How to have "The Talk" with inherited tenants

How to have "The Talk" with inherited tenants

Rental Property Investor · Portland, OR · Member since 2015 · 338 posts · 332 votes

I purchased a fixer duplex with tenants who pay $695/mo ea.  Market is $1300/mo. in that Portland neighborhood. Their rent hasn't been raised since they moved in in 2012, and the units are in varying states of disrepair.  

They're on month to month agreements.  

The rental agreement I drew up is also month to month, but it raises their rent to $1208 in 100 days.  I'm also offering them $700 if they choose to leave within 40 days, and $300 if they choose to leave within 70 days. Ideally, they would choose to leave sooner rather than later so I can fix the units and rent them at market.  But it's their choice.  

I have an appointment to sit down with the tenants (each separately) this weekend to go over the new 7 page lease and answer any questions they might have.  I realize there's no way to do this without being the bad guy, and I can't worry about them liking me.  AND, I'd like to do it as painlessly for everyone as possible.  

Have any of you had to have this discussion before, and if so, what worked/what didn't, and what did you learn from the process?  If you can recommend specific things I could say, or scripts even, to place the "blame" on the previous owner who decided to sell and/or the market, so it's not a "me vs tenant" interaction, I would really appreciate it.  

I bought the property with a partner, but I agreed to be the one to manage it.  We can play good cop bad cop if need be (I'm probably bad cop), but since I agreed to manage, I want to keep my agreement to him and leave him out of this if I can.  

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Developer · Portland, OR · Member since 2014 · 732 posts · 490 votes
10y
Dani Z. Congratulations on your new acquisition!Woodlawn is such a great little neighborhood and it's nice that you're not very far away. What you're going through is the hardest part of the business in my experience. I agree with another poster who advised that in the future closing should occur when tenants move out. That's definitely the ideal, but not something the seller necessarily will willingly do. Therefore you do find yourself in these situations from time to time. I like your empathetic approach to the situation but will caution you that no matter what, it's going to be you vs the tenant. It's very unlikely that you will be able to spin it as "us vs the previous landlord/market". Your reasoning is sound and your talking points are spot on, but at the end of the day you're still the one whose responsibility it is to increase the rent, file a no clause, fix up the property, etc. It wasn't just the landlord's fault that the property degraded, it was also the people living in each unit. This is the reason a lot of property owners hire property managers, and I applaud you for taking on the responsibility you agreed to. I personally don't think you need to do a cash for keys approach if you're looking to hold onto the property and the tenants are on a month to month lease. If you need an expedited timeline then offer the money in exchange for keys, but if not, use the 90 days as a good time to plan and get things ready. My approach would be to tell the tenants that it's your job to be the steward of the property, and as such, you have different standards than the previous owner. Your job is to ensure that the property is in good condition moving forward and that your tenants have a safe, clean, and quiet place they can call home. State the facts they already know--rent is well below market and has been static for five years. If you'd like to keep the tenants then go ahead and issue a 90 notice to increase rent, but I wouldn't go all the way to market rates. I'd also give them an update as a show of good faith- buy a new refrigerator, replace the carpet, update the cadet heaters, sometime so that they can feel like they are getting value in return. What's tricky here is that you still need them to know it is not okay for the apartments and common areas to be trashed. Sometimes having all new tenants is a good thing. No lingering spillovers from the previous landlord's tactics and a hand-selected tenant base of your choosing. If there are tenants in there that you absolutely do not want in your building then you need to give them a no cause 90 day notice to vacate, no exceptions. Don't forgive rent in the meantime for leverage sake, but I do think it's nice to pay for the moving truck. Be firm and consistent but also courteous. It's your job to follow the letter of the law and be sure to document your communication. It's a rocky period but it'll pass. Tell them you'll prorate rent back to them if they end up moving before the 90 days. Never unconditionally give them back the security deposit ahead of time since you need to hold onto all the leverage you can get. It's nice that you have compiled resources for them to contact but be sure that you're not handing them the keys to call a lawyer that will help them in a plight to become professional tenants. The last thing you want is a tenant with a wrecked apartment that is now a legal crusader for all of Portland's housing woes. Best of luck and let us know how it turns out!
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  • Investor · El Dorado Hills, CA · Member since 2012 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    10y
    You are right that there is no way to deliver a 75% rent increase and be liked. I think giving too many options gets messy. I would blame it on the condition of the property and say you need to do extensive work and the units need to be vacant to get that work done. Give them 60 days and sympathize that moving is a pain but you will give them $700 and their full deposit back (assuming it was transferred to you) as a way to ease the burden.
  • Rockford, IL · Member since 2016 · 126 posts · 48 votes
    10y

    What are you planning to do if they decide to stay?  I have a similar situation with an inherited tenant on a month to month lease.  They are actually paying a bit above market, but would never pass a background check due to felony convictions.  I plan on asking him if there is anything in his past I need to be concerned about when I meet with him.  If he comes clean, I am willing to let him stay with a very restricted month to month lease.  I am only doing this because they just moved in and have two kids.  

  • Gino BarbaroPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · St Augustine, FL · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    10y

    @Account Closed

    Hi Dani

    They are not staying.  There is no way they are going to afford the rental increase.  What we normally do is to add value to the property before levying increases to the tenants, whether it be flooring, landscaping, etc.

    You have to put yourself in their shoes for one moment. How would you feel if you lived in a home for 5 years, no rent increase and someone is going to tell you that your rent is doubling.

    The only thing you can say to them is that you have expenses to pay and are accountable to your partner.  On our first property, I had my partner go to the tenants and pretend as if he was managing the property with a minority interest.  He was just doing what he was told.

    What do you want? If you want them out, don't give them the escalations.  Just evict and rip the bandaid off instead of slowly peeling it.  Don't look at yourself as the bad guy. If you fix the property and deliver a quality product, then you should feel fine to ask for market rent.

    Good Luck

    Gino

  • Investor · Endicott, NY · Member since 2015 · 34 posts · 36 votes
    10y

    One worry I would have is that, if it comes to evicting them, a judge might find it too punishing to increase the rents that much right away, and allow them to stay.

    I think I would try to approach it like:  "We bought this house with the intention of updating it to a more current state, and to do that, we need the house to be vacant (asbestos, lead paint, mold might make good reasons if they are true concerns).  We really are sorry, but we need to empty the apartments as quickly as possible.  To soften the blow, we will give you one month's rent if you can leave by [insert date].  We will also return any security deposit, assuming all is in OK condition."

    If they agree, pay them AFTER they leave the property.  If they don't, serve them with a "No-Cause Eviction".  Requirements vary by state and county, so check first.  But generally, these need to be filed 20 days before the next rent is due, and the tenant must be given up to 60 days to move before enforcing the eviction.

    A second idea is that it may be better to offer them a better "buyout" rather than risk the delay and potential legal costs.  What you may realize is the potential costs may be as high as $1,000 in legal fees, plus ($1,300 - 695) $605 in lost rent per month for up to 3 months, PER APARTMENT.  This could amount to $2,800 per unit.  On top of that, they may stop paying rents.

    So, you may be wiser to immediately serve them the (no-cause) foreclosure notice, and then offer them $2,000 to move tomorrow, with a reduction of $50/day for each day they delay after that.  That is a big carrot, but the offset is that they have already been pushed further down the eviction process quicker if they decide to stay put.

    This way, if one leaves right away, and the other stays, you can start upgrades on the one unit while fighting to clear the other.

    I hope this makes sense, since it isn't exactly what you are looking for.  But that additional monthly rent makes it worth the added cost to get them out as soon as possible.

  • Investor · NOVA, VA · Member since 2014 · 99 posts · 101 votes
    10y

    For next time, make your offer subject to the units being vacant before closing.

    For this time, follow the lease and laws of your state for ending a month to month lease.  They already agreed to those provisions when they signed the lease.

  • Rental Property Investor · Portland, OR · Member since 2015 · 338 posts · 332 votes
    10y

    Thanks everyone for your thoughtful feedback.  

    In Portland, landlords must give tenants 90 days' notice to ask them to leave or to increase rent more than 5% over 12 months--whether they've they've lived in the property one month or 10 years.  This law was enacted last November because of the mayor's "housing state of emergency."  Portland rents have increased 14% year over year (along with home prices in some neighborhoods) and many tenants are/were facing no-cause evictions from new owners planning to rehab and re-rent the units for 2 to 3 times their previous amounts.  

    Vacancy rate is 3% and there is a lot of competition in the rental market.  Many lower-income folks have been pushed into neighborhoods farther away from the city center, where the rents are slightly lower.

    This duplex is in a "close-in" part of the city in an up-and-coming-if-not-already-arrived neighborhood (Woodlawn for Portland peeps). Rent in this neighborhood is higher than average for the Portland/Vancouver/Beaverton/Gresham metro as a whole. The reason I chose to raise the rent to $1208 is because that's HUD's "fair market rent" for a 2br for the entire metro region. That's still at least $100 below market for this neighborhood, if the units are in decent shape.

    Really, I don't expect these two families to stay at that rent amount, but because the rental market is so competitive here, I didn't want them to feel panicked that they would not have a place to live if they weren't able to find a cheaper rental in time.  This way, I'm not asking them to leave, but if they do choose to leave early, they will see free money in the form of an extra security deposit refund ($700 or $300 as outlined above).   

    These folks are not unhip to the rental situation here and know they've been paying very low rent.  They knew that the previous owner was selling, and that would very likely result in a rent increase for them, at best.  @Gino Barbaro, to answer your question, if I lived in a home for 5 years without a rent increase, I'd consider myself very lucky.  And as soon as I heard that the landlord was selling, I'd pack my bags because the writing is on the wall.  Which brings me to ... 

    ... the conversation.  Rather than send in my partner under the guise of "just following orders," at the end of the day, I have to live with myself.  So for integrity's sake, I want to simply sit down with them and have a real conversation about their options, while offering as much support as I can from a business perspective.  I've put together a list of community resources to help them during the transition (rental assistance organizations, homeownership and down payment assistance programs, transitional housing, affordable apartment complexes, other cash assistance) so they'll know who to ask for help.  But when we sit down together and go over the new agreement and their options, I want it to be as painless for everyone as possible, if not exactly jovial.  I thought an "us vs the market" or "us vs the previous landlord who didn't maintain the property and then sold it out from under you" approach might be a good idea.  But I've never had this conversation before, so I was hoping you fine folks might have some other suggestions about what I might specifically say to make the meeting not terrible.  

    Maybe it would help to get the perspective of some local experts?  @Neal Collins? @Mike Nuss? Just tried to tag Marcia Maynard but I guess we're not connected.  

  • Vilas, WI · Member since 2015 · 79 posts · 41 votes
    10y

    That is a tough one. Are the units in that bad of shape, like needing to correct code issues, or are the renovations/repairs being done more out of justifying and increase in rent?

    I have a 5 unit and 12 unit - all inherited tenants. About 13 of them are long-term good tenants. Older, retired couples. The units really need updating, but there is nothing against code going on. ( IE: 18 year old carpeting - yuk! ) 

    I knew I had one younger couple who was struggling, late payments, fighting, etc. I let them out of their lease without penalty then started renovating with their unit first. Even with the increased rent for the newer unit, I had a couple living downstairs, who was willing to move into the newer place. BUT, as it happens, an older tenant on the lower floor got sick and had to go to assisted living. This really got the ball moving. We basically have a musical chairs of renovated units going on :-) One gets finished, and the swap begins. Repeat. Sure, it takes a little longer, but our long-term tenants are very happy, which makes my life easier.

    I realize this might not work in all cases, but so far so good for us!

  • Mike NussPro Member
    Real Estate Entrepreneur · Portland, OR · Member since 2014 · 451 posts · 328 votes
    10y

    @Account Closedlets chat today. 

  • Developer · Portland, OR · Member since 2014 · 732 posts · 490 votes
    10y
    Dani Z. Congratulations on your new acquisition!Woodlawn is such a great little neighborhood and it's nice that you're not very far away. What you're going through is the hardest part of the business in my experience. I agree with another poster who advised that in the future closing should occur when tenants move out. That's definitely the ideal, but not something the seller necessarily will willingly do. Therefore you do find yourself in these situations from time to time. I like your empathetic approach to the situation but will caution you that no matter what, it's going to be you vs the tenant. It's very unlikely that you will be able to spin it as "us vs the previous landlord/market". Your reasoning is sound and your talking points are spot on, but at the end of the day you're still the one whose responsibility it is to increase the rent, file a no clause, fix up the property, etc. It wasn't just the landlord's fault that the property degraded, it was also the people living in each unit. This is the reason a lot of property owners hire property managers, and I applaud you for taking on the responsibility you agreed to. I personally don't think you need to do a cash for keys approach if you're looking to hold onto the property and the tenants are on a month to month lease. If you need an expedited timeline then offer the money in exchange for keys, but if not, use the 90 days as a good time to plan and get things ready. My approach would be to tell the tenants that it's your job to be the steward of the property, and as such, you have different standards than the previous owner. Your job is to ensure that the property is in good condition moving forward and that your tenants have a safe, clean, and quiet place they can call home. State the facts they already know--rent is well below market and has been static for five years. If you'd like to keep the tenants then go ahead and issue a 90 notice to increase rent, but I wouldn't go all the way to market rates. I'd also give them an update as a show of good faith- buy a new refrigerator, replace the carpet, update the cadet heaters, sometime so that they can feel like they are getting value in return. What's tricky here is that you still need them to know it is not okay for the apartments and common areas to be trashed. Sometimes having all new tenants is a good thing. No lingering spillovers from the previous landlord's tactics and a hand-selected tenant base of your choosing. If there are tenants in there that you absolutely do not want in your building then you need to give them a no cause 90 day notice to vacate, no exceptions. Don't forgive rent in the meantime for leverage sake, but I do think it's nice to pay for the moving truck. Be firm and consistent but also courteous. It's your job to follow the letter of the law and be sure to document your communication. It's a rocky period but it'll pass. Tell them you'll prorate rent back to them if they end up moving before the 90 days. Never unconditionally give them back the security deposit ahead of time since you need to hold onto all the leverage you can get. It's nice that you have compiled resources for them to contact but be sure that you're not handing them the keys to call a lawyer that will help them in a plight to become professional tenants. The last thing you want is a tenant with a wrecked apartment that is now a legal crusader for all of Portland's housing woes. Best of luck and let us know how it turns out!
  • Buy & Hold Owner · Redlands, CA · Member since 2015 · 5k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    10y

    Better check State Regs on Tenants Rights To Relocation For No-Fault Evictions

    For California its CC 37.9C here

    • "(e) Relocation expenses shall be:
    • (1) Each Eligible Tenant receiving a Covered No-Fault Eviction Notice shall receive $4,500, $2,250 of which shall be paid at the time of the service of the notice to quit, and $2,250 of which shall be paid when the unit is vacated. In no case, however, shall the landlord be obligated under this section 37.9C(e)(1) to provide more than $13,500 in relocation expenses to all Eligible Tenants in the same unit.
    • (2) In addition, each Eligible Tenant who is 60 years of age or older or who is disabled within the meaning of Section 12955.3 of the California Government Code, and each household with at least one Eligible Tenant and at least one child under the age of 18 years, shall be entitled to receive an additional payment of $3,000.00, $1,500.00 of which shall be paid within fifteen (15) calendar days of the landlord's receipt of written notice from the Eligible Tenant of entitlement to the relocation payment along with supporting evidence, and $1,500 of which shall be paid when the Eligible Tenant vacates the unit. Within 30 days after notification to the landlord of a claim of entitlement to additional relocation expenses because of disability, age, or having children in the household, the landlord shall give written notice to the Rent Board of the claim for additional relocation assistance and whether or not the landlord disputes the claim."

    The Cash for keys approach is questionable ( even I advocate it normally in a For Cause eviction) as if the tenant becomes aware of their rights after the fact, they could easily win a Small Claims against you.

  • Buy & Hold Owner · Redlands, CA · Member since 2015 · 5k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    10y

    "tenants who pay $695/mo ea. Market is $1300/mo."

    Suggest you take a slow-go approach and serve notice something like this:

    • As the new owner I see your rent is $695/mo - - are you aware that the FMR for the apartment is $1300/mo?
    • My partner (the bad cop :grin:) is insisting that we get FMR but I have convinced him to be gentle in this matter, so here's our plan to get the FMR for our apartments.
    • Every other month, we will be raising the rents 10% until we get to the FMR rate.
    • We will begin this policy in 30 days of this letter.

    Serve the normal 30-day notice of change in terms and attach a personal letter like the above.  They don't get to vote on it, nor approve.

    Let's say the above is served on March 1; April 1 you get 1.1x current rent.  May 1, you serve another 30-day notice of change in terms, and June you get 1.21x rent.  Continue until they serve notice to terminate.

  • Developer · Portland, OR · Member since 2014 · 732 posts · 490 votes
    10y

    There's no relocation expenses for no-cause evictions in Oregon. New landlord tenant laws now mandate 90 day notices for rental increases of 5% or more in a 12 month period (as well as no cause evictions), so you can't continuously give 30 or even 60 day rental increase notices until the tenant gives you notice.

    I also don't think bad cop good cop is a good strategy if you own the building. Tenants and landlords are constantly testing and training each other. Be courteous but firm, you're building will run better overall. No use hiding behind someone else if you are on title like you can with a normal PM arrangement.

  • Rental Property Investor · Portland, OR · Member since 2015 · 338 posts · 332 votes
    10y

    Thank you thank you @Neal Collins!  I'm meeting with one of the tenants in an hour, so I don't have time to write a long response, but know that I've incorporated what you've said (and what @Mike Nuss said during our conversation today) into my approach and am updating my documents as I write this.  I'll let you know how it goes today (after the first to two conversations; the second one is tomorrow).  More later.

  • Rental Property Investor · Providence, RI · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 594 votes
    10y

    I have to be honest. A jump in rent is a difficult one to sell.  With inherited tenants, I try to find that sweet spot of rent increases.  The number that i usually like is $75 bucks.  Once it goes up $100, something subconscious happens.  To increase them such a huge amount in a short period of time is going to get ugly in my opinion.  Ive got a bunch of these, and one of the things that I try to do is maintain the best possible relationship with the tenants, especially the inherited ones.  I stay firm, but I make sure to improve their property.  I meet them face to face and lay the ground rules, but I do it in a way where they feel like they are gaining something.  Usually softens the blow and makes for a smoother transition and more fluid movement going forward.  

  • Rental Property Investor · Fort Wayne, IN · Member since 2016 · 258 posts · 177 votes
    10y
    Cash for the keys should work in this situation , offer them cash to vacate as soon as possible and I would also help them move out .
  • Real Estate Agent · Elk Grove Village, IL · Member since 2014 · 45 posts · 14 votes
    10y

    Dani, let us know how your meeting went, I am very interested in this topic and your case in particular.

  • Investor · Colorado Springs, CO · Member since 2014 · 77 posts · 54 votes
    10y

    previous replies have given you great advice. Generally you should not have to do cash for keys if you wish to end a month to month lease. I've only used cash for keys to motivate late paying or non paying tenants to move so that I could meet my owner occupied loan rquirements. 

    I think the pep talk you are looking for before you have 'the talk' next time goes like this:

    'I have decided what I'm going to do, I have the necessary paperwork to do it. I will treat all my tenants fairly and with respect, but I made good choices that led me to this position and I am in charge, I run the show and this is what's going to happen.'

    This is what I tell myself before having 'the talk'. It doesn't hurt to be super nice and courteous when giving people news they want to hear.

  • Investor · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    10y

    Month-to-month, correct? And you want them out so you can update? Just send notice of non-renewal.

  • Rental Property Investor · Portland, OR · Member since 2015 · 338 posts · 332 votes
    10y

    Life is interesting because, if you're listening, it will often place just what you need in your path right when you need it.  

    I lead volunteer crews planting neighborhood street trees with a local non-profit.  Yesterday our planting was in Vancouver WA, just across the river.  One of the homeowners in my group who was getting a couple trees planted in his parking strip, I found out through the course of conversation, actually owns about 50 units in the Portland metro and also a few in Texas and the Midwest.  Jim's in his 70's and has owned many of these units for decades.  

    While we were chatting in the truck between house to house, he told me a story about a tenant whose union went on strike for 2 years and he wasn't able to pay rent.  Jim didn't charge him rent during that time, but after the tenant started working again, he paid it all back.  I thought, "wow, Jim was lucky he got his money back; I would never let someone live rent free for 2 years."  Then he told me about an older lady who lived in one of his apartments (in a historically black neighborhood that has been completely gentrified in the last 10 years) for 30 years.  When it came time to raise rents, the tenant, who was Section 8 and on a fixed income, called Jim up, worried sick that she would not be able to afford a rent hike and that she would be homeless.  He said to her, "don't you worry about a single thing.  Your rent won't go up one cent."  Jim raised everyone else's rent in the building, but not hers.  

    Again, I thought, "geez, he could be getting double the rent for that unit." But over the course of the day, Jim continued to tell me stories about instances where he was genuinely able to help people.  He said, "when you get to where I am and own a bunch of buildings free and clear, you can do things like this and really help people."  

    I asked, "have you ever had to evict people?"  "Of course," he replied.  That just goes with the territory.  You have to let go of bad tenants.  But the ones who pay on time every month, who take care of your units and who have been there for years, you don't have to squeeze every cent out of them, because the other units are more than compensating for them."  In addition to his 50 units, Jim owns a local business that's been in his family since the 1950's.  He and his wife are set for life and will never lack for anything.  

    I met Jim at 9AM, chatted with him throughout the morning until around 1PM, and had my first appointment with the tenants in one of the units at 4PM yesterday.  

    They are a family with one son; mom and dad are originally from Mexico but speak very good English (I don't speak Spanish). I went by myself without my partner so it wouldn't be too intimidating for them.  I first introduced myself and made small talk with them and their son, then asked about any maintenance issues that were neglected by the previous landlord and that need to be addressed. They told me about a few things, which I wrote down, and then I asked whether they had any questions.  They just wanted to know if "anything would change."  

    That's when I explained that the previous landlord had owned the building for many years and had purchased it for a lot less than I had.  Obviously, I said, there's also a lot of deferred maintenance.  I confirmed that they moved in in 2012 and that their rent hasn't gone up at all in that time, and I let them know that market rents in the neighborhood are in the $1300 range for apartments in good condition.  (They pay $695 and the previous owner paid water/garbage to the tune of $3k/year for both units.).  

    "I can tell that you're good tenants because you take care of the apartment and it's in good condition.  You seem like very conscientious and responsible people, so I don't want you to leave we can figure out a rent amount that will work for both of us.  I understand how anxiety-producing it is when the owner of your home decides to sell--the reason I own my home right now is because the the landlord where I was living decided to sell, and with 2 dogs and 2 cats, I never wanted to be in that position again.  I was lucky enough to get a home loan, but I also understand that not everyone has that same opportunity."  

    "That said, we have to make sure that we can pay the mortgage and taxes and insurance and for all the repairs."  I was very open and said that our inspector estimated repairs to cost about $67,000.  "So I have to make sure that I'm not losing money each month.  Speaking of which," I said, "the previous landlord paid $3,000 in water bills last year, which is crazy."  I compared that to the cost of water at the duplex I live in, which is is $800/year for both units combined.  So beginning in a month, I explained, the water bill would be split between the tenants according to the number of residents in each unit.  They would pay 3/8 and the other unit would pay 5/8 of the bill every three months.  

    "Now, what do you think is a fair rent that you can afford for this apartment?"  They asked what amount I had in mind.  I reminded them that market rents were $1300, but my partner and I were thinking in the $1000 to $1100 range for them.  Their eyes got wide and they spoke to each other in Spanish.  Then they said the most they could afford was $850.  I told them that I still have to talk with the tenants in the other unit, but I will run the 850 by my partner to see if it's something we can afford, and told them I would be in touch soon.  

    One thing I found out while there was that the husband works as a framer, and before that, as a maintenance guy.  

    Today at noon, I also met with the other tenants, a couple with 3 kids and a dog in a 2/1 apartment.  Their unit is in worse shape and needs new kitchen cabinets and new bathroom fixtures. They told me that they've had to move from their previous two apartments because the landlord raised the rent higher than they could afford.  They said that their kids go to the local school and the husband goes to the community college a mile away.  

     I had a similar discussion with them that I had with the people yesterday.  The mom told me the previous owner accepted rent on the 5th because that's the day she gets paid each month.  I adjusted the due date to the 5th each month (so late would be on the 10th).  We talked about some of the work that needed to be done (e.g. the MDF cabinets are so old that they shed MDF crumbs on their silverware each time the drawers are opened, and the tenants have to wash everything before they use it. And the tub valve has a wrench for a handle).  I was open with them and admitted that I was at a bit of a loss about how to do some of this work (especially the cabinets) while they are living there.  Normally, I said, a new owner would just ask tenants to leave and then do the work.  I said, I don't necessarily want them to leave, but I also don't want to be a slumlord with cabinets that are falling apart.  Maybe, for example, if you ever go out of town for a couple days, that would be a good time to do the work? They didn't have a reply.  

    Throughout the interaction, I tried to have them come up with as many of the solutions as possible.  

    Unlike the previous tenants, they had done some research and knew what market rents are.  I asked them, given market rent in this neighborhood, and you have 5 people living here (which is fine, I said, but it puts more wear and tear on the place), plus a dog, what do you think would be a fair rent that you can afford?  I don't think they were expecting the question because they didn't know how to answer.  I told them that my partner and I were thinking somewhere in the $1050 to 1100 range, but also that I understand what you can afford is whatever you can afford, and asked them to get back to me by Tuesday.  I thanked them for their time, and then I left.  

    Both conversations were less painful than I expected.  I still don't have the answers as I'm waiting to hear back from the second tenants about what rent they can pay.  If, for example, the second tenants can pay $1050 and the first tenants can pay $850 but help with some of the repairs, my partner and I would be OK with that.  It would save us a lot of up-front costs for repairs, and make it easier to make other repairs that would likely be too intrusive/loud if someone were paying $1300/month (e.g. new roof, or maybe even adding a third unit by raising the roof).  

    So it's not completely resolved yet, but my chance meeting with Jim at the tree planting, along with a conversation with @Mike Nussyesterday, and reading everyone's comments (thank you @Neal Collins) have helped me to come to this point.  The previous agreement [I was going to have them sign] raised rent to $1208 in 3 months.  The one they did sign changed nothing about what they pay, except for the water bill.  

    If we accept the amount of rent they can afford, we will send them a Change in Terms of Tenancy, in effect after 90 days.  If we don't, we will send them a Notice to Terminate Tenancy, in effect after 90 days.  But either way, they will have been heard and treated with integrity, and they will understand (even if they are angry about) why they are getting the notice they will be getting.  

    If people here are interested, I can update here what we ultimately end up doing when we know, sometime before the end of this month.  But right now, I feel good.  

  • Real Estate Agent · Odenton, MD · Member since 2016 · 35 posts · 5 votes
    10y

    Yes,  please let us know what happens!

    Though i do not know the legal requirements, I feel like you are laying the right groundwork to be a great landlord, whether they stay or go. 

    The business-side of my brain is concerned that you may not make money.  You have obligation to your partner as well to make sure this property is profitable. ..

    Just keep a balance. ..

  • Rod HanksBusiness Member
    Insurance Agent · Dallas, TX · Member since 2013 · 743 posts · 462 votes
    10y

    @Account Closed

    Wow! You handled that situation very professionally and treated the tenants with dignity and compassion. You are a much better landlord than me and I'm sure most others on this site. I would have just sent a letter with a rate increase and hoped they paid or moved.

    Rod Hanks Insurance4.9155 Reviews
  • Curtis BidwellPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Olympia, WA · Member since 2014 · 777 posts · 744 votes
    10y

    @Account ClosedI empathize with your situation.  I just raised rent on 10 folks we inherited.  Also, this week I informed another tenant we were selling her house.  In both cases I didn't make up any stories I just stated facts.  I'm not trying to be their friend, but I don't want them throwing things at me either! I said something like this:

    "As you know, your rent has been significantly under market that past __ years.  similar units in the neighborhood are going for  $XX .  As new owners, we need to be closer to market rents.  We would love to have you stay but understand if it is not feasible. We want to give you as much information as you need so you can make an informed decision about your future; and if a change is necessary we will do all we can to accommodate you. The new rate will be $xx  beginning ______. I'll give you some time to consider your options and get back in touch with you in a few days." 

    Personally, I wouldn't offer any concessions up front.  We gave no concessions in the 10 unit, and only gave $200 rent reduction to the gal whose home we are selling because she requested it based on "inconvenience of preparing for showings" which we totally understood and agreed to, wanting her to be happy and accommodating.  You can be friendly/cordial without paying extra for it! 

  • Queens, NY · Member since 2015 · 130 posts · 34 votes
    10y

    @Account Closedthis is such an interesting and enlightening situation. Thank you for sharing. While I commend your compassion and generous actions, I have to ask: are you going to cash flow on this property if you agree to the raised, but still under market, rents? Sorry if you've mentioned this, and I've missed it. 

  • Investor · Saint Paul, MN · Member since 2015 · 14 posts · 0 votes
    10y

    Yes, such an interesting post. Please do follow up with how things are turning out with your situation.

  • Rental Property Investor · Portland, OR · Member since 2015 · 338 posts · 332 votes
    10y

    @Sean Traceyand others concerned about cash flow: we purchased the place with cash (me with HELOC that's interest only now), so it does cash flow. The plan is to refinance in 6 months, so at that point, it will be more important.

    We haven't decided whether to accept the people at 850 or to counter with 900 or what. But while we still have repairs to do, it could be good to have people in there who won't complain about construction noise. And more importantly, we don't have to spend nearly as much up front on repairs this way. 

    If the tenant who used to do maintenance can also help us with repairs as a condition of his low rent, that would reduce our costs and our tax bill. We haven't discussed this with him yet. 

    Long story short, they're not going to be paying far below market here for long. Technically, with 2 working adults, both units "should" be able to afford $1200 (1/3 of $3600, which is full time minimum wage for two). So they will have to either better their employment situation (or lack thereof) at some point, or face moving. But I don't have to get market rent from them RIGHT NOW for this duplex to cash flow and be a good investment long term.

    Everyone says that Real Estate is a people business. It is. If you want a spreadsheet business, become a banker. 

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