Why is it so hard to find a good property manager?
Matt SuttonBusiness Member
Realtor · Orlando, FL · Member since 2018 · 3 posts · 2 votes
Berger Realty & Investments, Inc515 Reviews
Why is it so hard to find a good property manager?
Most Popular Reply
Drew SygitBusiness Member
Property Manager · Royal Oak, MI · Member since 2012 · 12k+ posts · 9k+ votesWe have more challenges with inexperienced investors than experienced ones.
Many newbies are clueless about the realities of rentals😒
The 2nd biggest challenge is with investors transistioning from DIY management to hiring a PMC.
- Some think they're hiring a personal assistant that should be available 24/7😝
- Some can't seem to grasp that while they may have done some things better than a PMC, a good PMC will actually do more things better than them.
- Others want to micro manage everything because they think they know better.
On the other side, many PMCs aren't really running a business. All they know how to do is put out today's fires and MAYBE avoid tomorrow's. They also seem to communicate as little as possible and not very thoroughly when they do😣
Logical Property Management4.9450 Reviews
22 Replies
- Property Manager · Covington, KY · Member since 2021 · 27 posts · 27 votes7mo
Also in property management but from my side of the table, the biggest gap I see is managers underestimating how much trust is built (or destroyed) by communication and transparency. Investors don’t just want rent collected; they want to understand what’s happening with their asset and why decisions are being made the way they are.
- 7moDrew SygitBusiness MemberProperty Manager · Royal Oak, MI · Member since 2012 · 12k+ posts · 9k+ votes
We have more challenges with inexperienced investors than experienced ones.
Many newbies are clueless about the realities of rentals😒
The 2nd biggest challenge is with investors transistioning from DIY management to hiring a PMC.
- Some think they're hiring a personal assistant that should be available 24/7😝
- Some can't seem to grasp that while they may have done some things better than a PMC, a good PMC will actually do more things better than them.
- Others want to micro manage everything because they think they know better.On the other side, many PMCs aren't really running a business. All they know how to do is put out today's fires and MAYBE avoid tomorrow's. They also seem to communicate as little as possible and not very thoroughly when they do😣
Logical Property Management4.9450 Reviews - Realtor · Orlando, FL · Member since 2018 · 3 posts · 2 votes6mo
Couldn't agree more. Communication, transparency, and unrealistic expectations can make or break a business. Drew, what do you see the biggest difference being between a PMC putting out fires and one that's running a real business?
Berger Realty & Investments, Inc515 Reviews- 6moDrew SygitBusiness MemberProperty Manager · Royal Oak, MI · Member since 2012 · 12k+ posts · 9k+ votes
Quote from @Matt Sutton:
Couldn't agree more. Communication, transparency, and unrealistic expectations can make or break a business. Drew, what do you see the biggest difference being between a PMC putting out fires and one that's running a real business?
Written systems and procedures.
Logical Property Management4.9450 Reviews
- Honolulu, HI · Member since 2008 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes6mo
As a retired Residential PM, NOT an owner of the company or rentals, I have had quite a few different Client Owners over 30 years. I always strive to just shoot straight with them. They don't always like it, and, a very few fired us because of that, but far more stayed with us for many years. I had a couple of Clients that, on their own accord, changed management companies soon after I did, because of my systems, all around operational knowledge, and, frankly, trust.
Through all the years, and with anywhere from 100 - 800 units under my oversight, I never provided my cell number to anyone but Vendors, Owners, and of course Staff. Tenants were instructed from Day 1, only call office phone, leaving voice mail if no live answer (our systems all had an "after hours" emergency function), or email. All were checked whenever I returned to my desk, and responded to in some manner (either scheduling a service call or informing when I would have a complete response for them) within one business day (or less for the actual emergencies, obviously). Depending on the company I was working for, we had in-house Maintenance Staff, which, properly staffed with competent people, is ideal; or, I used a mix of Licensed Contractors and unlicensed Handymen for specific tasks, or in cases where Client Owners had preferred vendors (with appropriate release of our liability). When you fail to respond timely, you usually generate yet another call or email to take up more of your time.
Also, when considering whether to accept Management of a property, I insisted on at least a partial walk through of the property with the owner, and a full discussion of our Standards, Processes, and certain documents. When Owners want to limit spending to a ridiculous low amount, I remind them of the cost for a simple R & R of a toilet, or water heater, or refrigerator, and why we have to use licensed and insured vendors for the most part. I would require their maximum spend without approval to be an amount that would allow for that high of an expenditure, or, more simply (usually) maximum equal to one month rent, so we would not have to request funds back from them to handle a routine issue. I also clearly explained the laws with regard to dealing with actual emergencies (fire, flood, sudden major damage) as well as resolution timelines required. I will push the fact they need to have something significant for reserves if a major issue arises or if they are already aware of a needed roof replacement or other issues. I also don't hesitate to push for a reno if the unit is in poor condition. I lay out the expected increase in rents and property value, as well as the higher quality of Tenants that will be attracted, leading to a long period of minimal expenses and turnovers, and far fewer headaches for all involved.
When I perform a walk through with an Owner, if a Tenant is present I just look and take some pics, then give the Owner my unbridled opinion and recommendations of what needs to be done, and why. Primarily, I advise them, I am lazy. I do not want properties or tenants that are crap. Owners need to provide clean, safe, secure units, and Tenants need to meet their obligations of paying on time and taking reasonable care of the Owners property. I also make it clear this has little to do with the income level of Tenants.
I developed my maintenance standards when I was handling over 100 Section 8 units in 1940 and 1950 detached homes and walk up apartments. It's all about attracting, approving, and managing the top 10% of the tenant pool for a particular rental tier. There are good and bad prospects in every tier. The bad rich ones are actually the worst! Finishes will vary from higher priced units, but that does not change the basic standard.
- Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes6mo
The first issue we have is getting across with the property management agreement. We completely understand that the property manager is not responsible for what the tenant does. But the majority of the agreements I see have the owner responsible and to indemnify the property manager even if the property manager is doing something illegal. So first I have to get through all the contracts. The next thing is, how do they track payments? We have seen some who use no third-party system and just send you money, but when you have ten doors with that property manager, you have no idea which one it is for or who is paying and who is not. If people want to get rich, my recommendation is to go start a property management company in a rural area. The quality is awful
7e investments53 Reviews- Honolulu, HI · Member since 2008 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes6moI understand your first concern, and, obviously without reading the specific document, I can only guess...and to be clear, I am not a lawyer, nor do I play one on the interwebs. BUT, having worked under multiple Management Agreements, across several companies, they were all fairly clear on the point. Bottom line, as you surmised, the Property Owner is ultimately responsible for ALL expenses. And, indeed, there is typically an indemnification paragraph, which may be less clear in some cases, but the intent is (or should be) that you, as Owner, will defend, with your attorney, at your cost and expense, the PM and their company against claims from others- Tenants, parties injured on the subject property, or injured by Tenants, their animals, a snowball fight...whatever. Indemnification does normally NOT apply to criminal activity by the PM or their direct employees.
Quote from @Chris Seveney:
The first issue we have is getting across with the property management agreement. We completely understand that the property manager is not responsible for what the tenant does. But the majority of the agreements I see have the owner responsible and to indemnify the property manager even if the property manager is doing something illegal. So first I have to get through all the contracts.
The next thing is, how do they track payments? We have seen some who use no third-party system and just send you money, but when you have ten doors with that property manager, you have no idea which one it is for or who is paying and who is not. If people want to get rich, my recommendation is to go start a property management company in a rural area. The quality is awful
As to your second issue, the only acceptable answer here is they must use a "double entry" accounting system, which means for every debit, there is a corresponding entry for a credit. The "Chart of Accounts" of the accounting folks creates the categories, such as Rental Income, Security Deposit, Plumbing Expenses, Groundskeeping, etc.
The also should NOT have the same person processing "Accounts Payable" and "Accounts Receivable". A third person, the PM or Account Manager, should be processing all incoming invoices, reviewing them for correct job address and work performed, then coding them to a specific Account from the Chart of Accounts based on the primary, or split, line item expenses.
If the invoice is for a contract payment, an approved copy of the contract should be attached with it for backup documentation. Then they can be passed to Payables for actual payment. You should receive copies of the paid invoices (and job contracts) each month, and should review them immediately for any discrepancies. The payables clerk should keep the originals in your property files as their backup support.
If a Rent or other payment comes in, again they need to confirm the address it is for, and pass it to Receivables for accounting and depositing to the Operating Trust Fund. All Vendor payments are made from the Trust Fund, which has "Accounts" for each Property, or Owner. A deposit INTO the Trust Account of Rent as a Credit received for 123 main street, will be used later to pay the plumber, the taxes, and supplies only for 123 main street, and will show up as a debit under those respective accounts of plumbing, taxes, and supplies for that property. The payables clerk will reconcile the Trust bank account to confirm all deposits cleared, and they should be aware if any don't within a few days, generally, and should be following up with the Tenant to determine actual status. The PM has discretion to work a plan for payments, as long as late fees are handled per the Rental Agreement, and local laws are followed. Obviously they should make you aware, and the plan should be very short, but if reasonable, you do not want to initiate an actual Eviction, but you need to have strong reason not to. Keep in mind, typically, the Rental Agreement is between the PM Co. and the Tenant, not the property Owner and the Tenant (some jurisdictions vary).
Problems arise when only one person handles both Receivables and Payables. It is simple to create a fake Vendor or a Vendor with a slightly different spelling than one you are used to, and they can write checks, but everything appears to balance. Find out about the history and makeup of the accounting and office staff, make sure they are long term, and properly qualified.
Another area that will cause problems sooner or later, is how they handle rent payments in general, and actual cash. There should be no "field" collection of rents. All should, one way or another, go directly to the office, either with an online Portal, or auto-pay, mailed checks (be sure your late fee is clear in how that is determined), or by walk-ins. Personal checks and cash walk-ins are highly discouraged. Money Orders can be purchased at Convenience Stores, Wal-Mart, the Post Office, and other locations, and are much safer for all, if online is not possible.
Be sure the contract spells out when you will receive your monthly reports. It is not uncommon to get them after mid-month following the reporting month. Of course, online access is great, but still not a standard PM offering.
Beyond that, it is a matter of, most importantly, you as Owner actually reviewing the monthly reports within a very few days of receiving them; and, of having a clear understanding of how the reports fit together. It hurts you, and certainly does not help the PM if you only look at the reports a couple times a year...there is a lot that can go wrong when you don't pay attention to YOUR money.
I hope this helps... - 6moDrew SygitBusiness MemberProperty Manager · Royal Oak, MI · Member since 2012 · 12k+ posts · 9k+ votes
Quote from @Chris Seveney:
The first issue we have is getting across with the property management agreement. We completely understand that the property manager is not responsible for what the tenant does. But the majority of the agreements I see have the owner responsible and to indemnify the property manager even if the property manager is doing something illegal. So first I have to get through all the contracts. The next thing is, how do they track payments? We have seen some who use no third-party system and just send you money, but when you have ten doors with that property manager, you have no idea which one it is for or who is paying and who is not. If people want to get rich, my recommendation is to go start a property management company in a rural area. The quality is awful
Haven't seen any of our competitor PMAs requiring an owner to indemnify the PMC for illegal activities.
Most exclude illegal and fraud issues.
They do include indemnification for errors though, except gross negligence.
Logical Property Management4.9450 Reviews - Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes6mo
Quote from @Drew Sygit:
Quote from @Chris Seveney:
The first issue we have is getting across with the property management agreement. We completely understand that the property manager is not responsible for what the tenant does. But the majority of the agreements I see have the owner responsible and to indemnify the property manager even if the property manager is doing something illegal. So first I have to get through all the contracts. The next thing is, how do they track payments? We have seen some who use no third-party system and just send you money, but when you have ten doors with that property manager, you have no idea which one it is for or who is paying and who is not. If people want to get rich, my recommendation is to go start a property management company in a rural area. The quality is awful
Haven't seen any of our competitor PMAs requiring an owner to indemnify the PMC for illegal activities.
Most exclude illegal and fraud issues.
They do include indemnification for errors though, except gross negligence.
even that i push back on - especially gross negligence which is nearly impossible to prove.
I indemnify for my mistakes and they indemnify for theirs.
7e investments53 Reviews - 2moPeter MckernanBusiness MemberResidential Real Estate Agent · Irvine, CA · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
I think this is the way to get rich for sure, setup shop in a rural area and be actually good. I have heard so many times where people are getting a manager that is not responding, not sending them money and so on. It's wild! This could go for good contractors too.
The McKernan Group4.954 Reviews
- 6moJames JonesPro MemberInvestor · Collierville, TN 38017 · Member since 2017 · 589 posts · 445 votes
Most property managers get one thing wrong. They manage tasks, not assets.
If I am hiring today, here is what actually matters:
Clear underwriting standards
Show me your screening criteria in writing. Credit floor. Income multiple. Rental history requirements. No “it depends.”
Delinquency process
What happens on day 1 late? Day 5? Day 10? When do you file? I want a system, not emotion.
Vendor controls
Do you bid large jobs? Do you mark up? How do you prevent scope creep? How do you document before and after?
Communication cadence
I do not want random updates. I want structured reporting. Monthly owner statements. Vacancy updates weekly. Bad news early.
Asset mindset
Are you advising on rent increases, CapEx timing, and lease strategy? Or just forwarding emails?
Green flags:
Proactive rent comps before lease expiration.
Photos with every turnover.
Hard conversations about bad tenants.
Clean financials that reconcile.
Red flags:
Overpromising rent.
Fear of eviction.
Vague answers about process.
High turnover on their own team.
The best managers think like operators. The bad ones think like customer service reps.
Trust comes from systems, not personality.
- Property Manager · Fort Worth, TX · Member since 2014 · 77 posts · 29 votes2mo
After 30 years managing single-family homes, here's what I've learned... the good ones aren't hiding, they're just rare because most companies optimize for keeping owners quiet instead of keeping them informed. What earns trust isn't a slick pitch... it's transparency you can actually see, like zero markups on maintenance and a real person who calls you back the same day. When an owner can read every invoice and knows exactly what they're paying for, the relationship stops feeling like a gamble. If I were hiring, I'd ask one question: "Show me how you handle a $4,000 repair"... the answer tells you everything.
- Member since 2018 · 3 posts · 7 votes2moWhen I invest in a new area, one of the major costs is hiring and firing managers until I find good one. I expect the following: Good communication (on repairs, local rent trends, professional advice), follow up on issues to make sure they get resolved (if I have to stay on top of the manager to finish something, why do I need them). Unfortunately, I have discovered most managers have an employee mindset so they will say when there is an issue but they won't solve the problem unless I stay on them. I bring the issue up to the owners and they tend to blow me off in which case, do I fire them or is the other new manager worse? As an example, I had a vacancy and asked the manger for their advice on rental pricing. The property sat for 2 months and I check on my own to see what the local going rent was. It turns out their advice was way too high vs going rent so I told them to lower the rent and it was rented in a week. I can understand how owner's holding managers hands is annoying but it's because of behavior such as this that make me not trust my manager and feel compelled to micro-manage them. I assumed the manager would revisit the listing weekly to make sure we don't need to adjust anything, I was wrong they set it and forget it unless I stay on them. Now for the good news, I found an awesome manager in Texas who am very happy with. My advice to other owners is to hire and fire until you find a good one, they are out there but you have to search for them.
- 2moGarrett CrosbyPro MemberReal Estate Agent · Los Angeles, United States · Member since 2021 · 392 posts · 162 votes
Good question, Matt. As an investor with rentals in multiple states, I've gone through my share of property managers — good and bad. Here's what I've found actually matters:
Communication is everything. Not just "we collected rent" emails, but real updates. If something breaks, I want to know what happened, what the fix is, what it costs, and when it'll be done. Managers who go quiet until there's a problem are a red flag.
Honesty over comfort. The best PM I've worked with told me upfront when a tenant I liked was a risk based on their screening. She was right. The ones I've had the most trouble with were trying to keep me happy in the short term instead of giving me honest feedback.
Speed on maintenance. Deferred maintenance kills cash flow and tenant relationships. I want a manager who has reliable vendors and moves quickly, not someone who lets a $200 fix turn into a $2,000 problem.
Where I look: BiggerPockets is actually really good for this, especially referrals from other investors in the same market. I also ask local investor groups and pay attention to reviews over a long period (not just recent ones).
The interview question that separates good from great: "Walk me through how you handled a tough tenant situation." How they answer tells you almost everything about their communication style, their judgment, and whether they'll actually advocate for you.
- Investor · Longmont, CO · Member since 2016 · 13 posts · 3 votes2mo
I’ve worked with 5 property managers over the years. 4 of them were horrible for all the common reasons investors complain about. Such as
- they’re in this business for themselves not their clients and when there is a conflict of interests which there will always be at some point, they act in their own interests at the expense of their clients. Which reveals how little they know about business and how it works. There aren’t many barriers to entry to property management and it can be very profitable so its not surprising you’d run into amateurs pretending to be effective.
- they nickel and dime and try to monetize every single thing they do. Again, poor business judgement. It’s a short term way to make money and a long term way to lose clients.
- they take on too many clients and don’t have the resources or chops to manage all the work. And then they hire cheap labor who make matters worse.All of the problems IMO flow back to square pegs and round holes. They’re in the right business for their needs but the wrong one for their clients who are relying on them to make their lives easier.
I agree some clients are probably a nightmare but using this as an excuse to provide poor service in your business is yet another example of poor judgement and amateur thinking.
The one property manager i rate is night and day different to everyone else. Shes there for me. She tries to save me money and feels bad when she has to spend it. She’s competent, available and attentive. And the result is i pay her more than she asks for and promote her to everyone i know. She doesn’t have any fancy degrees and would assume bigger pockets means someone with big pants. But she has better business skills and judgment than the other amateurs i worked With who all talked a big game but delivered woefully.
- Reston, VA · Member since 2011 · 8 posts · 0 votes2mo
I have yet to find a good property manager or a company for that matter. After having managed my two properties solo for three years from abroad with no problems I came to a point of having to need someone to handle the rental by showing the place, screening the applicants, etc. So I hired this one guy per my friend's recommendation. Much to my chagrin, this guy I hired turned out to be a complete crook: he hired one of the tenants to do the yard care, and when I came the lawn was overgrown and full of trash as was the whole house. Upshot: I paid for nothing and the guy refused to give the money back and quit shortly after. He never produced proper accounting either.
Years later, on a different track, I decided to go with a PMC for my other property, a condo. Having passed the initial niceties, they began charging me for all kinds of things, specifically, they claimed that the place needs “light cleaning” prior to tenants’ move-in citing their procedure. My answer was to cancel that because for one it had been thoroughly cleaned a month before when it was vacant, and then the future tenants volunteered to do another cleaning to top it off. The PMC went ahead with the cleaning anyway. I am disputing the charge now, but they are in charge of the money coming in and out. So, we shall see what’s going to happen.
- 2moAdam BartomeoBusiness MemberReal Estate Broker · Cape Coral, FL · Member since 2015 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
To answer the title question:
There is a very low barrier of entry to property management and there is a high demand for property management. This allows anyone with a heartbeat to manage a property. There are a lot of fakers out there that pollute the industry with their lack of knowledge, ethics, and systems.
Bartomeo Property Management4.7150 Reviews - Investor · Gulf Coast · Member since 2026 · 37 posts · 13 votes2mo
Cause, it's usually more work than it's worth.
- Rental Property Investor · Denver, CO · Member since 2024 · 60 posts · 10 votes2mo
Not all property managers are created equal. It comes down to experience and training.
I'd never hire a property manager who doesn't own rental properties.Being a landlord has made me a much better property manager. Over the years, I've had landlord clients stay with the companies I built for more than a decade—without long-term contracts. I believe that's because our culture was built around tracking the KPIs that actually move the needle, communicating proactively, and consistently delivering results.
We've developed a proven system for helping property managers fill vacancies in 14 days or less, with an internal goal of no more than five days of vacancy per turnover in our own portfolio—including make-ready work.
I'd also look closely at their current rental listings. If they're consistently sitting on the market for 20+ days, I'd keep looking until you find something better.
- Honolulu, HI · Member since 2008 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes2mo
So, you're OK with your PM actually competing for the best applicants in your local tenant pool?
- Real Estate Broker · Laguna Beach, CA · Member since 2026 · 5 posts · 1 vote2mo
When dealing with furnished and vacation rentals, I’ve found the sticking point is not always whether the repair gets done. Sometimes it is the owner feeling like they have to follow up repeatedly for an update.
Trust can disappear pretty quickly if the owner has to ask twice. I'd want to know how a manager communicates when things hit a snag, especially when something is late or a guest has an issue that needs attention.
Great management gives the owner enough assurance that they do not feel out of the loop and also does not make every little thing feel like a problem. That is generally what sets apart a rent collector from a true property manager.
- Reston, VA · Member since 2011 · 8 posts · 0 votes2mo
It so happens that I just have had to let go of my PMC due to excessive costs of repairs, pest control and cleaning that surpassed two-month's rent. I came to realize that I could no longer afford their charges and cut my losses.
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