Neighbor taking liberties with my property

Rental Property Investor · Charleston, SC · Member since 2018 · 29 posts · 13 votes

This actually happened to my primary residence...

My neighbor recently enclosed his back yard with a standard 6' wooden fence. He added gates to each side of the house (nothing atypical here). Then he added a gate that can only be opened from his side that leads into my back yard. It appears from the traffic that this so his kids can cut through to the cove behind us.

Just for reference, he has broken several HOA covenants, but the HOA has proven to be toothless. But that's another story.

Has anyone had similar experiences or know of a remedy? I am planning to seal his gate off on my side with a second fence if there are no answers.

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David Clay

Real Estate Investor · Chattahoochee, FL · Member since 2014 · 133 posts · 107 votes

Just out of curiosity, have you considered asking your neighbor to have his kids take a different route? Maybe that would be helpful and explain why you're asking (trying to get the grass to grow, I like to know who's on my property and don't want to mistake them for strangers, etc.). Honestly, unless there is significant damage maybe you can just let it go. They're kids and kids run around everywhere and on everybody's property. I know, I know you have rights and I can respect that. I just wonder if it is that big of a deal in the big scheme of things for your life. If not, maybe just let it go. The kids probably think you're really cool for not being bothered when they go through your yard. Should shrug. Is it really worth a fight with your neighbor? Did it bother you when there was no fence? Just something to consider. Good luck.

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Greg M.
Rental Property Investor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 5k+ votes
6y
If this is against the HOA covenants, send a complaint notice to the HOA. If/when they do nothing, have an attorney send a letter to the HOA notifying them that you will be filing suit against the HOA and Board members individually as their willful actions have caused you harm and try to get the HOA to enforce the covenants as your property value has been hurt. Many insurance companies require to be notified upon potential liabilities. The insurance carrier would likely tell the HOA to enforce the covenants or be dropped by them.

Check your local laws. Many places allow you to secure things to your side of the fence even if the fence is owned by someone else. If legal in your area, just secure a piece of wood across the gate opening.

I'm sure lots of thorny bushes grow in your area. Plant a few in front of the opening. Perhaps poison ivy? Of course, inform your neighbor so they aren't injured and can't sue because they didn't know.

Contact the local police and see what is required for the children to be arrested for trespass. Usually you need to give notice and then if they do it again they can be arrested. Perhaps just a formal notice of trespass to the neighbor would be enough for him to not allow his kids to do this.
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David Clay
Real Estate Investor · Chattahoochee, FL · Member since 2014 · 133 posts · 107 votes
6y
Just out of curiosity, have you considered asking your neighbor to have his kids take a different route? Maybe that would be helpful and explain why you're asking (trying to get the grass to grow, I like to know who's on my property and don't want to mistake them for strangers, etc.). Honestly, unless there is significant damage maybe you can just let it go. They're kids and kids run around everywhere and on everybody's property. I know, I know you have rights and I can respect that. I just wonder if it is that big of a deal in the big scheme of things for your life. If not, maybe just let it go. The kids probably think you're really cool for not being bothered when they go through your yard. Should shrug. Is it really worth a fight with your neighbor? Did it bother you when there was no fence? Just something to consider. Good luck.
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JD MartinBusiness Member
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Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
6y
^^^ I was going to ask you the same thing. What was the situation before there was a fence? Were the kids cutting through the yard at that time, or did they only start once there was a fence?
In any case, simple answer: fence your side of the property if you don't want them coming through. There's usually nothing that says everyone has to share a fence. I have two rental properties I can think of off the top of my head that have back to back fences, one on my side, one on the neighbor's side. In both cases, I added mine later for logistical reasons - one house a neighbor on another street was using it as a cut-through and pushing a shopping cart full of cans and bottles all hours of the day. In the other the neighbor had a chain-link but was a total slob and I didn't want anyone to see his mess, so up went a privacy fence.
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Marlen Weber
Specialist · Plano, TX · Member since 2020 · 2k+ posts · 861 votes
6y
@Patrick Owens What a sticky situation to be in. It is never fun to deal with an uncomfortable situation, specially involving a neighbor. There's great advice on this thread. Please keep us posted on this situation.
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Patrick Owens
OP
Rental Property Investor · Charleston, SC · Member since 2018 · 29 posts · 13 votes
6y
@David Clay
Excellent advice from all. Posting questions on BP is always worth it.
I really don’t care about the kids cutting through as my yard is ok, but no showpiece. It’s actually going to be a rental one day.
What I fear is the possible litigation if a child is injured playing in the yard.
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Account Closed
Investor · Singapore · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 3k+ votes
6y
Originally posted by @Greg M.:

Contact the local police and see what is required for the children to be arrested for trespass. Usually you need to give notice and then if they do it again they can be arrested.
Really? Really? You want kids arrested for running through a backyard to get to a cove? I guess you will do well in the Police State that much of America is becoming.

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Account Closed
San Jose, CA · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes
6y
You're right to be concerned. Not only could the kids get hurt and you could be sued, but, this also creates an easement that could attach to the property. You could approach him nicely and look all apologetic and say, you're so sorry, but your lawyer, who is a personal friend, was over the other day having a beer with you and he told you that because of liability reasons, you're going to have to close off their access to your yard, that you also called your insurance agent and they told you you have to close it off. So sorry. Just put a board across it somehow that isn't ugly, and screw it down, or however you need to do it. That was really obnoxious of him to do and he knows it. But, neighbors are tricky things. I'd just keep nodding your head and say I know, it's too bad about insurance and all of this legal stuff about liability, I know, I know, so sorry...
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Greg M.
Rental Property Investor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 5k+ votes
6y
Originally posted by @Account Closed:
Originally posted by @Greg M.:

Contact the local police and see what is required for the children to be arrested for trespass. Usually you need to give notice and then if they do it again they can be arrested.
Really? Really? You want kids arrested for running through a backyard to get to a cove? I guess you will do well in the Police State that much of America is becoming.

Why would you cut out the last line I wrote: Perhaps just a formal notice of trespass to the neighbor would be enough for him to not allow his kids to do this. Are you the type of person who looks for things to be offended about and twists things into something in order to be offended?
Usually trespass requires formal notice not to be there. I suggested he find out what the police require, which will likely be formal notice to the neighbor not to trespass. Then tell the neighbor not to trespass. Therefore, if ignored, the police can be called with standing.
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Marian Smith
Real Estate Investor · Williamson County, TX · Member since 2011 · 1k+ posts · 961 votes
6y
@Patrick Owens If you post a no trespassing sign in your yard would that take you off the hook? Insurance wise. Is there any reason to expect a kid to get hurt in your yard? It would annoy me but I wouldn’t do anything. Normal guy and likely no problem; crazy guy and you really don’t want to stir up a problem. Imo.
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Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
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Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
6y
This is very simple. First, communicate with our neighbor and let them know, kindly but firmly, that you do not want anyone trespassing on your property.
If they continue to do it, install a post two inches from the gate to block it from swinging open. Problem solved.
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Kirk R.
Peoria, IL · Member since 2013 · 967 posts · 383 votes
6y
Originally posted by @Patrick Owens:
This actually happened to my primary residence...
My neighbor recently enclosed his back yard with a standard 6' wooden fence. He added gates to each side of the house (nothing atypical here). Then he added a gate that can only be opened from his side that leads into my back yard. It appears from the traffic that this so his kids can cut through to the cove behind us.
Just for reference, he has broken several HOA covenants, but the HOA has proven to be toothless. But that's another story.
Has anyone had similar experiences or know of a remedy? I am planning to seal his gate off on my side with a second fence if there are no answers.

I would look at it & probably think back to the days as a kid I would go trespassing through the neighbors.
how far of a walk is it around your house? dang kids so lazy these days probably call an uber ha!
I wouldn't elevate it & probably just not interact with that neighbor. ignore the kids cutting through.
I had two dogs. One died that day. New neighbor walks up 2nd sentence out of his mouth is that my dogs bark too much. that was About 3 years ago. since 1st interaction, only other interaction I've had is one of his downspouts blew into my yard. I returned it to him & let him know. Just not worth hassle of feuding & fussing with neighbors imo. some really funny YouTube videos of neighbors building like 30 ft tall fences.
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James Wise
Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes
6y
Originally posted by @Patrick Owens:
This actually happened to my primary residence...
My neighbor recently enclosed his back yard with a standard 6' wooden fence. He added gates to each side of the house (nothing atypical here). Then he added a gate that can only be opened from his side that leads into my back yard. It appears from the traffic that this so his kids can cut through to the cove behind us.
Just for reference, he has broken several HOA covenants, but the HOA has proven to be toothless. But that's another story.
Has anyone had similar experiences or know of a remedy? I am planning to seal his gate off on my side with a second fence if there are no answers.

Did he put the fence right on the property line?
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Patrick Owens
OP
Rental Property Investor · Charleston, SC · Member since 2018 · 29 posts · 13 votes
6y
@James Wise
It appears to be 4” inside his property line
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Brian Ploszay
Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
6y
I first would start soft, with having a conversation with him. 50% chance he will allow for a resolution. Then take it to the next step if it really is an issue for you. I find that a stern demand letter from an attorney works well. The letter shows the steps that you are going to immediately take if not resolved.

If none of this works, then he is a hard headed guy, who doesn't care about the consequences. Expect more grief from him. And mental energy from you to correct it.
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Nicole Heasley Beitenman
Investor · Youngstown, OH · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
6y
Don't put up an entire fence. Put up just enough fencing so his gate can't open. Like one section of fencing that's the exact width of his gate.
Just kidding. Talk to the neighbor first. Unless he's a jerk about it, in which case I stand by my initial suggestion.
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Wesley W.
Rental Property Investor · The Vampire State · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
6y
Originally posted by @Patrick Owens:
@David Clay
Excellent advice from all. Posting questions on BP is always worth it.
I really don’t care about the kids cutting through as my yard is ok, but no showpiece. It’s actually going to be a rental one day.
What I fear is the possible litigation if a child is injured playing in the yard.

That's the first thing I thought of when I read your initial post. Not sure why people posting here think it's about being a neighborhood curmudgeon. Unfortunately, this is 2020 and you need to take these things into account.
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Michael Jones
Investor · Louisville, KY · Member since 2017 · 199 posts · 253 votes
6y
Sounds like the perfect spot for a few ricks of firewood to be stored to dry out for the winter.
3 Reply
Don KonipolBusiness Member
Investor · The Woodlands TX / Avon, CT · Member since 2009 · 6k+ posts · 10k+ votes
6y
@Patrick Owens, I would worry about the liability. I would contact the neighbor and explain the liability problem. If he doesn't care, then just fence a area on your side that overlaps the gate by 1 foot on each side. This will negate the exit. Often, unsophisticated homeowners do not really realize the implications of what they're doing.
I had a situation years ago with a swimming pool in my yard. The neighbor came over asking if his kids could use the pool. While I was tempted to say no, because I was truly concerned with potential liability, I decided that I didn't like the world we lived in where insurance liability forced me to say no to kids. So I (1) had the parents sign a waiver of responsibility (2) upped my liability coverage from $1 million to $3 million and have them sign an understanding that their kids may only use my pool when my wife or I were at home, and informed. All worked well. Three weeks later my wife and I went on vacation for 10 days. We informed the neighbors that their kids wouldn't be allowed to use the pool during our absence. We locked the gate so they couldn't enter the backyard. When we got back from vacation we watched the security camera footage and discovered that the kids climbed the fence WITH THEIR PARENTS HELP everyday and used the pool! Some people just have no respect for others property rights. And get this, when I confronted the neighbors about it, the husband bows his head and sleeks away; the wife tells me that since there was a big rain that washed debris from my yard to hers, and I was not there to clean it up, she didn't feel obligated to honor our agreement! You can't make this up!
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James Wise
Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes
6y
Originally posted by @Patrick Owens:
@James Wise
It appears to be 4” inside his property line

Seems like you're only real sensible recourse to keep the kids out of your yard (or at least what is perceived as your yard) would be your own fence. I'd imagine he put it 4 ft in because he wants the kids to be able to have a path to that back gate. So the argument can be made by him that they aren't actually going in your yard at all. 4 ft on the outside of his fence is more than enough room for a walkway.
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Wesley W.
Rental Property Investor · The Vampire State · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
6y
Originally posted by @James Wise:
Originally posted by @Patrick Owens:
@James Wise
It appears to be 4” inside his property line

Seems like you're only real sensible recourse to keep the kids out of your yard (or at least what is perceived as your yard) would be your own fence. I'd imagine he put it 4 ft in because he wants the kids to be able to have a path to that back gate. So the argument can be made by him that they aren't actually going in your yard at all. 4 ft on the outside of his fence is more than enough room for a walkway.

4" is how one typically indicates 4 inches.
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James Wise
Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes
6y
Originally posted by @Wesley W.:
Originally posted by @James Wise:
Originally posted by @Patrick Owens:
@James Wise
It appears to be 4” inside his property line

Seems like you're only real sensible recourse to keep the kids out of your yard (or at least what is perceived as your yard) would be your own fence. I'd imagine he put it 4 ft in because he wants the kids to be able to have a path to that back gate. So the argument can be made by him that they aren't actually going in your yard at all. 4 ft on the outside of his fence is more than enough room for a walkway.

4" is how one typically indicates 4 inches.

If we're talking inches then obviously the move is to buy a wood chipper.
2 Reply
Scott Mac
Austin, TX · Member since 2019 · 5k+ posts · 5k+ votes
6y
Originally posted by @James Wise:
Originally posted by @Patrick Owens:
@James Wise
It appears to be 4” inside his property line

Seems like you're only real sensible recourse to keep the kids out of your yard (or at least what is perceived as your yard) would be your own fence. I'd imagine he put it 4 ft in because he wants the kids to be able to have a path to that back gate. So the argument can be made by him that they aren't actually going in your yard at all. 4 ft on the outside of his fence is more than enough room for a walkway.

Contractor Lingo: x" = inches and x' = feet.
Very common to miss it though (Spinal Tap): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STHKFlO-zBw
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Scott Mac
Austin, TX · Member since 2019 · 5k+ posts · 5k+ votes
6y
Kids can still fit on a four inch walkway, they just have to hold their breath.

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Colleen F.Pro Member
Investor · Narragansett, RI · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
6y
If the gate swings into your yard I think a nice post next to the gate with a no trespass sign would be a good idea. You might talk to him first particularly if they have another way to access this cove even if it means putting that gate on the back of his property and having his kids go through the woods. Also check how water access is handled in your state before you talk to him. There can be requirements to let people through but in many cases there are not.
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Mary M.
Rental Property Investor · Portland OR · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
6y
Just put your own fence up. :)
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