Am I being too picky?

Question

A cleaning service is being paid to clean the house after the moveout. It has been painted, and I cleaned the floor grout, and many of the tiles. I went in Wed AM with the glass man, and saw that the stove drip pans and coils were in the sink, so the cleaner had been there. There were still areas that needed cleaned. 
I got a call at noon from the PM that the house was clean, and it was to be turned over to me, now. I told her it was not, and gave her a list, then said I'd go make a list for her. 
There's really a lot, including the entire refrigerator and kitchen, baths, showers, toilets, and most of the mini-blinds.
The floor has not been cleaned beyond what I did: there are areas of grease, dirt, and debris throughout the house, including along the walls. The tenants walked in grease for 5 years, and it got tracked everywhere. 
Is it not the cleaners job to clean the floors? The miniblinds?
and everything else? 
What is an acceptible level of cleaning for moveout? This is a nice, well maintained 3/2 house in a residential area.  Paying $180 for 1285 sq feet. There is no furniture in the house. 
ofgift

Account Closed · Answer

The management co takes (is supposed to take) care of that. I don't have a copy of that contract.  I was over there yesterday when the owner of the cleaning co came by. He couldn't see what I was talking about. 
"The refrigerator's clean." (until I pulled open the door seal grooves, had him run his hand over the shelves. 
He turned to the sink. These pans need replaced. Then he saw the TOP two, and said, "oh these are new. The other two need replaced." (He's right, I don't know what the PM had on the list. 
Then he ran to the master bath, walked in and said, this is beautiful. You should have seen it before- it was a mess. He walked to the tub and said THIS was BLACK. 
I said I don't know what you call black, but it's no different now than before you cleaned (last Tuesday) 
I had a friend in on Sunday, and she remarked about how nice both baths were, and that the light bars, 15 years old, were used in her 3 yo house. She knows how clean it was. 
He told me he cleaned the closet doors. He didn't. I did, and even did some painting on them.

He said at one point they did 9 hours of work, but wouldn't say what. 
He said the PM told him to NOT do the windows or blinds, he said he objected because it was dirty.

Anyway, he got cought, and knows it. He's coming back on Tues and cleaning the fridge, two mini blinds, and the shower/tub. He;ll pull out the stove and clean under it.  After he left, I got it pulled out part way, and it's not dirty under there. 
As to the paint off the door jamb, "It must not have taken." The door guides were on the closet shelf, pushed back.

I learned a lot on this moveout. Now to put it into practice.
I also plan to lodge a complaint with the PM owner, and possibly file a BBB complaint. They need to pay for the cleaning of the windows and blinds, since they stopped it, and told him to keep the costs low. They didn't even go to the limit of the cleaning deposit. 
The house is in Tucson, AZ, and will be for sale soon, Anyone interested? Actually, it was a really good rental for me, and will be a nice residence. It's a cut above my present place.

Account Closed · Answer

The company changed hands a month ago. I had been with them about 13 years. I said to a friend that if the previous owners had still been there, I would not be being treated this way.
My friend is planning to rent their home, and asked if I would recommend that co. That was prior to all this. Even then I said I didn't know. Now I do. No, I will not be using them for the next rental. 
ofgift

Account Closed · Answer

This is the list I sent to the PM after her call telling me the house was cleaned:

Kathy, I went back to the house with pencil and paper:
Kitchen:
Refrigerator needs cleaned, top to bottom. 
Not clean:
Top
ALL shelves
Door. That red is a sticky goo, removable with cloth and fluid.
Freezer Neither the freezer shelf nor door were cleaned. The  â€œboxesâ€ that probably hold the ice cube trays is dirty, as is the area beneath it.
The base area is dirty. 
There was no effort to clean underneath the fridge--the coils. There is a thick layer of dust and ? 
Kitchen shelf-the whole shelf is dirty with stains and debris.
Debris in sink, drip pans, coils and ? in sink.
Hard water deposits on sink at faucet.
Sink not cleaned.
Dirty area on wall at the left end of the shelf, right of the outlet, and possibly dirty water spots on wall and shelf to the right of that.
Kitchen blinds over sink dirty. The east one is filthy, the south one needs work. (the whole house was just painted there was no dirt on walls or baseboard on Monday)
Outlet/switch cover at kitchen sink needs cleaned
Kitchen cupboard doors are dirty. There are also some stains that should have been removed.
Stove needs put back together. 
I do not know if it was pulled out and cleaned under/behind.
Bay window blinds, particularly the large one and the one facing south need cleaned better.
Dining room floor is dirty
The chains of the fire screen is dusty. The top and near the hinges also needs cleaned.
Living room blind needs cleaned better.

Master bath:
Streak of dirt on baseboard by toilet
Shower grout and tile need cleaned
Tub looks dirty, inside and out-needs scrubbed.
Toilet bowl does not look clean.
Bathroom blind needs cleaned
Hard water deposits on sink at faucet.
Suite floor has many areas of dirt and debris in bath, in bedroom proper, in closets, and in the little hall going to the living room.

Entry door: dirt on the interior beneath the handle and on the door edge. 
Floor is dirty

Hallway to the 2 bedrooms:
Return air vent appears to have been dusted somewhat but not cleaned.

Second bath toilet seat appears to have not been cleaned
Hard water deposits on sink at faucet.
Shower tile and grout need cleaned.

South west bedroom: several scrapes on door frame, right side all up and down. Very bad at the latch area. Some of the paint removed
Debris and dirt on the floor 
Streak of dirt on baseboard under south window
Both sliding closet door guides gone: one was in place, the other was lying under the doors, but not glued. Both are gone.

Northwest bedroom 
Floor dirty

Laundry room floor dirty 
Throughout the house there are many areas of the floor that were not cleaned, including near the perimeter throughout.

There may be things I missed.

her response to me:
From: kathy@ > To:        @hotmail.com> 
Subject: RE: 874 E  Street> Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2008

I am really surprised that you find so many things not cleaned, since you> thought the house did not need to be cleaned in the first place.>> I will contact the cleaning company.>> Kathy>>

Oct. 09, 2008
Forgot to include these:
The refrigerator and freezer door seals need cleaned.
The stove top needs lifted and that space needs cleaned.

Doggone it--one more! There was a furnace filter still in the package in the furnace closet. It is not there, I don't see it anywhere.   >

I did not tell her the house did not need cleaned: I told her _I_ would clean it and bill for it, and she said no, couldn't do that. 
I had already cleaned the floor grout. the entire house is tiled. No carpet. 
ofgift

Michael Shadow · Answer

Greg hit the nail on the head.  Clean to one person is not clean to another.  I have this discussion with my daughter all the time, what I think is a clean room is no where near what she thinks is a clean room.

You need to pull out your contract and see what it spells out (you do have one right?).  If it doesn't spell anything out then it's probably better just to find another cleaning company and let the first one know that you're going to tell everyone in town that they do a horrible job and screwed you over.  Get your next company to spell everything that they will do out in a contract so you know what you are getting and there will be no surprises.

-Michael

Greg Schickedanz · Answer

You'll probably never get it resolved unless you have a contract that describes what "clean" means - otherwise it's a subjective thing! Some think "broom clean" is clean. Some think scrubbed with antiseptic and tested for remaining bacteria is clean!

My point is, you ought to have it in a contract, to minimize this type of issue.

What are the market rates (you don't say where the house is) so anyone elses opinion of "value" is irrelevant without knowing the market - is the house in Beverly Hills or Detroit or somewhere in between?

In Denver you'd pay a lot more for a "deep cleaning".

Brendan O'Brien · Answer

Absolutely you're not being too picky, unless your property is in a really expensive market - like midtown Manhattan.

A very general point, it is always smart to stay on top of your property manager, and if this means your properties aren't as "hands-off" as you would like, so be it.

Dave Ihm · Answer

I think you got what you paid for. I have paid more for an apt. half the size. I also pay $70 for a cleaning company to do a basic cleaning my 1000 sqaure foot apt every other week.

I also think the company screwed you, if they say they are going to give you a good cleaning for $180 thats what they should do. They should just charge more and do a better job.

Michael Rossi · Answer

Why are you managing the cleanup when you have a property manager?  It seems to me that the property manager isn't doing the job that you want done.  I wouldn't do the management yourself and still pay a PM for the same work.
            
            Mike

Michael Shadow · Answer

I don't think your being too picky.  Did they have you sign a contract specifying what was to be cleaned?

-Michael