Operating both STR and LTR - meeting required hours

Operating both STR and LTR - meeting required hours

Member since 2023 · 1 post · 2 votes

My spouse and I are buying a house with cash. This house was a fantastic deal and we ultimately want to tear it down and rebuild into our forever home. But we won't be ready to move in or even start the tear down for ~18 months. In order to help defray property taxes and take bonus depreciation, we are considering renting it out during that interim time. I don't think the house is a great candidate for STR or MTR because it's old and not updated, and it's not near a lot of tourist attractions or hospitals; further, I think it'll cost almost as much to furnish as we'd save in taxes. Our real estate agent who helped buy this house thinks that if we do some minor cosmetic updates and charge just under market rate, it will rent to a family who is relocating to the area and househunting, or even someone who is doing a long remodel, who doesn't care about a super new house and just wants the desirable/convenient neighborhood with good schools. We are willing to put some money into minor cosmetic updates to see if we can rent it out.

We already own an STR in another state and self-manage it. (I don't have a w2 job.) I know that the LTR participation rules are more involved and would require that I qualify for REPS which I don't have to do now. I also know cannot combine my STR and LTR hours, although I am willing to spend the 750 hours working on the LTR in addition to the hours I already work on the STR.


Has anyone done both LTR and STR? Any tips on making sure you work enough hours for each?

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Investor · Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 10k+ votes
8mo

Two cautions from a guy on the internet.  

1) Will you have to recapture all the accelerated depreciation the second you tear it down? If so kinda defeats the purpose. Especially if you don’t have a w-2 claim the loss against. 

2) IF you make it any kind of rental before it becomes your primary home you will never qualify for 100% tax free exemption as your primary. Not important if you plan to die in it. Only if you thought you’d be generating tax free equity when you built new. 

Ask your tax guy.  But it might actually be a better move to let it sit empty or just work on it slowly.  Considering you’re talking about such a short period of time. Especially if idea 1 is correct or you plan to sell in 5-10 years at a significant gain. 

Ps. I don’t know how much you estimate you could rent it out for. But if there’s a “peak” season you could use the Augusta rule to rent it out 2 weeks this year and 2 weeks next year tax free. 

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  • Accountant · Columbus, OH · Member since 2024 · 27 posts · 19 votes
    8mo

     Hi Kerrie,

    Congrats on finding a great deal on your forever home! It's great you are being proactive about making sure you are meeting the hourly requirements to qualify as REPS.

    I'd recommend that you attempt to do some of the repairs yourself to meet the requirement and save some money. I'd also try and avoid using your real estate agent for advertising and screening tenants. Make sure you are documenting everything thoroughly in case of an audit.

    Feel free to reach out with questions! I help real estate investors with tax planning and preparation.

  • Accountant · Long Island, NY · Member since 2021 · 184 posts · 148 votes
    8mo
    Quote from @Kerrie Garner:

    My spouse and I are buying a house with cash. This house was a fantastic deal and we ultimately want to tear it down and rebuild into our forever home. But we won't be ready to move in or even start the tear down for ~18 months. In order to help defray property taxes and take bonus depreciation, we are considering renting it out during that interim time. I don't think the house is a great candidate for STR or MTR because it's old and not updated, and it's not near a lot of tourist attractions or hospitals; further, I think it'll cost almost as much to furnish as we'd save in taxes. Our real estate agent who helped buy this house thinks that if we do some minor cosmetic updates and charge just under market rate, it will rent to a family who is relocating to the area and househunting, or even someone who is doing a long remodel, who doesn't care about a super new house and just wants the desirable/convenient neighborhood with good schools. We are willing to put some money into minor cosmetic updates to see if we can rent it out.

    We already own an STR in another state and self-manage it. (I don't have a w2 job.) I know that the LTR participation rules are more involved and would require that I qualify for REPS which I don't have to do now. I also know cannot combine my STR and LTR hours, although I am willing to spend the 750 hours working on the LTR in addition to the hours I already work on the STR.


    Has anyone done both LTR and STR? Any tips on making sure you work enough hours for each?

    Glad that you are aware that STR hours and LTR hours cannot be combined.

    In order to be sure you are hitting each, I highly advise you keep a detailed time log throughout the year. Whether that be one time log with a property identifier, or two separate time logs. Whatever is best for you. Consistent time keeping will have you aware of how many hours you still need. If you wait until the last minute to recreate a time log, you might find that you need much more time spent.

    @Eduardo Perez-Borroto is absolutely correct. Try to take over as much tasks as possible. From a remote standpoint, make sure you are tracking bookkeeping hours as well! And if you don't do your bookkeeping currently, consider taking it over (if you can confidently) for the year as those hours can stack quickly.

    One thing to consider is the benefit of non-passive treatment for your existing STR. If you already received the benefit of the STR "loophole", there may not be a large benefit of keeping that activity non-passive (and tracking the time needed). All depends on your current situation.

  • Investor · Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 10k+ votes
    8mo

    Two cautions from a guy on the internet.  

    1) Will you have to recapture all the accelerated depreciation the second you tear it down? If so kinda defeats the purpose. Especially if you don’t have a w-2 claim the loss against. 

    2) IF you make it any kind of rental before it becomes your primary home you will never qualify for 100% tax free exemption as your primary. Not important if you plan to die in it. Only if you thought you’d be generating tax free equity when you built new. 

    Ask your tax guy.  But it might actually be a better move to let it sit empty or just work on it slowly.  Considering you’re talking about such a short period of time. Especially if idea 1 is correct or you plan to sell in 5-10 years at a significant gain. 

    Ps. I don’t know how much you estimate you could rent it out for. But if there’s a “peak” season you could use the Augusta rule to rent it out 2 weeks this year and 2 weeks next year tax free. 

  • Ashish AcharyaBusiness Member
    CPA, CFP®, PFS · FL · Member since 2017 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    8mo

    @Kerrie Garner,

    Hey Kerrie, congrats on finding this property that you’re planning to turn into your forever home. That’s a great idea, and renting it out could make sense, but I do agree with Bill that it really depends on your goals. One thing to keep in mind is the depreciation recapture, and if the property is ever treated as a rental before it becomes your primary home, as he mentioned, you won’t qualify for the full 100% tax-free primary residence exemption later on.

    If you plan to stay in this home long-term, renting it first could still be a good opportunity. You would need to qualify for real estate professional status, which means 750 hours working in the real estate field and materially participating in each property. We do have plenty of clients who own both long-term and short-term rentals at the same time, but it can be tough to hit those hours with just one long-term rental.

    I would definitely do the repairs like others mentioned and make sure you keep a detailed time log. We have a tool that helps with this and I’d be happy to share it. Most importantly, I’d suggest getting with your CPA to go over your goals and make sure this actually aligns with your tax plan and benefits your overall picture. Good luck and happy to connect.

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  • Jason MalabuteBusiness Member
    Accountant · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 899 votes
    8mo

    I've worked with clients who operate both short-term rentals (STRs) and long-term rentals (LTRs), and an important distinction is that the hours do not carry over between the two. Even if a short-term rental qualifies as non-passive under the STR rules, those hours cannot be grouped with or applied toward long-term rental material participation or the 750-hour Real Estate Professional test.

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