Trouble and greedy tenant

23 Replies

Hi all, The lease between my tenant and I ends on March 31 st, I wanted to raise $20, he disagree because his say apartment has a lot issues, I say fine keep same rent rate for one year, he say he did not want to sign one year lease but want month to month because he want to move out. I told him I have to do one year lease but if he want to move out he can do a lease transfer. Prepare the contract he say he only want to give me 30 days notice to move out Doesnt not want to wait for me to find new tenant to take over the lease. I say fine let me change the contract. Change to He can back out with 30 days notice. Now he doesn’t want to e-sign he want to meet face to face to sign. I can’t I am going to a trip. I told him either we do a e-sign or we just end lease I will give him 60 day notice to move out. He say he will e-sign ( short story , more things on the document template he can’t sign his wife doesn’t know how to sign) I finally had enough told him, I am doing the best I can as landloard I do not want to continue with this anymore i will send him a 60 days notice so he can find his new place, he told me then how dare you Speack to me like I am homeless you can’t do that to me. I hang up the phone do not wish continue the conversation. What should I do at this point? Let him be month to month term without renewing the lease, and if he doesn’t move out in 90 days I will just send a rent increase notice of extra $50. And every 6 month raise $50 until he moves out? Find a good property management company and let them deal with the tenant. I had enough with those greedy tenant. I keep backing up and try to be nice but that’s just too much.

Give him the option to sign a new lease at the smaller increase, or convert to month-to-month at a much higher rate. Going month-to-month does not mean you have to keep the rent the same. There should be a premium paid for the privilege of being able to move out with 30 days notice.

Stop backing up. Stick to your guns. If you want to raise the rent, you're the owner and you can charge whatever you want. If he doesn't like it or the terms of the lease he is free to move.

I'm surprised you waited this long to inform your tenant about a new lease or the price going up. I usually tell my tenants a month or two prior to their lease being up that I have a new lease ready and any price change so both of us will know what is going on. If they don't like the terms and I want to keep them as tenants I might make a small change to the lease.

It sounds like you are allowing your tenant to dictate the terms of your property. If you want to keep him, I would let him know what your rental terms are and he can sign it or decline. If he refuses then send a legal notice that his lease will not be renewed. Normally a lease converts to month to month when it expires so you will be on a month to month lease starting April 1st anyways.

In the future I would sent notice about 90 days before the lease expires informing the tenant about the new rent and including a lease to sign with a deadline to renew. It should not be something u are discussing the month the lease ends.

My instinct is that this tenant is a hassle and I would just give notice that you are not renewing.

Serve notice. Nothing personal. I would say, you want to move I want you to move. Sign this. You can have him sign a document you write up terminating on x date with a carry over daily penalty. Be nice say look we agree, lets set a date. About he is homeless, he is getting emotional, dont you get emotional too. Set a reasonable move out period. If they are old school have them fax the signed doc from staples or something. I am pretty sure they can fax to email.

We just inherited a tenant with a very similar mindset. He was "in charge" in his book. He was complaining about a litany of issues that were not existent. Literally one of them was the AC running constantly... Which he had set to On not Auto... 

Anyway... To keep things from getting personal you need to stick to your guns. If you say you're increasing rent... They're either paying more or leaving. They don't get to decide what/how you manage the property. 

Ryan Dossey, Real Estate Agent in IN (#RB15001099)

I used to could.... stay in conversations with people/tenants like this that's all about them and what they need. Try to bend and conform to the whims of the small minded, only to be left drained and frustrated.

Then I got old and callous and realized that attitude would start bleeding into all aspects of my relationships if I didn't take hold and control of the 3% PITA people that were wrecking my LL experience.

I just said this yesterday. "This is the last reply I'll give to all this. Either....  or don't. Your choice."  And that was just to a prospective applicant that wanted to stretch my accepting 1 animal into 2 or 3.  She chose to thank me for my time and let it go vs losing the chance to ever be placed in one of my animal-friendly places ever again.

Do or don't. Your choice.  One of my favorites the last few years and relevant here.

Let them leave. The disrespect for each other already started ..... Adios.

Thank you all for your replies! So I will no signed the renewal lease, I am going to give them 60 days notice of rent will be increase extra $100, from $1300 to $1400, starting 6/1/2018.

So we will be month to month by default now ?

Should I hire a property management company to handle it?

Yes I agree, funny thing is they thank me big time every time I do something for them. I think that’s just how they trick me.

Originally posted by @Liz C. :

Thank you all for your replies! So I will no signed the renewal lease, I am going to give them 60 days notice of rent will be increase extra $100, from $1300 to $1400, starting 6/1/2018.

So we will be month to month by default now ?

Should I hire a property management company to handle it?

Yes I agree, funny thing is they thank me big time every time I do something for them. I think that’s just how they trick me.

 Good call on the rent raise and not 'renewing' a lease.  I never do lease renewals anyway.  Just reminds them to maybe move.  With most I don't want to do that!

It will most likely default to m-m.  Depends on the language of the lease and  your state landlord-tenant law.  Just outline it black and white in your notice if there could be confusion.  

Some folks just work better with a PM buffer.  I've outgrown bringing any drama home for the most part, but it's a personal choice.  Just from this discussion I gather you are an extremely nice person that may be better served with a PM. Do or don't.  The choice is yours :) j/k

@Liz C. I would agree with people telling you to stick to your guns, but it is too late for that. You caved in on rent and lease term and made an agreement with him. I know it isn't signed, but you verbally negotiated the contract and gave it to him to sign. To go back now and refuse the offer is not professional.

You mishandled this from the get go. @Steve Vaughan gave great advice on the way you should handle things. You give people a choice "do or don't". I like this method because you never need to say no to anyone. I call it the options plan. Give your tenant two or three choices and let them pick. Be firm that "these are my only options". By offering only options, you control the outcome and people feel like they have control because they are making the choice.

Here is how I would have handled your situation:

Dear tenant, due to increasing operating costs and higher property taxes, it will be necessary to offer a slight rent increase. Please make your choice and respond by March XX, 2018.

1. You can lock in the $20 increase with a 1 year lease.

2. Pay $70 more on a month to month plan. 

3. Vacate the property.

@Joe Splitrock - reminds me of a 'love language' or 'healthy options' class we took on parenting years back.  Kids need a choice.  Do this or get a beating.  Your choice.  LOL  

You don't have to be a kid to appreciate a choice.  The small me-minded love having a choice and feeling they controlled the situation!  Excellent post!

Originally posted by @Steve Vaughan :

@Joe Splitrock - reminds me of a 'love language' or 'healthy options' class we took on parenting years back.  Kids need a choice.  Do this or get a beating.  Your choice.  LOL  

You don't have to be a kid to appreciate a choice.  The small me-minded love having a choice and feeling they controlled the situation!  Excellent post!

Managing tenants and parenting are very similar. I have to laugh because I think I learned the trick in a parenting book then applied it to my rental properties. The trick to making choices work is pick what you want the outcome to be, then add two addition choices that suck so bad nobody would pick them. 

I prefer to equate managing tenants to training a new puppy. You must be strict and firm at all times otherwise they become confused and you will never be able to house break them. Bad tenants are not born they are created by bad landlords.

You should be looking to hire a PM. You do not have the skill set required to be a self manage landlord.

Managing tennats is beyond your present ability.

Stop giving so many choices and letting this guy run your business. IF you want to keep him as a tenants I would give him a notice of rent raise of x amount. Month to month only at x rate or yearly at x rate. But I won’t keep the rent the same. 

Personally if a tenant becomes too difficult I give notice to terminate lease. 

Originally posted by @Donald S. :
@Joe Splitrock that's brilliant, I've always heard give them options, never heard the give them want you want and 2 no one would choose. I'm using that.

It works well in your day job too. Whenever presenting a problem to my boss or coworkers, I always give three choices of what we can do to resolve a problem. I have even had people comment back, why would I pick option A or C, it seems like B is the best choice. I just say, if you think that is best, we will go with B. Of course B was my first choice all along, haha.

Hi all, thank you so much for all your replies, giving an update , talked to the agent who sold property to me, he say he is going to talk to them, I say the only choice is $50 raise and will raise another $50 every 6 month until they move out. And I ask my agent to ha for them. However I know he is super busy guy.

Option 2: talked to a PM company who charges 10% of the rent, say he will handle everything, he ask me what I want I told him I want them out. He say he can take care of that. I like this guy a lot.

Which option is the best. Let agent handle and see how it goes can alway turn to PM later or let PM handle now.

Spend whole morning talking to agent and few PM company. On the side note the same agent is the one who sold property to me. And he is on the coop board of the same building and he is the one who find the current tenant.

@Ola Dantis thanks, but I do not even wish to talk to him over the phone no to mention meet face to face. Is disgusting every time he contact me. Negotiating stuff by the pennies.

Originally posted by @Joe Splitrock :
Originally posted by @Steve Vaughan:

@Joe Splitrock - reminds me of a 'love language' or 'healthy options' class we took on parenting years back.  Kids need a choice.  Do this or get a beating.  Your choice.  LOL  

You don't have to be a kid to appreciate a choice.  The small me-minded love having a choice and feeling they controlled the situation!  Excellent post!

Managing tenants and parenting are very similar. I have to laugh because I think I learned the trick in a parenting book then applied it to my rental properties. The trick to making choices work is pick what you want the outcome to be, then add two addition choices that suck so bad nobody would pick them. 

I would add that the choice you prefer them to make is the one you list last, then the one next to last be your second choice, and so on if there are more choices being offered. The goal is to get what YOU want by letting the tenant think that's what they want ;)

Thank you all for your advice, I am hiring a PM to deal with that tenant. Don’t think I want to deal with him anymore. Thanks to biggerpocket community make me realize that I have been taking advantage of it

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