Tenant Wants to Move In Before Lease Start Date

General Landlording & Rental Properties
9yFollow

Tenant Wants to Move In Before Lease Start Date

Mark Campbell
Atlanta, GA · Member since 2016 · 10 posts · 1 vote

Hello, everyone I am a new landlord and encountering my first issue.  Soon I'll be moving out of the first house I purchased and I'm converting it to a rental property.  I signed a lease with a tenant and they will move in several days after I move out.  The lease start date is October 1 (a Sunday) and I cancelled all my utilities on September 29th (Friday) since it has to be on a weekday.  

The tenant signed up all utilities to start September 29th and now wants to move in on that day.  I initially told him no the lease starts on October 1.  He contends that he is a great tenant (his background verifies that) and he is paying utilities that day so he thought he could move in. I mentioned that I am concerned about it because I won't have liability insurance until October 1.  He then says I am starting this off as a contentious relationship.  He cited that when we negotiated the lease I was difficult then too.  I actually gave him several exceptions to the boiler plate language that is standard here and 99% of landlords and property management companies will not negotiate.  I told him I felt I was very reasonable and I gave him several exceptions that most people would never consider.  

To be reasonable I said I would talk to my insurance company and see what they said.  To be legit I think I have to change the lease and the start date of my insurance to match September 29th.  I want to tell him the lease is October 1 and you can move in October 1 or it's trespassing.  It is slightly complicated because we are moving a small distance away and I can't think of a good way to give him the keys October 1.  

Am I being a difficult landlord by insisting he not move in early?

Do some tenants just want to negotiate and argue everything? 

0Reply
166 views

Most Popular Reply

Sara K.
Investor · Winter Garden, FL · Member since 2017 · 86 posts · 74 votes
9y

Sounds like your tenant has the power in your relationship.

Good news is, it's not too late to change that. 

6Reply
See this reply in the discussion

40 Replies

Jump to latestLatest
  • Roy N.Pro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Fredericton, New Brunswick · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    9y

    @Mark Campbell

    First, make certain the changes you made to the "boiler plate" agreement are not in violation of tenancy law.

    Second,  unless you need the time to clean and prep the house, amend the lease to start on Sept 29 and ask your tenant to furnish a copy of their tenants insurance policy commencing on that day.

    You could charge the tenant for the 2-days in September, but I wouldn't bother.

    3Reply
  • Eddie Memphis
    Investor · Englewood, CO · Member since 2015 · 158 posts · 140 votes
    9y

    Sounds like he's a dick. If you let him move in, prorate for the last two days of the month. But I wouldn't let him. He signed a contract stating October 1 is the move in date. Utilities do not equal occupancy. If you give in on this, he may think he can push you around. Don't let him.

    What you may do is tell him he can move his stuff in since it's a weekend but he can't stay there until the 1st. He will anyway but you will seem like a nice guy.

    5Reply
  • Amy Beth
    Rental Property Investor · Edison, NJ · Member since 2016 · 753 posts · 565 votes
    9y
    I think you picked the wrong tenant. I suspect that once he moves in he will find things to complain about. He will also likely be demanding about how quickly he wants these changes made. He may even make improvements himself and then try to deduct it from his rent. You have already taught him that he can negotiate with you. No matter what the insurance says just tell him he can move in on October 1st as agreed. Let him know if that does not work for him you are willing to let him out of his lease. Do not give him any other options. I do not think you should be negotiating anything with him. You are the landlord so you set the terms and if he does not like it he can find another landlord and property that is more suitable for him. Perhaps you will get lucky and he will want out and you can find a tenant whom will be less hassle for you. He sounds like he has already become a problem and he has not even moved in yet so this is a bad sign of what is to come. In the future when he calls you with a problem and complaint be less accommodating and more business like with him. If you do not think you will be able to then hire a property manager asap.
    3Reply
  • Thomas S.
    Member since 2016 · 13k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    9y

    Leases are non negotiable. Either you offer a lease or your tenant offers the lease. To protect yourself and practice professional business management you never negotiate. It shows you as being easily manipulated. 

    As soon as you mentioned the tenant accused you of creating a contentious relationship I knew you had a tenant that you will regret accepted. He will be demanding and entitled till the day you non renew.

    In the future never sign a term lease with a new tenant, M2M only if you want to avoid what you will now be facing.

    "Do some tenants just want to negotiate and argue everything?"

    Some tenants are simply arrogant A holes. You got yourself a winner.

    PS. He will be making never ending demands. The landlords response to all requests is always  a resounding NO. If you ever make the mistake of saying yes again to any request he will own you. No good deed ever goes unpunished in this business.

    3Reply
  • Roy N.Pro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Fredericton, New Brunswick · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Thomas S.:

    Leases are non negotiable. Either you offer a lease or your tenant offers the lease. To protect yourself and practice professional business management you never negotiate. It shows you as being easily manipulated. 

     Thomas:

    While I will concede that residential leases in your home area and mine are typically non-negotiable, you cannot generalize this to all leases.   It is common practice to negotiate the terms/details of commercial leases and does not show one party or the other as being easily manipulated.

    2Reply
  • Ingrid J.
    Investor · Tromsø, Norway (Europe) · Member since 2015 · 431 posts · 194 votes
    9y

    @Mark Campbell Do not let the tenant move in early.

    There is a BP podcast describing a situation very similar to yours. Listen to podcast 105 with investor Ophelia Nicholson who got sued for being nice and letting her tenants move in early. She was called a slumlord and lost against the tenant in court, if my memory serves me right.

    1Reply
  • Mark Campbell
    OP
    Atlanta, GA · Member since 2016 · 10 posts · 1 vote
    9y

    Thanks for everyone's advice.  Some more general background.  I am not worried about anything we changed.  It was done in a real estate office and was things like late fees ($75 agreed and others).  

    The rent is higher for the area.  It's a neighborhood that appeals to educated young professionals.  

    0Reply
  • Thomas S.
    Member since 2016 · 13k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    9y

    @Roy N.

    Sorry.

    What I meant was that no self respecting residential landlord would ever agree to allow a tenant to negotiate their lease. 

    It is not that it isn't negotiable it is that only green LLs and idiots allow it to happen.

    Commercial is a entirely different animal. Agreed.

    1Reply
  • Christine Kankowski
    Real Estate Broker · Temecula, CA · Member since 2014 · 992 posts · 782 votes
    9y

    He is pushing you.

    Just let him know that you need to be fully moved out and have the place clean for him and that wont be available until the 1st.  No need to argue with him.  The lease is that date which means you both agreed upon that date. Stand your ground but let him know the property wont be ready and insurance not on until then so you can't make an exception.

    Also- if he remains a pain in the **, I recommend getting a property manager, because we dont allow bullying, like some landlords do (not on purpose, they just do)

    ASk him to have all future correspondence via email so you can keep a record of all requests, repairs, etc. 

    Hopefully he will leave you alone once he moves in.  (Also, take 200 pictures of the inside and outside of every drawer, light bulb, door, window, appliance, etc so you have a record (for yourself) of the condition of everything.  Have him sign for all keys, remotes, fridge, etc. 

    I am super curious as to what he wanted changed in the lease.

    3Reply
  • Sara K.
    Investor · Winter Garden, FL · Member since 2017 · 86 posts · 74 votes
    9y

    Sounds like your tenant has the power in your relationship.

    Good news is, it's not too late to change that. 

    6Reply
  • Victor Evans
    Investor · Frederick, MD · Member since 2015 · 48 posts · 26 votes
    9y

    Regardless of whether you keep him as a tenant or not, I would turn the property over to a PM ASAP! 

    1Reply
  • Fred Heller
    Real Estate Agent/Property Management · Houston, TX · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 827 votes
    9y

    Assuming the house is move-in ready, there's nothing wrong with amending the lease with the new start date and charging him prorated rent for the additional days.

    My concern is the guy is a jerk. If he's jerking your chain at the beginning of your relationship, imagine how he will be the first time the AC goes out.

    3Reply
  • Wayne W.
    New to Real Estate · Chino Hills, CA · Member since 2017 · 23 posts · 8 votes
    9y

    His argument was he will be paying the utility bill for 29th of Sep. Just tell him you will pay for it.  

    0Reply
  • Kathy Johnson
    Real Estate Professional · Hayfork, CA · Member since 2015 · 231 posts · 212 votes
    9y

    Tenants who want to negotiate the late fees, are the tenants who plan to pay late.  The late fees don't matter to timely tenants.

    2Reply
  • Matthew Olszak
    Real Estate Broker · Chicago, IL · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Wayne W.:

    His argument was he will be paying the utility bill for 29th of Sep. Just tell him you will pay for it.  

    I disagree. He activated the utilities prior to his move in date likely as a matter of convenience to him to be sure they would be on when he moved in on Oct 1. If he doesn't want to pay for them, he should have them turned on Oct 1 when the lease starts.

    In the past, I was very flexible about move-in dates as long as 1st month + deposit was paid, "as a matter of courtesy". But then I caught a tenant from hell who complained about everything, and tried to stick me hard about cosmetic work that wasn't yet completed because we weren't planning on a move-in until the end of the month. Then, she didn't want to let my contractors in to complete the work, and then blamed them on damages to her things. So that was the last time I provided such courtesy. Unless payment is due every month on the 29th and the lease runs on the 29th, they don't get the keys until the 1st.

    0Reply
  • Carl Dowdy
    Rental Property Investor · Golden, CO · Member since 2017 · 25 posts · 24 votes
    9y

    I routinely let tenants move in a few days early for free if the place is empty. Doesn't cost me anything and it's as an opportunity to build good will.  My leases provide that if the tenant is allowed to occupy the property in any manner before the term starts, that all provisions shall immediately apply as if the term had been amended to commence on that date, or something to that effect.  

    6Reply
  • Mark Campbell
    OP
    Atlanta, GA · Member since 2016 · 10 posts · 1 vote
    9y

    Thanks everyone for the advice.  I'll present two options to the tenant either amend the lease and prorate or keep the original lease date.  

    The things he wanted changed were reduced late fee, 60 days of pest control instead of 30, removal of a clause related to late fees associated with unreported HVAC problems (I feel I am still protected in other parts of the lease), he wanted a clause that he will notify me within 24 hours of any problems, he wanted a clause that I wouldn't show the property until he gave notice to vacate. 

    He paid a security deposit but not first months rent.  He said he wanted the keys before the rent.  I just wanted the lease signed since I felt well protected in a landlord friendly state.  The lease is clear that initial payment is due on the first day of the lease.  I have combo lock on the backdoor.  I decided I will leave the keys in an envelope inside.  If rent is paid by the first day I will text him the combo and he can access the property and get the keys.  I also will not amend the lease without paid first months rent.  

    Thoughts on this approach?

    0Reply
  • Account Closed
    Real Estate Agent · Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2015 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    always collect all monies due before move in no matter how friendly  state law is I like your solution

    3Reply
  • JD MartinBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
    9y

    Your lease should read that validity of the lease is premised upon payment of X by the tenant, which should be at least deposit and first month's rent. Otherwise, you've signed a lease with someone and if they don't pay the first month's rent and move in, you are immediately working on an eviction. 

    Other thoughts:

    1. We don't have any problem with letting a tenant move in a few days early on a vacant property. Anything more than 4 days we pro-rate a partial month. Anything less we allow it as good will, especially if the first starts on say a Tuesday, it gives them the weekend before to get moved in. Have never had a problem. But we don't have a lease unless we have first/last/deposit, already cleared (cash/mo/electronic payment or check with at least 3 weeks to clear). 

    2. Any tenant that tried to negotiate the terms of the lease, we would decline any negotiations and they can sign or walk.

    Podcast Guest on Show #243
    Skyline Properties
    View Page
    5Reply
  • Ralph R.
    Investor · Bethel, AK · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 852 votes
    9y
    Mark Campbell You have started down a poor road with this guy. You have a business now. Run it as such. Take the emotion out of it. The pest control thing tells me you are going to have trouble here. Late fees are non negotiable. This guy is going to be late every month. When he is, issue an eviction notice the first day that's legal. Once he contacts you don't let him be the boss. If he wants arrangements that's up to you. BUT The late fee gets paid FIRST. And you schedule a walk through. THE EVICTION PROCESS DOES NOT STOP UNTIL THE RENT IS PAID IN FULL!!! You can get back rent in court but not late fees. Bills get paid first. Same thing. Last thing you credit is rent. Every Time the rent is late you schedule a walk through. He will have to clean the place up every month that way. Late rent always gets rewarded with an eviction notice and a walk through, EVERY TIME he is late. It takes 3 weeks to get an eviction. A week or 2 to turn the unit then it takes a while to rent again. If you stop the eviction by accepting partial rent or whatever you prolong the process. He can bleed a lot of money out of you if you deviate from this process. If you don't weaken it will cost you 1 1/2 months mortgage payments out of pocket. If you get weak with an eviction it will cost you a bunch more. If you cannot toughen up you better get a good PM. You are headed for some expensive and painful lessons with this guy if you keep going like this. RR
    2Reply
  • Diogo Marques
    Financial Advisor · Cascais, Lisboa · Member since 2015 · 199 posts · 83 votes
    9y
    Only after contract is signef
    0Reply
  • Jake Recz
    Manville, NJ · Member since 2015 · 141 posts · 87 votes
    9y
    Short and sweet. Don't do it! Why? If you owned a convenience store that you open at 6am daily, would you let a new customer come in and do his shopping at 5am? No. You open at 6am. This is business. Treat it as such. If you let him get his way once its gonna go down hill very quick. Don't worry about if he's a good tenant or not. This is business. Your business, your rules. He pays rent, not the mortgage.
    3Reply
  • Amy Beth
    Rental Property Investor · Edison, NJ · Member since 2016 · 753 posts · 565 votes
    9y
    I am surprised to hear you would allow him to sign the lease without him first paying both the rent and security deposit. You are now holding the apartment for him for a few weeks with the promise that he will pay you. If he does not you will have to take him to court since he has signed a lease and you will lose at least one month rent. In the future if the tenant can't pay then keep advertising the rental until you find a tenant whom meets your criteria and pays everything before lease signing. The tenant has already criticized you by telling you that you are contentious and difficult. That is not the right way to start a landlord tenant relationship. If someone ever did that to me I would refuse to rent to them. It is a sign of what is to come if they think that is an acceptable way to converse with you at a lease signing. I really think you have made a huge mistake accepting him as a tenant. The fact he had an issue with the late fee clause is alarming. If he will be paying on time why would that matter? I STRONGLY recommend that you hire a property manager immediately. This will be a difficult tenant to manage and you are already allowing him to manipulate you.
    3Reply
  • Lynn McGeein
    Real Estate Agent · Virginia Beach, VA · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    Since you already have a signed lease and it would be more convenient for you to get the keys to him early, anyway, if it were me, I'd write up an addendum changing the lease start date to Sept 29 as long as you get first full month's rent + 2 days' prorated in certified funds before possession.  Your landlord insurance should not have a problem changing the date to September 29, but contact them first just to make sure.  I usually require security deposit, any prorated rent if under 2 weeks, and first full month's rent in certified funds before I will hold the unit , and it's in my lease that possession will not be granted until proof of transfer of utilities and renter's insurance policy is provided. 

    Be careful on  your plan to not allow possession until rent is paid unless it is in your lease as you've already signed it, and if it has a grace period until the 5th built in, then you might already have issues if you don't allow possession on the 1st before he pays the rent.   Requiring first month's up front in certified funds alleviates that concern.  I'm not a lawyer, no legal advice, but know the terms of your lease in detail and read your landlord/tenant laws and know them well as this tenant sounds like someone who may take advantage of you if you don't know what you are allowed and not allowed to do.     

    1Reply
  • Deanna McCormick
    Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    I'd see no issue if house is ready to let tenant move in a few 2-3 days early, but rent would have to be paid in full prior to him getting the keys.. I'd just do a notation on the lease of concession for occupancy Sept 29,30,  Honestly 2 days of utilities isn't a big deal either way, and for insurance a quick phone call is all it takes to notify of change.

    Tenants are just like us,, they have jobs, family, and moving is a huge hassle.. a few days early if vacant is a big hurdle to overcome in moving,, lets him also get where he's going from cleaned out.. 

    Lease changes are up to the landlord either yes or no. It's that simple.. 

    Hard nose doesn't always win, and you should look at it from his angle, if it's possible then why wouldn't you do it.. If you need the money for the 2 days then charge him.. 

    But personally I'd let him in as long as paid in full when I give him keys

    3Reply
Join the conversationCreate a free account to reply, vote on answers and follow this thread.
Log InJoin for Free