Real Estate Agent · Milwaukee, WI · Member since 2019 · 16 posts · 3 votes
Hi BP Nation,
I am currently house hacking a two-family home in Milwaukee, WI. I've been making updates throughout the property as needed and one of the things I noticed is that all the outlets upstairs are "three prone outlets" (Like the ones you'd see in a modern house), while all the outlets down stairs are two prone outlets. I am wondering if anyone has see this before and knows why that would be.
Also, do anyone know how I would update the downstairs outlets? Is this a project I could handle? I've replaced outlets before but do I need to run wire to do this update?
@Benjamin Beyer - there is a safe (code compliant) and inexpensive way to address this by adding one GFCI outlet to each run of outlets and converting the remaining outlets from two to three prong. Talk with a licensed electrician.
Ask an electrician to have a look as there are a lot of thing to look for.
Are the 2 prongs outlets supplied with ground through metal conduits? If so it may be easy to upgrade if allowed locally by your electrical code.
If there is no ground wire or conduit you will have to rewire.
Is your panel also up to code?
Depending on the number of outlets you need to change, you may also have to upgrade the whole house to new code, including upgrade to gfci to all kitchen and bathrooms.
So again you may do some of the upgrade yourself if you are knowledgeable about electricity work, but I would definitely ask an electrician to assess and supervise the work. Also don’t forget permitting as it is one of the easiest reason for denying fire insurance claim and to engage your liability.
Maybe upstairs was a remodel that needed to be updated to code? Doesn't seem likely since a city inspector would make you update everything to get the permit.
Pull a two prong out and see if you've got a ground coming out to the socket, then it's easy. If not, to be properly wired, you'll need to get a ground (hopefully connected to the upstairs ground) to each socket.
However, since it is suspect, get one of those $9 socket testers from HD and try each socket to make sure they all have proper wiring.
I have a property with 2 prong outlets throughout. It was inspected last year by a city rental property inspector he noticed the outlets and we passed. I tell the tenants to buy a 2 prong to three prong converter-Amazon, Lowes, HD. That allows them to plug in modern electronics.
Codes vary by city and county check yours to see what, if anything needs to be done.
@Benjamin Beyer - there is a safe (code compliant) and inexpensive way to address this by adding one GFCI outlet to each run of outlets and converting the remaining outlets from two to three prong. Talk with a licensed electrician.
If you have youtube you can handle it. Haha Like others said before open it up, see if theres a ground wire. If so turn off the breaker and swap the wires to new 3 prong outlet. Go to home depot buy a 3 prong outlet tester ($7) it will tell you if its either good, not grounded, or reversed.
If its good congrats super easy fix, still buy gfci outlets for wherever theres potential excessive moisture ex. Bathrooms or kitchen counters.
Not grounded, buy a fish tape at home depot. ($15-$30) you are lucky the upstairs is already good. You can attach the fish to the existing wires and pull it down from the basement, attach a ground wire and pull it back up. Wire it and hook it up to a good ground in the basement.
Reversed, just reverse the hot and neutral wires.
I’m not a licensed electrician but have done my fair share of wiring.
@Benjamin Beyer - there is a safe (code compliant) and inexpensive way to address this by adding one GFCI outlet to each run of outlets and converting the remaining outlets from two to three prong. Talk with a licensed electrician.
You still need to get a good ground to the outlets downstairs.
A GFCI will add more protection, but if there isn't a ground, it won't work.
BTW - Daisy-chaining more than one outlet off a GFCI means they'll trip more often.
What in particular is not accurate? If you run a ground from a GFCI, you'll need to run new wires to the socket anyways.
Instead of a common ground, you'll be running all the grounds thru one GFCI which increases the load on the ground line and affects the load-sense of the GFCI I think.
First of all- just because a 3 prong outlet is installed doesn't mean it has 3 Wire. You can install 3 prong into a 2 wire system. It’s just not grounded. You have to pull the outlet out and see if it’s really a grounded outlet. (how many wires are in the box)
For reference 3 wire has hot, neutral and ground (the bare wire). 2 wire has hot and neutral, no ground.
To upgrade 2 prong to 3 prong without rewiring the whole house Code says you can add a gfci protected outlet at the first outlet in the run and add 3 prong Outlets to the rest. (You are also supposed to add a little sticker to each outlet saying Gfci protected and not grounded) In this case if there is a problem that normally goes to the ground wire it would trip the gfci and cut power. you probably need to hire someone if you do not understand what I’m saying.
What in particular is not accurate? If you run a ground from a GFCI, you'll need to run new wires to the socket anyways.
Instead of a common ground, you'll be running all the grounds thru one GFCI which increases the load on the ground line and affects the load-sense of the GFCI I think.
What isn't accurate? Pretty much everything you state.....
What in particular is not accurate? If you run a ground from a GFCI, you'll need to run new wires to the socket anyways.
Instead of a common ground, you'll be running all the grounds thru one GFCI which increases the load on the ground line and affects the load-sense of the GFCI I think.
What isn't accurate? Pretty much everything you state.....
You do not run a ground. You use the existing 2 wire with gfci protection it trips if a short is detected.
I had this issue with a rental during an inspection for section 8. The house was built in the 1950s and almost all of the outlets in the home needed to be updated for it to pass inspection. I called a licensed electrician and for labor and parts it was $250. It took a few hours (with 2 men working). I recommend leaving this type of work to quality, licensed professionals. They can make sure it is fixed correctly and let you know the best way for it to be updated. I have bought houses from people that thought they were handy and with electrical and plumbing, it just isn't worth it. Also, if anything happens you will have documented proof that you did everything you were required to do.
"You do not run a ground. You use the existing 2 wire with gfci protection it trips if a short is detected."
You realize the G in GFCI stands for GROUND. The device senses the diff between GROUND and NEUTRAL currents.
Please don't tell me you could get your suggestion past an inspector.
Sorry Steve but you do not know the code. Yes an inspector would pass this. A simple google search would show you are incorrect. Try reading the national electric code… “One of the methods permitted in 406.4(D)(2) is to replace a non-grounding type receptacle with a GFCI type receptacle.”