Liable for tenant’s high hotspot cost due to internet setup delay?

Nashville, TN · Member since 2015 · 4 posts · 2 votes

My tenant wants a refund of $175 for a lapse of 4 days without internet for the cost she incurred by using her mobile hotspot. The wifi was scheduled to be set up on the day of her move in but because of a strike at AT&T, they weren't able to come until several days later. The contract states that internet is included in her rent.

Am I actually obligated to cover the full amount? I’d like to help her out with a part of it, but the full $175 seems high. Any advice on handling this?

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Greg ScottPro Member

Rental Property Investor · SE Michigan · Member since 2014 · 4k+ posts · 6k+ votes

You are not required to reimburse residents for their poor decisions.

Let's take it to the extreme. Your resident might say they had to fly all over the country to attend meetings in person since their internet was out. Would you reimburse for that? No.

She could have chosen a much cheaper solution, like go to a coffee shop. Or, she could have asked you about it in advance to reimburse hot spot costs. Realistically, you probably should reimburse her for the value of the internet you owned. If internet is $60 per month, in a 30 day month, you should reimburse here $2 per day or $8.

If you choose to offer her more as a customer satisfaction olive branch, that is up to you.

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Greg ScottPro Member
Rental Property Investor · SE Michigan · Member since 2014 · 4k+ posts · 6k+ votes
1y
You are not required to reimburse residents for their poor decisions.

Let's take it to the extreme. Your resident might say they had to fly all over the country to attend meetings in person since their internet was out. Would you reimburse for that? No.

She could have chosen a much cheaper solution, like go to a coffee shop. Or, she could have asked you about it in advance to reimburse hot spot costs. Realistically, you probably should reimburse her for the value of the internet you owned. If internet is $60 per month, in a 30 day month, you should reimburse here $2 per day or $8.

If you choose to offer her more as a customer satisfaction olive branch, that is up to you.
11 Reply
Kevin Sobilo
Realtor · Hanover Twp, PA · Member since 2018 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
1y
Quote from @Greg Scott:

You are not required to reimburse residents for their poor decisions.

Let's take it to the extreme. Your resident might say they had to fly all over the country to attend meetings in person since their internet was out. Would you reimburse for that? No.

She could have chosen a much cheaper solution, like go to a coffee shop. Or, she could have asked you about it in advance to reimburse hot spot costs. Realistically, you probably should reimburse her for the value of the internet you owned. If internet is $60 per month, in a 30 day month, you should reimburse here $2 per day or $8.

If you choose to offer her more as a customer satisfaction olive branch, that is up to you.

@Greg Scott, not necessarily true. Some jobs require that when working remotely that they are at home and not some other place like a public place for security reasons. You don't want people peeking over their shoulder seeing someone's personal private information for example.

@Kevin James, that said think about it this way. If the internet service goes out during a storm for 3 days will they also realistically expect you to pay them? You are responsible to PAY for the service, the provider is responsible for providing it. You met your obligation.
I would explain this CLEARLY to them so that they understand you are not responsible to guaranteeing them a perfect experience. That's one of the reasons tenants should have renters insurance because it covers things that may go wrong but where the landlord isn't responsible to compensate them.
If they understand that I am not responsible, I may provide a small rent credit as a token gesture. Maybe something like $25.
6 Reply
Matthew Paul
Severna Park, MD · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
1y
Unless you caused AT&T to go on strike , tell them no .
2 Reply
Greg M.
Rental Property Investor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 5k+ votes
1y
$175 for 4 days of internet. That's crazy.
You did your job by contracting for the internet to start when she moved in. You cannot be held responsible for things outside your control. At worst, you're responsible for 4 days of YOUR cost for the internet, so a couple of dollars.
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Greg ScottPro Member
Rental Property Investor · SE Michigan · Member since 2014 · 4k+ posts · 6k+ votes
1y
Quote from @Kevin Sobilo:
not necessarily true. Some jobs require that when working remotely that they are at home and not some other place like a public place for security reasons. You don't want people peeking over their shoulder seeing someone's personal private information for example.

Kevin:
I still disagree with you. I've sat in my car for conference calls, using wifi from a local business.
2 Reply
Kevin Sobilo
Realtor · Hanover Twp, PA · Member since 2018 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
1y
Quote from @Greg Scott:

Quote from @Kevin Sobilo:
not necessarily true. Some jobs require that when working remotely that they are at home and not some other place like a public place for security reasons. You don't want people peeking over their shoulder seeing someone's personal private information for example.

Kevin:
I still disagree with you. I've sat in my car for conference calls, using wifi from a local business.

You disagreed but didn't say anything that was pertinent. You seem to think because you got away with doing something wrong and didn't get fired that its all ok. So, if the tenant did that and got fired, you are the landlord would compensate them for the loss of their job?

With my w2 job, the agreement we sign to work outside the office specifies that we will work at a designated specific approved location (our home). We even agree that the employer can come inspect that location for certain things if they choose. Working from another location is not at option.
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Greg ScottPro Member
Rental Property Investor · SE Michigan · Member since 2014 · 4k+ posts · 6k+ votes
1y
Quote from @Kevin Sobilo:

You disagreed but didn't say anything that was pertinent. You seem to think because you got away with doing something wrong and didn't get fired that its all ok. So, if the tenant did that and got fired, you are the landlord would compensate them for the loss of their job?

There is nothing in the original post that stated the resident's situation was anything like yours. My employer never had such a requirement. Declaring that I did something unethical, with intent, was an poor assumption.

My son has worked remotely in IT for years, and none of his employers have had that sort of requirement you do. Your specific job requirements appear to be an outlier. This resident likely had more options.
My point is residents will make bad decisions and try to blame someone else. We recently did a sealcoat project at one of our properties and a resident walked across the wet sealcoat. They called the office asking for us to buy them new shoes.

1 Reply
Kevin Sobilo
Realtor · Hanover Twp, PA · Member since 2018 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
1y
Quote from @Greg Scott:

Quote from @Kevin Sobilo:

You disagreed but didn't say anything that was pertinent. You seem to think because you got away with doing something wrong and didn't get fired that its all ok. So, if the tenant did that and got fired, you are the landlord would compensate them for the loss of their job?

There is nothing in the original post that stated the resident's situation was anything like yours. My employer never had such a requirement. Declaring that I did something unethical, with intent, was an poor assumption.

My son has worked remotely in IT for years, and none of his employers have had that sort of requirement you do. Your specific job requirements appear to be an outlier. This resident likely had more options.
My point is residents will make bad decisions and try to blame someone else. We recently did a sealcoat project at one of our properties and a resident walked across the wet sealcoat. They called the office asking for us to buy them new shoes.

Your response was in response to mind where I talked about why an employer would require something like that. So, I didn't assume you were talking about doing something unethical that is what you were saying. You made no other point in your response other than you got away with doing it. If that isn't what you meant to say, you really needed to elaborate and say something more coherent.
Working in IT would be less likely to have that requirement as you are less likely to be dealing with people's personal private information. So, that is not a good indicator. Also, my employer is massive so this requirement is certainly not an outlier.
If you read my response you will see I agree the poster is not responsible, but not for the reasons to cited.
BTW, in your example since you didn't mention having signs up about the sealcoat (the one very pertinent detail), then of course your office would likely be liable to pay for their shoes. If you erroneously forgot to mention the signs, then you can see how I didn't make an assumption about you doing something unethical in your previous example as you have a habit of not making clear points and including the most pertinent information.
0 Reply
Gregory SchwartzBusiness Member
Rental Property Investor · College Station, TX · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
1y
Sounds like she should take this up with AT&T. As a landlord be symethetic to the tenants, and use your available resources to assist when they need it, but do not give into demands for situations outside of your control.
For example, when the power goes out during a storm and a tenant buys a generator, do you pay for the generator and the gas? NOPE.
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Chris SeveneyBusiness Member
Moderator
Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes
1y
Quote from @Kevin James:

My tenant wants a refund of $175 for a lapse of 4 days without internet for the cost she incurred by using her mobile hotspot. The wifi was scheduled to be set up on the day of her move in but because of a strike at AT&T, they weren't able to come until several days later. The contract states that internet is included in her rent.
Am I actually obligated to cover the full amount? I’d like to help her out with a part of it, but the full $175 seems high. Any advice on handling this?

Why would you include internet in rent? If your lease includes it, then yeah you probably should cover it but why on this earth would you ever ever include internet in a lease.
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Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
Moderator
Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
1y
Quote from @Kevin James:

Do you own AT&T? If not, then you are not responsible for the delay.
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Gregory SchwartzBusiness Member
Rental Property Investor · College Station, TX · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
1y
Quote from @Chris Seveney:

Quote from @Kevin James:

My tenant wants a refund of $175 for a lapse of 4 days without internet for the cost she incurred by using her mobile hotspot. The wifi was scheduled to be set up on the day of her move in but because of a strike at AT&T, they weren't able to come until several days later. The contract states that internet is included in her rent.
Am I actually obligated to cover the full amount? I’d like to help her out with a part of it, but the full $175 seems high. Any advice on handling this?

Why would you include internet in rent? If your lease includes it, then yeah you probably should cover it but why on this earth would you ever ever include internet in a lease.

I agree. 15 years ago including internet in rent was a great way to stand out. Today, not so much.
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0 Reply
Matthew M.
New to Real Estate · Member since 2024 · 7 posts · 1 vote
1y
Quote from @Kevin Sobilo:

Quote from @Greg Scott:

Quote from @Kevin Sobilo:

You disagreed but didn't say anything that was pertinent. You seem to think because you got away with doing something wrong and didn't get fired that its all ok. So, if the tenant did that and got fired, you are the landlord would compensate them for the loss of their job?

There is nothing in the original post that stated the resident's situation was anything like yours. My employer never had such a requirement.  Declaring that I did something unethical, with intent, was an poor assumption.

My son has worked remotely in IT for years, and none of his employers have had that sort of requirement you do. Your specific job requirements appear to be an outlier. This resident likely had more options.
My point is residents will make bad decisions and try to blame someone else. We recently did a sealcoat project at one of our properties and a resident walked across the wet sealcoat.  They called the office asking for us to buy them new shoes.

Your response was in response to mind where I talked about why an employer would require something like that. So, I didn't assume you were talking about doing something unethical that is what you were saying. You made no other point in your response other than you got away with doing it. If that isn't what you meant to say, you really needed to elaborate and say something more coherent.
Working in IT would be less likely to have that requirement as you are less likely to be dealing with people's personal private information. So, that is not a good indicator. Also, my employer is massive so this requirement is certainly not an outlier.
If you read my response you will see I agree the poster is not responsible, but not for the reasons to cited.
BTW, in your example since you didn't mention having signs up about the sealcoat (the one very pertinent detail), then of course your office would likely be liable to pay for their shoes. If you erroneously forgot to mention the signs, then you can see how I didn't make an assumption about you doing something unethical in your previous example as you have a habit of not making clear points and including the most pertinent information.
Kevin, I disagree with you. Mainly because you remind me of the unsavory individuals I have had the displeasure of meeting.

You talk too much but make very little sense; you are quick to criticize and you have the stink of gaslighting about you. I don't trust you or your opinions from the moment I saw your first posts on this forum. I just wanted you to know that yet another person sees who you are.
1 Reply
Bud Gaffney
Rental Property Investor · Boston, MA · Member since 2019 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
1y
pro rate it. pay her for the 4 days
0 Reply
Roger D Jones
Member since 2023 · 178 posts · 122 votes
1y
All of you, in all your wealth, pressed shirts and fancy headshots squealing about $175. Just explain to her you can't cover every utility outage, then credit her the $175. Be a human being first, a landlord second and an investor third. Your sunrises will be a little bit brighter.
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Alecia LovelessPro Member
Member since 2019 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
1y
@Kevin James I would prorate it to your cost.
And in the future the less utilities you provide to your tenants the better.
0 Reply
Henry T.
Member since 2022 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
1y
Quote from @Roger D Jones:

All of you, in all your wealth, pressed shirts and fancy headshots squealing about $175. Just explain to her you can't cover every utility outage, then credit her the $175. Be a human being first, a landlord second and an investor third. Your sunrises will be a little bit brighter.

Whatdya mean, all of our wealth and high pressed shirts? I live in a tent by the river with a nice little otter, and don't even own a shirt. Gee! This is a matter of taking responsibility for yourself and stupid decisions. If there was an expectation of reimbursement then there should have been a discussion before moving in about money owed in the event of (whatever)?? I love how everybody has their hand out when things don't go their way. Real class. Buck up, find alternatives, research before you leap, be smart. Off to such a great start(not), I'd have 2nd thoughts about this tenant.
4 Reply
Gregory SchwartzBusiness Member
Rental Property Investor · College Station, TX · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
1y
@Roger D Jones if the power goes out and all the food in her fridge spoils. Will you also write a check for $400? The point is you have to have a policy that holds true across all tenants and all situations.
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Bill B.
Investor · Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 10k+ votes
1y
How come nobody is talking about the amount in question? I have a cellphone with unlimited 5g through AT&T. It costs me $50/ PER MONTH and I can use it as a hotspot at no additional charge.
How do you come up with $60/PER DAY as a hot spot charge?
4 Reply
Adam BartomeoBusiness Member
Real Estate Broker · Cape Coral, FL · Member since 2015 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
1y
What a joke! So if you had electric included but there was a black out, would you refund here for getting a generator?
Whether it is included in the rent or not you cannot coverage everything that can possibly happen in the world and you DEFINITELY don't want to set this type of precedent. This type of tenant will walk all over you in the future if you don't stop it now.
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Chris Grenzig
Property Manager · Orlando, FL · Member since 2016 · 479 posts · 277 votes
1y
@Kevin James I agree with @Adam Bartomeo's point and I think it illustrates it perfectly. Just because the cost of the utility is included, doesn't mean you can control if it works or doesn't work. They could have gone to the library for free or tried to figure out other things.
Also, you want to set precedence up front. I wouldn't reimburse for anything but apologize for the inconvenience but it is not something within your control.
I would advise in the future to not include internet and utilities for this exact reason if you are able to.
2 Reply
Melanie ThomasBusiness Member
Real Estate Broker · San Antonio · Member since 2022 · 1k+ posts · 489 votes
1y
I wouldn’t recommend agreeing to reimburse, as it could lead to a wave of additional reimbursement requests. The tenant chose to use a hot spot rather than opting for a location with free Wi-Fi. Good luck & happy investing!
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Melanie ThomasBusiness Member
Real Estate Broker · San Antonio · Member since 2022 · 1k+ posts · 489 votes
1y
I wouldn’t recommend agreeing to reimburse, as it could lead to a wave of additional reimbursement requests. The tenant chose to use a hot spot rather than opting for a location with free Wi-Fi. Good luck & happy investing!
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Arvand SabetianBusiness Member
Member since 2024 · 62 posts · 21 votes
1y
As others have stated, you aren't required to reimburse tenants for hotspot costs. If you're looking to help out that would be on your own accord. It would definitely help build trust and rapport with your tenant, but if it's not defined in the lease agreement you aren't on the hook for that.

If you reimburse now, you may be opening the door for future reimbursement requests in the future.

This doesn't meant to ignore reimbursement requests such as this, but it's something to consider.
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John WilliamsBusiness Member
Property Manager · Clarksville, TN · Member since 2018 · 443 posts · 210 votes
1y
Quote from @Kevin James:

My tenant wants a refund of $175 for a lapse of 4 days without internet for the cost she incurred by using her mobile hotspot. The wifi was scheduled to be set up on the day of her move in but because of a strike at AT&T, they weren't able to come until several days later. The contract states that internet is included in her rent.
Am I actually obligated to cover the full amount? I’d like to help her out with a part of it, but the full $175 seems high. Any advice on handling this?

The real lesson here is to not include additional amenities built into rent (like Wifi). I know that doesn't help you now, just a reflection...
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