, UT · Member since 2012 · 714 posts · 169 votes
    10y

    Zane I don't think they have a special section for that in the magazine, but you can look at the company's websites and see where they lend, some do lend internationally. But you are a target for predators in the international lending arena unfortunately, since most of these fake lenders prey on those who seek funding outside of the U.S. 

  • Lender · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    10y

    I know this thread is old, but I never bought the, "You need to put up money to prove you are serious," excuse as an up-front fee. Even if escrowed, with proper instructions to return the money if the deal falls through, due to the lender's fault (and how do you establish that?), it's a lousy way to due business.

    Obviously, all borrowers must vet their lenders initially, before they present a deal, and this has been widely discussed here. But lenders too, must develop processes to determine who is "serious" and who is not and it's not up to a potential borrower to do the lender's job or develop those processes for them.

    Obviously, any deal can fall through, even when both sides have integrity. When both parties have gone in with eyes wide open, that is, with proper processes that allow initial screening, then the rest becomes a cost of doing business. Should property buyers now ask sellers to put up money to cover costs, in case something unfavorable is uncovered while in contract? Can you imagine?

    No lender should expect a borrower to pay for their inability or unwillingness to vet them first, or before there has been any significant time or dollar investment in the deal from either party. If these costs become such a significant burden to a lender, it's their responsibility to develop processes that mitigate them.

    Anyone can run their business as they wish. There are just too many lenders out there that don't do this to put up with it.

  • Lender · Salt Lake City, UT · Member since 2012 · 714 posts · 169 votes
    10y

    We do have borrowers pay for Broker's Price Opinions to determine value and Appraisals (as needed). If an inspection is required because of known issues in a particular area, we have the borrowers pay for those also. But this is only AFTER we have the borrowers sign the terms and they are unconditionally approved. We've only had borrowers back out after that point because "they" found something out that made "them" choose not to proceed. (e.g. ARV is not where they thought or someone just listed a property below what they had planned on relisting theirs for...) We've never backed out after issuing formal terms in writing. I think both reputation and borrower intuition are important. Is the lender reputable and do you get a good feeling based on any red flags that may have been thrown?

  • Cape Town, Western Cape · Member since 2016 · 53 posts · 2 votes
    10y

    Corey, that's then just really unfortunate for me then.. I really would like to get straight to business, but funding my projects are a big part of it. I just really wish I could find someone in my country, that I can personally go and meet, who would be able to lend money.. Otherwise, maybe I should plan a trip to the US for 6 months, and maybe do a flip or something.. It's a tough thing to think about.

  • Cape Town, Western Cape · Member since 2016 · 53 posts · 2 votes
    10y

    I just want to find a trustworthy lender, and know that I can stick with them. 

  • Lender · Salt Lake City, UT · Member since 2012 · 714 posts · 169 votes
    10y

    I think every real estate investor feels this way until a reliable funding source is identified. The private money lending waters are shark infested waters, with lots of scam artists. Do you have any local classifieds in the areas where you are investing? What about real estate investing clubs and meetup groups? There's likely to be lenders hanging out in those places. 

  • Cape Town, Western Cape · Member since 2016 · 53 posts · 2 votes
    10y

    There are local classifieds, however not for hard money lending.. They are more for general loans, that require a lot more aspects that a standard bank loan does.

    Also I'm trying to locate a local investors club around me, but can't seem to find one. It seems to be very common in the US though..

  • Don KonipolBusiness Member
    Investor · The Woodlands TX / Avon, CT · Member since 2009 · 6k+ posts · 10k+ votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:

    No Jay, not true. Those lenders PAY to be listed there. Many of them are just brokers and not direct lenders. And there certainly are "fee collectors" who have paid to be listed in the Scotsman Guide. There are no FULL PROOF methods for finding legitimate lenders unfortunately. Any PAID listing for hard money lenders is certainly going to have fake lenders posing in there among the real ones. 

    This information is incorrect.  In order to be listed as a lender in Scotsman Guide an advertiser must prove that they have funded three transactions in their name in the last six months.  This eliminates 95% of the brokers disguised as direct lenders being listed in the lenders matrixs.  

    In fact, Scotsman's Guide is where brokers go to find lenders potentially interested in funding the borrowers they represent.

    Private Mortgage Financing Partners, LLC
  • Cape Town, Western Cape · Member since 2016 · 53 posts · 2 votes
    10y

    @Don Konipol Thanks for that! So if I find an international HML on there, I will be able to rely on them not scamming me?

  • Vendor · Fort Worth, TX · Member since 2016 · 66 posts · 12 votes
    10y
    We are doing criminal history checks on hard money lenders and contractors. Too many people are getting ripped off.
  • Lender · Salt Lake City, UT · Member since 2012 · 714 posts · 169 votes
    10y

    I was unaware of this change at the Scotsman Guide for vetting lenders. This is something new then, because it wasn't always this way. This must have been implemented within the last 18 months. 

    And Don, just because someone is making loans, doesn't mean they aren't still collecting fees. There are a few examples of lenders that I won't cite here, who are listed in the Scotsman Guide and they fund a few loans a year yes, but the majority of the time they are giving out term sheets with hefty upfront fees with ZERO intention to fund the deals. This happens every day, all the time. Just because you can prove you funded a deal in the last six months, does not mean you are not poised to collect fees as your primary business. Some of these private money bridge lenders are collecting hundreds and thousands of dollars in upfront fees PER MONTH. I know this for a fact as I've seen some of my competitors doing this. 

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