do you repair ungrounded electric outlets?

Question

I invest in the mid-west (Indiana) but dont live in the region. Nearly every home I purchase or look at (SFHs in C class areas) have ungrounded outlets. So far we been paying to run a ground wire on the units but now I'm thinking is this really necessary? Im not trying to do a total rehab on my properties just make them C-class rental ready. Apparently whoever has been living in these properties over the years have been dealing with it just fine.

Thanks

John Teachout · Answer

Many of these two prong outlets also have old wire (cloth insulation, etc). It's not required by code to have three prong outlets but what I do find often is where people have installed a 3 prong outlet with no ground wire. This is definitely a code violation. A two conductor wire can be attached to a 3 prong GFCI and that does meet code but it's still ungrounded, just safer. The outlets protected by a GFCI should be labeled with a "no equipment ground" label. (all those assorted labels come with the GFCI device)

I usually replace the actual wire if it's readily accessible to create grounded circuits.

Nathan Gesner · Answer

I would consider this a "renovation" not a "repair" because the outlets work as designed. I try to upgrade outlets around bathrooms and kitchens for additional protection around water sources. Otherwise, you can leave things as they are.

Marc Rice · Answer

@Nathan Williams

Some people just install GFCI outlets there instead, other pay to have them grounded at the outlet, some replace the electric completely.

Maurice D. · Answer

to those installing GFCI at each outlet:  you can (depending on your panel) install a GFCI BREAKER for the entire branch.  (all bedroom outlet circuits for example), and it meets code.  a sticker needs to go on each outlet stating it is GFCI protected.  a GFCI breaker will run 60.00-70.00, cheaper than installing 20 GFCI outlets.

For new construction/rewire, you can even save more by having one circuit run the outlets of two bathrooms, all covered by one GCFI breaker. etc.

If it's an old house that was wired without ground and has 2 prong outlets, the city should grandfather that, and not mandate it to be changed, with a change in ownership?  if you are pulling permits for electric modification, perhaps yes.

Jim K. · Answer

There are four wise considerations here:1. What is safe.

2. What is dangerous.

3. What is legal

4. What is pretty.

A. If you run a grounding wire from a screw in the box holding an ungrounded 2-prong outlet to clamp on a copper water supply pipe and the water supply is copper ALL THE WAY BACK TO its entry point into the house, the outlet is grounded. This is no longer strictly legal throughout the country because if, suddenly, any part of the water supply piping is changed to plastic piping, the outlet becomes ungrounded. If the wire snaps, the outlet is ungrounded. However, if you're the self-managing owner and landlord of a property, you control if any part of the water supply piping is changed, and you can periodically test your outlets when you change your batteries in the smoke/CO detectors every year. The wisest course of action if you choose to ground the electrical box like this is to replace the outlet with a new 2-prong outlet (you can still get them through specialty supply and Amazon if they're not sold in local big-box stores), then use a 3-prong adapter in the outlet with a tab that goes into the central screw (the tab in this case grounds the outlet). This is safe. Not strictly legal. Not pretty at all. I would not recommend this course of action to anyone but a handyman investor running a closely-held portfolio.

B. You can replace the 2-prong ungrounded outlet with a 3-prong GFCI clearly marked "No Equipment Ground," exactly as @John Teachout mentioned. This theoretically eliminates the danger, but GFCI outlets have a known tendency to malfunction more frequently than regular outlets. So this is sort of safe. This is legal. This is pretty. I also try to at least run a grounding wire to a copper water supply pipe when I have to install an ungrounded GFCI in a bathroom renovation and I can verify that the copper runs all the way to the ground (an outlet tester will help do this for you). I'm a low-trust kind of guy who loves cheap, one-time fire and safety insurance investments in work and materials costs.

C. Always ground the panel of every property you own that you even suspect might not be grounded. Run two copper wires out the nearest window and pound in two six-foot grounding rods. There are multiple YouTube videos showing you how to do this. If one of the wires is ever clipped, the panel is still grounded. This is safe, legal, and pretty.

D. Typical GFCI zoning requirements usually require GFCI outlets for all bathroom outlets, all counter-height kitchen outlets, all external outlets, all basement outlets. Especially when it comes to basement outlets, don't go for the cheaper indoor-only or "slim" versions of GFCI outlets. You want the big blocky indoor/outdoor rated GFCI outlets because they're typically better sealed against humidity. You may have to replace undersized external outlet housings. Again, one-time investment, insurance over the long-haul. Safe, legal, often unpretty.

E. Watch out for electricians. In Allegheny County where I live, only one municipality, the actual City of Pittsburgh, insists that electricians working in the city maintain an electrician's license to work in the city. The license has formal training requirements and takes a lot of money to keep current. Throughout the rest of Allegheny County, anybody who is registered as a home improvement contractor can do electrical work. I used to be registered as a Pennsylvania HIC. It cost $50/year and I had to pony up for a million-dollar insurance policy. But outside the City of Pittsburgh, I had the right to paint "MASTER ELECTRICIAN" on the side of a van, print up business cards, and work on anything I damned well pleased. My electrician is Pittsburgh-licensed. Make sure you know the laws and requirements in your area and hire qualified people.There's nothing wrong in exceeding local requirements. This is how prudent DIY types put much of the savings they make doing much of their own work to use, paying more for top-shelf help and overbuilding where they feel it's wise.

John Teachout · Answer

@Jim K., I agree that someone wearing a hardhat and carrying a clipboard and a flashlight can go around in many places without question. I actually do that sometimes. I meant a guy I know does that sometimes.

Jim K. · Answer

@Alecia Loveless

As a self-managing handyman with a small portfolio, I don't hard-wire smoke and CO detectors if I don't have to in a rental property, and not because of the cost.

I use changing batteries during daylight savings time as an easy excuse for coming in and running two visual inspections of my portfolio. I buy 5-year-guaranteed-storage 9-volt batteries from Amazon for smoke detectors and AA batteries from the same source for CO detectors. It works out well. I've also installed extra $5 smoke detectors above and beyond minimal requirements as an excuse to regularly get into different parts of the house twice a year.

You come in with a clipboard and a stepstool and "Sorry, I have to change the batteries, can't be helped, safety first, yadda yadda yadda." and it's so much less intrusive than "I want to inspect what you're doing to my property twice a year." If you work this conscientiously, you can usually also get in at irregular times when you suspect something because "Oh, sorry, last time I forgot to check the fire extinguishers in the kitchen and basement. Let me just go look...I need to have that for my inspection form, sorry...my insurance, you know..." Nobody questions a man with a clipboard in America.

Changing out furnace filters yourself is another great excuse to get into a property, but not as useful.

Dan Thomas · Answer

@Nathan Williams

One option to add to Jim's response is you can also add gfci breakers in the panel but than you loose the capability of accepting 3 prong plugs.  I literally just had an electrician pull all the wiring out of an str cabin and replace last week. It is one story and has a decent crawl space so all in it was like 1500 bucks and I personally would prefer that to one of my guests getting shocked.

Joe Splitrock · Answer

I personally think that running grounds to outlets is a good idea. Ungrounded outlets are a shock hazard and can lead to equipment damage. There is a very good reason that code requires ground. So although, "whoever has been living in these properties over the years have been dealing with it just fine" that doesn't mean it is safe or the best choice. It just means whomever lived there chose not to address the problem. That could be due to cost or ignorance. Same could be said for smoke detectors or any other things that were not common 75 or 100 years ago, but are important today.

Scott M. · Answer

Common in the midwest on older homes.  A lot of cities require you to ground the main box and that isn't a huge deal.  For those cities that require it, we do.  For those that don't the owner (if not us) chooses.

do you repair ungrounded electric outlets?

Most Popular Reply