seller doesn't want to use a lawyer

Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2015 · 435 posts · 421 votes

I'm buying a small apartment building. The owner is a realtor. Owner says they don't want to use an attorney, that they will represent themselves. Owner is giving some seller financing. I'm uncomfortable with this, so is my attorney. He says that seller must have representation. Is it legal in CT for seller who is not an attorney to represent self for a closing, and for a seller's financing loan?

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Ned CareyPro Member

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Investor · Baltimore, MD · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 13k+ votes

@Karen F. I am not an attorney so the following is simply my laypersons opinion. You should have an attorney and it should be settled by a title company with title insurance. As long as the company settling the transaction does not care, I don't see any problem whatsoever.

Personally I wouldn't give a damn if the seller had an attorney. This is a commercial transaction. I find it hard to believe that CT would require the seller to have an attorney, nor to have any sympathy for a seller who chose not to use one, if there is a dispute.

If my attorney was not smart enough to put in disclaimers that the seller chose not to use an attorney or similar language to cover the issue I would be looking for a new attorney.

I would point blank ask the attorney to quote me the code requiring it. I find that hard to believe it is true.

I think the seller is a fool for not wanting an attorney. However if the roles were reversed, I would feel quite insulted that you feel, I as a seller can't make my own choices.

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Ned CareyPro Member
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Investor · Baltimore, MD · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 13k+ votes
7y
@Karen F. I am not an attorney so the following is simply my laypersons opinion. You should have an attorney and it should be settled by a title company with title insurance. As long as the company settling the transaction does not care, I don't see any problem whatsoever.
Personally I wouldn't give a damn if the seller had an attorney. This is a commercial transaction. I find it hard to believe that CT would require the seller to have an attorney, nor to have any sympathy for a seller who chose not to use one, if there is a dispute.
If my attorney was not smart enough to put in disclaimers that the seller chose not to use an attorney or similar language to cover the issue I would be looking for a new attorney.
I would point blank ask the attorney to quote me the code requiring it. I find that hard to believe it is true.
I think the seller is a fool for not wanting an attorney. However if the roles were reversed, I would feel quite insulted that you feel, I as a seller can't make my own choices.
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Karen F.
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Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2015 · 435 posts · 421 votes
7y
I looked it up, and apparently it is legal in CT to sell a property without using an attorney. But my attorney flat out refused, knowing that seller would expect him to do the work of both sides, without being compensated for it, plus he said that ethically, he just would not do it. So I just gave up on the deal. Seller texted me last night that they're going to use a lawyer, so now we can move ahead.
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Ned CareyPro Member
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Investor · Baltimore, MD · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 13k+ votes
7y
@Karen F. I really don't understand the attitude of your attorney. Is your attorney a title company? Is he or she going to be closing the sale?
i don't think your attorney is honoring his ethical duty to you. I would not accept that attitude from an attorney and If i were in your shoes I would not work with this attorney on this deal, even though he or she now agrees to. I would tell him to read the Model Rules of Professional Conduct as i was walking out his door.
He won't have to read far. It is the second paragraph of the preamble of a 40 page document covers it.
I am not an attorney so I can't advise you in legal matters but the above is how I would handle it. I have little tolerance for professionals that don't do their job. You might be able to guess it is a hot button for me.
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Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
7y
@Ned Carey too funny we never use attornies .. I can do my own deeds and record them.
not sure why you need an attorney.. we can do our own title search thats easy.
but i know in attorney states most dont know any better.. because thats the way its always been
and those in the business never learn how to do their own closings like we do on the west coast.
I have done literally hundreds of closings with no title escrow or attorney and lived to fight another day.
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Ned CareyPro Member
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Investor · Baltimore, MD · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 13k+ votes
7y
@Jay Hinrichs Do you get judgement reports and check the validity of the past transactions? How do you get title insurance? I've certainly done my own transactions and recorded my own deeds but it's not something I would do as a regular procedure
In MD the law require an attorney creates deeds.
My rant immediately above it irrespective of what type of work is being done. It amazes me how many people in the position of a fiduciary don't seem to understand what that means. I try to work with the top professionals. I have little tolerance for knuckleheads.
PS You laugh at all my posts. I know when I write something you are going to chime in and point out where I am wrong. I have learned a lot from you.
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Tom GimerBusiness Member
DMV · Member since 2017 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
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Originally posted by @Ned Carey:
@Jay Hinrichs Do you get judgement reports and check the validity of the past transactions? How do you get title insurance? I've certainly done my own transactions and recorded my own deeds but it's not something I would do as a regular procedure
In MD the law require an attorney creates deeds.
In MD either an attorney OR one of the parties named in the instrument must certify that they prepared it.
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Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
7y
Originally posted by @Ned Carey:

@Jay Hinrichs Do you get judgement reports and check the validity of the past transactions? How do you get title insurance? I've certainly done my own transactions and recorded my own deeds but it's not something I would do as a regular procedure
In MD the law require an attorney creates deeds.
My rant immediately above it irrespective of what type of work is being done. It amazes me how many people in the position of a fiduciary don't seem to understand what that means. I try to work with the top professionals. I have little tolerance for knuckleheads.
PS You laugh at all my posts. I know when I write something you are going to chime in and point out where I am wrong. I have learned a lot from you.
our title plants are digital.. so we can get date downs on the phone as a premier client. of course your average investors who does a deal here or there will not get the same service.. its the same way many banks can do their own escrows in our states.. And utls as a general rule are never an issue they don't lien the property they follow owners or tenant personally. So that was something I had to get used to out east. So for us. if you have a bank loan on the property and most do.. you can be 99% sure the bank got title insurance.. you take the last recorded deed which the title company will send me in what's called a TRIO .. give them an address on the phone and within 120 seconds the TRIO is in your in box.. just take that deed.. use the legal description and vesting and fill out your own deed.. WE can buy whats called Stevens Ness forms which are deeds assignments all sorts of legal doc's right at Staples .. same with leases and notices to quit and all that stuff.
Its not the law that an attorney has to prep deeds in our area. .. and you do take a risk no doubt but in the distressed real estate sand box we play in its all about risk. I will say though things have gotten tighter as the amount of fraud has gone up.. I had lunch with Pat Stone a few months ago.. Owner of WFG title .. he said that the east coast states there is much more title issues and title claims.
so to be fair and balanced I fully understand why you guys need attorneys there.. one its the law and two you have much older and in many cases more complicated titles.. Not all states though require an attorney to draft the Deed..
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Ned CareyPro Member
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Investor · Baltimore, MD · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 13k+ votes
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@Tom Gimer Yes I was aware one of the parties could create the deed. However since an LLC is required to be represented by a lawyer can an LLC create its own deeds?
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Tom GimerBusiness Member
DMV · Member since 2017 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
7y
Originally posted by @Ned Carey:

@Tom Gimer Yes I was aware one of the parties could create the deed. However since an LLC is required to be represented by a lawyer can an LLC create its own deeds?
An LLC cannot represent itself in court, but to my knowledge there is no requirement that an attorney prepare a deed involving an entity simply because it is an entity.
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