First time STR, where is everyone investing in next??

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Realtor · Branson, MO · Member since 2018 · 274 posts · 283 votes
5y

There should also be a "Worst places to purchase a vacation rental investment" thread. Even purely for entertainment purposes. I'm sure some will find this educational, but i'm writing this post because it's a bit cathartic and fun! I consulted thousands of people looking all over the US for: where should I buy a vacation rental? There were definitely cases of people trying to put a round peg in a square hole. I'm sure there are creative real estate investors on BP could find some individual one-off cases to prove me wrong, but for the most part these are not recommended spots to get into the STR investment space. Especially if someone isn't really familiar with the market and are newish to Short term rentals. The key word is investment because there are a few markets where you can own an oceanfront property, or a ski property that makes a ton of money as a vacation rental... but not a good return on investment. Anyways, here we go....

There's obviously places that are in the middle of nowhere and no tourism flow to speak of (North Dakota comes to mind, no offense to any highly successful vacation rental investor there *crickets*) so those are not great places to start a vacation rental if there is not something nearby for people to go visit. Pretty much a logical "Duh" statement right there so there could be a few one off people that say "Hey my Podunk town has a refinery so I get tons of business" or "We have a great college football team so we're going to crush it on game days."  But for the most part, if the town has less than a hundred people and you pop on Airbnb or Vrbo and you see less than 2 or 3 vacation rentals in a 10 mile radius, it really begs the question "Why would someone go here?" The answer is "There isn't a reason... ."

I'm all for people trying new things, but Bigger Pockets isn't the place to test new creative ideas. The closest we're starting to see in 2021 is a migration of deals to periphery markets that are near highly successful vacation rental hotspots. With the price appreciation in the major areas, there is something to be said about nearby spots where property values haven't skyrocketed as high. 

I'm going to start trashing some of the WORST places to get a vacation rental based upon my time working with vacation rental buyers all across the country. These are not in any particular order and these opinions are purely my own so don't get too butthurt if you want to argue.  

1. Big Cities - LA/Chicago/NYC - great places to visit, Amazing food & entertainment, BUT regulations are murderous for Airbnb and vacation rentals. People can justify ADU's and renting out bedrooms, but for traditional standalone vacation property after factoring in the already high cost to purchase and the incredibly difficult regulations.... just go somewhere else. I didn't even bring up Covid and travel lockdowns but just add that on top of the trash bin.

2. Las Vegas - Read: Casino lobby doesn't like the vacation rental business eating into their market share. Heavily regulated and super challenging to get started there. I probably worked with 100 people that tried to buy something there. I didn't have one successful person that went through all the hoops. I feel like I might get whacked even just talking about Vegas. For STR investors? Avoid.

3. California - Taxes, Regulations, Property values. With 40 million people and tenant friendly anti-landlord legislation it's already not looking good. San Diego is probably one of the better big cities there to do it. The Coachella Valley (La Quinta, Palm Springs, Palm Desert, Etc.) is pretty seasonal and regulations are starting to get ugly. Big Bear/Lake Arrowhead: Saturated. Coastal cities, mostly regulated. San Fran: 30 day min restrictions. Tahoe: regulated, pricey. If someone held a gun to my head and forced me to invest in a short term rental in California, I'd pick something along the edges of Yosemite like in Arnold, CA but then you run into issues with local cleaner options. After visiting San Francisco a few years back for a real estate investor conference, I definitely came away thinking that the traditional vacation rental property was something that not many people got or wanted to get into when I was there and based upon the state's natural barriers to entry it makes sense. 

4. Breckenridge/Vail/Aspen/Park City/Tahoe/Insert other major ski area - Ski areas are highly seasonal. When there is snow, people go. No snow? No go. That's making it a case where you have a vacation rental that is needing to pay you money where it's getting rented for 3-4 months solid in peak season... then 2-3 months in the summer.... and then... not at all. Combine that with the fact that they also tend to be very expensive. Those two factors combined make most ski property "Non investment grade". There are some one-off places where buying near a ski area where you can find a deal could work but epicenter of these major ski areas is a recipe for offsetting some costs and not generating major ROI.

5. Residential Property on Hawaii - Hawaii is some of the best occupancy month over month vacation rental real estate out there. 300+days booked a year on average is doable! Just don't buy a house in a non-resort zoned area on big island. Locals will despise you and the fines there are obscene for running an illegal vacation rental. Quoting from Honolulu Council: Oahu property owners who illegally use their units as short-term vacation rentals could face fines of up to $10,000 a day under a bill passed unanimously by the Honolulu City Council... PER DAY?! Yeah that's right. 

6. Northeast USA Beach Property - Anything basically north of Virginia along the coast is seasonal. VERY seasonal. Cape Cod, Hamptons, Jersey Shore.  The rental season in this part of the country is a few months during summer each year. I've had the pleasure of speaking to people that knew of a "Friend that rents his vacation home for $10,000 a week!" That's phenomenal! How much did he/she pay for his place? <insert 7 figure answer> Oh. So after expenses they're making how much? OK. yeah, that's not that great. Bottom line, if you have 3-4 months to make a years worth of money to offset your offseason of 8-9 months - good luck have fun!

7. Portland - Regulations. Airbnb has a page on how to get yourself legal and it involves the words, permit, license, rules, registration. But I just remember when our company I worked for had to kick out almost every property we worked with because of the new law that was passed and it basically became a no-go zone. Again, I'm sure someone has a workaround but for most folks that are looking for a place they can buy, furnish and set up as a nightly rental, you're going to have to climb a mountain to get the property legal to do what you want to do. 

8. South Padre - Hurricane insurance, not many people are visiting here anymore. Spring breakers are drunken wild children that have a penchant to destroy things while inebriated. These properties don't make much money so all hassle and no reward.

9. Florida Keys - Once again, the regulators have made this idea a bust. There are a few spots where you can get something that's zoned or a property might be already operating as a vacation rental, but the likelihood of getting it grandfathered in is very very challenging. (Too bad, my first time visiting a Vrbo was in Key Largo but the regulations are a deal killer)

10. Kissimmee/Davenport - I'm really going to stir up some annoyed property managers, realtors, investors and the like with this pick. But I have to say it because it's a true warning for anyone looking to make serious money with a vacation rental investment. What can't be argued with is that this market is the most saturated vacation rental market in the entire country. Possibly the entire world. Sure there's international interest for this area for tourism and I've seen some highly successful properties here that I'd even consider buying. However, this is a perfect case of where everyone has the same idea and there are thousands upon thousands of competitors all vying for the same tourist business. You can be successful but it's a hyper-competitive landscape. To get something that works you have to get a house decked out with game rooms, themes, private pool and a bunch of bedrooms.  I distinctly recall a buyer that I worked with that purchased a vacation rental approved 3BR townhouse and it didn't get any bookings for the first 3-4 months. The #'s just aren't there when you add on top of that you have to cut your rates to compete with the numerous options in the market area. This is a massive market for vacation rental owners but the saturation hurdle is a tough nut to crack. 

With that being said, govern yourself accordingly and good luck with wherever you do end up deciding to purchase a nightly rental. 

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  • John UnderwoodPro Member
    Investor · Greer, SC · Member since 2014 · 13k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    5y

    That comes down to personal preference as there are many great locations to invest in.

    What are your goals what do you like to do?

    There are beaches, Mountains, Lakes, Vegas, Orlando and Branson. These are all top locations.

  • Luke CarlPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Tennessee Florida · Member since 2016 · 4k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    5y

    Places with no residents and lots of tourists 

  • Realtor · Gilbert, AZ · Member since 2021 · 42 posts · 18 votes
    5y

    @John Underwood

    Good question! if this were our second vacation home, I would likely look at the Carolinas, near water. I like historical cities, near water. But we are primarily looking at cash flow, and can use said cash to vacation where we want lol. IDK- should we be looking longer term, meaning this STR home will be part of the family for years?

    As far as goals, we are looking for cash flow to eventually replace W2 jobs. We have a LTR (adding more) for equity. 

  • Realtor · Gilbert, AZ · Member since 2021 · 42 posts · 18 votes
    5y

    @Luke Carl

    Suggestions on locations? Thx!

  • John UnderwoodPro Member
    Investor · Greer, SC · Member since 2014 · 13k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Daniella Lamis:

    @John Underwood

    Good question! if this were our second vacation home, I would likely look at the Carolinas, near water. I like historical cities, near water. But we are primarily looking at cash flow, and can use said cash to vacation where we want lol. IDK- should we be looking longer term, meaning this STR home will be part of the family for years?

    As far as goals, we are looking for cash flow to eventually replace W2 jobs. We have a LTR (adding more) for equity. 

    St. Agustine sounds like it would check all the boxes for you. They have a strong STR market.

  • Rental Property Investor · Attleboro, MA · Member since 2021 · 81 posts · 56 votes
    5y

    @Daniella Lamis currently under contract to purchase my first STR in the smokies.

  • Rental Property Investor · Charleston, SC · Member since 2021 · 24 posts · 59 votes
    5y

    New Construction in Cape Coral offered by RentToRetirement offers an opportunity for solid cash flow, appreciation, and built in equity! Still so much to build there, long term hold would be good here, in my opinion. Right now they are saying it is looking like a 10 month process, but worth a look! 

    I plan on implementing the BRRRR strategy with SFR out of state in Indianapolis this winter! Focusing on cash flow, which you can find a lot of cash flow rental opportunities. Hope this helps!

  • Zach LemasterBusiness Member
    Rental Property Investor · Denver, CO · Member since 2015 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    5y

    @Miles Viant

    Thanks for the mention! SW FL is an excellent market right now to invest where you can get into a brand new build that is in a great location with high rental demand/resale value causing high appreciation, immediate equity and that still cash flows! I agree with you there is a long runway there of potential with 1,000+ people moving there per day. Most new builds rent or have a retail buyer lined up (mostly all cash buyers) before the build is even completed! A $275k 4/2 retails in the $320k to $340k range allowing investors to keep their equity in the deal to cash flow well. Other options would be to sell to a retail buyer in year one for a large gain, or cash out refi to pull equity out to reinvest in more rentals. This last strategy is a creative way to be into a brand new build w/ comprehensive warranties & cash flows while receiving the majority of your capital back out of the deal. This is a little different take on the BRRR model (build, rent, refinance, redo.....then another R of ultimately retire)! We personally & as a business invest all over the country. The SW FL market is by far the best opportunity I've seen in many years for multiple reasons!

  • Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 31k+ posts · 20k+ votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Daniella Lamis:

    We have 20% down for 2 STRs and will self manage from Arizona. Where are you investing next? 

    We're jumping into SRT's in Northeast Ohio pretty heavily right now.

  • Shiloh LundahlPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Gilbert, AZ · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    5y

    @Daniella Lamis We just bought 2 cabins in Lakeside, Arizona. One we are going to finish fixing up for a STR and the other one we decided to rent out for a year so we could see how the first one does. We are also in the beginning stages of building a tiny house village in Florence, Arizona with 29 units, 5 of which will will use as STRs.

    I think it has to do with the experience that you can provide that people are looking for.

  • Shiloh LundahlPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Gilbert, AZ · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    5y

    @Daniella Lamis I am also considering renting out my pool that we just finished on Swimply on the weekends.

  • Shawn McCormickPro Member
    Realtor · Central Florida-Orlando · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 892 votes
    5y

    @Daniella Lamis I'm partial to Orlando for many obvious reasons (year round great climate, huge area growth, #1 vacation destination worldwide, theme parks, close to beaches, awesome airport/transporation, close to several cruise ports etc...) there are variable that you will need to understand to make the most of your cash flow, but we've got it all. 

  • Real Estate Syndicator · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2018 · 903 posts · 1k+ votes
    5y

    Where people vacation of course! Sunny year round and tourist hot spots. Florida are Arizona are two good ones. Hawaii would be another, if you figure out the details and abide by regulations.

  • Residential Real Estate Broker · Sedona, AZ · Member since 2017 · 754 posts · 504 votes
    5y
    Daniella, Arizona has quite a few hot short term rental market areas, and the state is very pro-landlord. Have you already diversified the state pretty well, by getting into several different AZ markets?
  • Realtor · Gilbert, AZ · Member since 2021 · 42 posts · 18 votes
    5y

    @Shiloh Lundahl

    Interesting concept- the tiny houses in Florence! and yes, I thought about Lakeside as well! 

  • Realtor · Gilbert, AZ · Member since 2021 · 42 posts · 18 votes
    5y

    @Chris Levarek Thank you! You'd think we'd jump into AZ being residents, but its been more "fun" exploring options elsewhere. I will dive into N Arizona options for sure

  • Realtor · Gilbert, AZ · Member since 2021 · 42 posts · 18 votes
    5y

    @Chad McMahan Admittedly, we have not given enough thought to Arizona markets. Not that I don't see the value but as a native to AZ, its been more fun looking at new areas. But I will look into Sedona and Munds for sure!

  • Real Estate Syndicator · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2018 · 903 posts · 1k+ votes
    5y

    @Daniella Lamis We've been offering on properties in Sedona since January. Highly competitive and significantly overpriced for our margins. After being beat out by 50-100k over asking consistently, we turned to Florida and had a 7br property under contract in two weeks in much better condition at lower prices. 

    If however, you can buy in at 1.2-2 million, Sedona is a great option for 7br +. Great metrics. It is the 600k to 1 million that is the normal on 3-4 br homes which will make STR no longer as attractive.

    Being a Sedona native, the city has changed drastically since my high school days. The market is saturated as well with STR and the sellers know it. Expect appraisal waiver contingency's to be waived and all cash offers the norm with quick closes stressed. If you can get one though, the numbers are quite interesting for large bedroom count.

  • Real Estate Agent · Houston, TX · Member since 2019 · 763 posts · 500 votes
    5y

    @Daniella Lamis big fan of Galveston which thrived through COVID … but I may be a little bias haha

  • Residential Real Estate Broker · Sedona, AZ · Member since 2017 · 754 posts · 504 votes
    5y

    Yep, Chris, Sedona can be a tough market to get into, for sure. Especially for STR's- our high market appreciation reflects that.

    I'm sorry to hear about the challenge for you and your group (cracking the nut and getting into the market). It's frustrating and I see this happening a LOT. It may just be bad luck with your offers. I'm also seeing something else, quite it may be something I'm seeing quite often.

    Many realtors are so busy and overwhelmed, and not willing to go the extra mile (Truly figuring out what the sellers want, aside from just more money), in a hot market like this, to increase the odds of getting an accepted offer.

    60% of the time, sellers want something beyond money that does not get nurtured, or even asked about. If I can help, even just to answer some questions, please let me know.

  • Investor · San Francisco, CA · Member since 2020 · 31 posts · 22 votes
    5y

    I think Florida it's a great place for STR. Any of the beach towns have attractions. Then you have Orlando and Tampa with theme parks for families and children. Key West is another sweet vacation spot. Don't forget about Miami.

  • Bruce WoodruffPro Member
    Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
    5y

    @Daniella Lamis What happened to your concept of the student STR up in Flag? That was a solid idea. Or just skip the student part and go full-on STR up there. The GC, skiing in the winter, cool little town, tons of tourists...

    It seems like you're skipping all over the place here when the best answers are right in your own backyard.....?

    Unless you're looking to buy vacations for yourself? Why not go for the $$ and then, like you said, you can afford to vacation wherever you want.......

  • Ryan MoyerBusiness Member
    Property Manager · Orlando Kissimmee Davenport Salt Lake City, Park City · Member since 2019 · 996 posts · 1k+ votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Chris Levarek:

    @Daniella Lamis We've been offering on properties in Sedona since January. Highly competitive and significantly overpriced for our margins. After being beat out by 50-100k over asking consistently, we turned to Florida and had a 7br property under contract in two weeks in much better condition at lower prices. 

    If however, you can buy in at 1.2-2 million, Sedona is a great option for 7br +. Great metrics. It is the 600k to 1 million that is the normal on 3-4 br homes which will make STR no longer as attractive.

    Being a Sedona native, the city has changed drastically since my high school days. The market is saturated as well with STR and the sellers know it. Expect appraisal waiver contingency's to be waived and all cash offers the norm with quick closes stressed. If you can get one though, the numbers are quite interesting for large bedroom count.

    What kind of gross would a 7br in Sedona do?

    Cosmic Vacations4.9174 Reviews
  • Realtor · Gilbert, AZ · Member since 2021 · 42 posts · 18 votes
    5y

    @Bruce Woodruff lol- I AM all over the place! We have enough DP funds for 2 STRs and I am likely slipping down the rabbit hole in my research trying to narrow it down and diversify out of the gate. Not analysis paralysis but enjoying the process/adventure too much. 

    Flagstaff is still on my radar - likely as a STR fully (not sure I am ready to be a room by room landlord for students).

    and no, not really wanting vacation spots for ourselves- we will likely visit 1x/year so the investment and cash flow are more important to us. 

  • Bruce WoodruffPro Member
    Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Daniella Lamis:

    @Bruce Woodruff lol- I AM all over the place! We have enough DP funds for 2 STRs and I am likely slipping down the rabbit hole in my research trying to narrow it down and diversify out of the gate. Not analysis paralysis but enjoying the process/adventure too much. 

    Flagstaff is still on my radar - likely as a STR fully (not sure I am ready to be a room by room landlord for students).

    and no, not really wanting vacation spots for ourselves- we will likely visit 1x/year so the investment and cash flow are more important to us. 

    Well there ya go then....you just made an important discovery/decision! Definitely go and enjoy all these wonderful places around the country, but why not keep it simple and invest in your own area? A super landlord/STR friendly state with multiple areas that are diversely different, from desert to mountains to lakes to rivers.....tons of touristy areas with low population centers, perfect for STRs. And you're close enough to keep an eye on things.....

    IMO, Sedona is priced out of the basic STR market but there are many other options in the same area :-)

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