Beware of Mr. Joseph England, Podcast speaker #206!!!

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Beware of Mr. Joseph England, Podcast speaker #206!!!

Vina Real
Alexandria, VA · Member since 2016 · 111 posts · 164 votes

Beware of Joe England! Podcast speaker #206

I had a bad experience lending money to Mr. Joseph England. I want to share my experience in the hope of helping others who are thinking of investing with him. I always see his posts on the forums, listened on his podcast and was impressed by his posts in 2017. Then I saw his ad on the BP Marketplace for a Baltimore property that he was wholesaling. I thought this looked like a good deal so I contacted him and eventually bought that house from him. I offered to lend him my $50000 from a SDIRA at an interest rate of 7% for 2 years. I thought that will be a win win situation for us. He'll be able to use the money while at the same time guide me through my first BRRRR. Two years came and he did not return that money nor the interest. I filed a lawsuit against him two months ago and got served the subpoena but he has not responded yet. This post is not written to get sarcastic remarks but to warn people to avoid Mr. England like a plague.

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David Wandel
Real estate investor · Pasadena, MD · Member since 2016 · 165 posts · 258 votes
6y

@Nicholas Fiorentino

I don't know whether there is any possibility of a counter suit since I am not an attorney but I believe that bad operators need to be called out and we should make the community aware of people/entity's that aren't what they claim to be.

Vina Real is not the only person having problems with Joseph England keeping his word so I am pretty confident that she is telling the truth.

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  • Nicholas Fiorentino
    Member since 2020 · 7 posts · 49 votes
    6y

    Do yourself a favor to avoid countersuit damages. Delete this post.

    31Reply
  • David Wandel
    Real estate investor · Pasadena, MD · Member since 2016 · 165 posts · 258 votes
    6y

    @Nicholas Fiorentino

    I don't know whether there is any possibility of a counter suit since I am not an attorney but I believe that bad operators need to be called out and we should make the community aware of people/entity's that aren't what they claim to be.

    Vina Real is not the only person having problems with Joseph England keeping his word so I am pretty confident that she is telling the truth.

    57Reply
  • Nicole Heasley Beitenman
    Investor · Youngstown, OH · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6y

    I wonder if BP will take his podcast episode down like they did with Clayton Morris.

    20Reply
  • Nicholas Fiorentino
    Member since 2020 · 7 posts · 49 votes
    6y

    @David Wandel - if you've been through a real lawsuit you know the discovery process includes any mention of the opposing party's name. Harmless/informative posts like (seemingly) this one can be twisted into a narrative that better explains why the deal went bad.

    I 1000000% agree that keeping the community apprised was wise, until she mentioned that she filed suit. At that point, you gotta stay quiet and put NOTHING in writing that can be used against you.

    12Reply
  • Darius Ogloza
    Investor · Marin County California · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6y

    I personally do not see anything defamatory in the OP.  

    11Reply
  • Nicholas Fiorentino
    Member since 2020 · 7 posts · 49 votes
    6y

    I'm not here to stir things up. Proceed as you want, I'm speaking from painful experiences. Carry on guys, stay safe!

    0Reply
  • JD MartinBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    6y

    BP's position on these types of things:

    BiggerPockets does not get involved in member disputes. We do not vet members of the site before they are allowed to join. Members are absolutely allowed to share their factual experiences with others.


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    19Reply
  • Suzanne Ludlum
    Investor · Fredericksburg, VA · Member since 2019 · 37 posts · 17 votes
    6y

    @Vina RealThanks for the heads-up!

    6Reply
  • Charlie MacPherson
    China, ME · Member since 2014 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    6y

    IANAL,  but as I understand slander and libel laws, truth is an absolute defense

    I would appreciate knowing that someone who I was about to invest with might be more risky than I thought.

    17Reply
  • Joseph H.
    Kansas City, MO · Member since 2018 · 91 posts · 30 votes
    6y

    @Vina Real Did you receive the property when he defaulted on the loan? Was that written into the contract? 

    4Reply
  • Vina Real
    OP
    Alexandria, VA · Member since 2016 · 111 posts · 164 votes
    6y

    @JosephH I bought the property from him 1 month before the $50k note was written. So it's definitely not part of the contract/loan.

    0Reply
  • Su Lee
    Investor · Orange County, CA · Member since 2019 · 34 posts · 11 votes
    6y

    @Vina Real thx for sharing!

    2Reply
  • Justin Robert
    Investor · Temple, TX · Member since 2015 · 111 posts · 83 votes
    6y

    This is confusing. So the house purchase and the $50K loan were not connected in any way? What was the intended use of the $50K? It was just a personal loan with no asset? 

    3Reply
  • Vina Real
    OP
    Alexandria, VA · Member since 2016 · 111 posts · 164 votes
    6y

    @Justin Robert It was a promissory note made from my SDIRA without an asset.

    2Reply
  • Justin Robert
    Investor · Temple, TX · Member since 2015 · 111 posts · 83 votes
    6y

    @Vina Real I see. What was the intent of the loan?

    1Reply
  • Justin Thorpe
    Member since 2020 · 437 posts · 675 votes
    6y

    @Nicholas Fiorentino

    Bluntly she is being quite nice! Enough said. Cheats, gurus and others who exploit people’s niceties and trust need to be exposed.

    11Reply
  • Vina Real
    OP
    Alexandria, VA · Member since 2016 · 111 posts · 164 votes
    6y

    @Justin Robert for funding of his rental/flip business.

    2Reply
  • Nicholas Fiorentino
    Member since 2020 · 7 posts · 49 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Justin Thorpe:

    @Nicholas Fiorentino

    Bluntly she is being quite nice! Enough said. Cheats, gurus and others who exploit people’s niceties and trust need to be exposed. 

    It isn’t about being nice or whether fraudsters should be exposed. She said to “avoid like the plague” the very person she’s suing in a public, searchable domain.

    No lawyer would recommend this and that was all I was trying to say buddy. 

    4Reply
  • Natalie Schanne
    Real Estate Agent · Princeton, NJ · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y

    @Vina Real - I don’t know this person but please clarify your claims.

    1. You bought a property in Baltimore he wholesaled you. You intended to rehab and Refinance this property.

    Is this wholesaled property still owned by you? You paid the 5-20k wholesale fee; right? Did you rehab and refinance it? How did that go? Are you renting it?

    What were the terms of your $50,000 loan to his rehab business? Just 2 years at 7%? Did you get any interest payments? I’ve offered interest only payments at 7% on a balance of $$ borrowed against properties I own. Until I pay the principal I keep paying my 7% monthly (.07/12 x balance). Is he ghosting you now? Obviously non responsiveness is very concerning when you’re not sure if someone spent your money on something frivolous. What loan paperwork do you have? Do you have any liens or assets to sue? If not, why not? Is there any chance he sold you any kind of mentoring or education package?

    3Reply
  • Mark Cruse
    Investor · Fort Washington, MD · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y

    @Vina Real who is your attorney? I may need to do something similar. 

    2Reply
  • Joe SplitrockPro Member
    Moderator
    Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes
    6y

    Real estate has risk. Whether someone is on the BP podcast or any other podcast doesn't vouch for their credibility. Someone can say whatever they want. There is not a team fact checking. The best con artists in the world are the smoothest talkers. 

    People need to do due diligence. Step one is just Google their name. Look for references on past deals. Do a credit check to see if they have open collections or payment default. Secure the money against the property.

    Also keep in mind that situations can change. People lose control of their business. It is not always that they plan to commit fraud on the front end. Incompetence is often the problem and results in the effect of you losing money. I have heard of people getting sucked into drugs or gambling and destroying a successful business. In other cases people scale too fast or get involved with the wrong people. The point is, there are lots of ways for things to go wrong. 

    This is why for most people, they are better off keeping money in index funds. Lower return, but also much lower risk. 

    11Reply
  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Joe Splitrock:

    Real estate has risk. Whether someone is on the BP podcast or any other podcast doesn't vouch for their credibility. Someone can say whatever they want. There is not a team fact checking. The best con artists in the world are the smoothest talkers. 

    People need to do due diligence. Step one is just Google their name. Look for references on past deals. Do a credit check to see if they have open collections or payment default. Secure the money against the property.

    Also keep in mind that situations can change. People lose control of their business. It is not always that they plan to commit fraud on the front end. Incompetence is often the problem and results in the effect of you losing money. I have heard of people getting sucked into drugs or gambling and destroying a successful business. In other cases people scale too fast or get involved with the wrong people. The point is, there are lots of ways for things to go wrong. 

    This is why for most people, they are better off keeping money in index funds. Lower return, but also much lower risk.

    Nasty divorces can tube  what was a successful company..  from the little i gather here the OP  is simply not all that sure what she did.

    and reading between the lines might have just given an unsecured loan.

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    8Reply
  • Vina Real
    OP
    Alexandria, VA · Member since 2016 · 111 posts · 164 votes
    6y

    @Jay Hinrichs And that's what I did, I gave him an unsecured loan/promissory note from my SDIRA. And that's what other loans from my account consist of.

    2Reply
  • Ryan Cleary
    Investor · Palm Beach County, FL · Member since 2019 · 370 posts · 330 votes
    6y

    @Vina Real

    Wow thanks for the warning!

    0Reply
  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Vina Real:

    @Jay Hinrichs And that's what I did, I gave him an unsecured loan/promissory note from my SDIRA. And that's what other loans from my account consist of.

    Gotcha then remedy for non pay is to sue and get a judgement against the maker of the note.

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    6Reply
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