Illegal immigrants as tenants
Anchorage, AK · Member since 2016 · 15 posts · 12 votes
Illegal immigrants as tenants
Most Popular Reply
Residential Real Estate Broker · College Station, TX · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 969 votes
8y@Philip Bennett. At least from a Texas standpoint - you could do whatever you desire.
First, being an "illegal immigrant" is not a "protected class". So, you are not discriminating against any of the "protected classes" - race, creed, familial status, etc.
Second, you have someone who cannot provide you with an acceptable completed application.
Third, the Texas Association of REALTORS Standard Application has a block for SSAN - you need that to accurately identify the person you are credit screening.
If you own the property, you can "NOT ACCEPT" the applicant without fear of retribution.
273 Replies
- Flipper/Rehabber · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 732 votes8yIn California they keep signing /introducing more and more bills to protect "immigrant tenants " when they say immigrant they mean here illegally . "Gov. Jerry Brown signed legislation Thursday to prevent landlords from threatening immigrant tenants with deportation, measures he said were part of broader efforts by his administration "to bolster resources and support for the immigrant community." One proposal by Assemblyman David Chiu (D-San Francisco) would bar landlords from disclosing information about immigration status in order to intimidate, harass or evict tenants without following proper procedures. It also would allow immigrant tenants to file civil claims against their landlords if they do. Another bill by Assembly Majority Leader Ian Calderon (D-Whittier) would ensure that no state office or entity in California could compel a landlord to obtain and disclose information on a tenant's immigration status." http://www.latimes.com/politics/essential/la-pol-ca-essential-politics-updates-landlords-who-threaten-immigrant-1507236300-htmlstory.html
- Realtor and Investor · Scottsdale, AZ · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes8y
Wait a minute gentlemen. NOT that I want to enter into this entanglement you all have going on. However, you have taken your eye off the ball of the topic (easily done when discussing anything close to a political hot button topic).
The question was how does the OP proceed if there is no way of the 18 year old adult being able to complete an application and properly be screened for credit and background, which is the landlord's current process for ALL adults applying to live in one of his units.
The answer is simple, and the person's imigration status is irrelevant. If ALL means ALL, then in the absence of ALL, the answer is NO.
- Severna Park, MD · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes8y
I can say this , there was a house rented to illegal immigrants in the neighborhood next to mine , a 4 bed 2 bath with an unfinished basement . There were 15 guys living there , bunks made of 2 by 4's and plywood . cars and trucks parked 3 deep in the drive , and the rest on the street . It took them 3 months to get them out . An immigrants right group claimed they were all related , cousins and brothers
- 8yTom GimerBusiness MemberDMV · Member since 2017 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
Originally posted by @Ihe O.:
Originally posted by @Tom Gimer:
@Ihe O. There isn't a relevant US statute, as far as I can tell. Unless and until there is, let's focus on how the current law applies.
The US version which isn't even good law concerns LGBT issues.
So what do you think the legal opposition to the President's travel ban is based on.
But if you think it's lawful to carve out policies for your rentals that have the effect of disproportionally disfavouring certain nationalities or immigrants I'm not your attorney so ......
I haven't seen a legal opposition to the President's "travel ban" hold up in court yet. So to me, the opposition is purely political.
As far as policies, creditworthiness is the concern. If putting all applicants through the same credit screening process negatively affects illegal immigrants, so be it.
Gimer Law516 Reviews - Realtor and Investor · Scottsdale, AZ · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes8y
Originally posted by @Tom Gimer:
Originally posted by @Ihe O.:
Originally posted by @Tom Gimer:
@Ihe O. There isn't a relevant US statute, as far as I can tell. Unless and until there is, let's focus on how the current law applies.
The US version which isn't even good law concerns LGBT issues.
So what do you think the legal opposition to the President's travel ban is based on.
But if you think it's lawful to carve out policies for your rentals that have the effect of disproportionally disfavouring certain nationalities or immigrants I'm not your attorney so ......
I haven't seen a legal opposition to the President's "travel ban" hold up in court yet. So to me, the opposition is purely political.
As far as policies, creditworthiness is the concern. If putting all applicants through the same credit screening process negatively affects illegal immigrants, so be it.
I agree Tom! Is this a first for us?? :)
- Investor · Princeton, TX · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes8y
@Cara Lonsdale As I have said over and over. Not every person who is in the country legally qualifies for a social security card. I can give you a long list of the potential types of visas a person could be on that don't have a social security number.
- Realtor and Investor · Scottsdale, AZ · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes8y
Originally posted by @Account Closed:
@Cara Lonsdale As I have said over and over. Not every person who is in the country legally qualifies for a social security card. I can give you a long list of the potential types of visas a person could be on that don't have a social security number.
So you have answered the question then. No SS card, no way to complete the application. No Go.
End of story. I don't know why you feel it necessary to make excessive accommodations for an applicant. It doesn't matter what their imigration status is.
By the way, imigration status is NOT a protected class! So, why are you tip toeing around what is the obvious answer here?
- Realtor and Investor · Scottsdale, AZ · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes8y
Originally posted by @Joseph M.:
In California they keep signing /introducing more and more bills to protect "immigrant tenants " when they say immigrant they mean here illegally .
"Gov. Jerry Brown signed legislation Thursday to prevent landlords from threatening immigrant tenants with deportation, measures he said were part of broader efforts by his administration "to bolster resources and support for the immigrant community."
One proposal by Assemblyman David Chiu (D-San Francisco) would bar landlords from disclosing information about immigration status in order to intimidate, harass or evict tenants without following proper procedures. It also would allow immigrant tenants to file civil claims against their landlords if they do.
Another bill by Assembly Majority Leader Ian Calderon (D-Whittier) would ensure that no state office or entity in California could compel a landlord to obtain and disclose information on a tenant's immigration status."
This is very interesting as it pertains to deportation. However, it doesn't speak to the application process. If a landlord has a policy in place for the application process, and a potential applicant can't meet the criteria to apply. Then the answer is simple. He/She cannot be considered for the unit. What is there to sue over civil rights for?
A landlord should be more concerned with bending their policies for an applicant who doesn't meet the standard criteria for applying. THAT is what will get a landlord in trouble moreso than not. Not turning away an applicant who can't complete the application process per the landlord's policy.
Take the imigration status out of it. It's irrelevant.
- 8yNicole A.Pro MemberRental Property Investor · Baltimore County Maryland and Tampa Florida · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
I, too, am curious about this taking in tenants without having any of their PII such as a social security number. I am pretty sure that it is indeed a landlord's business to ask for that info. It is also their business to keep that info secure, though.
- Investor · Milwaukee, WI · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes8y
As far as landlording, my take is simple. I would not rent to someone I knew was breaking the law, any law, whether I agreed with the law or not. I don't see how that policy would get any landlord in trouble anywhere, but I suppose I could be wrong, because all sorts of people are bonkers lately. In this case, they can't even fill out the app completely, the person filling out the app is known to be misrepresenting who will live there on the app (right?) and it's reasonably known to the landlord that their prospective tenant has been and intends to continue breaking the law. In what bizarro world could a landlord get in trouble for denying this applicant? Let me know so I can avoid investing in anywhere like that.
- Investor · Princeton, TX · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes8y
Originally posted by @Cara Lonsdale:
Originally posted by @Account Closed:
@Cara Lonsdale As I have said over and over. Not every person who is in the country legally qualifies for a social security card. I can give you a long list of the potential types of visas a person could be on that don't have a social security number.
So you have answered the question then. No SS card, no way to complete the application. No Go.
End of story. I don't know why you feel it necessary to make excessive accommodations for an applicant. It doesn't matter what their imigration status is.
By the way, imigration status is NOT a protected class! So, why are you tip toeing around what is the obvious answer here?
So you have made your point. You said there is no way for huge numbers of legal residents to fill out your application because of nation of origin. The disparate impact is clear. Since you are licensed and should have known better the highest level of scrutiny applies. So will the penalties.
- Realtor and Investor · Scottsdale, AZ · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes8y
Originally posted by @Account Closed:
Originally posted by @Cara Lonsdale:
Originally posted by @Account Closed:
@Cara Lonsdale As I have said over and over. Not every person who is in the country legally qualifies for a social security card. I can give you a long list of the potential types of visas a person could be on that don't have a social security number.
So you have answered the question then. No SS card, no way to complete the application. No Go.
End of story. I don't know why you feel it necessary to make excessive accommodations for an applicant. It doesn't matter what their imigration status is.
By the way, imigration status is NOT a protected class! So, why are you tip toeing around what is the obvious answer here?
So you have made your point. You said there is no way for huge numbers of legal residents to fill out your application because of nation of origin. The disparate impact is clear. Since you are licensed and should have known better the highest level of scrutiny applies. So will the penalties.
Your post makes no sense. When you can present a clear thought, I can respond appropriately.
- Investor · Princeton, TX · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes8y
Originally posted by @Thomas S.:
For those landlords believing that they are safe by not knowing the relevant facts about a applicant...under the law ignorance is not a valid defence.
Actually... it is a very good one in the US for the law we are talking about.
- 8yTom GimerBusiness MemberDMV · Member since 2017 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
Originally posted by @Cara Lonsdale:
Originally posted by @Tom Gimer:
Originally posted by @Ihe O.:
Originally posted by @Tom Gimer:
@Ihe O. There isn't a relevant US statute, as far as I can tell. Unless and until there is, let's focus on how the current law applies.
The US version which isn't even good law concerns LGBT issues.
So what do you think the legal opposition to the President's travel ban is based on.
But if you think it's lawful to carve out policies for your rentals that have the effect of disproportionally disfavouring certain nationalities or immigrants I'm not your attorney so ......
I haven't seen a legal opposition to the President's "travel ban" hold up in court yet. So to me, the opposition is purely political.
As far as policies, creditworthiness is the concern. If putting all applicants through the same credit screening process negatively affects illegal immigrants, so be it.
I agree Tom! Is this a first for us?? :)
Come on. You know you find yourself nodding in agreement all the time but just can't bring yourself to click Vote.
Gimer Law516 Reviews - Investor · Princeton, TX · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes8y
Cara... I am telling you that your policy will have a disparate impact on protected classes of people. If you do not know what that means then you are not qualified to be a real estate professional.
- Realtor and Investor · Scottsdale, AZ · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes8y
Originally posted by @Account Closed:
Cara... I am telling you that your policy will have a disparate impact on protected classes of people. If you do not know what that means then you are not qualified to be a real estate professional.
Your insults aren't necessary. We can have a dignified conversation (even if we disagree) without insulting eachother, right?
I guess I am wondering how you connected the OP's question of illegal immigrant who cannot apply, to protected classes? You understand that illegal immigrants are NOT a protected class, right?
Regarding the legitimate protected classes, this has nothing to do with them. A policy is a policy. To deny someone the ability to rent one of your units because they can't properly complete the application for whatever reason is just following policy. The only violation would be if you told them that they couldn't be your resident because they were (Fill in the blank of the protected class).
Sticking to policies aren't a bad thing. Think of it this way..... If you are pulled over by the cops for speeding and they ask for your driver's license, and you tell them that you couldn't get that because of whatever reason, is the cop going to make an exception because the person in the car is of a certain protected class or illegal immigrant? Of course not! So, having a policy for doing business is the way the world works. Bending the rules for one person over the other is how you open yourself up to liability as people can claim selective enforcement.
Whether protected class, or illegal immigrant or reagular every day Joe, if you can't provide the necessary requirements to apply (as determined by the landlord), then a rejection of your application is not a grounds for civil lawsuit. It is simply just a no.
- 8yTom GimerBusiness MemberDMV · Member since 2017 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
@Account Closed I assume you're referring to Cara's stated policy of requiring SSN... essentially evidence of lawful residency as well as the right to work, as part of the screening process.
Your position appears to be in direct contravention of guidance provided by HUD...
Private Landlords. In January of 2003, HUD issued a memo which restated the Fair Housing non-discrimination requirements, but clarified that asking applicants to document their citizenship or immigration status does not violate the Fair Housing Act. "The Act does not prohibit discrimination based solely on a person's citizenship status." In other words, a non-citizen who cannot prove legal residency in the country can be rejected. However, these requirements must be applied in a non-discriminatory manner, i.e., different requirements cannot be placed on different nationalities.
Gimer Law516 Reviews - Specialist · Madison, WI · Member since 2017 · 1 post · 0 votes8y
Wondering if anyone has experience using a "contract for deed" for when clients can't get traditional financing. It seems to be super common in Minnesota and I found this "guide," but wanted to see if anyone has any thoughts:
- Visalia-Fresno, CA · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 863 votes8yCharge more rent if they are illegal
- 8yNed J.Pro MemberInvestor · Manteca, CA · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
Cant fill out the application and provided the necessary info to be able to run credit check or background check?..... DECLINED....discussion over.
Stick to the application policy and there will be no issues. As soon as you start ignoring the policy and making exceptions then you may be seen as being discriminatory, since apparently your "policy" doesn't mean squat.... you make it up as you go
For the "legal" people that can't provide a SSN etc....not a protected class...... I'm not declining you because of race, sex, religion, sexual orientation etc..... I'm declining you because you cant provide the necessary info for me to be able to run background check or credit check....until the law says I can't legally require a credit check and background check, then I'm well protected
- Investor · Laurel, MD · Member since 2016 · 395 posts · 191 votes8y
Originally posted by @Mike Cumbie:
So just to make sure I understand your position. "Do not perform Background checks/Credit checks or employment verification, because it may possibly effect one group more than another". Landlords should trust their applicants to be truthful. Got it!
You are just trying to start trouble so I will ignore you.
- Investor · Princeton, TX · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes8y
@Cara Lonsdale I hope you are smart enough to know most people would find your condescension insulting. Arrogance is always a sign of being ignorant. Let me explain a few things you apparently do not know.
1) E-verify is voluntary for almost all employers in the United States.
2) Having a social security number or card does not mean someone is in the United States legally.
3) Not having a social security number does not mean someone is in the United States legally.
4) There is something called "disparate impact." Wikipedia defines it as follows... "Disparate impact in United States law refers to practices in employment, housing, and other areas that adversely affect one group of people of a protected characteristic more than another, even though rules applied by employers or landlords are formally neutral.
5) Many of the people living in the United States legally without a Social Security number have much more financial wherewithal than the average tenant.
6) The Fair Housing Act does prohibit housing discrimination based on nation of origin.
7) Most foreign students do not have social security numbers.
I hope you are not suggesting that "policy" to anyone near a major law school, medical school, nursing school, flight school. Many of those student pay a year in advance.
I am also aware that the original post was about people in the country illegally. Other people changed the subject to e-verify and social security.
If someone wants not to rent to illegal immigrants is it fairly simple. Simply add this to your application.
"It is policy of the landlord not to rent to people in the country illegally. Are all applicants in the United States legally? Yes No"
It is that simple. That is really enough to keep people from renting from you.
By the way... in most places if someone called ICE and told them one of their tenants was in the United States illegally they would laugh and hang up.
- 8yMike CumbieBusiness MemberREALTOR® · Brockport, NY · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
I will apologize for making a comment that did not include a fair option for you to respond properly.
I am sorry and my intention was not to dissuade you from posting your opinion or suggestions.
I will rephrase.
What criteria do you recommend a landlord to require of an applicant and what proof would you suggest they utilize to remain compliant?
- Investor · Laurel, MD · Member since 2016 · 395 posts · 191 votes8y
Originally posted by @Cara Lonsdale:
Originally posted by @Account Closed:
Cara... I am telling you that your policy will have a disparate impact on protected classes of people. If you do not know what that means then you are not qualified to be a real estate professional.
Your insults aren't necessary. We can have a dignified conversation (even if we disagree) without insulting eachother, right?
I guess I am wondering how you connected the OP's question of illegal immigrant who cannot apply, to protected classes? You understand that illegal immigrants are NOT a protected class, right?
Regarding the legitimate protected classes, this has nothing to do with them. A policy is a policy. To deny someone the ability to rent one of your units because they can't properly complete the application for whatever reason is just following policy. The only violation would be if you told them that they couldn't be your resident because they were (Fill in the blank of the protected class).
Sticking to policies aren't a bad thing. Think of it this way..... If you are pulled over by the cops for speeding and they ask for your driver's license, and you tell them that you couldn't get that because of whatever reason, is the cop going to make an exception because the person in the car is of a certain protected class or illegal immigrant? Of course not! So, having a policy for doing business is the way the world works. Bending the rules for one person over the other is how you open yourself up to liability as people can claim selective enforcement.
Whether protected class, or illegal immigrant or reagular every day Joe, if you can't provide the necessary requirements to apply (as determined by the landlord), then a rejection of your application is not a grounds for civil lawsuit. It is simply just a no.
If every landlord had the same application form, the same policies and applied them in the same way to everybody then it would be appropriate to compare the situation to drivers licensing.
So I'm with Michael. The trouble with "A policy is a policy" is that it allows people to have policies like not allowing people to rent or get a job if they plan to have children.