How much does that Starbucks habit REALLY cost you?

How much does that Starbucks habit REALLY cost you?

Investor · Orange County, CA · Member since 2009 · 230 posts · 138 votes

I just finished Money: Master the Game by Tony Robbins. Great book! 

One part that really hit me in the book was the long-term opportunity cost of "little" splurges like regularly hitting Starbucks or eating out. Relatively small monthly expenses may not seem like a lot of money, but they can represent a huge opportunity cost from the standpoint of retirement savings.  

For example, let's assume a guy named Joe spends just $5 every morning at Starbucks. Assuming 30 days in the month (to keep it simple), that adds up to $150 a month spent on coffee.   

What if Joe trimmed his Starbucks habit back to a max of $50/month and faithfully invested the $100 savings in his IRA? Assuming just a 5% rate of return on the money, this is what his former Starbucks money would turn into decades down the line:

  • 20 years: $41,103.37
  • 30 years: $83,225.86
  • 40 years: $152,602.02

Wow. Assuming Joe is in his 20s or 30s, he could potentially add well over $100K to his retirement net worth simply by trimming back his Starbucks habit. 

Robbins makes the point that there's nothing wrong with spending money on things you enjoy, but keep it within reason. It's important to remember the long-term cost of overspending on little indulgences. 

Even if you can't give up the Starbucks or eating out habit, it's probably worth it to see if you can get a better deal on your cable package, car insurance, cell phone plan, etc., then invest the difference into your retirement savings. As you can see (and as Robbins points out), a little discipline today can go a long ways toward a better future in retirement.

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Scott TrenchPro Member
Rental Property Investor · Denver, CO · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 6k+ votes
9y

It's my opinion that this is a ridiculous premise. Yes, any small expense, repeated regularly, can compound over time. By definition, if it is repeated frequently so as to represent a significant cumulative result, it is a large expense. 

However, to claim that your latte is keeping you poor is a silly and ineffective approach to developing a plan. If you are on this site, your goal likely isn't to save an additional 1-2% of your income. It is likely that your goal is to attain financial independence with significant ($1M+?) assets and significant cash flow ($3,000 - $5,000 - $10,000+?) and to do this far earlier in life than 40 years down the line in our 60s and 70s.

 To move towards that goal, a strategy of cutting out lattes is going to be laughably ineffective. Assuming that you are attempting to cut out spending, there are likely to be only three categories in which you can make a material (decades faster in achieving your goal) difference.

Note, this does not take into account what you can do on the income front.

These three categories are:

* Your Housing Costs

* Your Transportation Costs

* Your food costs 

See this graph of average american household spending from the Bureau of Labor Statistics:

Where are lattes in that graph? Maybe a percentage of food? Maybe entertainment?

Ridiculous. 

Obviously, if you analyze your own spending and find lattes to be a chunk large enough for it to have it's own piece of the pie, fix that personal problem. 

But, the rest of us would do better to focus heavily on fixing huge problems, like cutting our housing and transportation budgets in half.

Of course, cutting out spending in general on unnecessary things like lattes does help a little bit. 

I think that a smarter way to interpret the point about lattes is in thinking through every small decision of similar size, and making it a default to reject them out of hand, and plan around them. This includes coffess, snacks from vending machines, drinks or food at local restaurants when the same value could be had at home for 1/10th the cost, etc.

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  • Rental Property Investor · Davenport, FL · Member since 2016 · 593 posts · 382 votes
    9y

    Is there a 12 step program for cutting out the Starbucks? Who is guilty of this indulgence?? This guy!

  • Scott TrenchPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Denver, CO · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 6k+ votes
    9y

    It's my opinion that this is a ridiculous premise. Yes, any small expense, repeated regularly, can compound over time. By definition, if it is repeated frequently so as to represent a significant cumulative result, it is a large expense. 

    However, to claim that your latte is keeping you poor is a silly and ineffective approach to developing a plan. If you are on this site, your goal likely isn't to save an additional 1-2% of your income. It is likely that your goal is to attain financial independence with significant ($1M+?) assets and significant cash flow ($3,000 - $5,000 - $10,000+?) and to do this far earlier in life than 40 years down the line in our 60s and 70s.

     To move towards that goal, a strategy of cutting out lattes is going to be laughably ineffective. Assuming that you are attempting to cut out spending, there are likely to be only three categories in which you can make a material (decades faster in achieving your goal) difference.

    Note, this does not take into account what you can do on the income front.

    These three categories are:

    * Your Housing Costs

    * Your Transportation Costs

    * Your food costs 

    See this graph of average american household spending from the Bureau of Labor Statistics:

    Where are lattes in that graph? Maybe a percentage of food? Maybe entertainment?

    Ridiculous. 

    Obviously, if you analyze your own spending and find lattes to be a chunk large enough for it to have it's own piece of the pie, fix that personal problem. 

    But, the rest of us would do better to focus heavily on fixing huge problems, like cutting our housing and transportation budgets in half.

    Of course, cutting out spending in general on unnecessary things like lattes does help a little bit. 

    I think that a smarter way to interpret the point about lattes is in thinking through every small decision of similar size, and making it a default to reject them out of hand, and plan around them. This includes coffess, snacks from vending machines, drinks or food at local restaurants when the same value could be had at home for 1/10th the cost, etc.

  • Investor · Princeton, TX · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    @Scott Trench   It is actually in the food slice.  

    It reminds me of something I have noticed about the refugees I have helped over the last 25 years.  They tend to start out with lower paid jobs than most Americans but end up with much more money in savings.  It comes down to four things...

    1)  No smoking.

    2)  No drinking.

    3)  VERY little eating out.

    4)  Letting family members live with them to help with the mortgage.

    That is how a clerk at a convenience store saves enough money to buy a convenience store.

  • Investor · Lake Villa, IL · Member since 2014 · 90 posts · 48 votes
    9y
    But what if "Joe" met with clients/partners at Starbucks or he sat in Starbucks working out deals that he might not have done at home with distractions? Would it be worth the $150K investment over time? Pay yourself first. Perhaps that Starbucks coffee was the small initial investment to a great deal.
  • Investor · Coplay, PA · Member since 2015 · 404 posts · 315 votes
    9y

    It worked for me and I can weather any storm that comes along.

    Till this day I do not buy anything at a convenience store or eat out unless I am out of town.

    When I eat out it is not in any chain restaurant. It also shocks people when I pick up the whole tab. It shocks me, because they all look to be doing better then me.

    They all eat out and buy Starbucks.

  • Julie MarquezPro Member
    Investor · Skagit County, WA · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 807 votes
    9y

    I study my personal finances and spending habit too much. I already kill myself with craziness trying to cut little expenses here and there. IT DRIVES ME CRAZY! But that's how I grew up and I'm trying to change the guilt I get from buying a coffee. Maybe the advice is helpful for some, but for me, it's not worth it and I need to find other ways of creating wealth than worrying about every little penny.

  • Investor · Coplay, PA · Member since 2015 · 404 posts · 315 votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Brock Y.:

    But what if "Joe" met with clients/partners at Starbucks or he sat in Starbucks working out deals that he might not have done at home with distractions? Would it be work the $150K investment over time? Pay yourself first. Perhaps that Starbucks coffee was the small initial investment to a great deal.

     That is a business meeting.

    Not the Starbucks you get on the way to work or the way home. Or eating out every day. Stopping for gas and running inside to get a snack. This is the spending that really makes a difference in your life. 

    When I help people with this, usually the first thing they say is "I need to stop smoking, that costs a lot of money." I tell them stopping smoking is not part of this. You can do this and smoke. I know that if they need to stop smoking to save money, then they will never do it.

  • Investor · Lake Villa, IL · Member since 2014 · 90 posts · 48 votes
    9y

    @Mark Holencik Sorry. From the OP I did not see that he was referring to non-business meetings.

  • Investor · Orange County, CA · Member since 2009 · 230 posts · 138 votes
    9y

    @Scott Trench Respectfully, you're obviously entitled to your opinion, but I think you missed the broader point I was trying to make here. I wasn't implying that your "latte is keeping you poor" or that buying coffee will lead to a destitute retirement. I also wasn't minimizing the importance of cutting back on big ticket expenses like housing or taxes where possible. 

    The point I WAS making is this: overindulgence in seemingly small expenses could have a big impact on your future financial security. The whole point of my post was that a little extra financial discipline can pay off in a big way down the line. That's all. I don't know see how that point would seem "ridiculous".

    I thought the point I was making was a very positive one. Just very small adjustments now in your financial life can payoff huge in the future. 

  • Scott TrenchPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Denver, CO · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 6k+ votes
    9y

    Sorry! Was not saying you were ridiculous. Was saying the the latte concept (which is used by many writers in many books) is ridiculous to me in the sense that many times these small purchases are not material parts of the budget. I am always frustrated when folks say that they are going to cut out their latte to save money, but drive an expensive SUV 15 miles each way to work, or live in a $750,000 house down the block from a $300,000 one. 

    (Assume that the response is directed towards an author writing that point in a book, not at you!)

  • Real Estate Investor · Cochran, GA · Member since 2016 · 18 posts · 6 votes
    9y

    @Scott Trench - great point! It's not just the small purchases, it's the whole picture. I have found that it comes down to being intentional with expenditures, and not just going by day after day in autopilot like so many people do. 

  • Investor · Coplay, PA · Member since 2015 · 404 posts · 315 votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Mark F.:

    @Scott Trench Respectfully, you're obviously entitled to your opinion, but I think you missed the broader point I was trying to make here. I wasn't implying that your "latte is keeping you poor" or that buying coffee will lead to a destitute retirement. I also wasn't minimizing the importance of cutting back on big ticket expenses like housing or taxes where possible. 

    The point I WAS making is this: overindulgence in seemingly small expenses could have a big impact on your future financial security. The whole point of my post was that a little extra financial discipline can pay off in a big way down the line. That's all. I don't know see how that point would seem "ridiculous".

    I thought the point I was making was a very positive one. Just very small adjustments now in your financial life can payoff huge in the future. 

     The small changes you wrote about are the changes that lead to the big expense changes. Most people are not going to change the big expenses before the little changes in spending, unless the bank or bankruptcy steps in.

  • Investor · Orange County, CA · Member since 2009 · 230 posts · 138 votes
    9y

    @Scott Trench  No worries! :)  Though small purchases are not always a material part of the budget, sometimes they are. Individually they may be small, but all together they can add up to a lot. There are a lot of people out there with expensive cable packages they don't watch, gym memberships they haven't used in months, car insurance they haven't shopped around in 10 years, etc. All those are small budget leaks that, if left unaddressed, can add up to a relatively big number that's a significant drag on the finances. 

    Over the last two years, my wife and I managed to chop around $400 out of our monthly expenses by shopping a few things around and being a little more disciplined in a few other areas. We live in an expensive area and that's good money that can now be invested in our financial future. And the great thing is this: it had minimal impact on our lifestyle. I'm all for getting the same lifestyle for less, if possible! :)

    I've seen the latte concept in a few books as well, but for some reason it struck me a little more this time - probably because (being the computer nerd that I am) I actually busted out an Excel spreadsheet and ran the numbers. 

    Again, chopping out little expenses here and there isn't the foundation of a good financial plan, but it can certainly help move your plan along a little faster. I was surprised how so little can do so much over the long term and thought I would pass it along on BP. 

    Merry Christmas, all!

  • Specialist · Honolulu, HI · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Mark F.:

    I just finished Money: Master the Game by Tony Robbins. Great book! 

    One part that really hit me in the book was the long-term opportunity cost of "little" splurges like regularly hitting Starbucks or eating out. Relatively small monthly expenses may not seem like a lot of money, but they can represent a huge opportunity cost from the standpoint of retirement savings.  

    For example, let's assume a guy named Joe spends just $5 every morning at Starbucks. Assuming 30 days in the month (to keep it simple), that adds up to $150 a month spent on coffee.   

    What if Joe trimmed his Starbucks habit back to a max of $50/month and faithfully invested the $100 savings in his IRA? Assuming just a 5% rate of return on the money, this is what his former Starbucks money would turn into decades down the line:

    • 20 years: $41,103.37
    • 30 years: $83,225.86
    • 40 years: $152,602.02

    Wow. Assuming Joe is in his 20s or 30s, he could potentially add well over $100K to his retirement net worth simply by trimming back his Starbucks habit. 

    Robbins makes the point that there's nothing wrong with spending money on things you enjoy, but keep it within reason. It's important to remember the long-term cost of overspending on little indulgences. 

    Even if you can't give up the Starbucks or eating out habit, it's probably worth it to see if you can get a better deal on your cable package, car insurance, cell phone plan, etc., then invest the difference into your retirement savings. As you can see (and as Robbins points out), a little discipline today can go a long ways toward a better future in retirement.

     Absolutely do not agree. Doesn't Tony address in that book that IRAs and 401ks are some of the biggest scams?

    Its not a habit, its called enjoying life. Every time I see these 20 or 30 year projections, I can tell those writing that do not work in the medical field. Every day, good people get sick and die. 20 30 40 years, are you really banking on that?

    To answer your question: ~$150-200 a month :) If that is a problem, just increase your income. Problem solved!

  • Real Estate Broker · Malone, NY · Member since 2013 · 345 posts · 70 votes
    9y
    Although I absolutely respect the logic behind this, I've got to say that the $5/day for coffee isn't the problem - and instead the better play would be to focus on increasing your income. Also, who knows, maybe being in a Starbucks will net you a deal or an opportunity that you can't get making coffee at home! :)
  • Wilmington, DE · Member since 2016 · 116 posts · 59 votes
    9y

    I mean, you can technically car pool, take public transportation, ride a bike, or walk.. so we should probably all sell our cars too.

  • Rental Property Investor · East Wenatchee, WA · Member since 2014 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
    9y

    To brew your own coffee and brown bag your lunch are my first go-to's when advising the broke on here.  It's a mindset. Change the little things to change your life. 

    Once there, they may move up to slashing/selling the car payment and thus stop trying to impress people they'll never meet.  

    I don't do Starbucks because I have better things to do than wait in line.  Like take a nap.  Schultz doesn't need the money anyway.  I'll buy at local bistros and cafe's with real people out there in the trenches of business.  Cheers!

  • Real Estate Investor · Shelton, WA · Member since 2013 · 369 posts · 639 votes
    9y

    Starbucks?! ... Not nearly as much as my Bourbon "hobby" or my charitable donations to dancing single mothers :) Everyone has their vices. Whats the point of doing all this if you don't spend some of it on the things you enjoy? 

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    9y

    @Steve Vaughan   its funny we all have our things. .I simply will not buy a 3 dollar cup of coffee..

    I have a kurig machine and buy the cups at Costco for 17 to 30 cents a cup.. problem solved.

    Although I totally get it when the folks that work on a hourly wage.. spend 10 bucks a day on coffee

    and if they smoke another 7 a day on cigs   and if they drink another 200 a month on booze etc etc.

  • Rental Property Investor · East Wenatchee, WA · Member since 2014 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:

    @Steve Vaughan   its funny we all have our things. .I simply will not buy a 3 dollar cup of coffee..

    I have a kurig machine and buy the cups at Costco for 17 to 30 cents a cup.. problem solved.

    Although I totally get it when the folks that work on a hourly wage.. spend 10 bucks a day on coffee

    and if they smoke another 7 a day on cigs   and if they drink another 200 a month on booze etc etc.

     You're right, Jay, you won't buy a $3 cup of coffee.  It's $6 for a muy mini vente no foam no cafe latte!

    Whatever they're called anyway.  I hear ya, bud.  Merry Christmas to ya!

  • Joel OwensBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
    9y

    Sometimes I get a caramel frappacino from Starbucks once a week. Not daily because of the money but because it would pack on some serious pounds! lol

    Everything comes down to living within your means. If you make 100k live like you make 40k and invest the rest. If you make 200k you can live like you make 80k and invest the rest etc.

    I can live a much higher lifestyle than I do but I am content.

    All this stuff about 40 years from now means squat. If you pass away before then you never see it. Sure plan for your retirement but don't suffer for 40 years to get there. That 150,000 to retirement will not be near anywhere close to 150,000 40 years from now with inflation.

    All those guys selling these books are getting rich off of the people buying the stuff........... : ) 

    The reality is if you make 30k, 40k, 50k a year it is not impossible to become a millionaire but it is much,much tougher. When you own a business, are a doctor etc. making 500k a year or more it gets much easier to invest and take advantage of opportunities for big equity gains.

    If you do not have that then many go the syndication route to get passive investors who do to go in on projects with them.

    You can only cut so much and people need to work just as smart and hard to find ways to make more income.

    I believe in plan for tomorrow but enjoy yourself today (within your means and within reason).   

  • Mark S.Pro Member
    Rental Property Investor · KY · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 537 votes
    9y
    No way you're getting cups that cheap at Costco. Usually Ollie's has better deals, but still in the $.30s range. Costco is usually between $.30s - $.50s, but I get your point.
  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    9y

    @Steve Vaughan  although I do spend 5 to 6 bucks a gallon on Av Gas  LOL and a fill up is 82 gallons or 400 to 500 bucks a pop !!!... but what the heck... can't take it with ya

  • Consultant · Dana Point, CA · Member since 2015 · 48 posts · 7 votes
    9y

    I believe that life is meant to be lived (within reason, of course). I don't see any harm in getting starbucks every now and again. The people who eat out every day for breakfast, lunch, and dinner and drain their bank accounts twice a month waiting for their next paycheck simply don't have a good grasp on their finances. Good personal finance skills and money habits are habits for a reason. They're a skill, and it takes work to get to a place where you are able to not only live comfortably, but save and invest for your future as well. It all comes down working towards and finding what works for you.

    I must say, it's always a bit eye-opening seeing how much those small amounts can compound to over time, but I guess that's why people like Tony Robbins use them as examples in their books!

  • Joel OwensBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
    9y

    Marketing guru's "sell the sizzle". It's what brings the people in and puts a$$es in the seats to sell programs.

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