Surfaces-What do you like?

Question

I saw a other "discussion" between two old timers on BP and it got me thinking.....When some of us do renovations, we put in the toughest most durable products we can find, expecting they will stand up to the tenants.  Others, put in the cheapest and expect that it is disposable.

When you rehab an apartment, are you using tile or vinyl on the bath and kitchen floors?

If the place has hardwood floors, do you refinish them or put carpet in?

Lastly, do you tile the tub/shower surround or use a fiberglass insert?

Adam Logan · Answer

Sure.  My supplier has it in development but I thought it was released last week, my bad.  Theres 2 others that already have it out there, mighta been glas tech.  I am trying to remember the company I last saw who used it.  The refacing co who just started trading publicly on nyse.   Bathtub Doctor I think!  But I dont think they MAKE the materials, so its gotta be one of those 2 companies that supplies them.  Ill look around for you, there is maybe 10 companies and about 5 are awful and all are hard to find, so gimme a bit.  No msds or anything, but I will get what I can.  I am anxious to try it out.

Adam Logan · Answer

Well, here is one.  http://www.refinisherswarehouse.com/refinishing_coatings_glaz_weld.htm

Never tried it, I use a triple silane bonding agent.  I will wait and see JUST how  good this trend  is.  Everyones developing something like this, so it may be a fad, or it may be legit.  For now, thats the pnly one I could find.  It was in my newsletter where I had the details of the W.I.P from my supplier.  Duh!

Richard F. · Answer

Perhaps you can provide a link to the manufacturers spec sheets?

Adam Logan · Answer

Good points, BUT with the showers/tubs, surrounds are costly.  New products are out for us tub painters that now cause a MOLECULAR bond, that is, the paint will share an electron with the porcelain itself.  Supposedly, these MAY last many many years over the traditional mechanical  adhesion with acid.  Also, a few companies give forgiveness to investors.  My paint holds up about 5-6 years if your about trying to destroy it on purpose only!  10 years if you dont take noticeable care of it like you do a standard tub basically.  You should wax it real quick every 3 months.  I have investors that the tubs still look new after 3 years of tenants.  I buff them out for them if they are dull.  I grant them one extra paintjob free incase of a wearout.  Otherwise, 5 year warranty against peeling, lifting, etc.  so, 3-5 years, a free paintjob, another 3-5. youd have MAYBE spent 200 total for the first paintjob, and thats 6-10 yrs for 225  bucks ($150 in a hotel or apt!)!  Those surrounds are like 2k right?  if so, I could paint your tub for 100 years and youd be just hitting $2000 based on the way I deal with my prized investors hehe!!

Richard F. · Answer

The cultured marble is what most one piece vanity sinktops are made of. For shower surrounds, it basically comes in three panels. I'm not sure of the thickness of it, I have not seen a project in progress yet, only the finished job. The only seams are at the corners and the tub- low maintenance. It remains to be seen (by me) if the surface actually holds up as well as tile.

Yes, Armstrong Excelon is the product. Yes, the janitor's buffer is the equipment...with the proper pad and chemicals for stripping, and proper wax and polishing pad for getting the high gloss back. Even if some moron deeply gouges or somehow burns the tile, you can use a belt sander (with a somewhat light touch!) and get past the damage. You will have a divit, but it can be waxed up and blend in perfectly!

For larger rooms, I used to use a contrasting tile and make a checkerboard pattern (white tiles with blue flakes/blue tiles,white tiles with black flakes/black tiles, etc), or sometimes just an accent border. I like the lighter beige tiles for whole units, they really show nice, and they're very neutral:

http://www.armstrong.com/commflooringna/product_details_toolbox_magnify.jsp;jsessionid=72F2B1EBE7C2FFFC239C3F84E0A0BD1A.tomcat8?item_id=47142

8 times out of 10 when a tenant leaves, a broom and a wet mop makes it good as new again (IF you properly wax it on installation!)

When I managed 600+ units, we bought vct by the pallet and put it in nearly everything. If the installation surface is REALLY bad (or perhaps has lots of broken/missing asbestos tile that you don't want to deal with), just throw down (ok, fit and securely screw down) some 1/4" luan and you are good to go.

Scott Ficek · Answer

Beachbum-
Thanks for the reply.  Just for clairification:

When you say "cultured marble surround", you are NOT talking about a tile surround, but those surrounds you see in hotels?

I love VCT.  I put it in bathrooms and kitchens.  Are you referring to the commercial-grade one foot squares from Armstrong that you trowel on glue to put down (not self-stick)?  If so, what type of buffer are you talking about?  The one the janitor used in the hallways back in high school?

Michael Rossi · Answer

I wouldn't because tenants can destroy it in no time and you WILL be repairing and/or replacing it.  It's much easier and faster to just put in a new peice of carpet.

Good Luck,

Mike

Rich Schroeder · Answer

I understand this theory...but I sometimes come across deals on porcelein (sp?) tile...sometimes for $0.50-.60 /sq foot. Would you use that instead of carpet?  I would imagine it would last longer than a couple years. If it chips, no big deal.  If it breaks, I could replace for cheap.  Thoughts?
Thanks 
-Rich

Eric Wang · Answer

I prefer ceramic tile in the bathroom.   What tends to happen is tenants forget to close shower door or curtain all the way and water drips to the floor, overtime will cause termite damage.  Three of my units all had termite damage all in the bathroom.

Michael Rossi · Answer

In LOW INCOME rentals, I paint the floors if they are old wood floors.  When they move out, I paint them again (about 2 hours for an entire house).  If the floors MUST be covered because the wood is not in good condition, we only install carpet with no pad in kitchens and bathrooms.  Tenants will normally destroy vinyl in less than a year.  Ceramic tile is out of the question for low income rentals.   Carpet will normally last 2-3 years in a low income rental.  I do everything I can to keep it.  I'll spend an hour or two steam cleaning it myself.  If it is incredibly filthy, I'll have it professionally steam cleaned (about $100 for a 2 bedroom house).   When I feel that it absolutely can't be saved, I put in new carpet for 55 cents per square foot (Lowes).  I install all the carpet myself.  It takes about an hour per room to install a typical room.

Mike