My Tenant is Out of her MIND!

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My Tenant is Out of her MIND!

Val J.
Rental Property Investor · DFW · Member since 2015 · 89 posts · 36 votes

I met with my tenant regarding how we would move forward this year in my property. She began her tenancy with at 10/2016. In 2017  at renewal time, I sent her a notice letting her know that she'd be on a month to month lease. The tenant has moved in her baby daddy and another person.  I met with her at a public location because I assumed , correctly, he is a very hostile individual. The meeting didn't go well. I recorded our conversation. My tenant told me that since she's on M2M she is not legally bound by a lease and can move in whomever she wants. .  She shows me information from the internet (which I already knew) regarding M2M leases. Which of course it stated that I had to give her 30 days. . Which is what I was doing today. Tenant also stated that I could not ask her to leave without having cause.  I explained to her that M2M leases are legally binding. And per her thinking if she can move anyone into the property so could I.  Baby daddy interjected, "So  "Baby, did  you sign anything stating you can't have your man live with you?" She had lots of stuff from the internet in a file folder. I asked her to show me proof that she can move anyone in and secondly, show me proof a landlord who has a tenant on an M2M has to show cause.  

I checked my account prior to meeting with her and she hasn't paid rent.

Baby daddy started getting hostile and I gathered my things.  He started cussing and yelling " she can't do ****!"  Let's stay there for 3 months. I get mail there. She can't put us out we can stay for 3 months!.

Okay fellow BPer's,  I know some of you have experienced this or worse. I'm thinking that I will call a landlord/tenant attorney Monday morning. Any recommendations?

Btw. prior to our meeting I had sent a notice to vacate via USPS and asked for a signature return receipt.   Help!

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Greg H.Pro Member
Moderator
Broker/Flipper · Austin, TX · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
7y

If she is not current on her rent, send a 3 day notice to terminate via certified and regular mail and file eviction if she does not become current.  You can for a lease violation as well but an eviction for a lease violation is not a certainty even though she is incorrect in her interpetation

If she is current, send a 30 day notice to terminate the month to month agreement

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  • Neil Schoepp
    Real Estate Investor · Milford, PA · Member since 2014 · 395 posts · 299 votes
    7y

    Not sure if you have this or not but give it a look.

    Texas property code

    Scroll down to page 539 that's where Landlord Tenant starts.

    I cannot speak to Texas, in most jurisdictions if an annual lease was signed and not renewed it goes to month to month. All the terms of that original lease still hold. 

    Yes, 30 days notice is needed (some places it's 60 days) if you choose to not lease the unit to them. As for a reason when ask I would simply state that I am choosing not to rent it at this time. This avoids personal feelings and he said she said scenario's. Besides you don't want to give a reason that could give them wiggle room. Less is more here.

    If I were in your situation I would be serving a Notice to vacate, as you did. I would make sure that you served it correctly per the law. This starts the clock. 

    As for the Baby Daddy as you refer to him, there will be a law, (in my lease I use 5 days) as to how many consecutive nights your client can have a guess. Once he has pass that time she is in violation and you may precede with eviction. On a Month to Month the eviction will take longer and you have the burden of proof. 

    I would simply over look, but document the guess staying pass the allotted time. I would serve her notice per the law that you will not be renewing her month to month lease and she will have to vacate. The manner in which you serve this notice is EXTREMELY important as when she doesn't vacate you will immediately move to evict and it will be based on her being served the notice to vacate. Some jurisdictions want you to certify mail it, some want you to post it to the front door. Some want both, some want specific information given. The process will be in the law link above or by visiting the courts.

    It's never a bad idea to visit with an attorney. I would find one that works for a flat rate as oppose to an hourly.

    Above all else never lose your composure. This is business and you are to act and be professional at ALL times. (Even though you want to kick them in the as* and send them on their way)

    12Reply
  • Greg H.Pro Member
    Moderator
    Broker/Flipper · Austin, TX · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    7y

    If she is not current on her rent, send a 3 day notice to terminate via certified and regular mail and file eviction if she does not become current.  You can for a lease violation as well but an eviction for a lease violation is not a certainty even though she is incorrect in her interpetation

    If she is current, send a 30 day notice to terminate the month to month agreement

    13Reply
  • Val J.
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · DFW · Member since 2015 · 89 posts · 36 votes
    7y

    @Neil Schoepp

    Thanks for the information. Prior to our meeting I had read the TPC to insure that I am in compliance with my notifications

    0Reply
  • Val J.
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · DFW · Member since 2015 · 89 posts · 36 votes
    7y

    @Greg H.

    Thanks.  I'm thinking of acquiring an attorney to deal with them.

    0Reply
  • Jerel Ehlert
    Attorney · Austin, TX · Member since 2014 · 890 posts · 759 votes
    7y

    @Ronald Rohde might be a fit.  Process is pretty straight forward.  If the occupants start intentionally damaging the property, call the cops and file a criminal complaint.  Same for suspected criminal activity.

    0Reply
  • Ryan Evans
    Rental Property Investor · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2016 · 653 posts · 769 votes
    7y

    I just had a nutjob tenant who tried to do something equally crazy and kept citing all kinds of laws and making false claims. It's not worth the headache to stoop to their level. Plus, you'll never beat irrationality with logic. 

    Having an attorney handle the whole eviction process should only cost a couple hundred dollars more than it would to file on your own, so keep looking for one! 

    If you can, maybe try to find a reason to do an inspection to grab photos of the place for evidence in case they trash it. But with the unpaid rent you've got an easy eviction case. If your lease states what @Neil Schoepp said about guests, then you've got a second solid reason to get her out. 

    4Reply
  • Thomas S.
    Member since 2016 · 13k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    7y

    Do not concern yourself with their BS, it is not relevant. You should be serving the tenant with two notices. One to pay or quit and the other to give notice to non renew the lease. Send them both.

    They have already made it clear they intend to stay rent free, you will have to evict

    11Reply
  • Val J.
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · DFW · Member since 2015 · 89 posts · 36 votes
    7y

    @Jerel Ehler

    When we met yesterday, the boyfriend got belligerent and I ended the meeting.  I have his behavior on a record. Also so then I've gone on to do a search on him to find out the he was recently released from TDC, he is also a RSO and has a less than stellar past. 

    1Reply
  • Terrell Garren
    Rental Property Investor · Concord, NC · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    7y

    Others have provided good guidance. My question @Val J. is did the tenant not raise any flags or concerns during your screening process? 

    I wish you the best. 

    2Reply
  • Meredith Fox
    Rental Property Investor · Akron, OH · Member since 2018 · 30 posts · 32 votes
    7y

    Skip the drama and post a 3 day for non payment. You are not obligated to accept rent. This saves you from any other discussions about who is living in the place and a judge won't care about their sob story if they haven't paid. If they send you money you can send it back. Might be worth the lost rent to get them out. 

    4Reply
  • Val J.
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · DFW · Member since 2015 · 89 posts · 36 votes
    7y

    @Terrell Garren

    Nothing that stood out.    During the years she's been a tenant he's never been in the picture of course,  because I yesterday I found out that he was recently released from incarceration.  Her background only showed minor traffic tickets. This issue with the guy is all new. But, once I looked into him (after digging around for his name)  and looking into criminal record databases I've come to  see that this individual is Frankenstein and she's the bride. He's a ticking time bomb! And the tenant seems totally under his control.

    3Reply
  • Val J.
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · DFW · Member since 2015 · 89 posts · 36 votes
    7y

    @Meredith Fox

    Thanks for the advice. I plan to do just as you've suggested.  Tenant hasn't paid and has no intention to do so. 

    1Reply
  • James Wise
    Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 31k+ posts · 20k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Val J.:

    I met with my tenant regarding how we would move forward this year in my property. She began her tenancy with at 10/2016. In 2017  at renewal time, I sent her a notice letting her know that she'd be on a month to month lease. The tenant has moved in her baby daddy and another person.  I met with her at a public location because I assumed , correctly, he is a very hostile individual. The meeting didn't go well. I recorded our conversation. My tenant told me that since she's on M2M she is not legally bound by a lease and can move in whomever she wants. .  She shows me information from the internet (which I already knew) regarding M2M leases. Which of course it stated that I had to give her 30 days. . Which is what I was doing today. Tenant also stated that I could not ask her to leave without having cause.  I explained to her that M2M leases are legally binding. And per her thinking if she can move anyone into the property so could I.  Baby daddy interjected, "So  "Baby, did  you sign anything stating you can't have your man live with you?" She had lots of stuff from the internet in a file folder. I asked her to show me proof that she can move anyone in and secondly, show me proof a landlord who has a tenant on an M2M has to show cause.  

    I checked my account prior to meeting with her and she hasn't paid rent.

    Baby daddy started getting hostile and I gathered my things.  He started cussing and yelling " she can't do ****!"  Let's stay there for 3 months. I get mail there. She can't put us out we can stay for 3 months!.

    Okay fellow BPer's,  I know some of you have experienced this or worse. I'm thinking that I will call a landlord/tenant attorney Monday morning. Any recommendations?

    Btw. prior to our meeting I had sent a notice to vacate via USPS and asked for a signature return receipt.   Help!

     This is simple. She hasn't paid rent so start the eviction process. Sounds like the baby daddy has been through the process before as he kept saying "we can stay for 3 months." He appears to be ready to stay there while you wait for the eviction to be completed. Nothing you can do to speed up the court's timeline so just evict them & move on when you get your property back. I do not recommend you engage in any further communication with these two from now on either. Nothing good can come from arguing with them. Evict & move on.

    7Reply
  • Val J.
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · DFW · Member since 2015 · 89 posts · 36 votes
    7y

    @James Wise

    I'm with you on on each step suggested specifically with cutting off communication. I did just that when I began to pack my things at the meeting while he ranted and spouted his limited knowledge of landlord/tenant guidelines. He tried to goad me as well in the parking lot with additional  blah, blah blah. Which I ignored them and drove off.  

    3Reply
  • Dan R.
    Fort Polk, LA · Member since 2018 · 41 posts · 47 votes
    7y
    @Val Jaz TDC = ?, RSO = Range Safety Officer?
    3Reply
  • Val J.
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · DFW · Member since 2015 · 89 posts · 36 votes
    7y

    @Dan R.

    TDC = Texas Department of Corrections

    RSO = Registered S@# Offender

    0Reply
  • Mary M.
    Rental Property Investor · Portland OR · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    7y

    I would file notices as per local law to end tenancy and I would lawyer up ( just to have backup in case you need it). Do not talk to her or anyone else who lives there. Do everything via legal notices. 

    1Reply
  • Dan R.
    Fort Polk, LA · Member since 2018 · 41 posts · 47 votes
    7y

    Thank you for sharing this, it's opening my eyes to required growth before landlording.

    RSO could be public urination and then getting lippy with a cop, or violent pedophile...though getting out of jail or worse prison...they aren't the best people to associate with...or to have in a unit. Convicts frequently have a good understanding of laws, an advantage that people tend to underestimate their intelligence, and knowledge of how the criminal justice system works. Prisons are colleges in evil.

    3Reply
  • Thomas S.
    Member since 2016 · 13k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    7y

    Talk to the police. It may be possible for you to serve him (have the police serve him) with a no trespass notice since he is not a tenant on lease. I do this with undesirables moving in to my units.

    If you can serve the notice the police will arrest him for trespassing. This could get them all out quicker than an eviction.

    5Reply
  • Val J.
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · DFW · Member since 2015 · 89 posts · 36 votes
    7y

    @Thomas S

    Thanks for the tip! This is something I hadn't considered. I will look into this. However, I fear that she will just let him back in.  The info. I found in his background suggest so.

    0Reply
  • Ariel K.
    TX · Member since 2018 · 154 posts · 92 votes
    7y

    @Val Jaz I don’t know much about this, but you could do cash for keys to try and get them out...say a couple hundred provided they leave the place clean and not damaged. It sucks short term but may get your property back.

    1Reply
  • Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
    7y

    @Val J. you definitely need to hire an attorney immediately. Get rid of them, period.

    My advice is for you to seriously consider hiring a property manager to handle your rental. You should never allow a tenant to argue with you and certainly not be abusive towards you. There are far too many mistakes going on here and it's going to bite you in the backside one of these days.

    The DIY Landlord Book4.7244 Reviews
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    4Reply
  • Casey Powers
    Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2018 · 405 posts · 474 votes
    7y

    Lol. From what I hear about Texas, they are mistaken to think you can’t put them out. When I have a problem tenant like this in Nevada, I post a 30 day no-cause notice to terminate, as well as a pay or quit notice. That means if they don’t pay, I can evict them for nonpayment in less than a month. If they do pay rent, I can still toss them on the 30 day notice. Either way, they will be leaving shortly.

    I do not have meetings with tenants who are causing problems and blatantly rule-breaking. It’s a waste of time. If it’s not a payment issue, I will give them a warning with a deadline to fix in writing first, then if they don’t fix the problem by my deadline, I start the formal notices and follow through.

    If there is a payment issue, I go straight to the formal notice and follow through.

    I do not negotiate. They will either comply or get out. It costs more in the long run to “work with” problem renters, than to just replace them with better tenants. So I don’t cut them any slack.

    These folks would be getting their formal notices from me on Monday.

    2Reply
  • Laura Kayes
    Property Manager · San Antonio, TX · Member since 2018 · 75 posts · 70 votes
    7y

    Hi @Val J.,

    Give the tenants 30 day notice to move out per the M2M lease and continue with the eviction process if rent is still not paid. The eviction process in Texas once filed in the courts takes 21 business days. 

    0Reply
  • Kenneth GarrettPro Member
    Investor · Florida Panhandle/Illinois · Member since 2016 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    7y

    @Val J.

    Sorry for your drama.  You have two situations that you need to address.  Ending the month to month lease:

    You must provide the same amount of notice (one month) as the landlord. Be sure to check your rental agreement which may require that your notice to end the tenancy be given on the first of the month or on another specific date.

    In some situations, you may be able to move out with less (or no) notice—for example, if your landlord seriously violates the rental agreement or fails to fulfill legal responsibilities affecting your health or safety.

    Secondly serve the 3 day notice.

    Serve the notice as follows:

    The Notice to Vacate must be in writing, and include the following information:

    • date the notice was served on the tenant(s)
    • name(s) and address of tenant(s) rental unit
    • the reason for the notice (that the tenant failed to pay rent for a specified period of time)
    • a statement that the tenant has three days to move out, including the final date and time by which the tenant must be out of the property
    • an ultimatum that the landlord may pursue legal action (an eviction lawsuit) if the tenant does not move, and
    • a statement specifying how the notice was given to the tenant, either by actually giving the notice to the tenant or mailing the notice
    0Reply
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