Main line misfortune...or was it?

Question

We bought our first SF rental property this past fall just outside Denver. We went through all the initial inspections, made some larger replacements like a new electrical box and furnace and were lucky enough to find WONDERFUL tenants. Things were running smoothly.

Fast forward 6 months and the tenants informed us they have water backing up in the basement drain (laundry room). No problem, called a roto rooter type company as I thought this was just a clogged drain since WE HAD THE MAIN LINE SCOPED AND CLEANED 6 MONTHS AGO. Turns out there is a belly in the main line and a weakening where roots are entering the line. Prognonsis- you need a new main line.

The house was built in 61, the pipes are clay, the main line had never been replaced- we knew this would be a risk when we bought the home. What irks me most is, shouldn't the scope/sewer line inspection company have seen this? Could things have changed that much in 6 months? On top of all of this the company that did the scope ONLY provides that service- as in, they won't clean it, repair it, etc. as they explained, by only doing the inspection it allows them to be unbiased. They came to scope it originally, said they couldn't until we had it cleaned bc there were too many roots interfering with the inspection. So we hired another company to clean it and then they came back (and charged us again) to do another scope.

Calling on my BP community to help me understand if I've just hated this company from the beginning and this is all reasonable and par for the course OR they made a mistake and now we've missed our window to ask the seller for any kind of $$ concession.

Ranty and never thought I would spend so much time on plumbing,

Marj

Bill Crow · Answer

@Marjorie Patton

Wait.... the inspector told you there were too many roots in the drain for them to scope it? There’s your clue - the pipe was already breached before you ever started. Shouldn’t be a surprise that the roots grew back.

Dominique Pradel-Lewis · Answer

@Marjorie Patton sorry to hear about your misfortune but after everything is said and done you will need to address that tree cause it will keep coming back!

Johann Jells · Answer

I t seems to be you've gotten into the weeds making no distinction between a sewer and water main lines. I'm familiar with the trenchless water, but are they really doing it with 4" sewer mains? And that method above does not sound like a water main method.

Jim Goebel · Answer

@Marjorie Patton

Hi Marjorie:

As Charlie Munger said, don't ask the roofer if you need a new roof.  (or something to that effect).  Or at the very least, don't be surprised when the roofer says you need a new one, and by the way, they can provide (at a very fair price, no doubt) - sarcasm is present by the way.

I realize there's some specialized equipment that is 'supposedly' going to provide relevant info for something like this.  Did you see the video?  Do you buy it?  Did they give you the electronic copy?  Have you showed it to someone else qualified that doesn't have a 'dog in the fight'?

I've been through this exact situation where Roto Rooter (the one and only) came out and gave me this spiel after some dog and pony joke of an investigative effort with their camera.  This was after them handing me a bill for far more than what was verbally discussed for a NTE to run a large auger and 2 guys did actual work about 20% of the time that I was observing (the whole time).  They were apparently more interested in trying to impress me with their scare tactics and feeling threatened by someone asking them a million questions, I guess.

Anyways, fast forward now about 3.5 years, and after WE got out there and rented a massive drain auger and ran it for a few hours - and we have  not had ONE more issue with the drain line on that house.

Roto Rooter makes bank - and they do it on a culture of intimidation, scare tactics, and lack of understanding on the part of their customers.  Go look at their financial results.  People running augers shouldn't be making 20-30% margins on their work.  They do that by doing exactly what they did to you, as much as they are allowed - and to a lot of people.

Here's what I'd advise: get the electronic copy of whatever camera scoping they did.

In my case, after asking, they didn't provide.

Go rent a big auger from the local big box store with a Rental Center.  Do the hard work of running that auger on your line for minimum of 2-3 hours.  If you're above that, or don't have time for that, you may want to evaluate your commitment to being in this business.

After you have spent that time and money doing that, THEN be more open to evaluating a comprehensive project that will easily be 50x the cost often than what I suggested.  I wouldn't trust a roto rooter to do what I just said.  I'd do it.

Chuy Gonzalez · Answer

It's just one of those things. Wait til your water heater blows up...guaranteed it happens on a Sunday about 3pm.  : )

Marjorie Patton · Answer

Thank you, all! I've talked to a couple plumbers at this point and it seems the trenchless may not be a fit as everyone I've spoken to still thinks that we'd still have the problem of the flat spot or belly in the line that wouldn't be alleviated with anything other than replacing a portion of the main line.

Lynnette E. · Answer

They can and do use trenchless technology for both water delivery and sewer lines.  The exact method that is used is based on the type of pipe that failed more so than the material being transported.  At lease it used to be.

And they can and do do pipes much larger than 4 inch.

Here is a link for one company. I am not affiliated with any of the companies that do this work and know nothing about how good or bad this company is to work with.  I am just providing the information to show the possible technology.  My background Is government, and in this case Clean Water Act enforcement, a few decades ago.  There is no reason to dig up a yard now a days.

http://www.trenchless-sewerlinereplacement.com/why...

Lynnette E. · Answer

It is sometimes called pipe bursting in some types of trenchless technology. It that case they run a new pipe that is like a soft gluey ziplock bag in consistency through the old pipe.  They then use a dryer that blows hot air through the bag and it expands, bursts the original pipe and hardens into a new pipe.  I oversaw a lot of that in the late 1990s in Pittsburgh area.  So if they do not respond to trenchless technology try the pipe bursting term.

Marjorie Patton · Answer

@Lynnette E. "I told the realtor to go pound sand" HA, love it! I had no idea about the trenchless technology- i'll have to look into that. $2500-$3500 is certainly better than $5700 which is the first quote I've received thus far.

Lynnette E. · Answer

I have replaced 2 main water lines in the past month.  They can use trenchless technology now.  They just dig a hole at each end of the line.  Its expensive==$2500 for one and $3500 for the other, but one line was 100 years old, and the other its the 3rd replacement on a 1970s house.

I think the cameras are pretty useless.

The lady who purchased my mom's house paid for this service and the recording showed a big hole at 200 feet.  Silly folks went into the line from the toilet instead of the main clean out that was 15 feet from the toilet, but whatever!

The buyer wanted $5k credit for plumbing repairs.  I told the realtor she could pound sand.  The toilet to the street was less than 100 feet.  I even showed her exactly where the line went through the yard...and where the pipe connected to the main sewer.  200 feet away, that big hole they were sooo concerned about was the house next door's pipe entering the main line. It entered just as is should, no problem.   And the city is responsible for anything on the main line anyway.

They thought I was stupid an would not know that 200 feet from the toilet was not my mom's responsibility as it was past where her house connected to the main line.  And they had to know as their camera went into the bigger main line.

And they then wanted me to pay for the inspection.

Such scammers.

Main line misfortune...or was it?

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