Landlords... Stop being so hard on your tenants

125 Replies

Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs :
Originally posted by @James Wise:
Originally posted by @Jason Allen:
Originally posted by @James Wise:
Originally posted by @Jason Allen:

I've been reading through the forums here and I've read a lot of posts about how the tenants should have the money saved up to pay rent in an emergency, and if not they should use a credit card or the money in their retirement account to pay rent.

Yes, they signed a contract to pay a certain dollar amount for a certain period of time but no one saw this disaster coming.

Instead of forcing them into debt or draining their retirement accounts why don't you just let them leave. Let them break the lease and go live with family or friends. Or you can give them a lower dollar amount to pay for the next 90 days.

The truth is that you should have adequate reserves for situations like this as a "professional investor". Try to have some compassion for the average person who makes very little money compared to you and probably lives paycheck to paycheck.

 Do you think it's practical to ask Grocery stores to give discounts on food whenever someone is having a tough time? Should Walmart do the same when they're selling t-shirts? Where do you draw the line?

 If it was the deciding factor in whether or not they stayed in business I'm sure they'd consider it.

I'm not saying let them live there for free. I'm saying to 1. agree on a lower payment and or 2. let them break the lease (keep the deposit if you'd like) BUT don't tell them to 1. leverage high interest credit cards, 2. use their retirement fund, 3. use their kids college fund, 4. etc...

 What does staying in business have to do with your thread? You haven't advocated for anything that would assist a struggling business keep from going under. Nor am I confident you'd even be qualified to do so.

james you being on the firing line with hundreds if not a thousand plus homes to manage I have to think you have had strategy communication with your owners and your tenants.. I just have one rental that is run by a PM and i have been getting updates from them on how they are planning to handle our tenant/property.. these are high end white collar professionals that i believe are still working.

I think the issue is not really a moral issue.. but it certainly is a reality issue.. Now 30 days ago I was pretty certain that without govmit help we were going to have an apocalypse in work force housing owners.. And made a post 30 days ago wanting to know how landlords would handle this as a business owner.. Most responded if they dont pay its not my problem and we evict etc.

As one who had to work out about 200 plus bad loans in the GFC that i held the paper on.. that taught me that workouts are best if you can do it.  No one should not pay their rent if they have the means.

And with all the fear on BP the last two weeks it appears through the stim package unemployment etc Big brother is going to come to the rescue and there should not be massive no pays.. at least I am thinking that.. 

The risk I see though for landlords is again kind of like the GFC were you had strategic defaults.. people made money they Could pay their mortgage but they chose to let their credit get trashed and squatted for years in many cases or walked.  I know at least how our C/D class renters operate and think ( having had 300 of those) and they get checks and I fear the last thing they are going to do is pay rent if they think there is a moratorium on paying etc.. that is where I see risk right now.

But working with tenants through this is just a REALITY and my thought is and us lenders learned the hard way that taking a tough stand with someone who cant pay you anyway is just going to lead to more trouble.

the idea that most renters have a 401k they can draw from or a big savings etc again in my experience at least in work force housing this thing dont really exist for many if not most.

Lastly one of my bizz partners owns a 150 unit B class in the northwest his manager sent an email and said be prepared for 40% no pays for one to three months.. now with all this bail out I dont think it will be that bad..  And for him who basically owns it free and clear its just lost revenue not a huge nut to crack..  But if you have 40% non pay with the crop of newbie syndicators and highly leveraged deals there could be some failures in those assets if this persisted for any length of time.

So bottom line now with bail out and with landlords being polite yet firm this should not be the worse case scenario many are worried about.

It has been a wake up call to highly  leveraged landlords though that 2 to 3 months reserves maybe inadequate for safety.

 

Amen!

 

Originally posted by @Gary L Wallman :
Originally posted by @Jason Allen:

I've been reading through the forums here and I've read a lot of posts about how the tenants should have the money saved up to pay rent in an emergency, and if not they should use a credit card or the money in their retirement account to pay rent.

Yes, they signed a contract to pay a certain dollar amount for a certain period of time but no one saw this disaster coming.

Instead of forcing them into debt or draining their retirement accounts why don't you just let them leave. Let them break the lease and go live with family or friends. Or you can give them a lower dollar amount to pay for the next 90 days.

The truth is that you should have adequate reserves for situations like this as a "professional investor". Try to have some compassion for the average person who makes very little money compared to you and probably lives paycheck to paycheck.

 Jason,

So now I'm a greedy pig because I expect people to pay me rent on a home I have a hundred grand invested in. As a "professional investor" I have purchased, renovated and made available a residence for a renter who would otherwise not be able to inhabit such a nice home. So then, I should allow them just not to pay me because times got tough for a minute.

News flash: It took years of hard work and sacrifice to build a Real Estate portfolio. Not 30 days of hardship.

Based on your less then brilliant criteria, there would be no "professional investors" in real estate any longer.  The masses would have no nice places to live and all would be fine in your make believe world.

Gary

Gary, I never said you were a greedy pig.

I'm saying that the world and the economy doesn't care about your hundred grand, they don't care about your hard work or You.

I've started and operated multiple businesses and I can tell you right now that hating the customer and treating them like cattle that pump out money is a great way to lose your hard earned business. A little compassion (NOT a slack hand doormat mentality) will go a long way.

Originally posted by @Patrick M. :

@James Wise , the original poster does not own properties. He has an interest in piling on landlords because he (proports) to have numerous outstanding leases on a number of rentals that he sublets on Airbnb. When things were going good, he told us all we were fools... now that things have gone south he wants to be able to simply "walk away" from the leases... He has started this thread purely out of self-interest. He has absolutely no interest in business models or anyone else's side of the story.

 Ha... not true I own over 500 MF units, and I'm not walking away from anything. 

@Jason Allen aside from you going on every post on BP and trying to desperately make your point... that LL's have a responsibility to support their tenants (other grown adults) and aside from you starting a thread telling landlords "to enjoy foreclosure"? in which the thread was ultimately removed... 

Don't know about you but having options available to tenants such as paying via credit card or taking out a temporary loan to make ends meet or waving certain fees... are options... which somehow you seem to disagree with because they aren't 'free'. Not saying LL's can't offer assistance but if they do... it is their decision to make... not an entitlement now and will never be, some just can't. Any assistance a LL can offer aside from their normal operations should be sees as a courtesy even if that option is solely the ability for the Tenant to make ends meet via CC - don't have to use it but for goddess sake stop asking for 'free' - all should take responsibility for their financial situation and stop expecting others to pick up their slack. I don't any landlord here wouldn't love to have any non-paying tenant END their lease and move out... so not quite sure what the argument is... MOST LL's WOULD ALLOW NON-PAYING TENANTS TO MOVE OUT... the reality which you fail to mention but which you are likely very aware as well as all other LL's is... that most non-paying tenants will not move out, so back to taking responsibility for your own situation... if a Tenant is unable to afford it and all the options offered to them just aren't their 'cup of tea' they can always downsize i.e. end lease and move out - most don't as we all very well know. 

 

Originally posted by @Jason Allen :
Originally posted by @Gary L Wallman:
Originally posted by @Jason Allen:

I've been reading through the forums here and I've read a lot of posts about how the tenants should have the money saved up to pay rent in an emergency, and if not they should use a credit card or the money in their retirement account to pay rent.

Yes, they signed a contract to pay a certain dollar amount for a certain period of time but no one saw this disaster coming.

Instead of forcing them into debt or draining their retirement accounts why don't you just let them leave. Let them break the lease and go live with family or friends. Or you can give them a lower dollar amount to pay for the next 90 days.

The truth is that you should have adequate reserves for situations like this as a "professional investor". Try to have some compassion for the average person who makes very little money compared to you and probably lives paycheck to paycheck.

 Jason,

So now I'm a greedy pig because I expect people to pay me rent on a home I have a hundred grand invested in. As a "professional investor" I have purchased, renovated and made available a residence for a renter who would otherwise not be able to inhabit such a nice home. So then, I should allow them just not to pay me because times got tough for a minute.

News flash: It took years of hard work and sacrifice to build a Real Estate portfolio. Not 30 days of hardship.

Based on your less then brilliant criteria, there would be no "professional investors" in real estate any longer.  The masses would have no nice places to live and all would be fine in your make believe world.

Gary

Gary, I never said you were a greedy pig.

I'm saying that the world and the economy doesn't care about your hundred grand, they don't care about your hard work or You.

I've started and operated multiple businesses and I can tell you right now that hating the customer and treating them like cattle that pump out money is a great way to lose your hard earned business. A little compassion (NOT a slack hand doormat mentality) will go a long way.

 Jason,

Perhaps I misunderstood. My apologies.

I own seven small car dealerships in addition to my RE investing so I agree wholeheartedly about treating your customers well. Have to to grow, want to to be a human being.

Disagree a little bit about the economy. It may not care about my hundred grand or hard work, but it sure does care about all our hundred grands and hard work cumulatively.  Without producers, consumers have nothing to consume and cease to exist along with our economy.

Gary

Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs :
Originally posted by @James Wise:
Originally posted by @Jason Allen:
Originally posted by @James Wise:
Originally posted by @Jason Allen:

I've been reading through the forums here and I've read a lot of posts about how the tenants should have the money saved up to pay rent in an emergency, and if not they should use a credit card or the money in their retirement account to pay rent.

Yes, they signed a contract to pay a certain dollar amount for a certain period of time but no one saw this disaster coming.

Instead of forcing them into debt or draining their retirement accounts why don't you just let them leave. Let them break the lease and go live with family or friends. Or you can give them a lower dollar amount to pay for the next 90 days.

The truth is that you should have adequate reserves for situations like this as a "professional investor". Try to have some compassion for the average person who makes very little money compared to you and probably lives paycheck to paycheck.

 Do you think it's practical to ask Grocery stores to give discounts on food whenever someone is having a tough time? Should Walmart do the same when they're selling t-shirts? Where do you draw the line?

 If it was the deciding factor in whether or not they stayed in business I'm sure they'd consider it.

I'm not saying let them live there for free. I'm saying to 1. agree on a lower payment and or 2. let them break the lease (keep the deposit if you'd like) BUT don't tell them to 1. leverage high interest credit cards, 2. use their retirement fund, 3. use their kids college fund, 4. etc...

 What does staying in business have to do with your thread? You haven't advocated for anything that would assist a struggling business keep from going under. Nor am I confident you'd even be qualified to do so.

james you being on the firing line with hundreds if not a thousand plus homes to manage I have to think you have had strategy communication with your owners and your tenants.. I just have one rental that is run by a PM and i have been getting updates from them on how they are planning to handle our tenant/property.. these are high end white collar professionals that i believe are still working.

I think the issue is not really a moral issue.. but it certainly is a reality issue.. Now 30 days ago I was pretty certain that without govmit help we were going to have an apocalypse in work force housing owners.. And made a post 30 days ago wanting to know how landlords would handle this as a business owner.. Most responded if they dont pay its not my problem and we evict etc.

As one who had to work out about 200 plus bad loans in the GFC that i held the paper on.. that taught me that workouts are best if you can do it.  No one should not pay their rent if they have the means.

And with all the fear on BP the last two weeks it appears through the stim package unemployment etc Big brother is going to come to the rescue and there should not be massive no pays.. at least I am thinking that.. 

The risk I see though for landlords is again kind of like the GFC were you had strategic defaults.. people made money they Could pay their mortgage but they chose to let their credit get trashed and squatted for years in many cases or walked.  I know at least how our C/D class renters operate and think ( having had 300 of those) and they get checks and I fear the last thing they are going to do is pay rent if they think there is a moratorium on paying etc.. that is where I see risk right now.

But working with tenants through this is just a REALITY and my thought is and us lenders learned the hard way that taking a tough stand with someone who cant pay you anyway is just going to lead to more trouble.

the idea that most renters have a 401k they can draw from or a big savings etc again in my experience at least in work force housing this thing dont really exist for many if not most.

Lastly one of my bizz partners owns a 150 unit B class in the northwest his manager sent an email and said be prepared for 40% no pays for one to three months.. now with all this bail out I dont think it will be that bad..  And for him who basically owns it free and clear its just lost revenue not a huge nut to crack..  But if you have 40% non pay with the crop of newbie syndicators and highly leveraged deals there could be some failures in those assets if this persisted for any length of time.

So bottom line now with bail out and with landlords being polite yet firm this should not be the worse case scenario many are worried about.

It has been a wake up call to highly  leveraged landlords though that 2 to 3 months reserves maybe inadequate for safety.

 

The reality is that the Government has taken a lot of the decisions out of the hands of the homeowners. We've got strategy and backup strategy in mind yes, but it's a fluid situation with a lot of unknowns right now. What exact course of action landlords and property managers should take to attempt to make the most out of a bad situation won't be totally clear until the shoe drops.

This is truly an unprecedented situation, so those that think they've got themselves totally prepared for it are kidding themselves. We just won't know how everyone's portfolio is going to react to this until they've been given the chance to do so. 

Originally posted by @Patrick M. :

@James Wise, the original poster does not own properties. He has an interest in piling on landlords because he (proports) to have numerous outstanding leases on a number of rentals that he sublets on Airbnb. When things were going good, he told us all we were fools... now that things have gone south he wants to be able to simply "walk away" from the leases... He has started this thread purely out of self-interest. He has absolutely no interest in business models or anyone else's side of the story.

 Ahhhh no, you're not telling me he's one of those rent out a landlord's house then Airbnb it dudes are you? lol, good God. The Airbnb sublet business model makes wholesaling look intelligent.

I would think the mere fact that people are not stepping in line and defending the OP’s idea of free rent or free move out without consequences would be a wake up call to him that perhaps his ideas aren’t good. But, nope. Even when I quoted him he insists I haven’t read his posts.

A great majority of us will work with tenants that are affected by this. But also, a huge majority of us are not going to sacrifice our holdings for free rent offers and/or free move outs. Of course, a vast majority of tenants aren’t going to simply move out just because you make the suggestion. That’s a pipe dream. Most don’t have an option to move somewhere and live for free.

It’s baffling that he thinks the only two options are giving tenants something for nothing or you’re immoral. Of course, he also thinks a tenant should be able to hoard retirement funds and college savings instead of paying rent, and also thinks a tenant is the landlords responsibility.

Originally posted by @Anthony Wick :

I would think the mere fact that people are not stepping in line and defending the OP’s idea of free rent or free move out without consequences would be a wake up call to him that perhaps his ideas aren’t good. But, nope. Even when I quoted him he insists I haven’t read his posts.

A great majority of us will work with tenants that are affected by this. But also, a huge majority of us are not going to sacrifice our holdings for free rent offers and/or free move outs. Of course, a vast majority of tenants aren’t going to simply move out just because you make the suggestion. That’s a pipe dream. Most don’t have an option to move somewhere and live for free.

It’s baffling that he thinks the only two options are giving tenants something for nothing or you’re immoral. Of course, he also thinks a tenant should be able to hoard retirement funds and college savings instead of paying rent, and also thinks a tenant is the landlords responsibility.

 Nailed it.

Originally posted by @Jason Allen :
Originally posted by @Patrick M.:

@James Wise , the original poster does not own properties. He has an interest in piling on landlords because he (proports) to have numerous outstanding leases on a number of rentals that he sublets on Airbnb. When things were going good, he told us all we were fools... now that things have gone south he wants to be able to simply "walk away" from the leases... He has started this thread purely out of self-interest. He has absolutely no interest in business models or anyone else's side of the story.

 Ha... not true I own over 500 MF units, and I'm not walking away from anything. 

I have a hard time believing that anyone owning 500 units would be spending their time on cockamamie STR arbitrage schemes. Probably making use of:

The BP two step shortcut to owning 500 units

1: Invest $5,000 in a syndication that buys a 500 unit development

2: Claim to own 500 units

I've seen it far too many times.

 

@Jason Allen - I'm not sure the exact % of landlords who are accidental and own 1 or 2 rentals, but I think it is something staggering, like 50% of all rental properties. Many of these folks are the ones who may be in for a rough ride. They may also have lost their jobs, have mortgages to pay etc. etc. Your logic from another perspective sounds like this: "Banks shouldn't force us to make payments on vehicles, credit cards, mortgages, student loans & SBA loans, because unlike most people, they have unlimited cash due to quantitative easing..." It doesn't work like that. When we enter into contracts - be they leases, mortgages, loan agreements, revolving lines of credit - whatever - we make the commitment to pay our debts, regardless of the situation. I plan to work with my tenants and would like them to feel comfortable staying in their homes, but they need to do everything within their power to make good on the agreements they have with me. I will do everything in my power to ensure they have a nice home to live in, free of crime, with no roaches or mice and if issues arise, I will promptly fix them (The right to quiet enjoyment) - That means sacrifices for all of us.

@Jason Allen I think most landlords know cost of turnover is far more expensive then reduced rent. I always try to find creative solutions for my tenants in need where they can pay weekly or biweekly, I also deferred rent up to two months and allowed them to get on payment plant and that was even before COVID-19. Granted, these exceptions are truly by expectation based on their past payment history, how they care for the unit, their communication with my team and mainly their attitude towards us. However, will see how this situation is impacting our most stable tenants.

I haven't had anyone not pay rent yet from this but rent isn't due for a few more days. I have one tenant that only paid 50% of their rent for March and they're going to be on the way out as soon as the eviction ban is up. Their ability to not pay is not related to the virus. 

@Jason Allen   -  I'm all for the compassion thing.  I'm not going to charge late fees, nor am I going impose any additional undue hardship on my tenants.  I would consider allowing them to break lease if they had an extremely terrible home situation where family were dying and needed their care (which I've already done).

However, we can not abandon proper business protocol in the face of hardship.  People make rash decisions when gripped with fear, and allowing them to just bail out on their obligations isn't the answer here.  I've spent the majority of my life making daily micro sacrifices so that I have reserves and I'm at least sorta ok if something bad happens. It shouldn't also be my responsibility to enable people who live carefree, YOLO lifestyles, by taking the hit when things go tits up. 


Regardless,  the government is doing a damn good job of stepping up to provide everyone with more than enough subsidy (both individuals and businesses) to get through this situation.  ($600 +  unemployment for months?  Who the hell is going to go back to work?)

  We need to keep calm, have patience and weather the storm.  The worst thing we can do is allow our impulses rule us and abandon all systems and protocol

Originally posted by @Jason Allen :
Originally posted by @Theresa Harris:

Landlords also have bills and some of them may have lost their jobs.  Just because they own a home (many have mortgages) doesn't mean they are rolling in money.  Tenants need to pay what they can (ie they can't pay nothing) and work out a payment plan for any shortages with the landlord.

 I think that's fair. Try to agree on a number they can pay which is better than nothing. And if they can't pay anything then letting them go is better than driving them into debt.

Would you agree?

Many "investors" are over leveraged which we're about to find out. Over leveraged in more ways than money, they're over leveraged in competence. 

Most of my tenants are in debt, major debt.  It has nothing to do with me.  IF I require them to pay their rent I am not 'driving' them into debt.  Their life styles is what drives them into debt.   And they were in debt long before my path crossed their path.

When they ask to skip paying the rent, after I review their change in income, I then would review their bills and expenses with them.  

Do they have Dish, Spectrum, the Sports channel, other premium channels?   What is more important watching the game, or having a roof over their head?  

Do they have the latest phone?  Unlimited data plan?   A pay as you go flip phone or free 'Obama' phone will let you get calls and make calls, no 'need' for the smart phone.  What is more important the phone or a roof over their head.  

What about vehicles, that year old Silvarado can easily be replaced with a 15 year old Honda Civic, and use less gas too with lower insurance. 

I would not be willing to cut the rent if they have not cut their lifestyle.

If they 'lost' their job and did not quit, they should be fine in paying rent with unemployment benefits at the enhanced level, free medical care, and food stamps/EBT benefits.

Originally posted by @Jeff Cagle :
Originally posted by @Jason Allen:
Originally posted by @Patrick M.:

@James Wise , the original poster does not own properties. He has an interest in piling on landlords because he (proports) to have numerous outstanding leases on a number of rentals that he sublets on Airbnb. When things were going good, he told us all we were fools... now that things have gone south he wants to be able to simply "walk away" from the leases... He has started this thread purely out of self-interest. He has absolutely no interest in business models or anyone else's side of the story.

 Ha... not true I own over 500 MF units, and I'm not walking away from anything. 

I have a hard time believing that anyone owning 500 units would be spending their time on cockamamie STR arbitrage schemes. Probably making use of:

The BP two step shortcut to owning 500 units

1: Invest $5,000 in a syndication that buys a 500 unit development

2: Claim to own 500 units

I've seen it far too many times.

Did you see his website, tho? Dude's legit..

Originally posted by @Jason Allen :
Originally posted by @Marian Smith:

Eviction moratorium is akin to eminent domain. But it is returning the property...just without the government paying rent. All small businesses are being hurt. It just seems different for landlords, some say like stealing, because a good or service will be consumed without payment in advance and no guarantee of payment in arrears. Knowingly. But rent is not forgiven; just no evictions, kicking people out of their homes during a pandemic.

Other small businesses are totally disrupted, and many fear they will struggle to get their client base back as well as their staff. If you don’t think they are worried, read up. They are afraid to borrow disaster funds they may never be able to pay back if their businesses don’t rebound.

This black swan event hit everyone. Landlords’ pain is different from restaurants’ and retail services’. And grocers are doing great business. It’s how the cookie crumbles...and if running a grocery business was as easy and profitable as rental property we’d all be doing that instead.

 All I know is that I've seen what a resentful tenant can do to a property owner. If you drive these people to pay month they don't have they "will" take it out on the landlords.

In a way I'm trying to encourage landlords to have more compassion but to also understand the adverse effects of being a ruthless business owner. 

 How is expecting someone to honor a signed contract being "ruthless"?

Originally posted by @James Wise :
Originally posted by @Patrick M.:

@James Wise, the original poster does not own properties. He has an interest in piling on landlords because he (proports) to have numerous outstanding leases on a number of rentals that he sublets on Airbnb. When things were going good, he told us all we were fools... now that things have gone south he wants to be able to simply "walk away" from the leases... He has started this thread purely out of self-interest. He has absolutely no interest in business models or anyone else's side of the story.

 Ahhhh no, you're not telling me he's one of those rent out a landlord's house then Airbnb it dudes are you? lol, good God. The Airbnb sublet business model makes wholesaling look intelligent.

 LOL.  You gotta be kidding me.  I went back and read that he says he owns 500 units, but in another post he says he's doing the AirBnB arbitrage..and combined together he says he owns "500 units"?  BS!  He doesn't own ANYTHING.  He has little or no financial responsibility, and he has the nerve to call out all those that do for not giving away the farm?

To be fair, maybe he should put an add out saying all of his 500 units are available for free, as a place for all of those tenants leaving their rental homes.

Originally posted by @Jerry Rien:

@ Jason Allen, since your the professional at landlording, why not give us your phone number and we can have the tenants who are unable to pay, rent from you, since you have such great systems and deep reserves. 

 Quickest way to turn a bleeding heart into a capitalist is to ask them to open their wallet instead of yours.

Originally posted by @James Wise :
Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
Originally posted by @James Wise:
Originally posted by @Jason Allen:
Originally posted by @James Wise:
Originally posted by @Jason Allen:

I've been reading through the forums here and I've read a lot of posts about how the tenants should have the money saved up to pay rent in an emergency, and if not they should use a credit card or the money in their retirement account to pay rent.

Yes, they signed a contract to pay a certain dollar amount for a certain period of time but no one saw this disaster coming.

Instead of forcing them into debt or draining their retirement accounts why don't you just let them leave. Let them break the lease and go live with family or friends. Or you can give them a lower dollar amount to pay for the next 90 days.

The truth is that you should have adequate reserves for situations like this as a "professional investor". Try to have some compassion for the average person who makes very little money compared to you and probably lives paycheck to paycheck.

 Do you think it's practical to ask Grocery stores to give discounts on food whenever someone is having a tough time? Should Walmart do the same when they're selling t-shirts? Where do you draw the line?

 If it was the deciding factor in whether or not they stayed in business I'm sure they'd consider it.

I'm not saying let them live there for free. I'm saying to 1. agree on a lower payment and or 2. let them break the lease (keep the deposit if you'd like) BUT don't tell them to 1. leverage high interest credit cards, 2. use their retirement fund, 3. use their kids college fund, 4. etc...

 What does staying in business have to do with your thread? You haven't advocated for anything that would assist a struggling business keep from going under. Nor am I confident you'd even be qualified to do so.

james you being on the firing line with hundreds if not a thousand plus homes to manage I have to think you have had strategy communication with your owners and your tenants.. I just have one rental that is run by a PM and i have been getting updates from them on how they are planning to handle our tenant/property.. these are high end white collar professionals that i believe are still working.

I think the issue is not really a moral issue.. but it certainly is a reality issue.. Now 30 days ago I was pretty certain that without govmit help we were going to have an apocalypse in work force housing owners.. And made a post 30 days ago wanting to know how landlords would handle this as a business owner.. Most responded if they dont pay its not my problem and we evict etc.

As one who had to work out about 200 plus bad loans in the GFC that i held the paper on.. that taught me that workouts are best if you can do it.  No one should not pay their rent if they have the means.

And with all the fear on BP the last two weeks it appears through the stim package unemployment etc Big brother is going to come to the rescue and there should not be massive no pays.. at least I am thinking that.. 

The risk I see though for landlords is again kind of like the GFC were you had strategic defaults.. people made money they Could pay their mortgage but they chose to let their credit get trashed and squatted for years in many cases or walked.  I know at least how our C/D class renters operate and think ( having had 300 of those) and they get checks and I fear the last thing they are going to do is pay rent if they think there is a moratorium on paying etc.. that is where I see risk right now.

But working with tenants through this is just a REALITY and my thought is and us lenders learned the hard way that taking a tough stand with someone who cant pay you anyway is just going to lead to more trouble.

the idea that most renters have a 401k they can draw from or a big savings etc again in my experience at least in work force housing this thing dont really exist for many if not most.

Lastly one of my bizz partners owns a 150 unit B class in the northwest his manager sent an email and said be prepared for 40% no pays for one to three months.. now with all this bail out I dont think it will be that bad..  And for him who basically owns it free and clear its just lost revenue not a huge nut to crack..  But if you have 40% non pay with the crop of newbie syndicators and highly leveraged deals there could be some failures in those assets if this persisted for any length of time.

So bottom line now with bail out and with landlords being polite yet firm this should not be the worse case scenario many are worried about.

It has been a wake up call to highly  leveraged landlords though that 2 to 3 months reserves maybe inadequate for safety.

 

The reality is that the Government has taken a lot of the decisions out of the hands of the homeowners. We've got strategy and backup strategy in mind yes, but it's a fluid situation with a lot of unknowns right now. What exact course of action landlords and property managers should take to attempt to make the most out of a bad situation won't be totally clear until the shoe drops.

This is truly an unprecedented situation, so those that think they've got themselves totally prepared for it are kidding themselves. We just won't know how everyone's portfolio is going to react to this until they've been given the chance to do so. 

 Dunno, I'm a bit worried. How's Portugal looking for buy and hold? I may have to relocate soon :)

Took the time to work with tenants. Got agreements in place to ensure they understand they will be paying..... just restructured. The gratitude and relief they showed is beyond comprehension. As a person, I felt better too.

Chances are they will be long term tenants which helps me in the LONG run. Plus I know I will have no issues asking them for referrals in the future.

People being ridiculous with tenants are probably over leveraged, do not have reserves, and do not have the income to support what they are doing. They took the high risk approach and lost.... take the punch to the nose, learn, and move on.

We texted, emailed, called, and hand delivered letters to all our 100+ tenants. This was received very positively and mot seem to have the ability to pay. There have been a few that have identified hardship, we will continue to work with them to ensure the best case scenario for everyone

Originally posted by @Andrey Y. :
Originally posted by @James Wise:
Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
Originally posted by @James Wise:
Originally posted by @Jason Allen:
Originally posted by @James Wise:
Originally posted by @Jason Allen:

I've been reading through the forums here and I've read a lot of posts about how the tenants should have the money saved up to pay rent in an emergency, and if not they should use a credit card or the money in their retirement account to pay rent.

Yes, they signed a contract to pay a certain dollar amount for a certain period of time but no one saw this disaster coming.

Instead of forcing them into debt or draining their retirement accounts why don't you just let them leave. Let them break the lease and go live with family or friends. Or you can give them a lower dollar amount to pay for the next 90 days.

The truth is that you should have adequate reserves for situations like this as a "professional investor". Try to have some compassion for the average person who makes very little money compared to you and probably lives paycheck to paycheck.

 Do you think it's practical to ask Grocery stores to give discounts on food whenever someone is having a tough time? Should Walmart do the same when they're selling t-shirts? Where do you draw the line?

 If it was the deciding factor in whether or not they stayed in business I'm sure they'd consider it.

I'm not saying let them live there for free. I'm saying to 1. agree on a lower payment and or 2. let them break the lease (keep the deposit if you'd like) BUT don't tell them to 1. leverage high interest credit cards, 2. use their retirement fund, 3. use their kids college fund, 4. etc...

 What does staying in business have to do with your thread? You haven't advocated for anything that would assist a struggling business keep from going under. Nor am I confident you'd even be qualified to do so.

james you being on the firing line with hundreds if not a thousand plus homes to manage I have to think you have had strategy communication with your owners and your tenants.. I just have one rental that is run by a PM and i have been getting updates from them on how they are planning to handle our tenant/property.. these are high end white collar professionals that i believe are still working.

I think the issue is not really a moral issue.. but it certainly is a reality issue.. Now 30 days ago I was pretty certain that without govmit help we were going to have an apocalypse in work force housing owners.. And made a post 30 days ago wanting to know how landlords would handle this as a business owner.. Most responded if they dont pay its not my problem and we evict etc.

As one who had to work out about 200 plus bad loans in the GFC that i held the paper on.. that taught me that workouts are best if you can do it.  No one should not pay their rent if they have the means.

And with all the fear on BP the last two weeks it appears through the stim package unemployment etc Big brother is going to come to the rescue and there should not be massive no pays.. at least I am thinking that.. 

The risk I see though for landlords is again kind of like the GFC were you had strategic defaults.. people made money they Could pay their mortgage but they chose to let their credit get trashed and squatted for years in many cases or walked.  I know at least how our C/D class renters operate and think ( having had 300 of those) and they get checks and I fear the last thing they are going to do is pay rent if they think there is a moratorium on paying etc.. that is where I see risk right now.

But working with tenants through this is just a REALITY and my thought is and us lenders learned the hard way that taking a tough stand with someone who cant pay you anyway is just going to lead to more trouble.

the idea that most renters have a 401k they can draw from or a big savings etc again in my experience at least in work force housing this thing dont really exist for many if not most.

Lastly one of my bizz partners owns a 150 unit B class in the northwest his manager sent an email and said be prepared for 40% no pays for one to three months.. now with all this bail out I dont think it will be that bad..  And for him who basically owns it free and clear its just lost revenue not a huge nut to crack..  But if you have 40% non pay with the crop of newbie syndicators and highly leveraged deals there could be some failures in those assets if this persisted for any length of time.

So bottom line now with bail out and with landlords being polite yet firm this should not be the worse case scenario many are worried about.

It has been a wake up call to highly  leveraged landlords though that 2 to 3 months reserves maybe inadequate for safety.

 

The reality is that the Government has taken a lot of the decisions out of the hands of the homeowners. We've got strategy and backup strategy in mind yes, but it's a fluid situation with a lot of unknowns right now. What exact course of action landlords and property managers should take to attempt to make the most out of a bad situation won't be totally clear until the shoe drops.

This is truly an unprecedented situation, so those that think they've got themselves totally prepared for it are kidding themselves. We just won't know how everyone's portfolio is going to react to this until they've been given the chance to do so. 

 Dunno, I'm a bit worried. How's Portugal looking for buy and hold? I may have to relocate soon :)

Portugal is great man. When I'm awarded that Clayton Morris garnishment I'm going to be swimming in that Portugal Youtube money. Ya'll better be tuning in to watch Ole' Boy Clay make a fool of himself on his channel.....Daddy is ready to get paid from that ad revenue.

Originally posted by @Al Pat :

@Jason Allen I think most landlords know cost of turnover is far more expensive then reduced rent. I always try to find creative solutions for my tenants in need where they can pay weekly or biweekly, I also deferred rent up to two months and allowed them to get on payment plant and that was even before COVID-19. Granted, these exceptions are truly by expectation based on their past payment history, how they care for the unit, their communication with my team and mainly their attitude towards us. However, will see how this situation is impacting our most stable tenants.

I used to think that most landlords knew that turnover costs were far more expensive than reduced rent. The last three weeks cured me of that clearly wrong idea. 

Way more people than I though would rather be right than rich based off what I have read on BP. 

Then again, that could be a bunch of virtue signal and when the rubber meets the road and they are faced with a tenant who can't pay for a month or two they will make the logical choice.