Rental Property Investor · Ottawa, ON · Member since 2019 · 68 posts · 225 votes
We’ve offered them incentives, we’re honouring their preferred showing times (which is very restrictive) and doing everything we can to make this easier on them. They have a sick child so we offered them half month’s rent back as a sign of good faith that we’re sorry for putting them through this and they never said thank you and now they’re not paying their owed rent and ignoring us completely. Anybody been through something like this?? Any tips??
Real Estate Broker · Hyde Park Tampa, FL · Member since 2019 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
7y
You meant well and you're very kind. And, you've given your control away. The truth is the tenant has to pay rent, you're allowed to sell your property at any time, they have to accommodate showing requests (check your lease/landlord-tenant laws about notice) and you don't owe them incentives to do what you are lawfully allowed to do with your property. Time to take control back. I recommend issuing a Notice To Quit for Non-Payment of Rent today. I would also note a Quit for failure to provide inspection/showing of unit with proper notice. This action should get them to pay their rent immediately to cure the default and then do not discuss anything further. When you have a showing request, submit it in writing to them providing the proper notice. Expect them to comply.
Again, you acted respectfully and with kindness. They did not appreciate it so please do not reward unkindness with kindness. No one is going to purchase the property with THAT non-paying, passive-aggressive tenant so time to cure the problem now.
Real Estate Broker · Hyde Park Tampa, FL · Member since 2019 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
7y
You meant well and you're very kind. And, you've given your control away. The truth is the tenant has to pay rent, you're allowed to sell your property at any time, they have to accommodate showing requests (check your lease/landlord-tenant laws about notice) and you don't owe them incentives to do what you are lawfully allowed to do with your property. Time to take control back. I recommend issuing a Notice To Quit for Non-Payment of Rent today. I would also note a Quit for failure to provide inspection/showing of unit with proper notice. This action should get them to pay their rent immediately to cure the default and then do not discuss anything further. When you have a showing request, submit it in writing to them providing the proper notice. Expect them to comply.
Again, you acted respectfully and with kindness. They did not appreciate it so please do not reward unkindness with kindness. No one is going to purchase the property with THAT non-paying, passive-aggressive tenant so time to cure the problem now.
@Natalie Cloutier I'd start eviction proceedings. You can hire an eviction attorney which may cost more, but will be easier in the long run. Some people are not accommodating and the nicer you are, the worse it gets. When I wanted to sell one of my rentals, I made sure it was empty so I could do some quick renos before putting it on the market.
Rental Property Investor · Ottawa, ON · Member since 2019 · 68 posts · 225 votes
7y
@Patricia Steiner thank you for the info!! the laws in Ontario are tough though, it’s hard to kick someone out. They are abiding by the 24 hour notice but since they don’t want showings after 6 pm they said if there’s a showing at that time they will just stay during the showing (which legally they are allowed to do) and will kill the interest.
For the non payment of rent I just told them that I would be sending a legal notice for non-payment of rent and she replied right away all angry at us for threatening and that they will pay tonight. (My message wasn’t threatening at all)
Lesson learned: TAKE ALL EMOTIONS OUT OF IT and we won’t be so kind next time.
We’ve offered them incentives, we’re honouring their preferred showing times (which is very restrictive) and doing everything we can to make this easier on them. They have a sick child so we offered them half month’s rent back as a sign of good faith that we’re sorry for putting them through this and they never said thank you and now they’re not paying their owed rent and ignoring us completely. Anybody been through something like this?? Any tips??
If your target buyer is an owner occupant you need to move the tenants out before trying to sell. Doing anything else is a disaster and you'll undoubtedly end up selling for less than what you could have while putting in 10x the effort.
Austin, TX · Member since 2019 · 5k+ posts · 5k+ votes
7y
"...They have a sick child so we offered them half month’s rent back as a sign of good faith that we’re sorry for putting them through this..." (???...???)
@Natalie Cloutier It can be hard to keep emotions out of it, but you are better off when you do. Are you on a lease or month to month? If the latter, I would just give them notice. From what you've said they aren't going to improve and it can delay the closing depending on how much notice you have to give and the timing. Check the rules for Ontario.
Real Estate Agent · Virginia Beach, VA · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
7y
It's usually better to sell it vacant unless you really are trying to sell to an investor with tenant in place at a lower price so it's a good value for the investor. Even then, tenants who are afraid new owner may force them to move will do their best to wreck the sale.
Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2017 · 135 posts · 294 votes
7y
You expect the tenants to abide by your lease and uphold every portion of it. In turn your tenants expect you to honor their one year lease (or whatever the duration).
Put yourself in their shoes, how would you feel if 6 months into your lease the landlord was trying to get you to leave because it was more convenient for the landlord and his financial goals? Do you think they want to spend hours searching for a new place in the same school district so as not to uproot the kids? Then go through the hassle of packing up and moving? Would you be very happy or responsive? I would't say, "thank you" if I was them either, I would choose a different two word sentence that also ended with 'you'.
You may have asked them politely to vacate early, but the simple fact that you asked them to leave before their lease was up was very hostile and now you are getting the blow back from that.
If Canadian laws are anything like US laws, then they are under no obligation to leave, nor are they under any obligation to bend over backwards so that you can show the property whenever is convenient for you. Always sell a home when it is vacant, an investor likely doesn't want to inherit your tenants because they are not the ones who screened them, and it means that they are bound by the terms that you put in the lease instead of using the lease that they normally use. And an owner occupied can't occupy it until the lease is up. Either way a vacant house is what you should always be selling.
Rental Property Investor · Ottawa, ON · Member since 2019 · 68 posts · 225 votes
7y
@Bob Daniels I never asked them to leave? To the contrary I offered incentives that if they stay until its sold and they cooperate during the sale but basically through all our offers and accommodations they are still unappreciative.
Rental Property Investor · Ottawa, ON · Member since 2019 · 68 posts · 225 votes
7y
@Bob Daniels but ya that’s what we have to figure out now. How to get them out. We were focused on not having to support the house while its for sale but now we see the downside. Thanks for the info :)
Rental Property Investor · Hamilton, Ontario · Member since 2015 · 5 posts · 0 votes
7y
What type of property is this? Single family home? The new buyer, if they wish to owner occupy, can remove the tenants easily enough as long as they are not within a lease term. As for the tenants, you've already learned it is better to be firm with your rights as a landlord. Btw this can be done while still being kind. You have to train your tenants to be "good"!
@Patricia Steiner thank you for the info!! the laws in Ontario are tough though, it’s hard to kick someone out. They are abiding by the 24 hour notice but since they don’t want showings after 6 pm they said if there’s a showing at that time they will just stay during the showing (which legally they are allowed to do) and will kill the interest.
For the non payment of rent I just told them that I would be sending a legal notice for non-payment of rent and she replied right away all angry at us for threatening and that they will pay tonight. (My message wasn’t threatening at all)
Lesson learned: TAKE ALL EMOTIONS OUT OF IT and we won’t be so kind next time.
I feel really bad for you man.. Ontario tenants are a nightmare when they know their rights and can take advantage of landlords.
If you can do it all over again.. I would have told the realtor to send out a prelist package to all the agents in the area about a week before it got listed.. Set aside a block of time aside for 3 consecutive days to get all the showings in.. At least you tried to get all the prospective buyers in there at that time vs scattered throughout the week. Its like an agents open house.. I know it may be too late?. But this will give ideas to other BP members
@Bob Daniels I never asked them to leave? To the contrary I offered incentives that if they stay until its sold and they cooperate during the sale but basically through all our offers and accommodations they are still unappreciative.
I'm super confused at the whole situation and a better explanation of the story would go a long ways in the community trying to assist you with answers. Either their lease is up or it is not.
If their lease is up then they should already be packing up so just sell the house empty, simple as that.
If their lease is not up, then you are implying that they are being forced out by asking them to stay until the house is sold. I mean why would you need to ask them to stay until the house is sold? It's their lease that dictates the move out date and the sale or non-sale of the property has nothing to do with when they have to move out, so why would you even inquire if they will stay until the sale?
If their lease is up and they are staying on a month to month lease, then asking them to stay until the sale is really a self serving action and not something that they should somehow feel appreciative about, regardless if they get a slight discount or not. I mean in this scenario you get to collect rent up until the very last day, and they have to not only find a new place to live and move out, but also move out based around your timelines and not theirs as well as reschedule their lives in the meantime so that you can bring strangers to view the space that they refer to as 'home'. If it's a month to month lease, give them the required amount of advanced warning that their lease is being terminated and sell the home empty.
A tenant in a single family home should never know that the home is being sold. There is only one way a situation like that would ever end....badly.
Rental Property Investor · Ottawa, ON · Member since 2019 · 68 posts · 225 votes
7y
@Bob Daniels ya doesn’t work like that in Ontario. They are on a month to month lease and you can’t make them move until house is actually sold. Trust me if I had a way of getting them out I would of done it already. Ontario laws are very protective of tenants. It’s stupid.
I had offered them to stay at first because I didn’t want to support this massive house until it sold.
Anyway, now they told us they found a place and will be moving soon.
@Bob Daniels ya doesn’t work like that in Ontario.
Gotcha that laws are different. While I have no idea what your laws are, in general I would probably never invest in an asset class like real estate if I had no way to force a tenant to leave at some point. We have some states here that are under rent control and as long as the tenant wants to stay, they are allowed to stay as long as they are paying and not doing anything illegal. I would never own property in a place where I don't have some form of control.
But glad they found a place and it will eventually come to a decent resolution for you.
Rental Property Investor · Ottawa, ON · Member since 2019 · 68 posts · 225 votes
7y
@Bob Daniels it’s not that bad. We do have control as long as they pay rent and take care of the house. Its just that listing the house is not cause for getting them out. Selling the house is. But until its sold they have the right to stay.