Just for your reading pleasure... crazy entitled tenant

Just for your reading pleasure... crazy entitled tenant

Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2015 · 435 posts · 421 votes

Last March, at the beginning of the pandemic, one of our tenants didn't pay, and didn't answer our texts.  Finally, she contacted me.  Her husband had left her.  She had no food.  She had no dog food.  She had no money.

I packed her up two bags of groceries from our stockpile, and bought over-the-phone an enormous bag of dog food for her dogs that the store then loaded into my husband's van.  He delivered it all to her.  She eventually was able to catch up on the rent, and has paid mostly on time since.

Recently, on a Wednesday evening (snowstorm here), she called saying no heat.  Husband drove to her apt in the snow, got the heat up and running.  But Thursday, no heat again.  That afternoon, he brought her two oil-filled electric radiators, got in an HVAC tech.  They spent hours working on the unit, but were left with the risk of replacing a valve in an old gas pipe in the unit (which was old), so decided to do a replacement.  The HVAC tech and husband installed a brand new unit on Saturday.  Meanwhile, she had the two electric oil-filled radiators, and gas hot water, and gas stove.  She complained vociferously throughout.  She wanted the furnace instantly repaired or replaced, and she meant instantly.  She bitched that her electric bill would go up from using the electric radiators.  On Sunday, she called complaining that some of the vents were cold.  Husband ran down there - turned out that she didn't know the difference between a return and a heating vent, but new furnace was functioning perfectly.  On Monday, she complained that the programmable thermostat was broken.  He went down there yet again. Turned out that despite my husband having shown her, she didn't understand how to simply override the programmable thermostat by putting it on HOLD mode, so each time she put the temp up to her preferred temp (78), when the thermostat moved to the next time setting, it would drop back down to 68.  (She pays her own gas and electric).

We're furious.  Immediate response, temporary provision of electric radiators, and a new unit within less than 72 hours of the first problem with the furnace, and it's just not good enough for her.  And this is the woman that I gave my own stockpiled food to, and purchased dog food for, at a time when we didn't know how soon we could safely go into stores again.

She's on a month to month lease.  I swear, the minute the eviction moratorium is over, I plan to raise her rent by 20% (it would still be arguably within market rates in that town), and the second she is late, file eviction on her.

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Investor · Greenville, SC · Member since 2016 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
5y

Invoke the Happy Clause.  "You're obviously not happy here.  With 30 day notice and a clean unit, you are welcome to move out and receive a refund of your deposit."  Something along those lines.

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  • Investor · Greenville, SC · Member since 2016 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    5y

    Invoke the Happy Clause.  "You're obviously not happy here.  With 30 day notice and a clean unit, you are welcome to move out and receive a refund of your deposit."  Something along those lines.

  • Member since 2019 · 5 posts · 3 votes
    5y

    Very frustrating. Sounds like a headache every time the phone rang.

  • Kim Meredith HamptonBusiness Member
    Real Estate Broker · St Petersburg · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    5y

    @Karen F. no good deed goes unpunished!!!

    Not sure I would even renew. Let her go MTM through the rough part of winter, then non renew. Here in Florida we can non renew with no problem, has nothing to do with the eviction moratorium on non payment of rent. 

  • Kenneth GarrettPro Member
    Investor · Florida Panhandle/Illinois · Member since 2016 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    5y

    @Karen F.

    I feel your pain.  It’s the old adage “what have you done for me lately” past experience means nothing to some people.  Here in Illinois we have both CDC and governor order no evictions.  Even if the lease ends or you give 30 day notice on the mtm and the tenant doesn’t leave you are basically screwed until the no eviction ends. Who knows when that will be.

    Good Luck.

  • Rental Property Investor · Member since 2020 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    5y

    This sounds frustrating for sure but things like this happen don’t let it frustrate you.  I’m sure she appreciated what you did for her at the time but that doesn’t negate their frustration on heat in their mind.  Personally I think you went above and beyond doing the best you could.  I do think you are letting your emotions get to you and intertwining 2 events and before you do anything drastic like non renewal or a huge increase give yourself time to cool off.  I understand you are hurt but goodwill only lasts so long with some people.  She bitched her electric would go up but didn’t ask you to pay so no big deal there and utilities can’t be that big of a deal to her if she turns the heat up to 78.  She forgot how to program a thermostat and needed to be shown again, also not the worst as those can be confusing.  Now if you truly are 20% under market that is something to address but don’t base it off this and I’d wait until spring when it is easier to get a new tenant and hopefully we return to normalcy with eviction laws.  Also be sure that whatever you do it is just a business need and can’t be construed as retaliation for a repair request.  

  • Rental Property Investor · Upstate, NY · Member since 2012 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    5y

    We inherited one like that & she rarely paid the $575/month on-time. So we raised her rent $100/month hoping she would vacate, but she then paid on-time?? Being MTM, we gave her a 30 day termination because she just wasn't happy & we didn't have time for it. 

    Threw in a new living room carpet, new tub & surround & that apartment rented immediately for $875/month. If they ain't happy, they're NEVER going to be happy!!!

  • George SkidisPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Belleville, IL · Member since 2017 · 874 posts · 529 votes
    5y

    We started out renting low income and Section 8. Our residents have called to report an assortment of issue One late 20s tenant called reporting a gas leak, After contacting the power company I drove down and discovered the street department was oiling and chatting the road. Another time a 35 year old tenant thought there was an electrical problem when all that happened is she saw the light bulb flare when it burned out. Another complained about the furnace not working when the gas had been turned off for non payment.

    We NEVER put smart thermostats in rental units. all we install are the old "White Rodgers" thermostats with the sliding temperature lever for that very reason. Most of our tenants are reasonably smart and responsible, however, we always dumb things down to the lowest common denominator. Saves on phone calls. 

    We have also installed exterior steel doors on interior bedrooms to save on wear and tear.

    The company motto is "Make it simple and bullet proof".

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Mike Dymski:

    Invoke the Happy Clause.  "You're obviously not happy here.  With 30 day notice and a clean unit, you are welcome to move out and receive a refund of your deposit."  Something along those lines.

    In our line of work we call it the Courtney clause.. we had a buyer Courtney that was a living nightmare.. from then on I have the Courtney clause..  now i know you cant do that as a landlord.. but as a seller we retain the right to cancel the deal return all monies plus 500.00.

    this is why landlords get the big bucks on their rentals to put up with this stuff..  have to have thick skin.. 

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Duluth, GA · Member since 2020 · 1 post · 1 vote
    5y

    Your experience taught me a new word - "vociferously". Thanks.  I learned you can't keep score on favors. It was nice you gave food away and I'm sure you will be blessed for doing so if you gave it altruistically. Other than that why not put the rental under a 3rd party management agreement? Sounds like a lot of work and stress.

  • Colleen F.Pro Member
    Investor · Narragansett, RI · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    5y

    What is surprising to me is when she was out of money in March and couldn't afford food she is now keeping the heat at 78 and she probably still has the dogs, this all in the middle of an economic downturn.  I am assuming she is still paying but if she is a PIA the plan to either terminate or raise rent to compensate for the aggravation factor is a good one. If she can't manage a house on her own probably best if she moves.

  • Mike HurneyPro Member
    Real Estate Investor · Boston, MA · Member since 2009 · 2k+ posts · 542 votes
    5y

    @Karen F.

    I think the Irish say: "No Good Deed Goes Unpunished..."

  • Rental Property Investor · Clarksville, TN · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    5y

    @Karen F.

    I figured out why her husband left.

  • Investor · Greenville, SC · Member since 2016 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
    Originally posted by @Mike Dymski:

    Invoke the Happy Clause.  "You're obviously not happy here.  With 30 day notice and a clean unit, you are welcome to move out and receive a refund of your deposit."  Something along those lines.

    In our line of work we call it the Courtney clause.. we had a buyer Courtney that was a living nightmare.. from then on I have the Courtney clause..  now i know you cant do that as a landlord.. but as a seller we retain the right to cancel the deal return all monies plus 500.00.

    this is why landlords get the big bucks on their rentals to put up with this stuff..  have to have thick skin.. 

    That's great to be able to fire the client.  The Courtney's of the world always get what's coming to them.  May not be right away but it happens in due time.  Heck, it's likely the source of their constant cycle of anger.

  • Sterman, MI · Member since 2017 · 378 posts · 306 votes
    5y

    I tell them at the showing and when we sign the lease. I only do mtm because I can get you out if you cause me problems or are a PIA. They never question it. Some say "I've heard that before from other landlords". 

  • Realtor · Oakland, CA and a Real Estate Investor with Multi-Family Units and a Self Storage Facility · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    5y

    Not to be "cold hearted", but when you ordered dog food for her and brought some food over to her place, that set a precedent for her to really start acting entitled. 

    I'm thinking the entitled tenant is the one actually named "Karen" and not the property owner. :-)  I'm sorry, I couldn't resist......

    In all actuality I'm guessing this property is out of state? You appear to be in San Diego and I used to be stationed at Coronado and 32nd Street so I know it doesn't snow there. 

    We all know this eviction moratorium is not necessarily the best thing thing for landlords that deal with "uniquely challenging tenants".  Keep your head up Karen. 

  • Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
    5y

    @Karen F. Constructive criticism: you are causing your own problems.

    You played social worker/charity organization, so the tenant No longer sees you as a landlord or business. You can clearly afford to buy her groceries and spend all your time running back and forth to deal with her complaints, so why wouldn't she take advantage of that?

    And why are you keeping a bad tenant that is 20% below market? If the rent should be $1,000 but you are only charging $800, that means you are gifting this tenant $200 a month or $2,400 a year. Why? Are you unable to find a charity with real needs? You are treating this woman honestly, fairly, in generously, just so she can turn around and slap you in the face.

    Learn to run the property like a business. You need to get rid of this tenant immediately or she will continue to cause problems and cost you money. I would give her 30 days notice right after she pays January rent. Get rid of her, clean the place up, and rent it at market rate to a tenant that will appreciate a quality home and an honest, fair Landlord.

    If you keep her and she continues to cause problems, you have no right to complain.

    I would also consider adding a clause to your lease that says lieutenant will be charged a trip charge anytime they make an unwarranted maintenance call. Standard rate would be around $50 - $75, depending on the amount of time and gas it requires from you.

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  • Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
    5y

    Sorry for the typos. On my phone and mobile app doesn't allow editing.

    The DIY Landlord Book4.7248 Reviews
  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Nathan Gesner:

    @Karen F. Constructive criticism: you are causing your own problems.

    You played social worker/charity organization, so the tenant No longer sees you as a landlord or business. You can clearly afford to buy her groceries and spend all your time running back and forth to deal with her complaints, so why wouldn't she take advantage of that?

    And why are you keeping a bad tenant that is 20% below market? If the rent should be $1,000 but you are only charging $800, that means you are gifting this tenant $200 a month or $2,400 a year. Why? Are you unable to find a charity with real needs? You are treating this woman honestly, fairly, in generously, just so she can turn around and slap you in the face.

    Learn to run the property like a business. You need to get rid of this tenant immediately or she will continue to cause problems and cost you money. I would give her 30 days notice right after she pays January rent. Get rid of her, clean the place up, and rent it at market rate to a tenant that will appreciate a quality home and an honest, fair Landlord.

    If you keep her and she continues to cause problems, you have no right to complain.

    I would also consider adding a clause to your lease that says lieutenant will be charged a trip charge anytime they make an unwarranted maintenance call. Standard rate would be around $50 - $75, depending on the amount of time and gas it requires from you.

    this reminds me of the call I got a few years ago from one of my PM's  its a very cold winter in Indiana.. tenant calls and just had a baby cant afford heat and rent.. can they just have a rent moratorium for 3 months then pay the balance pro rata for the rest of the lease..

    Of course i agree right.. well 3 months are up and they moved out  LOL.. 

  • Rental Property Investor · Saint Louis, MO · Member since 2018 · 228 posts · 279 votes
    5y

    @Karen F., I'm sorry to hear this.

    For me, these kinds of things were more emotional when I had fewer units.  Once I got a decent sized portfolio, they became less emotional.

    I don't provide essentials like you did for your tenant.  If they tell me some similar story, I say - "I am so sorry to hear that.  Have you called United Way to see what assistance they may be able to provide?"

    I don't do this to be mean but I find in general that some people will take, take, take so as long as I draw boundaries, stick to my lease and treat everyone the same, I have a lot fewer problems and less emotional brain damage.

  • Property Manager · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2016 · 35 posts · 23 votes
    5y

    I know we tend to build relationships with our clients - some work, most don't.  Hopefully this has allowed you to reestablish the line of demarcation for yourself and your business. Sure, we could jump on either side here with opinions - you for being too nice or her for acting too entitled. Just take the proverbial L and slap on the wrist. Don't do it again.... lol

  • Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2015 · 435 posts · 421 votes
    5y

    Yeah, I kind of figured that the good relationship with our tenants was why (until just this month) we had NO ONE who was behind on rent during the pandemic.  We haven't raised rents in probably two years, and we were limping along with a couple of inherited tenants who were either way below market, or slow payers, or both.  In my area, in non-pandemic times, it was a three month process to evict for non-payment of rent, and at least twice that long for "staying over".  End result is no one is getting evicted before the moratoriums are lifted, which I suspect will not be until late spring, at the earliest.  I feel really bad for the landlords who have tenants who haven't paid a penny since the pandemic began, or even earlier.

  • Realtor · Falls Church, VA · Member since 2019 · 23 posts · 16 votes
    5y

    @Karen F. Thanks for sharing!

  • Real Estate Agent · Nampa, ID · Member since 2017 · 439 posts · 361 votes
    5y

    I would just post a non-renewal notice to vacate.  The eviction moratorium is only for people who can't pay rent due to covid.  That doesn't mean you can't give notice to vacate. 

  • Member since 2020 · 17 posts · 4 votes
    5y

    So I read through the replies, but no one seemed to raise this question:

    You said the tenant was month-to-month, correct?
    "She's on a month to month lease. I swear, the minute the eviction moratorium is over, I plan to raise her rent by 20% (it would still be arguably within market rates in that town), and the second she is late, file eviction on her."

    So why would you need to wait until the eviction moratorium is over?  Her month-to-month lease expires at 23:59 on the last day of the month.  Just notify her that she will need to move at the end of the month (though I'd probably be more forgiving and try to give the tenant closer to 6 weeks notice).  If she balks, tell her she doesn't have a lease currently and if she wants to continue staying there, the new lease lists the rent at (whatever you are planning to raise it to.) 

    My understanding is that the moratoriums just prevent you from terminating a lease early.  She doesn't have one, so you are not terminating anything.  

    I had a similar issue, I had a tenant who figured because of the moratoriums she didn't have to pay rent.  However, she failed to account for the fact she had never signed a new lease and was month-to-month.  We (the PM with my permission) sent a 30 day pay or quit notice and within a couple of weeks she was paying on time. 

    I know this site is kind of down on PMs, but to me they've been a godsend.  I don't have to learn to screen tenants, more importantly, sob stories don't work on me if I never hear them in the first place!  Sure, I lose some cash and that sucks, but it's a side business not my main source of income, so I can afford it.  Something to look into - no more hubby running out at 3am to relight a pilot light on a furnace, for instance. ;)  

  • Rental Property Investor · Troy · Member since 2017 · 175 posts · 271 votes
    5y

    I think I have you all beat. One tenant called and complained her water wasn't working. I called the utility and found out there was a watermain brake because a sinkhole formed. That whole section of the city didn't have water. I told her that no one in that area had water. She complained saying can't I do something about it? She really needed to shower. I was like I'm sorry I am not that powerful.

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